Transcript:
Intro: Welcome to Words That Move Me, the podcast where movers and shakers, like you, get the information and inspiration you need to navigate your creative career with clarity and confidence. I am your host, Dana Wilson, and I move people. I am all about the tools and techniques that empower tomorrow's leaders to make the work of their dreams and live a full life while doing it. So whether you're new to the game or transitioning to your next echelon of greatness, you're in the right place.
Dana: Welcome to words that move me, the podcast where movers and shakers, like you get the information and inspiration. You need to navigate your creative career with clarity and confidence. I am your host, Dana Wilson. And I moved people. I am all about the tools and techniques that empower tomorrow's leaders to make the work of their dreams and live a full life while doing it. So whether you're new to the game or transitioning to your next echelon of greatness, you're in the right place, friends. Wow. I am so glad that you are joining me today, by the way. Hi, Dana here. Welcome to the podcast. Um, I'm glad that you're here because I didn't even know how much I needed to hear what our guest today has to say. So I'm going to go ahead and bet that you could use an ear full of Mata Arnold, right about now.
Um, Maude is a tap dancer, an actress, a writer, a C O O a. And as you're about to find out, she is the unofficial spokesperson of choosing the bright side. She is so damn bright. Oh my goodness. Mada and I together, this episode is high voltage, my friend and I am so excited to share it with you. But first wins. We start every episode with wins here, at words that move me and today I'm celebrating a very special one today. I am celebrating dancers, owning their careers, and I know that sounds really corny. I wish you could see the sincerity in my face. I'm tearing up actually. Um, because when you face what I am talking about, when you actually see it happening, it is quite a powerful thing. Um, on January 13th, I hosted the first free words that move me coaching call of the year.
And I was thrilled by the turnout. I was inspired by the way that the dance community is investing in itself in themselves, in, in yourselves. The support was so real. The vulnerability was also so real. And I think if I were to, to reach and say the empowerment and the progress, we're also very real. So thank you all for coming. And if you couldn't make it, or if you completely missed it altogether, if you had no idea this even happened. And, and if you're curious, if you want to get your feet wet in some career coaching, don't miss another one. Sign up for my mailing
[email protected] and you'll be there for the next one. Um, that said, though, you don't have to wait for the next free one. You can sign up for the words that move me community. Literally anytime, um, memberships start at $3 a month. So it was like kind of close to free. Like it's really almost free, kind of almost $3 more than free. Um, I'll be sure to link to all of those membership details in the show notes to this episode. But yeah, if you're, if you're itching for it, if you're feeling stuck or overwhelmed or confused about where to go and what to do with regards to your lovely creative career, then come and get that coaching. I'm here for it. I am here for you. That is what I'm celebrating today. Now you go, what is going well in your world?
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Congratulations. I am so glad you're winning. Keep it up, keep crushing. All right. Now let's do this. Maud Arnold is the co-founder of Chloe and MAUD productions and the Chloe and Mude foundation. And if you didn't put the two together by now, Chloe Arnold and Maud Arnold are indeed sisters. I actually slip up in this episode and call mod Chloe classic sister switch Ru happens all the time. They say, uh, anyways, I had Chloe on the podcast way back in episode three. And to this day, that is one of my favorite episodes. So if you haven't heard that one yet, check it out right after this one, because it is truly wild how similar these two women are and yet, so remarkably different, so remarkable period. Um, I cannot wait for you to hear what mod has to say about optimism, about authenticity, about being a boss, literally. Um, so, so let's, uh, get down to business, I suppose, please enjoy this conversation with the one and only Maud Arnold,
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Dana: Holy smokes, Maud Arnold. You know what? You might win for number of reschedules for number of move, move around, schedules, schedule shifts. Um, but I'm so, so glad to have you here, Matt Arnold, welcome to the podcast.
Maud: Thank you so much for having me Dana and thank you for, um, rescheduling with me so many times. Uh,
Dana: Oh my God. At least half of those were mine,
Maud: You know, it's cause we're busy and that is a blessing. So
Dana: I am in agreement with that. I do think we kind of in our pre-roll to this conversation, we're talking about like, how do people do it? How do people who do all the things, do all the things, because we're trying to do some of the things struggle. Some of the times
I watched Debbie Allen and this woman does everything. And I don't understand, I still don't understand at 71, how you can executive produce one of the biggest shows on television and then still cook dinner for your family, like who is she? And then also run a dance school
That as well, Chloe was telling me a story on the plane on the way back from NYC da one weekend. Um, she and I finagled the seats next to each other and people must have just really not been our nonstop chatter, but she told me, Debbie Allen handwrites invitations to her events.
And then handwrites thank you cards to people who donated and came to
This conversation with your sister is the reason why I bought words that move me stationary. So I can be handwriting you a thank you note after this very cold, holy
And last night I was writing. Thank you cards with one of my people that works with us, cause I have really bad handwriting. So it would be like chicken scratch. And, but every note is completely personalized.
Wait. So someone else wrote them,
But you, I just gave away my secret it's okay. Cause you know what, anybody who knows me knows that my handwriting is like a lawyers or a doctors, but everything that is, I typed up every note that she turns the sentiment is personal completely. Yes.
Okay. So, you know, we are becoming people who do all the things. I think it is an absolute boss, move someone else hand, write your personalized, like invitations and thank you cards. We should all aspire.
And it's great. She has is what I'm talking about. Amazing handwriting and you know, it's great extra money for her. It stresses me out because I'm like, they're not gonna be able to read this and it all just works out. And then you get my sentiment because like in one of the letters, she was like, why did you mean to write ride or die? And I said, oh yes, that's one of my close friends, but she helps our foundation a lot. And she said, okay, I just want to make sure because it was professional letters.
I love this. Okay. I'm going to be, um, asking for the name of this person. We'll talk anyways. Uh here's how, how we begin other than with that lovely conversation about stationary and letters. All right here. Here's how it goes on the podcast. All of my guests introduce themselves. Some people find that daunting. Some people find it liberating. It's the top of the year. I think it's a great time to introduce ourselves. Um, I'm actually kind of jealous that you get to do this and I don't, everybody here knows me for the most part. So go ahead and hit me with, uh, w what do you want us to know about you Maud?
My name is mod Arnold. I am from Washington DC. I currently live in Los Angeles and New York city. I'm a professional tap, dancer, philanthropist, entrepreneur, and tech investor, and creator of things. And I am an expert in joy, but you know, Dana, how you said everybody here knows you. You know what it made me think of, you know, how Jay Z has that famous song that always plays at the club. And he says, allow me to reintroduce myself. My name is Jose coming home.
That's true. Allow me to reintroduce myself. Um, well, this is actually, I'm glad that you brought that up. Cause I just rerecorded new ins and outs for the podcast, like reintroducing the podcast. And, uh, you know what, actually, this is very cool. Every so often I would say every year, but it's more often than that. I focus on and refine my idea of my future self. I have several different techniques for doing this, but one of the ways that I do this is simply write about a handful of people that I really admire. I explain why I admire them, what it is that they do, how they operate, you know, the, the qualities of them that make them so admirable to me. And then I just switched their name out for my name and they switched they with me or I, and then I see how those things line up. Sometimes there are glaring. Like, no, that ain't true. No, that's no, no, you can't say that quite yet, but there, but then in other areas I'm like, oh no, that actually is me. Like I, like we just did with Debbie Allen. Like how, how do you become someone who does all the things and then you found out, wait, no, no, no. I actually actually definitely do all of that. Um, so that perspective shift is really cool, but one of the people on my future self maps was your sister, Chloe Arnold, who has been on the podcast before. And I know that you guys obviously being sisters have a lot in common in terms of your values, your default mode, just in terms of personality, you both strike me as borderline perpetually optimistic. You are breasts.
We will, we'll not give it up. The joy
Was this something instilled in you from the very beginning. Is this something you found or cultivated together? Like, what is this joy thing for you?
Well, it's so interesting because my mom has always said that I like came out of the wound like this like came three weeks late. So that's also why my mom says I'm a procrastinator, Were chilling. And I was like, really? I was like Butterball. I was like really chubby. I weighed almost 10 pounds. It was very cute. But like, she's like you waited it. She she's like, you've always taken your time and done the way, the things that you want to do the way you want to do. And I think that, you know, client, I grew up poor and without a lot of material things. Um, but our mom never let us play the victim in that and always made us either see the bright side or create the bright side. And so I think that's why we are so, um, committed to that as adults, you know, remember back in the day toys R us and they say, I don't want to grow up. I'm a toys R us kid. And I'm like, we believe, why do you have to grow up? Obviously you have to pay bills, but why do we feel like we have to lose that child? Like curiosity? Um, cause so much joy comes from curiosity. Who are you? You know, what makes you tick? Oh, what is this? How does this work? How do you know, what is this place like, I want to travel there. What is this language feel like in my mouth? And I feel like if you don't lose that curiosity and you're committed to joy and using joy as the barometer of your life, then you just do it every day. And it becomes habit.
I love that idea. And I love creating curiosity as a mode for forward motion, um, self improvement, exploration, and like creating new circumstances for yourself.
Absolutely because you can create, I have this mug and it says I have two mugs in one, I got my from home goods. Um, isn't that an advertisement for them, but I'm just saying like, if you ever need like something that uplifts you that, and you small budget go to home goods. And I have one mug that says sunshine, and then I have a mug that says, create your own sunshine. So on the that I'm like, Hmm, I need to create it. I use that much for my tea. And then on the days where I like, oh, I am shine. And I have the sun, I use that much.
I really would just love to dig a peak in your cupboard.
I'm like my cupboard, I think,
Will you do me this? Cause it would be fun to pair this episode with our favorite mugs. I have a handful of favorite mugs as well. And it is, it's interesting. Like sometimes I do it consciously like, Ooh, this is inappropriate, but I'm going to say it. Um, I got his hand-me-downs from my mom. I don't know where she got them, but a series of mugs that have animal orgies on them. And you don't actually know that that's what you're looking at. Cause they're kind of artful line drawings and I have, there are bears, bunnies and elephants. And I only have, I think one of my other siblings has one of them, but I have bunnies and bears. Um, and it's hysterical to me because you really do have to look closely to see what exactly is going on. And so when I'm feeling mischievous or sneaky or like, Hmm, I kind of like maybe kind of want to put a middle finger up to the situation. I am drinking from an animal orgy mug fully on zoom calls, casual professional.
They don't know. And they didnt know, but they do now.
Well they do now. And now they know that maybe if you have an animal or do you mind, they need to get it together. It might be a sign. Okay. So coffee mugs aside. I think you're, you're a principled person who thinks deliberately act accordingly. And this is something I admire about your sister as well. Um, I just, yeah, I'm attracted to it. I'm very attracted to it, but you and I actually, haven't got to log as many hours as Chloe and I have because she and I worked together. Um, so I want to get real and authentic. Um, I want to like place myself where you were about what is this now three months ago? How long ago did you guys wrap?
We wrapped in October. End of October. So yeah, three months ago, two months.
So two months ago you were working on a massive apple feature film called spirited, starring Ryan Reynolds. And I can't even, I'm so jealous because Carol is like top of the tops for me. Um, and I know so many of my listeners a want to be working on feature films. I want to be living by coastal, want to be, you know, in the places and spaces that you are working in. So without asking you to tell me everything, tell me everything. Like how did you wind up on the project? Um, what were the skills that you felt really prepared with? Is there anything you would do differently? Is there anything that like totally crashed and burned?
I, well, when I have to say, oh, and also Octavia Spencer starring in the film too.
Incredible. Thank you for saying that. That is massively important.
Oscar winner it's insane. Phenomenal, phenomenal human being like so sweet. She posted Chloe yesterday on her Instagram talking about some, I can't wait to, y'all see this movie, wait til you see what Chloe Arnold did get her now before you miss out, you know, before
Try go that, that type of elevating Chloe freaking Arnold has been out there in the world, elevating people, sharing people's talent on her platform, giving people opportunities. And now that is what is being returned to her. This is a brilliant example of that. And I've always looked to her as being a person who does that very well. And I'm so glad to hear that that is being returned in her direct.
It's so cool. And you are absolutely right. And again, we learned that from our mom and Debbie Allen and our dance teacher, Ms. Tony lawn break, growing up, it was like, you are your sister's keeper. There's no competition amongst, amongst, you know, people you love. You're only in competition with yourself. So if you're not elevating those around you and you're not elevating yourself, what are you doing? And I think that going back to your question about how do we get to the movie? We'll close the choreographer. I'm her sister. Um, I dance too, you know? And, and it's so funny because sometimes people ask me like, oh, like, do you feel insecure? Or they insinuate, nobody asks anything straight up, by the way, are you insecure? Like, do you feel like you just got this because of your sister, are you in this space? You know, or am I like walking on eggshells? Cause I feel like, oh, I'm here. Just because Chloe is my sister. And like, she hired me like, first of all, let's just talk about it. One nepotism is a real thing because everybody utilizes nepotism. It doesn't have to be your family. It can be your friend. I call it. It was proximity. You know, you're my friend. I can get you a job. I know you. I think the problem with nepotism and why it has a bad rap is, is when people get jobs they're not qualified for because they're family or because they know somebody like, Hey Dana, can you run? Can you be the CEO of my, um, computer tech company? And you don't even know anything about computers. That would be the misuse of nepotism. But if I'm like, Hey Dana, there's this choreography for this TV show. It sounds exactly up your alley. If you to do it. That's the right way. That's networking. That's the point of your network is to utilize your network. It's not abusing the situation it's using. Right? So I went with Chloe to do the movie for five weeks at the beginning, I was a part of the design team because the movie was a seven month process in Boston and you know, Chloe and I have our businesses and we have our foundation and I also, I run all of those things. I'm the COO chief operating officer. So I run everything. If you work for us and you want to get paid, I'm writing the check. If you anything. I do all of that. So it was kind of one of those things where it's like, if I was in Boston with her for seven months working full time, everything else will fall by the wayside and would slip.
It was slipped. 100%. Our foundation would slip. We have after-school programs running in LA, too. In Brazil. We have a lot of things going on. And um, I was like, I'm just going to do the five weeks. So I would go for the five weeks. It was so much fun. Um, I'd worked on a film before with Jared Grimes and Paul Becker called breaking Brooklyn. And that was my first time on a feature length film. Love that movie. It's great. Go watch it. It's super heartwarming. Great Christmas movie. And, um, it was Chloe's first movie. So I was also going kind of like knowing something to support and, and, you know, clay was very much of the, like, of course I'm bringing my sister we've, we've been sucks in everything. We've done. Success wise, we've done it together. So going into my biggest project to date, why wouldn't I bring my ACE? So I went and I helped. And I, a lot of it was, uh, not even a lot of dancing. It was a lot of like helping her Ava and Martha organized things, put things together, make sure everybody has a script, make sure everybody is on the same page. It's structured. Just making sure we're staying on task, creating reference boards for things, pulling references, thinking of ideas. I'm a very big idea person having ideas. Uh, also having just a, another eye. That's not making up the dances, you know, and I think that in that five weeks flew by, it was amazing. It was so much fun. I learned so much too because I had never been on a film of such a big budget and you know, a big studio and just the learning process and meeting all of the amazing executive producers on this film and the people that were working production and all of this stuff.
Um, and I think the tools I say that got me, there are one doing all of the work when I was a PA for music, rap music, videos, and RMB videos. When I was at Columbia, I was a PA and I would have jobs like, can you take this toothbrush and make sure we get all those little Nicks out of that white wall, because we should be told these people who weren't going to make their wall. Can you, after report diamonds, fake diamonds on this video ground, a bikini, can you pick up each diamond and you can't sweep it? Cause then desk gets on it and we don't want a poor desk center. And, uh, me being at the feet of a woman while I'm pursuing an Ivy league education, making a hundred dollars to work a 24 hour day, and she's making maybe five to 10 K to work a few hours and stand there and look pretty and doing that with joy and humility and learning how to be a part of the team and knowing, and not feeling like I'm unimportant.
No, because guess what? No, he's picking up the diamonds, the video can't get made. And I think that it's that humility that a lot of people don't understand. You see the success and you don't see the steps. You know, like I could have been like, I am at Columbia university and I'm getting an Ivy league degree. Why am I doing this for such little money? I mean, that video that I'm talking about, it was actually a 25 hour day and I got to get $125 and I'm on my hands and knees doing this. And then, but here's the thing then you flip and you turn to now we're on the movie. Cause I went back to shoot for a month and a half. And um, we're dancing on his platforms with water and there's a PA who's coming between every take with a towel and wiping it down and, and I make sure, and it's also just like natural for me to be like, thank you so much.
Thank you for working so hard because having Pete at PA it is the most thankless difficult low-paying job on set. But let me tell you the best producers, the best executive producers, the best directors were all PAs. And, and I think that that, because it's, you, you understand how important it is to be a part of the team. And I think that again, getting to this place, it's like no ego, there's no space or time for ego. Like I have been lucky and blessed enough to be, to have met and know some of the most legendary and most famous people in the world. None of them have ego, you know, like, so like I've worked with Beyonce and you've worked with major ALA celebrities as well. And I remember the first time I worked with Beyonce, I walk in and just, wow, you're so beautiful.
And then we were doing stuff all day and she, she came up to me and she said, thank you so much for working so hard. And, and I'm like, oh, this is, and I was 21 at the time. So I am I'm screaming on the inside because also I had just seen the Beyonce experience store. And I was like, did span girling, but totally professional. She was so kind, and it just reminds you that it's like her kindness is a reflection of her own personal joy. And it's like, if you're not going to be kind and be that famous, what's the point because you can be famous and live in a bubble of anger and insecurity and despair. She's living in joy and kindness and love and, and not insecurity. And so I was learning from her and Debbie Allen and, you know, rip, I got to meet the incredible Cicely Tyson before she passed away. And when she was getting an honorary Oscar, and just the lessons and conversations I've had with these incredible women and people, it just teaches you to be humble every step of the way I love.
So the word despair, yes, that's, what's happening in the world is just like people doing all of the right things and like being all mighty and powerful, but feeling like the beside of the human stick and don't get me wrong. I really, I think you and your sister are exquisite. Examples of manifesting what you want in the world. And for you both, certainly from you, what it sounds like today, that's joy. I don't think you can Dodge the other side of the emotional spectrum. I think as a human being, you will experience rejection or, um, self-doubt, or maybe even despair, but identifying that you have the power to create the other side of the spectrum. That is where the solid gold is at. Like, yes, I can deal with despair. I can deal with self-doubt. I can deal with frustration, confusion. And because I can deal with those things, I spend most of my time doing the other, or I spend most of my time, you know, processing those things, feeling those things. And then moving on to, to, to the other side of the spectrum that
I think that's what defines us is how do we deal with the hard moments? You know, like when it rains in LA you're like, Ugh, but then how much more does it make you love LA when the sunshine comes out? You know, it's like you can't exp do you remember that song? Joy and pain, sunshine and rain.
Oh yes. Ooh. I feel like I did across the floors to that in jazz class a lot.
Probably. Yes. Probably an y'all sorry, I can't sing, but I also, I often think about that. Like, you can't have one without the other absolute to compare, this is the argument it's like, do you wallow in this? Right.
Right. This is the argument for my belief that we will all spend our human lives in a pretty perfect bell curve of distribution of positive and negative. Because if you can think of a joyful thing, a perfect day on set, the absence of that thing would be an equal and opposite, not so great feeling. So I really do think this like equal 50, 50, the thought that 50 50 will happen randomly and naturally is comforting to me. And knowing that like, I can, I can change my mind at any point about whether or not a rainy day is a bad day or a good day. I think of people like you. I think of people like gene Kelly, I think of Jillian Meyers and all of a sudden, I love a rainy day. Cause I'm like, someone's out there loving this rain
And that loving it, or sitting at home, cuddling by themselves and loving, loving that
Whatever got canceled. Right. I'm only not loving it. If I am in my car on the 134 in particular,
That's no fun, but I always try to magnify the positive and I'll be like, wow, like when I'm on the freeway and it's raining, I'm like, tell me your thoughts. That means there won't be any brush fires for at least a little bit.
I love you
Because I went without, I was driving down the 405 and I literally drove past the hill on fire and I could feel the heat on my window. And I was on the other side of the highway and I was like, this is so scary because LA is so dry. So I always just try to magnify the positive. That's me. One of me and Chloe's little mantras is magnify the positive, like, you know, in horror movies or not even horror movies and TV shows, as soon as they say it, couldn't get worse, it's going to get worse. And so you never say this couldn't be worse. And I also say that to say like, because I am so joyful and fun and even seemingly carefree, sometimes people tell me, sometimes people might think, oh, mom's a pushover Mazda. You know, just kind of wakes up somebody.
Speaker 2 00:31:29 Actually, I haven't got a few people at DM me and they're like, are you really like this? Or is this fake for Instagram? Like, no, I'm really like this, but it's not without work. It's it's choices. It's cutting people off who aren't kind, who aren't, who aren't feeding that joy. It's cutting off circumstances. It's not taking jobs. Um, that might compromise your values or beliefs. It's, you know, stop dating the person that puts you down. That's not okay. It comes with sacrifice, but I don't even call it. It's like, it comes with sacrifice that upgrades you, but you have to sacrifice. And I think that people forget that what joy is just like, oh, mom's just happy. And it's like, yes, but these are choices. I mean, growing up client, I had friends being murdered. We've been to too many funerals of people under 21. Um, you know, we saw people, so many friends going to prison, going to jail, facing systematic racism on a daily basis. And which is why I always say joy is an act of resistance. You know, the world is trying to crush you in many ways. And it's like, nah, I'm a be, I'm happy. I would figure this out. What can I do? Who can I call to brighten my day? What can I read sometimes I just watch fresh prince of Bel-Air because it makes me happy.
I think what you're saying right now, underlines the difference between toxic positivity and positive. I think what you're saying is like, things really are happening. It's not saying it's not looking at incarceration and being like, oh, perfect. That is great because those people are going to come out of it better and I'm going to learn from it. And it's like, that's ignoring reality. That is delusional. That is toxic positivity
And it's ignorance.
Yes. Um, I think your understanding of what is awful and your understanding of your ability to create joy for yourself happen in, in the same body and sometimes at the same time, even, and that is a particular brand of positivity that I want to subscribe to because I have felt, especially now, as I'm getting into coaching work and I'm, you know, I'm a person who's on Instagram in 2022, you're going to see the toxic positivity. And it really gives me cavities. I am, I, my dad encouraged me to be a critical thinker. My, you know, my lived experience is one of a middle-class white person from the suburbs. My, the things that I've seen are the things that I've seen, the things that I've learned or the things that I've learned, but I'm committed to my own awareness of myself in relationship to the world, versus I'm just going to invent the world in my head. That's the way I think it should be going. Um, yeah. Cause I think that's dangerous that doesn't, it's not as helpful as what you're explaining.
It's dangerous for the person doing it for their, for themselves. And it's dangerous for young people because I think sometimes people are, are, do like the fake positivity and pretend like it's all good because they've experienced severe trauma in their life and this is the way to mask it. And when you're masking it, you're not doing the work of actually trying to heal and go through it. You know, you got to go through it to get to it. And, and I think people forget the strength in vulnerability. You know, like right now I'm on Instagram, I'm doing this money diary. So I put it up yesterday and I was like money diary, day one. And then I got all these dams from people that are like, what is a money diary? And I'm like, I spend too much money.
So you are writing down every single thing you spent,
Every single thing. And yesterday I was going to go buy a smoothie. And then I was like, I can make one at home. And that saved me like $15 top to bottom. You know what I'm saying? Because I'm like, Ooh, I don't want to have to write that down
That I do. I do. I do something similar with food diary or food journaling. Ooh, that's great. I don't do it constantly, but when I'm really focused on my eating and the way I feel in my body and about my body, I do, I write it down because for exactly the same reason you just said, I don't want to have to write down handful of almonds again, like I did already. I can actually, it takes less energy for me to sit right here and not do that. And so I'm not going to get up and walk. I'm not going to open the cupboard. I'm not going to eat a handful of almonds and I'm not going to write it down. And I just saved countless, countless, what is it? I guess, calories, calories, or K calories or whatever. But I, I think, I think that type of journaling is very valuable because again, it's awareness, it's awareness. And then it's also the remembering that you get to choose. And so much of that type of mindless spending or in some cases eating comes just by default. It's like, oh no, that's what I do. I get a Starbucks in the morning. And you think that's a normal word?
Yeah. Or I'm bored. I'll eat bored. I'll eat bored, eating. You do
Not in January. My friend, I am wrapping it up. The emotional, eating the board, eating. No thank you. I am here for a life that is way more exciting than my food. That is what I'm about. And you're here for life. That's more exciting than spending money because when you get to make stuff, it's also, let's be real. There are a few examples that are exceptions, but it's better.
Well, yesterday was bomb. And then I made another one today and I'm like, I'm good at this. I mean, you know, I also like to toot my own horn, which I think is extremely important to do as small to celebrate little wins. I was like, this is Bob. I was like, this is delicious.
I know that that on the podcast, I start every episode with wins. I love this very interview. We'll actually be following a win. And I don't even know what that win is yet because I haven't recorded the opening of this podcast. Um, I love that you're celebrating fabulous smoothies and the money diary. I think everybody should go check on your Instagram page. I'm very curious to see the type of spending and that's
And I'm going to post what I spent. Um, so I just started it yesterday. I'm going to post at the end of the week, I'm into the seven days. I'm going to post everything that I spent. And then I'm going to challenge people if they want to join me on the money diary. Because also I want to write, like, if I'm embarrassed to say, to show what I'm spending, then I shouldn't be spending it because the reality is right. It's like, I don't want to do any fruitless spending. And I also think it's super important. I got this idea by the way, from refinery 29 money diaries. And I started noticing in these people's, uh, money diaries that a lot of people who made good money budgeted between a hundred and $500 a month to giving back, to donate into a cause. And I donate money so much to so many things, but I don't track it. And so I'm like, you know what? I only track it at the end of the year when I'm like doing my write-offs, but I'm like, you know what? I want to start because if I'm wasting money, let's say a hundred dollars a month on smoothies that I can be making at home. I'd rather take that a hundred dollars and give it to a cause. So it's not even about like, I can't afford these things. It's like redistributing how I'm spending my money and focusing more on saving because you know, the reality is, is that I could be saving more and why not save? I have mortgages. I could be putting them down money on the principal.
Let's talk about mortgages, plural. Hell yes, God. I'm so impressed by you. And I love, I, I wanted to talk about kind of goal cultivation and the way that you make things happen for yourself. And what we're talking about now is exactly that lifestyle changes like keeping a money diary, which might not be natural right now is really not a big shift. We're not talking about like running seven miles a day. We're not talking about white knuckle, gripping yourself through something you hate doing so that you can have a six pack abs at the end or, or, or $50,000 in the bank. At the end, it's like practical changes, mindful shifts that are like, Ooh, I could be, I spend a lot in these areas and a lot relative to maybe past self or a lot relative to, um, future people. I think this is another misconception that keeps middle-class people middle-class is thinking that very wealthy people spend a lot of money all the time.
Um they eat at home.
They eat at home or they say like, you know, we'll give a budget for something like, yes, you can spend this amount of money. And I bet that relative to the amount of money they have, that number is lower than the amount of money. Like I see, I see some fellow dance types buying these cars and these shoes and these purses and these like nails and hairs. And, and I don't know how much people make, always been fascinated though. So actually mod, we probably gonna have to have you come back for money March or do an Instagram live together on your mind.
That was March. Cause I have a whole, I have a whole, uh, theory about that and I actually call it, this is really inappropriate, but it's okay. Because guess what? Everybody's on Instagram and everything now. So I can say it, I call it stripper money mentality and tell me more. Well, I booked, I booked this job that paid $500. I can go now and spend that on shoes and my nails, which I didn't realize that people were spending upwards of $200 on these emails. I had no idea. It's a thing.
I had no idea.
Well. And when you look at the amount of work and craftsmanship and materials and time, it takes time. I'm not saying those nails are poorly evaluated, valued, poorly valued. But what I am saying is like, I don't know, but like I'm seeing people with new nails often and yes,
I didn't know it was so expensive.
Oh my God. And I think here's the thing is that I'm all about like, do things like spend money, invest in your joy and invest in things that make you feel good. And I am, Chloe will call me a shopaholic any day. All my friends would be like, mom, be shopping. I have, I have four closets full of clothes. Like, let me not pretend. But I also am at a place now where I don't shop as much and I give away so many clothes. Everybody will tell you, like I have, I also love sneakers, but I remember I saw melody. Assani like maybe like eight years ago. And she's a designer, she's friends with Chloe. And she had just come up with these shoes over $200. And I was like, oh my God. I was like, melody. I love those shoes. I was actually at an event at like at her store. And I was like, these shoes are so cute. I was like, they're so dope. Congrats. And I was like, I wanted to buy them, but I'm saving money to buy an apartment right now. So I can't buy them. And she said, girl, don't buy my shoes, buy your apartment. And this is the, oh, this is the woman who, whose shoes it is. And she understood and saw the value in investing and saving. So again, it's about sacrifices. Like you sacrifice for joy. But back to my stripper mentality, it's just going to bring it back. I feel like, sorry, I had to bring it back. So like shippers can make a lot of money, right? They can, some also don't make any money also, which is everybody
Everybody's focusing on this history. Strippers are rich.
Yes. And I'm like, a lot of them are, but they're stuck in a cycle because if you can make $2,000 a night, you might go spend that 2000 the next day, because you say, well, I'm going to make it again tonight, but that's not sustainable. Because then that means you have $0 at the end of each day. And what if you break your zero
Or you have to, when you get to the end of the year and you have to pay taxes
And you have to pay taxes because you 1099 to, because you're already gigger and the government is going to the IRS. No cut for that cash. Okay. Because if you have high value items, nice car, nice house. They're going to say, well, where's all the money. How did you get this? Where, how do you prove this? Which is also why, you know, for anybody listening, if you realize now you can't deposit cash into other people's bank accounts anymore. You have to, because they have to be able to track all of the money because there was so much money laundering. I call that the stripper money mentality of like, oh, I made this today. I can make it back again next week or tomorrow. And the next job I'm gonna spend it off. And there's no looking forward at the future. It's like, do you want to buy property? Do you want to go on vacation? Do you have money for a rainy day? Do you have, you know, if, even if your career is like booming, God forbid you get injured. God forbid you have to go home and take care of a family member or, or Corona virus happens again and everything. You lose gigs.
Exactly. So that's what I call it. And I think that I fell into that trap when I was living in New York, after I graduated from college and I was teaching dance at dance studios and I was making great money. And I was just spending money in New York. Like I was balling. And it was kind of so easy in New York is the easiest. And it was like, oh, I'm not going to make that next week. I'm gonna make that next week. And then at the end of the year, my mom was like, you owe money in taxes. Where's that money? I'm like, so now my mom always says, pay yourself. First 30% of everything you make. Um, speaking of which, and we can actually talk about this in March Monday, March clay and I are investors in a financial app app called Abel that helps 10 99 owners and giggers plan where their taxes, it links to your bank account. It tells you so every time. So let's say you signed up and you got a deposit for $10,000 from a gig. I paid you $10,000. You get the deposit is going to say, Hey, Dana, you just got a $10,000 deposit from Chloe. And my productions is this work or was this a gift? And you can say, it's worked. And then they're going to say, all right, great. Do you want us to transfer the
by in person to emergency fund 10% to the tax fund, 30% to a retirement.
Exactly. And then it'll do it for you and I'll even pay your quarterlies for you.
Oh, that's the part. Okay. So we'll, we'll reserve this conversation for later, but the whole quarterly thing, I'm like, listen, I hate it. I hate that.I I'm a sensible person. Right? I've spent this entire episode talking about awareness and choosing my feelings, but let me tell you what I believe in my bones, that taxes, not my thoughts, but taxes make me angry. And so I'm like, why would I ever do that four times per year when I could just do it once
And every year it's awful. And I'm going to my tax payer right after this podcast.
Perfect, good. We'll bring a lot of questions for me. I ask every year, I'm like, do I really have to do it that way? Can I can't I just do it once per year. And every time I get some wishy-washy answer this like, well, you really should. It doesn't really change. So I'm like, well then I'm not going to do it. And then every year wish I had, and every year they ask if I did an album, having a meltdown, having 10 different tantrum four times a year
As you get that. And you're like, oh, you get that 20,000 bill. And it feels a little different than having broken it up at $5,000 bills four times. Right.
But I think, go ahead. Oh no, go ahead. I'm actually good at shaving off percentages off of my income and di and dispersing them into a candidate. That I'm very good at that. And so
I feel like, but that's so unique, you know, that you're like the 1% of 1%
I might be, but I got this from kind of a shameful piece of me, which is my entire mentality about money until I was like 22. When I was trying to buy a house was work really hard and pretend like you're broke. That was it. I had no other strategy at all. And so then not a bad strategy. It's not a bad strategy, but it's not going to make you a millionaire, which is like it's. So I found a book it's called the money book. I talk about it during money, March a lot. And it's specifically for independent contractors, people who are self-employed and the, the holy Trinity, they call it is this notion of a retirement account, an emergency account, and then a tax account, three different high-interest yield savings accounts, preferably at a bank that doesn't even have a storefront, some III bank somewhere. Um, so you can't even be going in and taking money out.
I cut up ATM cards for counseling That just disappears and is earning hundreds of dollars in interest per year. And when I get paid, I just shave off percentages and throw it in there. So I do have money when the tax man comes once a year, I do it four times a year. I'm having a tantrum. So anyways, I hate it. I Feel robbed every, every time. And we live in California. So people would argue that we actually are getting robbed.
We are, but every time, like I hit a pothole, I'm like, why the hell am I paying taxes? Or like, every time I go to one of the schools that we have actual programming and they don't have books and good resources, I'm like, why the hell am I paying taxes? And that's what pisses me off. But then it's just, it is a, it's a part of living here, living in state. It's like, we've chosen to live in California, which is one of the most expensive places, high tax places to live. But it's like, I also love being able to drive the beach. I love that I live 15 minutes from CBS studios for work. I let you know. I love that. I go to Erewhon and I see one of my favorite TV show writers, and I can say, Hey, you're an inspiration. And you know, all of those things are fueling to me.
You can walk out of Erewhon and go make your own smoothie instead of buying a $15. You just walk in just, just for like the social.
Literally. I was like sometimes and, oh gosh, I love that place, but Ooh.
Oh, it's, it's insane. It's insane. It's actually, I mean,
Prada. Yeah. It's Prada. It's proud of groceries. Yeah.
I'll take that. And sometimes that works. I remember, I remember buying my first pair of like, grown-up heels. I bought Manolo Blahniks after, um, after my first tour and I prepared myself for what would happen at the till they would say a number I would give my credit card and then I would have that many dollars, less dollars. But what I did not prepare myself for was the way that I felt when I saw myself in those shoes. I mean,
And knowing that you bought and they were,
They were, yeah, I did that.
You bought them. It was a tremendous feeling. I felt it when I bought my first actual art, like art and my house, of course. And that is absolutely worth saying no to this or saying no to that. Um, so I hope that everyone listening gets to feel that for themselves to think of something that they think is spectacular to work towards it, to earn it, and then to have it, it is a tremendous feeling. Um, and this app say the name of the app one more time. Cause I hope it sounds so helpful. Okay. We're going to have to have you return and have Chloe and you for money March. This is so exciting. Um, we didn't get to really wrap up this idea about the film, but from the sounds of it, you landed in, um, a recipe of preparedness and like-minded folks who have a similar goal and kind of similar values and ways of working along the way, um, like this kind of zoom out idea. People who are able to step back and look at a big picture. And yet we'll pick up the diamonds with their bare hands because they understand the fine details really, really matter. And I think that that applies what we see on the screen, but also the way that we conduct a rehearsal, like fine tooth details matter. And also the big picture really matters. Are people feeling cared for people feeling heard are, you know, is, is there water here? Like I also think it's important to know your place when you go into anything and that's not to be like, you know, know your place in a condescending way, but know your place. It's extremely helpful. So it's like, if you're going on this movie and your name is not one or two or three on the call sheet, you have to understand you're not the star and that's okay. Be excited that you're a part of something that's great. And if that doesn't make you excited, then you should walk away from the project. Because the reality is, is that number one, two and three on the cost sheet, we're number 28, 55 and 75 at some point as well. And I think that people also, especially for any dancers that want to work in film or television, it is such a collaborative process. It is truly collaboration is it's.
If one link is weak, then the whole, the whole ship can crash. You know? And so I heard this great analogy the other day, it was about a boat and it said, uh, if you're on a cruise ship and one person decided to, uh, put a hole in their room, cause they wanted water. You can't, they can't say, well, it's my room. I just wanted water in my room. It will sink the whole ship. And it's like, how do you look at the whole picture? And I also am a strong believer in like really assess a job. Don't just get excited. Like, oh my God, um, Tina Turner asked me on tour and it's for a year in Eastern Europe, you have to say, okay, how do I feel about being away from my family for a year? How do I feel about Eastern Europe? What is the pay? How do I feel? Does this artist inspire me enough to be with them for a whole year to do this? By the way of Tina Turner called me to do a year, anywhere in the road, I'd go. Just, just Saying just so everyone is clear,
But, but there are artists that I would be like, no, I don't want to be in a room with them for 20 minutes. Their music doesn't inspire me. It makes me unhappy. It disrespects women or I don't like it, you know? And that's okay to say, and it's important to have that discernment, but I would say the success and you know, getting to that place is humility. It's training. And it's showing up and being present. Like if you, you know, love Ava Bernstein's choreography and you want to get to know her, go to her class. Don't you know, say, Hey, I would love to do skeleton crew for you one day. If you're just working on something, it don't say. And then if she calls you and says, Hey, do you want to come in? We're doing skeleton group. Don't let the first question or even thought be, am I getting paid for this? Because now you're doing it for the wrong reasons.
What should the first thought be in your mind? Is this scenario plays out?
Oh, if I am like a big Ava fan, she calls me and I've told her, oh my God, I'm so excited. What time? And where do you need me to bring anything? That's the question. Maybe she needs you to come take notes. Maybe she needs you to have your laptop to cut some music. The question for me, when I am looking, seeking mentorship is how can I contribute to this situation? Do you need me to bring anything? Do you have waters for everybody? I can pick them up. Be helpful, be an asset. How can you contribute? It takes $5. You know, it's a thought. And so I think so many people are like, I deserve, I deserve. And I think social media has made us think like instant gratification and instant I deserve. And this entitlement and it's like, you ain't entitled to nada. Nobody is every breath we take is it is, is a blessing. And we're lucky to take each breath. We're not entitled to anything. People are dying at this moment right now. So it's like approaching it with gratitude. And how can I elevate this situation with the skillset that I have? I'm not going to say, Hey, if I can cut music, if I don't know how to do it, but I can say, Hey, I can take great notes for you. And I'm really good at Excel. These are my skills. How can I help you with this?
And do you expect in this hypothetical situation, future work, do you expect, would you hope for monetary exchange at some point, what is like, help me understand this because we're also talking actual dollar bills and people on the come-up ain't going to get far up without, at some point receiving. Yes. So how does that moment in, in this, in this like offering of self and of talent and of time and of in some cases, actual money in your mind, where does the switch happen? Is it yeah. Period.
I think the switch, I think here's what I think. Um, you don't, you cannot ever grow from a place of desperation. So you also should not be going into this. Let's say, Ava, I love the we're using Ava.
That's what's happening right now. This in my podcast, booth is a photo of Ava.
I've actually know that photo it's blurry right now, but I know that part of the Shanghai, cause I've seen it on the internet.
I love this. Um,
Yeah, I’ve seen the photo of the photo
And I love to talk to about all the things. And so I put her in here because when I talked to her, she asks good questions and I respond honestly. And so she's my reminder of that. Um, carry on ethics are 150%. You want to talk? You want to have, you have an ethic question. You got Ava, you call mama Shula and they're going to, they're ethical. They're they're going to be able to take themselves out of the situation and say, this is right and this is wrong.
Oh, Shula is the greatest everybody's Shula is Ava's mother. She was, it was mom,The silver hair.
Oh, she's a dream. And once she, and one day, one day in true, like high school fashion, even though Eva and I were well into our twenties, um, Shula and Papa doc drove us to the mall where we were going to like, do some shopping, get our eyebrows threaded. I don't know this was during a break in the future sex love show tour. And neither Ava had a place to live. Like we got rid of our apartments to go on tour and I don't even remember, did I have a car? I don't think anyways, we got a ride to the mall. I got my eyebrows done. They picked us up and we sat in the back seat and it was nighttime. And, um, I was like, Sheila, I got my eyebrows done. What do you think? And she curved around the side of her seat, looked at my face and turn it around without saying a single word.
She didn't want to ruin your life.
And so she just didn't say anything so honest. I, I cannot tell you
Barometer of like, I just, I love them. I love that whole family. I love it.
We're back. You get, you get the real focus and that's why we're using Ava.
We're using Ava. So let's say, okay, so let's say I go and I, of course you, it's okay to be hopeful that this person will hire you one day, but it cannot be the only motivation because also you have to see what you're getting. You're getting, even if you're going to do skeleton crew, right? Let's say you're new dancer in LA. You're going to do skeleton crew for Ava for maybe just an idea. She has. She just wants to work some things out in a studio and you're not getting paid. You're getting free training. You're getting a class. She's getting to know you as a dancer. You're getting a private class and you're getting to know her as a choreographer and as a teacher. And that is priceless. Well, of course you could pay hundreds or thousands of dollars to get that one-on-one time with said choreographer. I also think it's really important for young people and dancers to be young is to have money. Um, so you're not desperate. So whether that means, I mean, let me tell you, I have that air job. Every job I've had a job since I was eight years old, I sweep hair at a barber barbershop in DC. I have worked at the mall. I have babysat. I have tutored. I have, um, been a driver for somebody who broke their leg in LA. I have organized closets. I have organized computers. I have done every job you can think of. Guess who has never been broke yours? Truly. I have cocktail waitress. I have waitress. I have no problem and no ego working because I will never go into a situation desperate because that's how you get bitter. And that's how you get angry. Like, I can't believe I did that three hour session with Ava.
Speaker 2 01:02:50 And then she hired for that TV show. And she didn't call me for that show. Well, you don't know the people who have maybe put in 10 to 15 hours who maybe she's known for 10 years and maybe she thought of you for the next job. Or maybe you were too short for the director. And they didn't like how you looked. And that is why you can't be desperate. You can't be bitter. And you can't assume because even if you were like hurt by it, the best thing to do is to call Ava and say, Hey, I saw you did the thing. I know I wasn't cast. What can I work on for the future? What was it? What, what, where am I lacking? Cause then you might even just find out, oh, you're not black, you're black. And they wanted a white girl. Right? And then you're like, oh cool, whatever. You know, whatever it is. And I think that people go in with too much entitlement and expectation of monetary things. And of course we got to make money and you, you got to get your money straight. But a lot of this is give and take. It is, it is art. But even in business, I had internships when I did all the, when I worked in the office for the music video directors, I was interning for free. You know, and as an adult now, who has their own business, I always pay people like, unless you're in high school, but you always get something. You're, you're getting it free tap classes, the time there's a trade. Um, but if you're an adult and you're doing something with me, you're going to get paid because I do value your time. And I am in a place where I tend to pay you. And if I can't pay you on me, keep it real and be like, look, I can't pay you. I could feed you. I'll give you some free dance classes. You want some clothes? I got some clothes in the closet I can help you with. I can help you. And I think again, it's like, how can I be an asset? And not just a taker from this? Because at the end of the day, if you're like a up and coming dancer, you are benefiting more from being in a space with Ava than Ava is getting from you. Let's keep it 100. Like if your up and coming singer, if you get to be in a studio with Beyonce, you're learning, you know, you're, you're getting a masterclass for free. And, and you know, it was like show up early, be the person that's reliable, be the person that brings great energy to the room. And so I think all of that is what culminates, to being able to book a TV show, being able to book a movie, also know that every choreographer, every choreographer, all the choreographers know each other. And you might be bitter talking a bad about somebody to your fellow dancer. And they might be choreographing the next job. And they're going to remember like, Ooh, they were talking trash about the choreographer. Don't want to have them. Cause they might talk trash about me. So it was also like, think about who are your peers, because your peers will be elevating as well
In a perfect world. And when you surround yourself with peers like you and like Chloe, then yes, absolutely. Oh my God, you just filled mysunshine mug.
Thank you. If I go back and I see when I pick one up for you,
Please do, because I have been, I have been told I've been called a joy machine. I've been called the sun array of such amazing. I've always told Chloe. Thank you, Dana. I don't even know her that well, Every time we talked to Chloe, I'm always like, yo, tell me this. Would you die without maud? Like what exactly is the dynamic there? Are you one person? Are you a separated thing? Like I have a lot of questions too, about the business and how working with family is a very specific thing. Um, but let's, I really, truly, I love talking to you. I can talk to you for a very long time. I really, truly, This is part one. I do think having you, um, having you and Chloe back together would be so much fun. It'll complicate even further or scheduling, but it is worth it. I'm all there. Listen, I will noise. Someone is trying to schedule a thing
Any, or while we're on here and looked at me and then quietly walked back up. Got it. Love that.
I love that she knows. Um, okay, so we're calling this part one. Um, we're going to talk more money and more mindset later down the road, but thank you. Thank you so much for these gifts. Um, likewise,
No, you're amazing. And, and just the way that like you two have like looked out for my sister and you know, being on in, in the Heights and all that stuff and I just always find your joy and your kindness and your grounded-ness, you know, like how you said you do the accounts or the only person I know who does that. Um, who's in our, in our industry. Like I'm definitely not that organized, which is why I use that app. Abel, thank God for that because I don't have that capacity, but you're amazing. And I'm so happy that you have this podcast because you're really helping the next generation of dancers because it is a privilege. It is, we are both in very privileged positions of, you know, being able to text Chloe or a text, Tony Testa or text Jilly and Terry who are all or texts Ava and have a dialogue or Jared Grimes and have this. And a lot of people don't have that. And, and the industry is a very like mystical, weird kind of ever changing space. And if you're on the outside of it, it can feel very scary. And then you, and then also people tend to magnify negative. So it's like, oh, Hollywood is fake. And I'm like, I have some of the most amazing people. I know work in Hollywood. Hollywood's not fake. You know? And, and I think you're, you're kind of pulling back that curtain. So
Thank you, my friend, I really, really appreciate that. It is my duty and my nature to share. I really think I love people say sharing is caring. And I think that that is true. And if you don't think that, then you don't have to listen to my podcast.You don't have to listen to it and go be alone on your own eyes. Totally fun for me. It's like when you're, when you're selfish, you don't grow. I believe that like, think about when you, even when you, the act of opening your arms to give a hug, you're welcome. You're welcoming so much goodness into the, your ether. You can't see my arms, but I'm opening my arms and you're, you're welcoming. You're not only, you know, going in for that love with that one person. But you're pulling in all their other love around you. And it's like, you can't hug somebody like this, And this is beautiful. I love this analogy. Let's close here. You are exposing your soft parts. I had a very, I had a great ballet teacher explained that part of the beauty in ballet and the vulnerability in ballet is that the positioning exposes your soft skin, the inside of the thigh, the side of the neck, the underside of the arms. And when you open to hug someone, you are exposing yourself, but you also are getting bigger. You are actively actually physically growing. When you open to embrace, like when you open to give someone a hug, this is what I'm talking about.
I'm writing it down, taking notes. Y'all anybody listen to podcasts. I've been taking notes. I don't know if you've noticed, but I've been taking notes on things
That’s Chloe forever, stealing the notepads that they give us to judge. And she's like, it's still clutching it, writing stuff down. As we're walking back to our room and you are the same,
I'm going to quote you on Twitter. What's going to do you open up to give a hot, you get bigger. You get true. Love makes you big hate makes you small then.
Sure. The end, the end. Thank you so much. I adore you. I will talk to you very soon. I love you.
…
Dana: Well, my friend, what do you think? I think that I would like to apologize for my temper tantrum, my meltdown about quarterly taxes and I vow right here. And right now to solve that riddle for good this year, this is the year I will file quarterly and be confident in my decision to do so. Confident does not mean happy. One point that, um, but I'm going to, I'm going to do that. I'm going to, well, actually take it back. I'm going to either file quarterly confidently or not file quarterly confidently either way. I'm just going to fully commit and be confident in my decision to file quarterly or not. There you have it. I'm just going to do it. Okay. I am super stoked to have both Chloe and Maud weighing back in for Money March this year. And I'm so grateful for mods insights on optimism and the important difference between the bright side and toxic positivity for me, this episode made being the boss of your life. Feel easy and fun. And I hope it did the same for you. Now, if you'll forgive me, I have some thank you cards to write or better yet. I have to go find someone with lovely handwriting to go write some thank you cards for me. Now. Keep it funky. Y'all I'll talk to you soon.
Outro: This podcast was produced by me with the help of many; Music by Max Winnie, logo and brand design by Bree Reetz, and a big thanks to Riley Higgins, our executive assistant and editor, and also massive thanks to you. The mover, who is no stranger to taking action, I will not stand in the way of you taking action. I will not cannot stop you from downloading episodes or leaving a review and a rating. I cannot keep you from visiting thedanawilson.com to join our mailing list. I will not ban you from my online store for spending your hard earned money on the cool merch and awesome programs that await you there. And of course, if you want to talk with me, work with me and make moves with the rest of the words that move me community, I will 100% not stop you. Visit thedanawilson.com to become a member and get a peek at everything else I do that is not a weekly podcast. Keep it funky, everyone.
