Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
[00:00:06] Speaker B: Welcome.
Wow, this is a good one. This is an unusual. Some of my favorite episodes are not with choreographers or dancers. Today we're getting a special, special chat with my dear friends TJ and Aaron, co founders of Offset Med, and they are here to talk about health, wellness, performance training, occupational therapy in general, health and wellness, and in specific, some really, really smart, I'll call them, life hacks that you should be doing and thinking about doing every day.
So I'm very excited to share this conversation. But first, let's do some wins. Today I'm celebrating making it to the recording of this podcast.
I woke up so long ago. I woke up many hours ago. What hour is it now?
5:30, based on Riz eating at the time at the moment. So Riz is eating, which means it's 5:30. That means I woke up 15 hours ago to make my flight to get here. And we tried to land three times at Burbank and had to pull up because it's rainy today. And Captain came on. I almost said the radio. Captain came on the radio.
He was singing my favorite song. He was singing, put your hands up.
Sorry. You know what I was doing? I was doing the Miley Cyrus.
[00:01:24] Speaker A: Oh, God.
[00:01:26] Speaker B: He came on the intercom and said, hey, we couldn't see the Runway, so we had to. We had to bail out three times. We were about to try to land in Ontario and I hit my flight attendant call button and I was like, sorry, I have to record a podcast with Offset Med today. That's can't happen.
That didn't happen. I'm raised by a flight attendant. I know better. But I was like, oh, I really did feel like my agenda's important. We have to land at Burbank. They pulled it off. Third time's a charm. Landed safely.
Hopefully everyone made it to where they were going. I made it into this chair, actually onto that couch so that TJ could sit here and Eric could sit there. That is my win.
[00:02:12] Speaker A: That is.
[00:02:12] Speaker B: That's what's going well in my world. Now you go, l. Tell me a win out loud. Go tell me a win out loud.
[00:02:20] Speaker A: This weekend was the first time I ever got a call back when I was in la.
[00:02:26] Speaker B: Yo, my roommate got a call back in la.
See, it is different when I hear you winning. I get jacked. So please tell me your wins.
[00:02:36] Speaker A: All the time.
[00:02:37] Speaker C: I need to know it.
[00:02:38] Speaker B: And you need to know them too.
I'm glad you're winning. Stoked for you. So excited. Before we get into this conversation, I want to tell you that one of my guests, TJ is very humble and. And didn't say out loud, but I will scream it from the mountaintops that he's a member of the Illabilities crew, and they're going to be performing the first two weekends of March at the New Victory Theater on Broadway. Please go see TJ and the rest of his crew members. Absolutely crush it. I can't believe I can't be there. I'm bummed I can't be there. But if you can. Holy shit. Listener, viewer, please be at the New Victory Theater first two weekends of March to watch TJ and the rest of Ill Abilities.
And once you've bought your tickets for that, then you can click resume on this episode and enjoy the one, the two, the only.
Offset Med.
The one, the only Offset, the two.
I'm doing a pelvic tilt. I'm doing a pelvic tilt. Offset med. TJ Aaron. I just did it backwards.
TJ Aaron. I'm off to a good start. Welcome to Words that Move Me, my friends. I'm so glad you're here. This is long overdue.
You've listened to the podcast before. I know you've done your homework, so you know how it starts. I'll ask you both to introduce yourself. Tell the good listener viewer what you want us to know about you.
[00:04:20] Speaker C: Oh, my goodness, Teej.
[00:04:23] Speaker A: Either way. You. Either way.
[00:04:24] Speaker C: All right. Well, hello, everyone. My name is Arinor.
I'm a certified athletic trainer and strength conditioning specialist.
[00:04:32] Speaker A: I know it's hard.
[00:04:33] Speaker B: Podcasts are hard.
[00:04:33] Speaker C: Podcasts are hard strength and conditioning specialists here in Los Angeles, California. I've worked with a couple different organizations. Offset Med being one that I co founded with TJ and a few other friends currently working in Los Angeles under the UACTP facility in downtown.
What else have you done?
[00:04:52] Speaker B: What does UACTP stand for?
[00:04:55] Speaker C: Oh, this is the. This is the question.
[00:04:56] Speaker B: I'll give you a hint. Undefeated Athletic Club Training Party.
Training program. Program
[00:05:09] Speaker A: would be more fun.
[00:05:11] Speaker B: What is it?
[00:05:12] Speaker C: So actually, as of what, like, I think a year and a half ago, they were like, this is a crazy acronym. We want to just be Undefeated Athletic Club. And so you got that.
[00:05:21] Speaker B: Oh, okay.
[00:05:22] Speaker C: The original was Undefeated Action Capabilities Training Program. It was, like, rooted in these complexity.
Very much so, yeah, yeah, it's got. It's got, like, history and, like, Special Forces and, like, training. So, like, people would bring their, like, firearms and stow them in and come and do their jiu jitsu, martial arts training and then get their lifts in and do all that stuff. So the, the space itself was kind of designed for that, but now it's much more friendlier.
[00:05:51] Speaker B: I noticed when I went it was the kind of space that I would like to spend hours. It was beautiful. Is beautiful. Very cool space.
[00:05:59] Speaker C: Yeah. And that's all to the owner, jb. You know, he saw the space, found it and was like, I think I can make this beautiful and blend street wear with fitness and martial arts. But that's where I'm at now. And done a couple fun things in my career from being head athletic trainer for breaking for gold team Team USA for Paris Olympics.
Also working as a strength conditioning contractor with US Tennis association and a contractor for again, like US Indoor volleyball. Beach volleyball. So I'm like in that world now and pass it on to my good friend Teach.
[00:06:45] Speaker B: That was beautifully done. For someone who was nervous about doing that, that was really well done.
[00:06:49] Speaker C: Good job.
[00:06:49] Speaker B: Good job.
The bar is set really high.
[00:06:55] Speaker A: My name is Tejing TJ Lee. TJ is just easier to go with.
My formal license is in occupational therapy.
I work with kids with special needs throughout the week and then during the off time, I work with dancers. Co founder Office of Med with Aaron.
I'm part of Quest Crew a liabilities and I do a little bit of adaptive modeling as well as being an adaptive athlete, which is all like in the space of end products which has all led into this health inclusion, access to information and kind of like how we got here as offset Med. Well, I think the biggest part was Quest Crew. Yeah, those are my brothers. Been there from the beginning. From Quest Crew to running a dance studio, running their social media, being their road manager to the healthcare person, just seeing how they just weren't taken care of in the space when they were supposed to be the top guys. I'm like, oh, is this how it is for everybody? And they're. And that's how the ball rolling.
[00:08:02] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:08:02] Speaker A: Eventually, like, oh, very hip hop, very community oriented. Like, oh, he took care of me. Like, you should check out this person. That person. That person. I was like, I'm not trying to be the guy. I just want to make sure that people are taken care of. But it's crazy that all of our friends are so amazing.
[00:08:18] Speaker B: That's true, that's true. Like attracts like, though.
[00:08:20] Speaker A: Yes, yes. And that was like the idea that spawned in my head, like, how could this grow?
And yeah, that's how I got to meet Aaron.
[00:08:29] Speaker B: Okay, how. What was the actual meet?
[00:08:31] Speaker A: Cute.
[00:08:31] Speaker B: I have to go.
[00:08:32] Speaker A: That was very interesting because we didn't even know of each other.
But there was legislation at the time to do with the athletic trainers becoming a licensed provider in California.
[00:08:49] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:08:49] Speaker A: Which is a whole mess with.
[00:08:51] Speaker B: Sounds complicated.
[00:08:52] Speaker A: I was very in my lane of occupational therapy. Go, go, go. And I was like, who are these people trying to come in our lane?
So I put out a nice little social media thing back in the day, and then Aaron's classmate messaged me, and I was like, whoa, who are you?
And then I get another message, and I'm like, whoa, whoa. Who are both of you guys? Who are you guys?
[00:09:14] Speaker B: You. So you teamed up on him with your friend, and you were like, shut it down.
[00:09:18] Speaker A: This is much nicer that he didn't team up that aggressively.
[00:09:21] Speaker C: So at. For context, I was in. I was living in Ohio at the time, and in Ohio, our licensing board is actually occupational therapy, physical therapy, and athletic training all in one medical board.
[00:09:36] Speaker B: Got it.
[00:09:37] Speaker C: And California was trying to bring athletic training licensing to the occupation, the current existing occupational therapy board. So that would exist as, like, one unit.
[00:09:49] Speaker B: Okay. And you were like, stay out. Find your own house.
[00:09:52] Speaker A: That's what I was led to believe at that time.
[00:09:55] Speaker B: Got it. You changed your tune.
[00:09:57] Speaker A: Yes, yes.
[00:09:58] Speaker B: So new information, new opinions. I understand.
[00:10:01] Speaker A: We're always learning.
[00:10:02] Speaker B: New friends.
[00:10:03] Speaker A: New friends.
[00:10:04] Speaker B: Y. Okay.
[00:10:04] Speaker C: So my classmate was like, you know, he saw TJ's post, got really riled up, and left him a nasty comment.
And this was probably, like, I looked at who TJ was, and I was like, oh, man. Like, this guy's like, cool, dude.
[00:10:22] Speaker B: Thank you for doing your homework.
[00:10:23] Speaker C: Those dads.
[00:10:24] Speaker B: Thank you for considering the person behind the words.
[00:10:27] Speaker C: Absolutely. And I was like, I don't think this is right. So, I mean, I didn't know tj, so that's why I sent that message. I was like, hey, I know that was a little, like, intense, but we should just, like, talk it out, you know, and see if we can diffuse the situation. I think TJ was ready to throw hands. This guy was in person.
[00:10:47] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:10:48] Speaker B: Very heated.
[00:10:48] Speaker A: Got heated for no reason, because we met in person.
Come to find out, Aaron's taking classes at Dance Quest Dance Studio when I was running it, and we had all this already overlap. There was already overlap with community. He was a dancer, former dancer, all the same people that we knew. And I was like, wait. As we got to talking, like, well, this both doesn't make sense. It's. Why are we doing this?
[00:11:13] Speaker B: But did your values change, though? Like, did your opinion about whether or not that branch of provider be included in your board?
[00:11:23] Speaker A: Definitely. A lot of stuff changed through Aaron and then our other co founder, Scott.
So we're multidisciplinary with OT and just figuring out that we're all here for the same purpose, that's like the biggest part.
[00:11:40] Speaker C: That's huge.
[00:11:41] Speaker B: Yes, guys, unity. Power in numbers is a real thing.
I cannot think of an example where more brains is not more power.
And it can be challenging when you have different interests or different values, but when your interests and values are the same, I'm thinking as you guys are talking, I'm hearing choreographer's guild chiming in my head. A choreographer's interests and an assistant choreographer's interests and an associate choreographer's interests and a movement coach's interests, they're all the same. And that's to make a great end result, to make a great project and to protect and make sure that the talent you're working with has what they need to do their job.
And in that way too, a choreographer's interest is also dancers interests. And so there is so much that we have in common and so many different places that we can go to find what we need. And you guys created Offset Med to be a place where people can go for all the things that they need.
[00:12:38] Speaker A: Yeah, because before that I was just kind of trying to figure out as
[00:12:41] Speaker B: we went and doing things on a case by case, like this person gets
[00:12:44] Speaker A: this from what I know.
But then I had now connected with Aaron where he did it in the athletic field and that was his profession and his major. I was like, cool. That's the stuff that I needed that I didn't know.
And we just kind of got to brainstorming and that's when you're about to finish college.
[00:13:01] Speaker C: Yeah. So I graduated from my graduate program and then TJ was like, hey, what would you think about like, you know, banding together and like just like launching this idea at like a startup style. And I was like, that sounds pretty exciting. Like I want to come back home to California. Anyways. I don't know what this is going to look like, but I felt like TJ had a really good working relationship with a lot of the dancers he worked with. And I saw that he like operated from a place of like deep care and authenticity and service.
So I was like, you know, like, well, this is it. Like we. I can bring the knowledge and skills and experience that I've learned just working in collegiate and high school and formal athletics.
Take that infrastructure of sports medicine and see if we can find a way to make it work within the current dance infrastructure.
[00:13:59] Speaker B: That was set for 4:20. It was meant to be AM, which is when I left this morning from Hershey, Pennsylvania. That's insane. Insane.
[00:14:11] Speaker A: So the time change and everything.
[00:14:13] Speaker B: I. Wow, you guys, I'm so sorry about that. So. So you did.
You were like, let's band together. Take what I know from my space, Fuse it with what you have built here and your network in this space and. Sorry, back up. You said that back to California. So this is where you're from originally. You just went to school in a while?
[00:14:29] Speaker C: I was, Yeah. I was born, raised in SoCal and then did my undergrad in Orange county at Chapman University.
[00:14:35] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:14:35] Speaker C: Got a fellowship.
[00:14:37] Speaker B: Love you guys. I love Cabman. I get to teach out there sometimes.
[00:14:39] Speaker A: Oh, that's great.
[00:14:40] Speaker C: Yeah, the dance department there is really great, solid. And I got an opportunity to get my master's paid for and get my graduate experience in training. So I moved to Ohio, worked full time, went to school full time, did that intense residency basically, and then had the conversation with TJ towards the end, and I was like, well, yeah, that's like. I feel like that's what I've been training my whole life for. Yes.
[00:15:04] Speaker B: Okay. So we've known each other a really long time. Yeah, we go way, way back. I met you through.
Through Quest Crew guys or the ML family.
[00:15:13] Speaker A: Also ML, also Dancers Alliance.
[00:15:16] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:15:17] Speaker A: When Galen was ahead.
[00:15:18] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:15:18] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:15:18] Speaker C: Yes. Wow.
[00:15:19] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:15:19] Speaker B: Back in, like, 2014, right before dancers
[00:15:25] Speaker A: were part of the SAG.
[00:15:27] Speaker B: Yeah, when we. Right before we got our Timberlake tour. Yep, yep, yep.
[00:15:31] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:15:31] Speaker B: Yes.
Yeah. We were fighting for a music video. Music video contract.
Won a music video contract. And then shortly after, JT's touring dancers were the first dancers ever to get union coverage while we were on tour.
[00:15:46] Speaker C: I'm kidding.
[00:15:47] Speaker B: But, yeah, that was a really exciting time.
[00:15:49] Speaker A: That was. A lot of things are going on.
[00:15:51] Speaker B: A lot of things are going on. And I do kind of feel like, although our current administration is very anti union, I think part of the timing and the momentum of that was because of the administration and how pro union, pro worker it was. The climate's a little bit different right now, but I feel a similar momentum. People are lit up and they care, and we're listening to each other talk. We're listening and we're being a little bit more willing with sharing what goes on on our individual islands and saying, like, oh, really? Because for me, I got the ba, ba, ba, ba, ba. Did you not get a. Like. And it's conversations like that where.
Where more brains, more better. So this is cool. We've got a lot in coming. I'm jacked by this.
Okay, so we only met recently because I tried to move this couch by myself.
[00:16:42] Speaker C: This is the couch. This is the one.
[00:16:44] Speaker B: This is the one. And I tried to lift it off the rug because I couldn't just slide it because the rug will get caught and then whatever. So I hurt my back. And through one of my dear friends and past podcast guests, Sam Osoto, he threw me to you. My question for you both, and it sounds like I already have a bit of this answer, is how much of your work is referral based?
[00:17:07] Speaker C: Wow.
[00:17:09] Speaker A: Mine has always been just take care of friends. So it's been all referral, right?
[00:17:13] Speaker B: 100%. Right?
[00:17:14] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:17:14] Speaker A: It's all for taking care of friends.
[00:17:15] Speaker C: 100%.
[00:17:16] Speaker A: That's all based. It's been most of it. It's cool that we just know a lot of people and we just.
Everyone's amazing. I think all the people that we
[00:17:25] Speaker C: work with, there's a degree of that.
[00:17:27] Speaker A: There's a degree.
[00:17:27] Speaker C: I also believe that, like, and. And this is hearing a lot of, like, when we first started, like, the business, like, you kind of get. There's just a, I guess, space in business where it's like marketing and they try and, like, throw a bunch of things that you don't know and be like, oh, if you're not doing, you need to blah, blah, blah.
[00:17:48] Speaker B: You need to blah, blah, blah.
[00:17:49] Speaker C: Right. So it puts, like, a lot of pressure on a business, for sure. Be like, well, this is what I have to do.
[00:17:55] Speaker B: That's the bar to entry. Yeah, I need a client avatar, and I need to.
[00:18:00] Speaker C: And I think if you are actually really intentional and focused on solving a real problem, you. You naturally will have, like, the answers to these questions, and you just work with what you have around you. So this, like, idea of resourcefulness is like, you know, being able to look at the problem you're solving, the landscape, you're like, oh, well, I need to solve this back pain for this dancer. And they are doing this with their life. And if I can do that for them and do a really good job, then I hope that they can refer someone.
And that ends up being like a snowball effect. So especially for our work with Offset Med, we went from, like, this concept
[00:18:39] Speaker B: in the sky to serious clients, and serious. A lot of work all the time
[00:18:44] Speaker A: tracks with the clients. Yeah, I was just. Just being there was big, big thing.
[00:18:48] Speaker B: That's another thing that Offset Med does. Okay, wait, will you just, like, can you say clearly for the Listener, viewer.
What. What does offsetmed do? What do you, what do you guys do right now?
[00:19:02] Speaker A: Right now in our current form, we'll do event, event coverage, triage. So like rehab, recovery services at events, workshops and then training. Rehab.
[00:19:16] Speaker B: That was clean. That was beautiful. That was almost as if you had taken a marketing course.
Now my question is because I know that you guys also do a fair amount of logging your research. You've learned so much. None of this is single serving. You're not seeing this person, then you forget about them and it's on to the next one.
You are keeping a good record of what you've learned and you have some stats, you have some research.
I am so curious to hear what was the most surprising piece of statistical information that you've gained since you started.
[00:19:54] Speaker A: Actually.
So we've been collecting data from the beginning, since our inception. Just an idea like, hey, let's see what's going on.
If it matches with the studies and things that was out there prior.
And then we actually presented was the pama. Right.
[00:20:12] Speaker C: It was I. Adams.
[00:20:14] Speaker A: I. Adams International Dance Association.
And we had a, we had a joint project with NYU.
[00:20:22] Speaker C: NYU Langone Harkness Dance Center.
And it was with Dr. Joshua, I can't remember his last name.
[00:20:32] Speaker A: Joshua Honrado.
[00:20:33] Speaker C: Yes, Honorado.
[00:20:36] Speaker A: He.
[00:20:36] Speaker C: We basically were able to work an agreement with them where they could take all the research that we've collected de identify it and then use the power of NYU to do all the data analysis on it and see if there are any correlations with injury patterns that you'll hear. Things that like, oh well, because you're an older dancer, it means you have like more injuries or because you are a breaker, you're always going to get like wrist and shoulder injuries which now the journal and Abstract and results are like publicly online.
Especially if you're a member of the International association of Dance Medicine AKA I. Adams is like the whole long term.
But I mean really pretty much like that alone was like a big feat.
[00:21:24] Speaker B: That, that is huge. To have a collaborative partner like that because you guys are just, you guys are just a couple guys.
You're really reasonable. I get it. But to have the resources, the power, the money of NYU behind you to do all that like work. It's work that would be somebody's full time job. It's a full department's full time job. It's incredible. So what were the findings that you were the most surprised by?
Do B boys always hurt their shoulders?
[00:21:52] Speaker C: No, that is not true.
[00:21:53] Speaker A: I think the like the biggest surprise Was a lot of. Just back. Back injuries, which was kind of correlated to what goes on in the general population and couches.
So.
[00:22:05] Speaker B: Okay, okay, back up. Sorry. Yeah, it's correlated to what?
[00:22:08] Speaker A: A lot of things that's going on in the general population. Like, back pain is like the. Like, one of the number one things that we're always trying to solve.
[00:22:15] Speaker B: And I was shocked that my first happened just now. Like, I had not had. I was shocked that I made it this far without back pain.
[00:22:21] Speaker C: I remember I read a research article. It's like, there's this term that doctors will use called nonspecific low back pain. And it's like the frequency of someone occurring that in their livelihood.
[00:22:33] Speaker B: Almost 100%.
[00:22:34] Speaker C: Yeah.
Like, you're going to have an event, especially as, like, you age and just do stuff and live.
[00:22:41] Speaker B: It's like, yeah, especially if you live active, live actively.
[00:22:45] Speaker C: But I think part of our work is trying to get specific and figure out what exactly is being irritated. Does it have a root cause or association with the dancers, lifestyle, movement patterns?
And if so, can we give them an active role and empower them to, like, make those changes so it reduces the risk?
[00:23:08] Speaker A: Or.
[00:23:09] Speaker C: Or is it one of those things where just like, hey, this was just a fluke accent. This is just part of living and being a normal, active human. Right? And just give it some time and you're gonna be okay. And I think that is, like, a lot of the work, especially we're on the front lines, like, working with the dancers, and you can't. I can't believe how many times a lot of it is just like 90% education and actual, like, 10%, like, actual clinical care.
[00:23:36] Speaker B: Wow.
Okay. So, like, what you did for me when my back was hurt, it actually was awesome. I would love to talk. Talk the good people of the Internet through how that went, because it was different right away.
My first interaction with you is different than every other first interaction with a care provider, which was usually, okay, let's get it scheduled. See you at the appointment. But yours was like, let's jump on the phone. I want to talk about.
[00:24:01] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:24:01] Speaker B: And you asked me, what had you done the few days before the incident of the moving of the couch?
What did you do the few days after?
How were you sleeping?
What were you eating?
And I was like, oh, my God. Now that you say it out loud, I actually.
I was not sleeping very good. I had traveled for three days. I did drink the night before with friends. I was da ba ba ba ba and uncovered.
Because I just thought it Was the couch. It was the couch plus the this, plus this, plus this. And then when I finally saw you in person, the process felt more like what I experience in a workshop lab with choreographers, which is like we're trying to solve a problem. The problem is the words on the page say this, and we need to fill in the blanks of this versus a lot of the time when I see a provider, they're okay, well this is the problem. So that. Can you touch it? Okay, well, the problem is the buh, buh, buh versus finding. Like, it felt like a creative process for you. Yeah, it was very collaborative. It felt like you never led me in the answer to a question.
You were like, okay, do a hip bridge. And I was like, ow.
And you were like, when?
[00:25:12] Speaker C: Ow.
[00:25:13] Speaker B: And I was like, here. And you were like, where? Ow. And then we do another thing and then we do a stretch and then we do an exercise and then we try again and progress and then a little more progress and then another thing. And it did feel. So is that, I guess, for you, is that a typical process or am I special and unique and got special treatment?
[00:25:34] Speaker C: I'm take. I'm take tjsu. I mean, yes, it is a special and unique case because I am clearing so many things to understand where you currently are in your both your like, physical body sense, but like your mental understanding of movement and how it connects with your body.
Everyone comes at a different place with their injury. Like, for example, like, you and TJ could have an ankle sprain, a textbook ankle sprain, but how TJ's body will respond to the injury and to the treatment and how your body would respond to the injury and the treatment are very different because of all these other factors of just being who you are, how you live, and the past and the history that you carry.
And I think in the best case scenario, we went through what you experienced, which is an activity based style of care that puts a lot of ownership and is also a discovery process for both me and you. Because I'm always trying to prove myself wrong. My body is being like, well, you're saying that your back is hurt, but can a back, can a hurt back do this?
And if it can't, what does it need to do that? And if it can't do that, then we can start like moving and sliding on this, like curve of like, how much function do we have or how much disability do we have? Cool. So it looks, I mean, I will say everyone is special to a degree, but everyone gets the same.
Everyone Gets the same principles applied.
[00:27:06] Speaker A: Cool.
[00:27:07] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:27:07] Speaker B: That's awesome. Anything to add there?
[00:27:10] Speaker A: No. That's exactly how we've kind of molded, I guess how we treat differently than other people. Yeah.
[00:27:17] Speaker B: It was so different.
[00:27:18] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:27:18] Speaker B: And so effective. Like, I left feeling better. I did not left. I did not left feeling fixed.
I didn't leave feeling 100.
[00:27:28] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:27:28] Speaker B: But within the next four days because of the exercises you gave me to take home in the next four days. Shit you not. I felt 100. That's crazy to me. And I'm unique. I'm not promising that that will be anybody else's experience, but.
[00:27:41] Speaker C: Yeah, but you've done a lot of
[00:27:43] Speaker B: five out of five stars.
[00:27:44] Speaker C: You've done a lot of work on your own.
[00:27:45] Speaker B: I do a lot of work on my own. And I also bought that little back warmer brace thing. That thing.
[00:27:51] Speaker C: She got the back.
[00:27:52] Speaker A: She got it too. Yeah.
[00:27:54] Speaker B: Jillian has one now. Megan's on the list.
This thing. I will put a link in the show notes.
[00:28:00] Speaker C: That's for sure.
[00:28:01] Speaker B: Yeah, Riley needs one for sure.
Okay. So I know I'm a unique snowflake, but is there something that most people share? Is there a thing that.
Tell me this, tell me what most people get wrong. What do most people get wrong about their own health and wellness?
Tj,
[00:28:22] Speaker A: go off. Go off.
You won't get fixed the first time. I think that's the biggest.
[00:28:28] Speaker C: That is so.
[00:28:29] Speaker A: So that's what we're all looking for, right?
[00:28:31] Speaker B: That's what I just sold you.
[00:28:32] Speaker A: We don't have time.
So you sold it Great. Dana. I think that's the biggest thing of like it's not going to take one session. It's just a journey to getting better.
[00:28:41] Speaker C: Right.
[00:28:42] Speaker A: So just finding the right people. So it's not. It doesn't even have to be us. There's a lot of great people out
[00:28:46] Speaker C: there that we always providers out there
[00:28:48] Speaker A: that we always refer to like, hey, like, you know, we're not the end all be all. I think, I think the biggest product. Just find a good person that's of the part Heart. That'll be your guide for the journey to getting better. Yeah.
[00:28:57] Speaker B: It's like finding a therapist.
You, you. You got to try them on. Yeah, okay. That's good. Anything else?
[00:29:04] Speaker C: You know, it's. He. He took the words out of my mouth. But I do wanted to add that like I think this is what most dancers specifically get wrong is that if they are on the search for someone, I mean, I understand like you have to go to rehearsal the next day, you Only have so much money in your pocket to spend and invest. You may not even have that much money, but your time to invest and get around and get Ubers or find a ride. Like, I understand how difficult it can be depending on where you are in your career.
But what I can say is that just because you work with or you find a great person and like, if money is an issue, the are other ways to build a relationship. You know, communication and time. Like, I think a lot of dance medicine specialists at heart want to help dancers, like, at their core.
And even if they can't afford the services, like, it still means the world to develop a relationship with them, to, hey, like, thanks for communicating with me.
Here's an update of what I've been doing. Is this right? This is why I've been trying. Like, how do you continue the conversation further while being respectful to their time?
[00:30:21] Speaker B: Right.
[00:30:21] Speaker C: And I think a lot of dancers kind of miss that opportunity because they feel like they've shut it down. Like, oh, I can't afford that.
I just can't at all. So I'm just going to push through whatever I'm doing and just close that wall and really, like, we're healthcare providers. A good healthcare provider really does care. And if they can't see you in clinic, maybe they can send you a video of something that you can do or have you reframe your injury or like give you a realistic process. Like, hey, I know you're dealing with this, but instead of trying to fix it in two weeks, like, give yourself a longer Runway. Because this stuff can take time. I think information, I mean, we live in a world where information is so abundant.
[00:31:00] Speaker B: Totally.
[00:31:00] Speaker C: But I think dancers also do, like having.
That's security or like validation of hearing it from someone with professional experience. Absolutely. And I think that can also be a step or like an investment into like their healing journey too.
Love that.
[00:31:18] Speaker B: To enter that conversation is not. This might be the wrong word, but a negotiation.
[00:31:23] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:31:24] Speaker B: Like, what we're looking for is hands on practice. But maybe what we can afford is a phone call, which was so helpful to me.
An email exchange, some links exchanged, A product. A product exchange.
[00:31:38] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:31:39] Speaker B: Yeah, you're right. It's not the end. Saying, I can't afford an hour of your time is not the same as you can't help me.
[00:31:45] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, not the same. And I think people do want to help.
[00:31:48] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:31:49] Speaker B: Okay, question. I'm very curious right now as a.
I look at my life like it's choreography. The way I move through my kitchen, the Way my, my routine of walking the dog and of doing the things and lately traveling on Thursdays, getting home late Sunday nights or sometimes Monday morning.
Like I, I know and sometimes I watch from the outside. My little idiosyncrasies that make that work for me, that keep me able to do it. Like I know the supplements that I take, I know the pillows that I use are good. I know that I love compression socks on a travel day. Those are my little bitty useful bits. And I'm curious since you guys are so well informed and so hands on in your experience with people who struggle, but also in being people who are out there in the world working really hard at multiple jobs, curious if there are strange things that you do that you know, that work in your daily life.
[00:32:48] Speaker A: Okay, let me go first.
[00:32:49] Speaker C: You please, please go first.
[00:32:51] Speaker A: At, at the end of the day, just with just work life and everything, I kind of just, I just hum just to kind of bring my, just, just calm myself down.
[00:33:01] Speaker B: Yeah, my grandpa used to do that. My grandpa was such a hummer.
[00:33:06] Speaker A: Oh, interesting. So just, just kind of hum. So when Hannah, my fiance, when she sees me just humming's like, oh, she knows I'm gonna give him a little bit or wait till he finishes the hum. Then we can start a conversation or whatever we got through in the house just. Cause we're just bombarded by sensory all day, non stop noises, stinking images, lights. Yeah, so that's my weird thing.
[00:33:31] Speaker B: I like that. Thank you.
How about you, Aaron?
[00:33:35] Speaker C: I feel like I've got like two thoughts on this.
[00:33:38] Speaker B: Okay, go.
[00:33:39] Speaker C: But for, for one, just to keep it streamlined, I think so I recently am on my own like self healing journey too.
And it's funny to hear it from another practitioner just to be like, Aaron, you, you probably should just get more rest.
[00:33:59] Speaker B: Oh dude.
[00:34:00] Speaker C: You know, maybe avoid drinking cold liquids so much. So this is from a traditional Chinese medicine practitioner that did their assessment and you know, I told them like, hey, like what's your, what's your breakfast? What do you do? Because you start early in the mornings and you work late. Like how do you feel yourself? And I say, well honestly I just kind of start off my day with a cup of coffee and I'm like at work and I'll finish my clients and all that stuff and then by the time I'm done, I'm usually done by like 11 or 12. And then I try and squeeze in a workout and I'll just, you know, jam electrolytes and do it and then I'll finally Eat lunch. And they're like, no, you probably. And it's funny because, like, in my head I'm like, well, it's because I'm like, I have all these reasons. Right. So it's always because I'm fasting and like there's no calories in black coffee.
But really it's like I'm. I'm avoiding to hydrate my body after sleeping and not drinking anything at all. I'm dehydrated and I choose coffee that I dehydrate myself even more.
[00:35:02] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:35:03] Speaker C: And I'm trying to do high level work. And you know, sometimes it's body work, sometimes it's strength conditioning. So I'm very active. Yep. And I'm running on fumes. And then by the time I get out, I'm trying to do even more. So it's like this, it's still this like push, push, push mentality that when I reset and just made myself a very basic tea in the morning, I ran out of the powder she gave me. So now I'm doing apple cider vinegar with some cinnamon, hot water and honey. And that is like, just like. That has been a nice easy start to my day to remind myself, like, hey, like it's, it's going to be all right. Like you have something in your body.
[00:35:42] Speaker B: I love a ritual. Like the ritual of coffee is what I love. I, I do actually like the taste as you were talking. I'm also drinking cold coffee. But.
Okay, one more question. I'll bring my sister into this. She is a. A physician and she's always my first call. Although now I have you guys in the group chat. So we'll see about that. Sorry, sis.
She's always my first call if I have an injury or if there's something weird going on. I'm like, dude, what is this?
Should I be considered. Should I make an appointment? Can you just tell me what this is? WebMD says and I started having pretty serious knee pain while we were rehearsing for the man of the woods tour. We were in rehearsing in an arena that now I can't remember the name of it in Jersey somewhere. It's like, you know, not in use anymore. And so we get cheap rehearsal space at this arena. We're rehearsing on the concourse level, like next to the hot dog stand, on linoleum, on concrete, on. It's like not really brutal and long days.
And I started having this knee pain that I really was afraid was a meniscus tear, acl, an mcl, something pretty Serious. So text my sister.
This is when it hurts. This is how bad it hurts.
And my first question to her was, do you think I'm gonna need surgery? And she was like, I thought that she would ask me a couple questions first. Like, okay, well, what is it?
[00:37:14] Speaker C: That.
[00:37:15] Speaker B: And she went, yes, eventually. Yes, like, yes, eventually you will. Normal people who do normal range of motion on not concrete for hours and years need knee surgery. Like, yes, it is likely that you will need to have surgery on one or both of your knees because of what you do. But do you need it right now? I don't know.
I can't say. Here's a doctor in your area. Go see this.
Turns out it was patellar tendonitis.
And I learned how to KT tape the shit out of myself with a lot of ice and eventually not dancing so hard on it. That type of pain went away sometimes it shows up every now and then again. But I was shocked. And I still think about that moment when she responded so quickly.
And so I'm curious if there are any things, tools, tricks, tips for overuse related injuries, like, is there such thing as avoiding overuse injuries?
[00:38:16] Speaker A: Actually, I wanted to ask how did you feel at the moment when she told you that? Because you were built in practice tour.
[00:38:22] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:38:23] Speaker A: And for her to say yes.
[00:38:24] Speaker B: Yeah, I felt awful, sis.
Yeah. If I were really trying to give it a name.
Shocked and hopeless.
[00:38:35] Speaker A: Because I feel like whenever. When we see people at events, those are like the things we try to not give totally when we see them, because it's like they're practice, they're about to go on and that's like the last thing.
[00:38:46] Speaker B: You just psychologically injured them as well.
[00:38:48] Speaker A: And also as dancers, like, you could say something like, you shouldn't do it and like, they're gonna do it. So how can we kind of ease them to move?
[00:38:55] Speaker B: Safer question, how do you do it?
[00:38:57] Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, that brings me. That reminds me of that case where we were at this event and this dancer really like messed up their knee and you know what I'm talking about.
[00:39:10] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:39:11] Speaker C: And in those situations, I feel like once the dancers in that situation, they're like, I need to get ready to like go compete and battle and perform.
This is where I feel like the sports med side comes, is that, you know, there are certain criteria we have to make to determine if someone is like, safe to compete.
[00:39:37] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:39:37] Speaker C: If we determine that they are not safe or highly likely going to make something much, much worse, we usually advise against it and provide reasons for why they shouldn't return.
But also, we do understand that, like, dancers, and this is your craft, this is your field, your purpose.
And the moment, you know, it can. Is also very fleeting. You know, you're not ever really guaranteed a moment like this. Like, as you know, NBA players or NFL where they have games and another season and another year.
So we understand that. And so we try and make, again, this, like, collaboration between, like, does this dancer understand the risk involved? Did we do a good job at taking them?
[00:40:26] Speaker B: Informing them.
[00:40:27] Speaker C: Informing them.
[00:40:28] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:40:28] Speaker C: And also, just be. Information is not enough. Is there actually, like, tools and techniques and treatments that we can do to help them feel more conf. More confident and comfortable in going out there to do it? Okay. And once we've done all that, the
[00:40:46] Speaker A: rest is up to them.
[00:40:48] Speaker C: And honestly, sometimes it works great. Everyone's happy, it wins, and then they can deal with the consequences after. And sometimes they do it and it doesn't work out, and then we do damage control. Right. And I think that's the reality of it. You know, you are.
It's probability statistics and a gamble sometimes. And we try and make the.
The success likelihood as high as we can.
[00:41:12] Speaker B: In their favor.
[00:41:13] Speaker C: In their favor. And obviously, we'll really shut it down. If it's a safety risk where it's like, it's really low, lower than we're comfortable with.
[00:41:22] Speaker B: That must be tough to assess. But it does help and is a relief to hear that it isn't your job to tell somebody what to do.
It is your job to make offerings and give information and make sure that people know the risks and then it's
[00:41:42] Speaker A: on them, because we've seen both sides. So this is what we would do.
But we're here with whatever. We're here to support you with whatever decision you make. I think that's, like, the biggest part, that we're on your side. Even though the event brought us out or the organizations brought us here, like, we're here on your side. Yeah.
[00:41:59] Speaker B: Okay. Rapid fire burnout round.
[00:42:00] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:42:01] Speaker B: This is my favorite. We call it Wrist Roll with it.
And so I was wondering for this special edition of Wrist Roll with it, since you've been roommates and since you know each other so well and are recovering frenemies, can you answer for each other?
[00:42:18] Speaker A: Okay. Uh. Oh. Oh, okay.
[00:42:20] Speaker B: Yes, we can. Okay, we're doing it.
[00:42:21] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:42:22] Speaker C: We can try coffee or tea.
You're a coffee guy?
[00:42:28] Speaker A: No, no, I pick good coffee.
[00:42:31] Speaker C: You do pick a coffee.
[00:42:32] Speaker A: But I don't drink. I'm not a coffee guy.
More tea. But you're You've been more coffee guy lately.
[00:42:38] Speaker C: I have a Nam tea. Because all the changes.
[00:42:41] Speaker B: Yeah, all the changes. While you never. You think you know somebody, and then time goes by and they talk to health care professionals now that they should be drinking tea.
[00:42:49] Speaker C: Exactly.
[00:42:49] Speaker B: Okay, how about morning rehearsal or night rehearsal or workout? I should call it workout. Morning workout, night workout.
[00:42:57] Speaker A: You know, mine.
[00:42:58] Speaker C: Your night.
[00:42:58] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:42:59] Speaker C: You're a night guy.
[00:42:59] Speaker A: I feel like you're not even morning or night. You're just if. When there's time.
[00:43:03] Speaker C: That's correct.
[00:43:03] Speaker B: That's anytime.
[00:43:04] Speaker C: It fits.
[00:43:05] Speaker A: Yeah, if it fits.
[00:43:05] Speaker C: If I can make it most efficient.
[00:43:07] Speaker B: Okay, Gorgeous. How about favorite recording artist?
[00:43:15] Speaker C: What do you listen to nowadays? Man, I feel like you don't. There's not anyone that you're a recording artist.
This might be weird because we really don't talk about music.
[00:43:24] Speaker A: Cause I feel like those are, like, separate spaces, like in separate spaces of.
[00:43:29] Speaker C: Yeah, but TJ does know a lot more about music and rap history, like, than I do.
[00:43:35] Speaker A: You listen to a lot more newer music?
[00:43:36] Speaker C: I listen to a lot, like, kind of new artists.
[00:43:39] Speaker B: Okay. That's very cute of you. That's very cute of you.
How about if you were stranded on a desert island, who's the one person that. If you got to have one person come with you, who. Who would. Who would. Each other.
[00:43:51] Speaker A: Take care of me. Take care of me. Sorry. Sorry, baby.
[00:43:55] Speaker B: Listen, there will be discussions.
It probably is the same answer, but I saw this meme recently. It was like, if you were gear. If. If some radio show was like, hey, you get $10 million if.
Or when you can survive in a room with one other person for a week, no other stimulus, just you and that one person, who would that person be?
[00:44:21] Speaker C: I think we'd be okay.
[00:44:22] Speaker A: Okay. We'd be fine.
[00:44:24] Speaker B: I said Riley and I would be chilling after seven days. I'd be like, oh, we just getting started.
Like, we'd crush that.
Who do we notify?
[00:44:37] Speaker A: Let's go.
[00:44:38] Speaker B: Okay, my friends, final question for you both is, what are the words that move you? Is there a north star, a quote, a guiding principle, a mantra, a thought, a sentence?
[00:44:49] Speaker A: Oh, I have a mantra. I've been. I use ever since my accident. Tell me it's one day at a time. One day. We all have one day. Just do it the best we can. Yes.
[00:45:00] Speaker B: And did that come immediately, post accident, or was that something that you grew to find?
[00:45:06] Speaker A: Grew to find. Definitely grew to find Mind. Just because with. That's like another whole story in itself of being paralyzed from neck down of slowly regaining things. And it was very like, oh, look what I got. Look what I got the next day. So it's just slowly improving, obviously, like, the shirt that you're wearing, like, progress, like, you know.
Yeah.
[00:45:27] Speaker C: So it's a sick shirt.
[00:45:29] Speaker B: Thanks. Thanks for my shirt, tj.
Well, and that also gives you evidence when you focus on the gains of one day and you know that you did that day, then the next day,
[00:45:39] Speaker A: maybe you can, however big, however small it is. Yeah. Take the win. Yeah, I like that.
[00:45:45] Speaker B: Thank you so much. How about you, Aaron?
[00:45:47] Speaker C: I feel like I'm now entering my, like, Taoist era of, like, don't force it, flow with it, and learning a lot of, like, how that applies to, like, my life, my health, my work, relationships, all of it is all flowing all in one here in the now.
[00:46:09] Speaker B: Thank you guys so very much for your time and your talent and your compassion for dancers, your interest in progress, for communities and for individuals. It really speaks to me and I am so appreciative to have you both in my professional network of people who heal in the world.
[00:46:25] Speaker A: Oh, we're lucky enough.
[00:46:26] Speaker B: So lucky. Love you both so much.
[00:46:28] Speaker C: Thank you.
[00:46:28] Speaker B: Thank you for being here.
[00:46:29] Speaker C: Love it. Thank you.
[00:46:30] Speaker B: Thank you, listener, viewer, for being in my network of people who make the world better.
Be sure to click the bell for notifications. Leave a review or rating if you're loving what you're hearing. And of course, get out there and keep it exceptionally funky.
Crushed that outro.
That was funky.
[00:46:47] Speaker A: That was good.
[00:46:47] Speaker B: This podcast was produced by me with the help of many Big, big love to our executive assistant and editor, Riley Higgins. Our communications manager is Fiona Small with additional support from Ori Vajadares. Our music is by Max Winnie, logo and brand design by Bree Reitz. And if you're digging the podcast, leave a review and rating and please share. Also, if you want to connect with me and the many marvelous members of the Words that Move Me community, visit words that move me.com if you're simply curious to know more about about me and the work that I do outside of this podcast, visit thedanawilson.com.
