145. Keep Going Till You’re Fired with Kevin Maher

October 12, 2022 01:04:31
145. Keep Going Till You’re Fired with Kevin Maher
Words That Move Me with Dana Wilson
145. Keep Going Till You’re Fired with Kevin Maher

Oct 12 2022 | 01:04:31

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Show Notes

This is one for the books! Yup! The one and only Kevin Maher and I are getting nostalgic, a little bit catty, and a lotta bit deep this week. We dig into managing difficult personalities on set, we dish out some seriously cringeworthy industry horror stories, and we talk about knowing when to quit… Which, for Kevin, is almost never. Please enjoy this conversation with Kevin Maher.

 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 0 00:00:00 Welcome to Words That Move Me, the podcast where movers and shakers like you get the information and inspiration you need to navigate your creative career with clarity and confidence. I am your host Dana Wilson. And I move people. I am all about the tools and techniques that empower tomorrow's leaders to make the work of their dreams and live a full life while doing it. So whether you're new to the game or transitioning to your next echelon of greatness, you're in the right place. Hello. Hello my friend. Welcome towards that move me. I'm Dana. I'm stoked that you're here. I wish I could squeeze you. I am in a very loving and excited, um, sherry kind of mood right now. I'm wanting to share my enthusiasm in the form of a hug. Podcast's not great for that. Um, I think I'm mostly excited because my guest on the episode today on the episode who says that my guest today is one of my favorite teachers ever. And he is a bright and hysterical, very, very smart human being. Um, Kevin Maher is joining me today. We get nostalgic, we talk a little bit of S h I T, which reminds me adult language warning. Speaker 0 00:01:23 Is that the sound of adult language? I think it is. It is now, um, DJ Club Horn for adult language for this episode. But I promise you it is very worth it and warranted in, in this case. Um, but do ear phone it, phone it if you have, uh, little ones around. Um, okay. Anyways, before we swear a lot and get into the really, really good stuff with Kevin, it is time for wins. We start every episode with wins, and this week I am celebrating getting to spend some time with my wonderful big sister. Shout out, Ari. Hello. I love you so much. Um, Ari came to visit me in la. We ate some good food. We drank some good champagne, we did some really good shopping. And, um, bonus, she helped me clean my house. And when I say that y'all, I mean like baseboards, like clean my house. Speaker 0 00:02:25 Um, I've always thought that she was the hostess with the mostess, but she has now proven to also be the, the, the guest. The guest with the bestest. Yeah, I like that. I tried, I tried. Anyways, um, I, Oh wow. I'm just now recalling one of my favorite podcast episodes is with my sister Adrian Wilson, Doctor Adrian Wilson as a guest. I believe that was episode 72. 72, I think 72. Pretty sure 72, 90 9% sure. Episodes 72. Um, go check that out. So, so good. Um, yeah, there it is. House bestest, bestest house guest. Yeah, I like that. Thank you sis. Love you so much. All right. That's me. That is what I am celebrating this week. Uh, now you go, what is going well in your world? Speaker 1 00:03:29 Yay. Speaker 0 00:03:31 Congratulations, my friend. Keep winning. So stoked for you. All right, now let's get into it. Today, the fabulous Kevin Maher and I are talking me today. Kevin and me. Oh, my mom is gonna hate me. Maher and Kevin Maher and I, Kevin Maher and I are talking about managing difficult personalities, specifically on set personalities. Uh, and we've got some very cringeworthy, industry hoarder stories to, to back that up. Uh, we talk about knowing when it's time to quit and he digs into some super great advice on how slash when to introduce and reintroduce yourself. I needed to hear this. You need to hear this. Get ready, get set cuz this is great. Let's go. Enjoy the one and only Kevin Maher. <laugh> off to a really strong start. Kevin Maher, welcome to the podcast, asked <laugh> <laugh> jokes all day. All day. I wish you all could see what I'm seeing right now as Kevin and I take advantage of a little screen time with each other. It's been a long time. How are you? Speaker 2 00:04:56 I'm good. Um, I am still living like I'm, um, a 20 year old, but I'm in my forties. Okay, Speaker 0 00:05:04 <laugh>. All right. Congratulations, by the way, on being married. Speaker 2 00:05:08 Thank you. Yeah, I feel like I'm starting to be an adult. I got married. Speaker 0 00:05:12 Okay, good. Yes. Pays yet or? Yeah. Speaker 2 00:05:17 Yeah. Oh, wow. Pay taxes. Um, uh, this summer was like, everything that was meant to happen in 2020 kind of happened this summer. Okay. So the wedding has been postponed for like two years. It finally happened, and then we went to Europe for our honeymoon during peak tourist travel season, which I never do, but I'm so excited to go to Europe again. So we went like right in the heat wave and, uh, is amazing. Speaker 0 00:05:44 Ah, I've been itching for Europe. I really, I I was saying I haven't left the country in so long, and then I remembered that that was not true cuz I went to Canada like three weeks ago. Um, but yeah, no, I mean, Canada Speaker 2 00:05:59 Doesn't count. Speaker 0 00:06:00 They're they're, they're different. Speaker 2 00:06:01 They're neighbors. Speaker 0 00:06:03 They're neighbors. They're, Speaker 2 00:06:04 It doesn't count if you go to your neighbors, like if you go to your neighbor's house for dinner, you're not going out. Speaker 0 00:06:10 <laugh>. Wow. You just Speaker 2 00:06:11 Go, you just going next door. Canada's next door. Speaker 0 00:06:15 You live in soundbites. Kevin, I'm very lucky to have you as a podcast guest, <laugh>. Um, and you're not gonna get away without this first part of the podcast. Um, it's tradition here. You're going to introduce yourself other than, um, that you are, uh, a grown up child. Um, what would you like us to know about you? Speaker 2 00:06:41 Okay, Well, um, my name is Kevin Lawrence Maher. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. But my dad is the only one who spells Lawrence with the W and then the rest of us have a, the u or he has the u and I have the w duh. Anyways, um, he's Irish and like he changed his name when they came to America, the generation before to make it easier cuz America's stupid. So they had to make it easier. And my mom is Mexican and Native American and French and Spanish. So she's brown, he's white here I am. Um, I was a straight A student. I went to private school my whole life, which is probably why I'm gay and <laugh>. And, um, yeah. And um, then when I graduated high school with like in a college prep course type thing, I had like an internship laid out and college scholarships laid out and I said, I want to go to New York and dance and you can't stop me. So I started dancing very late and mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, those are things people don't know. I started dancing late. People don't know what my ethnicity is. I was actually born in Hollywood at Kaiser on Sunset, which is super weird because I don't connect to Hollywood from my childhood. Speaker 0 00:08:08 Like the part of Hollywood. Speaker 2 00:08:10 Yeah, like the Disney part. Yeah, right. Like the real, the real part. Yes. Where it's not Silver Lake yet, it's not cool. It's still just gross Hollywood. It's right there. And um, yeah, that's where I was born and then I grew up in the suburbs, but I don't, I just remember growing up, like in the cute neighborhood in the suburbs, we had a pool and I was well behaved and, uh, just played puzzles and did all the nerdy things and, um, yeah. And I was just such an introvert and like a smart little kid growing up and, um, happy and chubby and ready to uh, you know, like, have a good time. Speaker 0 00:08:48 Uh, why do I feel like there's a and then coming, is that the New York part? Speaker 2 00:08:52 And then, Yeah, no, I, well, when I moved to New York, I got like a slap in the face, like that's when I lived like $20 a week for food and, you know, um, figure out how to do things. And I worked like two jobs. Um, I worked at a record store and then, uh, the Metropolitan Museum of Art, like gift shop. So I just stayed in anything artsy. Speaker 0 00:09:15 I love it in there. Speaker 2 00:09:17 Yeah. The one in Rock Bar Center. So I would go like, look at the tree and be sad like, I'm not home, but I don't want to go cause I gotta make it <laugh>. And then, uh, and then I made some dance friends, um, in New York and made a little community there and we supported each other. Uh, one of my friends helped me become a waiter so I could stop working a lot of jobs and just do one crappy job to make more money. And Speaker 0 00:09:45 We, we love less is more <laugh>. Speaker 2 00:09:48 Yeah. I worked at a sports restaurant and I don't know anything about sports and I hustled my ass off in there. And, um, then I started dancing and I was like, I'll be a waiter if I have to, but I'm gonna go back to LA and figure it out and just try and dance. Amazing. From 18 to 21 was like a slap in the face and a crash course, wake up and figure it out. Speaker 0 00:10:14 Like super steep learning curve at life and at your, um, your craft. Speaker 2 00:10:20 Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Yeah. All and just eight, like Yeah. All of the above. At that time it was like the real accelerated course. <laugh>. Speaker 0 00:10:28 Right. I love you. You've always been accelerated. Um, so an accelerated learner and liver and many things. Um, but back up though. It is so interesting to me that you wanted to dance, but felt that you needed to leave LA to do it since that's so counter the story for most people. Was there, was it Broadway that attracted you? Was it, what, what was it that made you think you could do it there and not here? Speaker 2 00:10:56 I think the two just kind of, uh, paralleled each other. I think I wanted, I knew I wanted to leave for a long time because everybody in my family and they all stayed close by and did the same thing and stayed local. And all of my friends had their paths laid out in a similar way. And I've always had an itch to go to New York. I think I'd still have gone there even if I wasn't in love with dance, I would've just found whatever I was in love with there. Um, but then, you know, dance was like, like I was gonna go to college there and I registered at a community college and my financial, I didn't come through before the semester started, so it means I'd have to have some money up front and I didn't want to ask my parents mm-hmm. <affirmative>, so I just didn't go to school. Um, and that's kind of opened the doors for time wasting <laugh> and money making. So I was like, Speaker 0 00:11:52 I love perspective. Speaker 2 00:11:53 Yeah. So that's kind of where like I was allow able to fall in love with dance full time because I had time to do it and I was, you know, a lost teenager. So it was easier in that way. Speaker 0 00:12:06 Harder in every other way. Speaker 2 00:12:09 <laugh>. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Speaker 0 00:12:11 Mm-hmm. Speaker 2 00:12:11 <affirmative>. So yeah. But once I got there, I've always been in love with Broadway. I saw Fantom the Opera at, in sixth grade and I thought it was like the most realistic thing I've ever seen. I like, oh, it's, it makes sense. It's real. I believe it. And then I became infatuated with like all kinds of musicals. I used to love Miss Saigon. I didn't even know what it was about because I grew up with all Filipinos and Leis. Solan is the queen. And, um, I just was like blown away by her voice. And then, um, I just, I, I did like, I would stand in line in New York for the, the free tickets or the cheap tickets, like the lottery. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So I would go watch rent, but I would stand in line and do the lottery. So you got $20 seats and I'd go to all the plays or shows that I could, I would stand in line for hours outside of Saturday Night Live to just watch the musical guests and Yes. Yeah. I just took advantage of New York. Speaker 0 00:13:08 You're giving me nostalgia right now. I'm thinking of all the, all the times as a young person on fall break or, Uh, no. Over the summer, usually I would go to Nationals in New York. Right. And on the, in the event that we had an off afternoon, we went to trl, we went to go stand and like hopefully get inside to trl, but we like stood at the bottom and we're like doing the look at me thing. It was, that was in Speaker 2 00:13:36 My restaurant was in Times Square, the one I waited at. So like a lot of times going to my shift, they were filming the TRL spots. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And so one time they were like, Hey will you announced this video? And I was like, Sure, which one is it? And they were like, uh, I think it's like pretty fly for a white guy or something. Is that what that's that video's called? Yes. And then yes, so I was like, next up and there's like a clip that out there that existed me giving the, the lead in for that video on TRL before I even was in the world of, you know, commercial stuff. Speaker 0 00:14:08 Music videos and commercial stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Speaker 2 00:14:10 But it was next door to me. I could watch the dancers perform from the window and I would just be like, Oh my gosh. Like look at those two dancers. Cause that's all that fits, you know, right there <laugh>. Right, right. Yeah. Speaker 0 00:14:23 What years would that have been? I'm so wondering if, if our footsteps overlapped there. Speaker 2 00:14:28 Maybe like 99. Maybe 99. Oh yeah. I know. I lived in New York in like, I moved in 98 and I moved back to LA in like 2001. So there's only three year span. Yeah. Speaker 0 00:14:39 This is very possible. I was like, you know, hardcore competition kid until 2004 when I graduated. So 99 through 2004. I was like in it. I bet we did cross paths. I love to think about that. Um, it have been fun for you, Speaker 2 00:14:54 Like going from Oh yeah. Being from Denver and then going to Denver. I or for Colorado. Yeah. Yeah. But going to good memory. Yeah. During summer, like Yep. What a difference. Speaker 0 00:15:05 Yes. And I actually very fortunate, my mom, in addition to being a competition kid who traveled occasionally for that sort of thing, my mom was for like 40, I think more than 40 years, a flight attendant for United Airlines. So we got to travel mostly, almost entirely for free. So nationals was possible because of that. But we also, um, I'm, I'm Greek at least a little bit. And I went to Greece when I was 12, left the country for the first time at nine. Very lucky to get to experience the bigger, broader world as a smaller person. And those trips to New York in the summertime became like, yes. So, so, so special. But I mean I've, I had have probably done that eight times as a young person, so it sort of became familiar. That's cool. Did you Speaker 2 00:16:04 Ever fly with your mom while she was a flight attendant? Or is that's not possible? Speaker 0 00:16:08 Yes, it is possible and I have done it. I think what usually happened was she would have to be in uniform. Um, sometimes in case the only seat available was a jump seat. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So, uh, I know that she has like definitely been working, but usually she'd just be like in her outfit sitting on the jump seat and I'd be like back in coach, like in my panny hose <laugh> cuz that's how, that's how flying standby used to go. You had to be dressed as if you were an employee. I remember my sister and I had to wear pandy hose. My brother had to wear like laced up, not sneak. Sneakers were not allowed. Jeans were not allowed. Um, anything with holes in it was not allowed. And now I am looking at the things that people travel in like my sir or my lady. Your entire midriff is exposed. Doesn't that feel uncomfortable when you sit on that cold ass leather seat? I don't get it. But anyways, those were the olden days. Speaker 2 00:17:07 <laugh>, when the word pantyhose comes up, your name isn't the first one to hop up right next to it. <laugh> Speaker 0 00:17:15 Who is outta curiosity? Cause I'll tell you, mine is Sarah Palin for some reason I don't why? My god, that's a woman that 100% wears pans every day. <laugh> 100%. Speaker 2 00:17:27 That's Speaker 0 00:17:28 Great. Uh, so, okay, another time that we've overlapped to get us back on track is last week. Was it last week? Time is an illusion. Um, we were both panelists on the Amda um, commercial dance q and a little panel conversation, uh, you and I, Amanda Grind and Jar Reese. And I was like sitting and looking at your face talking in the square. And I was like, how have I not, how have I done such a grand disservice to my community by not having you on the podcast before this moment? So I'm stoked that you're here and I want to revisit a few of the things that we talked about in that q and a, cuz you had some a plus contributions to that conversation. Um, the first one was this idea that like the greatest skill you could possibly possess and the skill that you cannot possibly learn in a dance class or there aren't any specific style classes that teach you this thing is how to manage cuz navigate is one thing, but how do you manage personalities? Speaker 0 00:18:46 And, and, uh, somebody asks you this question that was like, what's the hardest job you have ever done? And your answer to this question was, I, I would love for you to share it, but it wasn't hard because there were 150 dancers or because it was, you know, you had to shoot it outside and it was 110 degrees or because you had to do a three minute number in two hours. It wasn't hard because that, it was hard because personalities. So mm-hmm. <affirmative> take the floor. And then I would love to hear how you learned, maybe it was New York, maybe it was private schools. How did you learn to manage the type of personalities that we encounter in our worlds? Go Speaker 2 00:19:28 <laugh>. Okay, well, um, so like, going a little backwards, my family is Irish and Mexican, so they're drinkers and they're loud <laugh> and seeing all the personalities growing up, I just observed everyone. And I knew that in order to get the best out of somebody, I had to go on their terms. So I learned this skill early on, like beyond other people's terms, if you wanna get the best out of them or you can go head to head <laugh>, you know, so early on I picked that up. Um, this particular job, like is kind, was kind of on the path of, um, where I wouldn't say no to anything because I wasn't raised that way. And anything that's presented to me I thought is meant to be. And so it was a little tricky to, um, at that point say no to anything, especially if it looks like, and it's dressed like something I want. And one of my goals was to choreograph for this blonde bombshell who was an icon. And um, I don't know if I signed a nda, so we'll just kind of hop around her name in some fun ways. Well, she just had a big moment in time where she said f U world and um, shaved her head and then she had to shoot a video and it was the week after and everyone was all on her business cuz public meltdowns hadn't happened to, you know, uh, stereotypical princesses like her mm-hmm. <affirmative> and, Speaker 0 00:21:00 Uh, not in such a big way anyways. Speaker 2 00:21:02 Yeah. Not in a big way. They happen all the time, but like, she can't get out of the public, so she's like, Let me just, you know, shock them. So cool. I was like, Yeah, I get it. I shake my head all the time, or I dye my hair, I get a tattoo, I'll, you know, do something. But unfortunately she doesn't have the freedom. So it, it wasn't anything crazy to me. So when they asked me to, uh, be on this video, but, um, not as a choreographer because, um, she just didn't feel like she needed one and she wanted to do it herself. And that was where her energy was going towards. And I was like, Yeah, absolutely. I'll just sit in the corner until you need me. But when I first got there, they were like, We don't know if she's coming or not, but we're just gonna start the video. Speaker 2 00:21:44 We're gonna start shooting the video. And I didn't even share this part on the amda panel, but, um, the director is really, um, like outspoken and loud and not my type of personality. Um, very like reckless and, um mm-hmm. <affirmative> reckless and like mm-hmm. <affirmative> and LA director. And, um, he was like, Hey, I know you're here what you're supposed to do while, while she's not here, let's, let's make some shit happen. And I was like, Okay, cool. Um, he's like, There's, there's four dancers and there's, um, some mirrors over there and give them some choreography. Let's shoot it. I'm like, okay. So I give them choreography and then like I, and um, they started a couch and I knew the girls and they were like, so happy I was there. I was happy they were there. And then they moved to the mirror and dance. And like the first shot, he's like, What the fuck is this? I need more energy. I don't, I don't need dancing. I need dancing. And I'm like, Yeah, I got you. Like, I don't know what he's saying. <laugh>. So Speaker 0 00:22:45 This is, this is such a great example of some of the feedback you are likely to get in this position on a project like that. I don't need dancing, I need dancing. Speaker 2 00:22:57 What, what exactly do you mean? Like, don't bore people with their questions. Just say yes and figure it out. Make a choice. If it doesn't work, try the and try the other choice. Keep going until you're fired. Whatever, you know, it's just a video. So <laugh>, I was like, okay, hey ladies, let's start off thrashing and then let's run to the mirror and then let's cut the choreography. And when we get to the, the mirror, act like you're getting dressed for an eight. And then when the beat changes put back in the choreography and let's see what happens. They were like, Okay. And then they did it and he's like, Yeah, that's what I'm looking for. And I was like, Oh my God, thank God. So that worked. That was part one. Then part two was, um, a party Speaker 0 00:23:34 Scene. That's the Speaker 2 00:23:34 Warmup. That was the warmup for this job. Part two was a, a party scene. And I've never in my life, like he, he's walking around the party with the, the steady cam guy, him and he wants me to walk with them. And he's like, Stop me when you see someone you know, or someone that's worth being on, on camera. And I was like, Oh shit, this doesn't sound good. I'm like, Okay. So we start walking through and he's talking shit to the people while the music's on, while they're dancing. He's like, What are you, You're trash. Look at you. You shouldn't even be here. What is that? What is that move? Oh my God, somebody fixed their face. Look at, And it was like four minutes of the most cringeworthy language. And I think that's his way of getting people to get riled up, I guess. Speaker 2 00:24:23 I don't know. I've never experienced this and I've never experienced it after. And, and like you would see either people crack and look at him like, who the fuck? Or you would see people, um, like, like not be bothered and keep going, or you'd see people change and maybe do what they think he's thinking of or asking for. So all three of these ways I was like, this is interesting and I'm gonna observe it instead of just allowing like the cringe to overwhelm me. And, um, that was really hard to do <laugh>. So I, he like cut and then I was like, um, the people I know are in the back, I'm gonna pull them forward. I think you'll be happier. And he's like, Do it. And I'm like, God. So I like pull my friends forward and then the, the shot calmed down. Then they're just waiting for the artist to show up. Speaker 2 00:25:13 She finally shows up. It's like 2:00 AM um, <laugh>, one of the, one of the dancers. Well, okay, so she pulls the dancers in the trailer to teach them some choreography. One of the dancers of my friend, she says, I like your bag. Give me your bag. She's like, No, it's my bag. She's like, Yeah, but I want it <laugh>. She's like, No, that's, that's not how this gonna work. My, yeah. And, and then, and my friend's telling me and I'm like, Oh, maybe, maybe she is like not in a good place. Like she doesn't understand boundaries or something. I don't know. So all of this is happening on the, on that night. And um, it was very weird <laugh>. And then the dancers came back to me and said, This is what she taught us. So I like toned down the triple pirouette and I mm-hmm. Speaker 2 00:26:01 <affirmative> changed the transitions for certain things that were like super jolty. But I kept the essence of what she was doing. So basically I camouflaged and cleaned and fixed her own movement mm-hmm. <affirmative> to make it what would make me like tolerable, make me feel tolerable, I guess you could say, or bearable. And then it was like 4:00 AM or 5:00 AM and the sun was coming up and the only place to shoot was the bathroom. And it was cramped and it was tiled floors and they were slipping and it was extremely hard. But, you know, I was looking at it like, if she put her heart into these moves, I don't wanna take that away. I just kind of wanna make her look at her her own moves and go, Oh, I made that up. That's cute. You know? And so I wanted to like, I wanted to like help her feel better and that was my main like way of looking at it, that helped me survive for the night. Speaker 2 00:26:56 And uh, I ended up meeting Marina Tona on set that day, who's like the world's best costume designer and she does all the TV shows and dance shows and projects. Yeah. And we connected from them cuz we were both like, wow, this is really not for us, but also we're grateful to be here. And it's just a part of our journey and managing all these personalities. Um, even though like it could be exhausting and it could feel, uh, like, it's not for you or you know, this not my type of person or party. You can still come out of there with a few good things. Like Marina's one of the best things to come out of that, like that connection and mm-hmm. <affirmative> <affirmative>. I got to work with this artist again several times later. And so I chalked that up and I'm glad I was the one there in that position. Speaker 2 00:27:46 Cuz if it was somebody else, they may have quit. Or somebody who can't look at her from a compassionate perspective and say like, Oh, these moves are trash, let's change 'em. Instead, I'm like, mm-hmm. <affirmative> the only amount of energy and, and, and stuff that she has control over is, is very minimal. So if choreography is one of them, I wanna help make her feel good about that. And so, and even the crazy director, I was like, Mm, the way to talk to him is by being blunt, short, no feelings and don't take anything personal. And then I found a way to speak to him. Like, I would say like, um, they need to stand sideways. And then he'd be like, Okay, instead of, Oh, excuse me. Um, can I offer you some perspective? You know, because you don't know how to talk. Speaker 0 00:28:33 It might be possible for them to, Yeah, maybe, maybe we could consider an option where they Yeah. Speaker 2 00:28:38 Yeah. And sometimes people, people love that. But like, this guy was like a, a like a motorcycle driving, like hardcore rage, um, type of personality. And I stay away from those people. Like, that's not really my, like aggressive and, and bold and loud. So I had to find ways to do that. I had to find ways to separate my ego and help someone who, you know, uh, didn't even know I was there or didn't even know I was helping them. And, um, that was like a real test for me to go, Oh, um, I don't wanna be in that situation again. But so I need to kind of make sure the jobs I accept have more, um, mutual parameters and a mutual relationship. Um, cause then as you go further in your career, you're like, I really just wanna be where I'm wanted, Not where I still have to prove myself. But at that time, I was definitely still proving myself. And that taught me a lot. Speaker 0 00:29:39 Kev, that is tremendous cringy is just the beginning of it. Wow. Speaker 2 00:29:46 Whoa. I was a cringe fest. And, um, I think I was meant to be the person for that festival. Yeah. <laugh>. Because yeah. I, yes, I have a lot of patience and, um, and, Speaker 0 00:29:58 And flexibility. And you're a person that at, at least in my eyes, you are prepared to work really, really hard and willing to completely release mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And that is such, you know, you have to know when to deploy each, obviously. But I see you as having both of those in spades, like very good at releasing and then also very good at down to the, like, the mathy mathy detail of what mm-hmm. <affirmative> kind of things could be, should be, can be. Um, so yeah, I agree with you. I do think you're the exact person for that job, and I am sorry that that happened to you and to everyone. Um, one of, one of my favorite things, a lesson I learned or uh, a thought that I have, um, borrowed from my executive assistant, Ms. Riley Higgins. She says, it's good for the plot. Speaker 0 00:30:53 Yeah. This moment. Not good for us right now, but really good for the plot in, in the long run. Whoa. Um, so yeah. Okay. I love that it is important for people to hear what is possible when they actually, like, you know, we all think that like, Oh, if I could just be booked, then everything would be great. Right? Or if I could, you know, if I could be doing music videos, then I'd be, I'd, I'd, you know, That'd be it. That's all I want. Until you find yourself on that music video and you're like, Wait, yeah, sorry jk, this is my life. Um, I was on another panel this morning, a q and a and somebody asked me like, Was there a moment that you can remember that made you decide you needed to get involved in some advocacy type, you know, type work, The dancer's alliance, the choreographer guild, the things like that. And I was like, actually, yes. And I have never, I don't think I've talked about this story on the podcast before, but I danced in a, a hip hop quote, heavy air quote music video for a rapper whose name I can't even remember. Um, but Speaker 2 00:32:03 Let's make one Speaker 0 00:32:04 Up. You know, it wa uh, uh, actually I can remember her name, but I don't wanna say it. Why Wilson? Just call it what it is. Okay. The artist's name was Baby Doll. Okay. And that's just what, that's what she went by. And we shot in Sacramento. We had to get ourselves there, which was like so little old me who didn't understand her California geography. I was like, That'll be fine. It was not fine. That was insane. Um, and once we arrived there, there were no, there was no dancer holding and there was no changing room. So we were asked to change clothes in our cars and someone, you know, the, the, the artist's camp, like she rolled with a bunch of dudes, Uhhuh ha had had their phones out filming us change in our cars like from like sneaky, like from around around the back of other cars, like trying to film us changing in our vehicles. And I was like, Oh, 100%, 100% unacceptable. And I, I would like for that. I would like for no one to have to deal with that. Um mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So yeah, that was, that was my cringes moment. But oof, you might have trumped me there because it's like one thing on top of another and there's always, actually, here's a great question. Have you ever quit? Like, have there have, has it ever gotten to be one too many thing and you've been like, Yeah, this is no longer, this is no longer my job. Speaker 2 00:33:33 I quit. Yes. Um, but not, not, um, I've never quit. Um, during the process I've quit before the process started. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I got hired to do a video for a female rapper and mm-hmm. <affirmative>, they asked for choreography in advance to see if it's the right tone. So, and I sent like a little something and the person who works for her, like in the music industry, everyone has jobs, but they don't work the same way. Like a man. Some managers are creative, some day to day people. Like, I think your job when you like represent an artist is to kind of translate what they're trying to say to the people who speak regularly. Like regular communication skills. And then, and, but what she did was just copy and paste what the artist was saying and the artist was like, What the fuck does he not know that this is supposed to be fun? Speaker 2 00:34:34 I just want to have fun. This doesn't look like fun. This looks like work. It's like I see something there, like maybe this one, but tell him to stop like cheating the camera by pushing it in and out and just keep it flat. And I want more fun and I do see something, but this isn't what I want. And I'm like, Thank you for the Okay. Copy and paste. Um, what does she want, what does fun mean for her? Cuz you work with her. I don't, She's like, Hey, just tr just do you know, just do you, it's gonna be fine. And then so I do another video, Speaker 0 00:35:03 Uhhuh Speaker 2 00:35:03 And I made it as easy and fun and she wrote back like, I'm not fucking Beyonce, I'm not JLo, I'm not Brittany. What the fuck is this? I'm my own. I do. And I was like, Wow, she's crazy. And um, then she was like, I just, I just don't know why he's so serious. So I was like, Oh my God. Um, and then my agent and the person who works for her were like, I think it's better if you just show up and work with her in person. And that's when I was like, I've already had two strikes. I think she, I don't know her, she doesn't know me. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So we're, I don't think going in person is gonna be any better. It's gonna be more of this. So I'm gonna back out because no one is translating for her. Like, I'm not, I'm not, I don't understand what she's saying. And now I've not put in work before I'm even hired mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And so I was like, I'd actually, yeah. I was like, and I changed my flight to like do this video and um, so I made them pay for my flight change and I quit <laugh>. Speaker 0 00:36:07 Wow. Kevin, another really great, really difficult to navigate story. You are a pro at this. I think you should have a podcast Speaker 2 00:36:18 <laugh> how to quit, How to quit Gracefully, <laugh> Speaker 0 00:36:22 Well, Or like how to bend or how to, Like what was your, um, how to be on like when to be on their terms and when to stand by horse. Yeah. Like that is a master skill that you only learn from experience and you of that you have a lot my friend. So I'm not shocked that you are a pro at navigating those challenges these days, but whoa. Um, okay, another question that came up on that q and a, Uh, this was kind of my least favorite type of question because I really love the question that kind of stumps you. Like the person being asked it, like, Oh, I've never been asked that before. Hold on, let me think about it. I love those. Um, but somebody asked like, what advice would you give to people in our position? Like people on the come up And I was like, Well, if you have 153 hours, you can listen to my, to my podcast. Speaker 0 00:37:26 Um, but you, you told them a little tip that you had about introducing yourself to people. And I would love for you to share that as well, because I am a person whoof, I'm, I'm becoming better at this, but I struggle with names. I'm terribly insecure about it. I over introduce myself even still, because I assume that people don't, I I assume that people are as bad with names as I am. And people are always like, Dude, I know who you are. And I'm like, I'm sorry, I, okay, but who are you? Like I, it really is an uncomfortable thing. So give us your helpful hints about, um, being memorable and, and introducing yourself. Speaker 2 00:38:08 <laugh>. I think if you go into like these things, knowing it's uncomfortable, it makes you a little more comfortable. Like if you, and if you, and if you always like take the low road, like the nerdy embarrassed stoner route instead of the polished and smart memory route, it's a little easier to handle. And I meet people all the time from teaching years and years and like, I think the best story is, um, like someone in New York on the street was like, Hey, do you remember me? I took your class 10 years ago. I was in the back wearing black and I look, could you not? They said that. And I was like, Sorry, I don't, but like, things like that. I'm like, Wow, if they're holes, are you kidding me? <laugh>. Yeah. Like it, I get, I get that a lot or like, I was wearing stripes, but the best one was I was wearing, I was in the back wearing black and I was like, impossible. Speaker 0 00:39:01 I was the least, I was the least memorable person in the room. Do you remember me? This is his test. Speaker 2 00:39:06 I guess they don't think that they were the least memorable <laugh>. So they were like, they or they were probably like, I was the best one and I looked good in my black outfit. He must remember me. Right. Meanwhile. Right, right, right, right, right. What <laugh>? So wow. After that I was like, okay, I need to figure out how to, like, when you start an industry, you know who everybody is and nobody knows you. So you have to be humble enough to like introduce yourself so many times that the person gets sick of it. Like I do, I do that, I do that all the time with, um, Paula Abdul over the last like five years, 10 years <laugh>. And I'm like, Paula, hi. I treat her like grandma, Right? And I'm like, Hi Paula, it's me, Kevin Maher. And this last time she's like first Speaker 0 00:39:50 Name, last name. I love that. Speaker 2 00:39:51 Yeah. She goes, Kevin, please stop fucking saying your name when you say hi to me. I know who you are. I love what you do. Stop introducing yourself. You make me feel so weird. And I was like, Oh my God, I just think that you're a pul. Like you don't know me. We've never worked together and I see you at far few. So I'm always just gonna, you know, say hi, You're, you're the, the important one in this relationship, you know? And she's like, shut up. And I, I wanna get to that point with everyone where they're mad at me for saying, saying my name. And that's, that's always the goal with people. Like, um, I know people's dancing. I a lot of the time the problem is that I know them when they're sweaty and moving, but I don't know what, when they look good and they're still so people will be like, Hey. Speaker 2 00:40:35 And I'm like, Who the fuck are you? You look gorgeous. And they're like, I take your class for religiously for 10 years. And I'm like, Oh, I'm so sorry. Can you sweat and start dancing? Maybe I'll recognize you. Like I don't, I don't know, like I'm looking at bodies, not individuals when I'm teaching and I'm giving my most truest self away during those moments. So people mm-hmm <affirmative> connect with me authentically and then I don't give that part of me away regularly. It's in class or we're close. Um, so a lot of people feel close in that sense. Um, and then I don't know them. And then they can either go, it's okay, or they can double down and explain further or they could get mad and that's fine. All of them are fine. Cuz none of that is any of my business and it has nothing to do with me. Speaker 2 00:41:21 So. Right. The best thing for anyone to do is to like double down, take the low road. Because the worst that could happen is if you say hi, um, my name's Dana Wilson. They'll be like, I already know you, you, but if you try a different route, it could backfire. Or if you, and if you don't know their names, you could say like, like I'm always saying like, I remember you because you were wearing this, or I remember you because your energy was good, but I, I'm not even confident what your name is. Or sometimes I'll say, I think there's a w in your name <laugh> or I'll say, Right, Speaker 0 00:41:54 Am I close? Speaker 2 00:41:56 Yeah. And anything like that makes people laugh or, um, yeah like, um, I was going to yoga and the guy at the elevator was like, this is like yesterday. He's like, Are you Kevin? I'm like, Yeah. He's like, um, oh my gosh, I'm actually really good with names and faces. And I was like, okay, this is a different approach cuz he's now Wow. Congratulating himself first. So I was like, <laugh>, okay, this is cool. And I was like, Okay, well where would you are? I remember you from like, where would we know each other? And then he's like, Speaker 0 00:42:25 We do, we know each other. Speaker 2 00:42:26 Yeah. He's like, My name is this and I used to do this. And I'm like, Oh my God, I totally remember you now that you've said that. Wow. How do, this is wild. It's been like 10 years. He's like a keyboard player for a, a group that I work with and he was on tour with them, but this was like 10, 15 years ago. And um, it was very cool that approach to first say, Hey, I know who you are and mm-hmm <affirmative> and this is me. Instead of like, waiting for someone to recognize you or you know, somebody, you know, you've met them 15 times. You know, like it's never a good thing to have expectations and it's never a good thing to uh, you know, um, have your ego there. Like they should know you, especially when you work in a celebrity world, they meet so many people and um, it's very cool when people do remember you and it's very cool to take the, that first road to be like, Hi, I'm Kevin, or you know, whatever the scenario is. Um, it's just, that's my, that's my tactic. Like to take the embarrassing, nerdy, put all the, put all the awkward stuff on me and I'll take it. Right. Instead of like trying to guess or trying to remember or trying to go down like this lane that is a waste of energy. It's better to start from scratch Speaker 0 00:43:45 Or trying to like wait it out until someone else says it. Or like, I, I mean every, every trick in the book I have tried it, but I think, I think the, like the humble down bit is super, super smart. But there's also this like package it with like humble down a but package it with context that's sticky. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> like I took your class at edge, you have to know how many hundreds of people have taken your class at edge. But I took your class at edge with Chili and Meyers because she lived on my same street and because she's so freaking good. You probably don't remember me cuz I don't get past her when I'm watching dance class. But I, I had had red hair at the time and I loved wearing Air Jordans and I don't know if you remember me or not, but I remember your classes for being blabbity bty blah and the end. Speaker 0 00:44:41 And maybe I've even bundled a compliment in there, which I have been criticized for over being over complimentary. Um, but not ingenuine in my compliments like I mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I give genuine, I don't say things that I don't mean. I'm very good at complimenting people and meaning it, uh, but I think I'm kind of like, maybe like Jimmy Fallon in that way where I think everybody's awesome and everything was the funniest and the best and it, it's sort of, it's kind of my default mode. But that's how, that's how I do it when I approach people that I think might not remember is with the context of the situation where we met, um, probably some healthy dose of humility mm-hmm. <affirmative> or borderline self-deprecation and, and like my fingers crossed and then I try to give people the grace for that as well. But I have been surprised lately at the, I actually was just talking about this the other day at the shamelessness of the, like you must know who I am that I get from students that I get from other people on the job. Speaker 0 00:45:50 Like people very rarely introduce themselves to me mm-hmm. <affirmative> or remind me, they're like, Hey, it's nice to see you. And I'm like, I have not a clue who you are. Um, I wouldn't know where to start. So all, all of this to say I think that there is something, a bit of an insecurity that I have about not being memorable enough Sure. Or about, about, about not being good enough at remembering people that makes this kind of sticky for me. And then add the element of social media onto it where, like you said, the way you teach is vulnerable and is you are giving all of yourself people feel close to you. I think the same thing happens on Instagram or social media where we share our intimate lives. Like there are people out in the world that know what my bedroom looks like and know what my house looks like. And it's very easy when you, when you feel that close to me to think that I'm that close to you. Um, I can only imagine the dialed up version of that when we get to celebrity sat status. But it's an interesting thing nonetheless. I, it's weird to me. I needed to hear that advice for myself and I'm so grateful that you shared it again today. Cause Speaker 0 00:47:09 Just like do it until people are sick of you, the worst thing that's gonna happen is Paula Abdu will tell you to shut up. Speaker 2 00:47:15 <laugh>. <laugh>. Exactly. Yeah. I think that everyone has the fear of not being, uh, memorable enough or, um, they, uh, gave you their vulnerable selves at one point and then you don't remember them so it hurts their feelings. So then they hold back the next time and they, and that's normal, especially in this industry. And people also, um, have like platforms everywhere and then they have following. And so maybe they assume we all know each other's platforms, but the coolest way is like when celebrities say, Hi, my name is this and this and, and then I'm always like, Yeah that's really nice cuz I know who you are and thank you for introducing yourself cause that makes you a regular person and that's cool. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And um, I think if we all just kind of approached the everything as regular people and even if you say, um, uh, I have a bad habit of introducing myself over and over again until you stick. So give me something that sticks, that's fine too. Yes. Um, so that's the best way to go. Speaker 0 00:48:17 Oh, transparency, Speaker 2 00:48:20 <laugh>. Is that what that's called? I wanna give Speaker 0 00:48:22 <laugh>. Let me tell you the honest thoughts that are happening in my mind right now. Actually. I've been criticized for this as well. I've been called a live feed, like a Twitter feed. Like I just say the things that I think <laugh>. Wow. Which makes me a great podcast host. Let me tell you what Speaker 2 00:48:41 <laugh>, that's Speaker 0 00:48:42 Self proclaimed. Speaker 2 00:48:43 That's awesome. I think that's one of the gifts though. You know, a lot of people stay in their head and process it and then it, and then it's like a polished form. Just, just get it out there. Just have, you know, oh, Speaker 0 00:48:55 Get it out there in a digestible way, which might be different depending on different rooms. Like you said, you learned the language that this director guy spoke and you taught yourself how to speak it. It was not your nature to be blunt or to be curt or to be brash, but you can, for these 12 hours or whatever it turned out being 20 hours, you could identify the, the tone and the language that was being spell that was being spoken, matched it, and then moved on with your life with a new skill, with a new language under your belt. Yeah. And I think we can all, um, do that and still be authentic. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> like me learning how to speak your language doesn't make me less me. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, I think it's only helpful to us both to, to learn how to communicate better or in languages that we understand mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, Okay. I love this. Um, okay. I I am curious, are you, do you still do anything with the Backstreet Boys or I mean new kids? Sorry. Speaker 2 00:50:00 Well, we did the joint tour of Speaker 0 00:50:03 We Sure did. This was my, this was my first time working with you and we were kinda Speaker 2 00:50:09 Like two fraternity houses that were Yes. Joined together for one, you know, toga party <laugh> and it was a nightmare of testosterone. Um, but Speaker 0 00:50:24 Time Speaker 2 00:50:25 It was fine. It was like, okay, cool. I know I would like look at you and give you an eye hug from across the room. Yes. Save me. Yeah. I hope Speaker 0 00:50:34 You love you Speaker 2 00:50:35 <laugh>. But yeah, I, I am still, um, dating new kids on the block. Yes. It's been like 15 years. Um, we did a tour this summer, um, the last, they keep going and it gets easier because they get older and <laugh>. Speaker 0 00:50:49 Oh right. <laugh>. Speaker 2 00:50:50 You know, the goal is always to make people look natural. So with age is grace. So you want, you know, to like teach something new, give them some new vibes, but also things that aren't trying to hard. So it's the most fun job that no one ever sees because it's not a dance community job. But it's been the biggest gift to me in my career is working with new kids. And I'm so grateful for it. I thought going into this choreography life that I would be meant for the artist that I like, uh, adored as a dancer like Janet or Missy or people like that. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> and what the universe gave me was new kids on the block and um, like the dance community doesn't really understand cause it's like a nostalgia market and it's like Right. You, you have to love them in order to understand how good it is. Speaker 2 00:51:45 If you just go, you're gonna be like, what's happening? Why, why, why? What's the connection? What is this? Because it's all nostalgia. But for the millions of fans around the world who love them, they are so nice. They always see all the details that I do. They compliment everything. They'll say this move and they'll, they're, they'll blow it up on Twitter and they'll send me videos of them doing it. And it means the world to me that the people who love them also see and appreciate me. And um, yeah. You know, it's, it's, it's like the something to be aware of is, and the same thing with like love, but like, what we think we want isn't always what we get. That is meant for us. It's perfect for us and it looks different maybe than what we set out. And uh, but when you're in a place where you feel appreciated, heard, well, taken care of wanted and, and you can be yourself, it's the most fulfilling and magical thing. And that's that job for me. Speaker 0 00:52:47 Wrap that up and put a bow on it. <laugh>, that was gorgeous. Thank you for Thank you for sharing that. And I'm glad that I asked. I wasn't sure, it's been a while since I've seen my Backstreet Boys, but I did during Covid get a, a drive by FaceTime from aj, um, who wanted to let me know that he's putting his daughter in dance class and, and that he thought of me and that was also so sweet. They, they're in good bunch of dudes. Speaker 2 00:53:10 I saw them, they came to Hollywood vibe where I teach, I think it was Nationals or something, but it was so crazy. And they were, they were like, AJ from Backstreet Boys is here with his daughter. And like, I saw them from afar, but it was too many people and I just didn't say hi and go up to him cuz it it was, I was like trying to go teach. Yeah. It was a lot. But, but our paths crossed Speaker 0 00:53:31 <laugh> Good peeps. I love that. Funny story unrelated, but since you and I are tangent tyrants, um, I always, when I try to say paths cross 95% of the time I say Cross's path. <laugh> are cross's path. I say it all the time. Wow. I can't, I can't. But those, those r those rs really cross in my brain <laugh>. So anyways, cross paving. Um, ke I, I wanna ask you because I think you're quick and I'm so curious to hear these answers. I wanna do a little rapid fire round. Are you cool with Speaker 2 00:54:07 That? Yeah, that's fun. Speaker 0 00:54:09 Okay. Um, first question. Oh no, I forgot to copy paste them into my notes. Hold Speaker 2 00:54:15 On. That was a statement, Speaker 0 00:54:17 Right? <laugh>, look at you A plus look at you. Accelerated learning first was Speaker 2 00:54:24 A check. Okay, go for it. Speaker 0 00:54:26 Oh shit. No, I don't have it again. Wait, Speaker 2 00:54:28 Make them up. It's Speaker 0 00:54:29 Okay. Okay. Well I'm making 'em up. Here it is. This is a, if you Speaker 2 00:54:32 Donate 150 Speaker 0 00:54:33 Improv Speaker 2 00:54:33 Four times or whatever, Speaker 0 00:54:35 Well I always change em up a little bit. Okay. Okay. Um, but this first one is the same for everybody. You're stranded on a desert island. You have a CD with one track on it and one track only. You also have a disman. You're lucky because it would suck if you only had the cd, you had no way to play it. What is the one song that you would listen to for the rest of eternity? Speaker 2 00:54:56 Wow. That's really hard. Um, let's see here. Um, well since I'm stranded, I'm gonna go with, um, Crazy from Britney Spears Speaker 0 00:55:09 <laugh>. Yes. Cause you're gonna match the tone. Yeah. Or you Speaker 2 00:55:15 Would match the tone. Or maybe Survivor from Destiny's Child and I could like Yes. Move through the bamboo trees video. Yeah. Speaker 0 00:55:22 You, Yes. And maybe if you really channeled the video hard enough, you would have an inflatable raft. Cause I'm 99.99% sure there was an inflatable raft in that Speaker 2 00:55:32 <laugh>. Speaker 0 00:55:33 Um, okay. Uh, what is your favorite word? Favorite word? Speaker 2 00:55:38 Ooh. Um, I like septa cuz it sounds like vulva. <laugh>. Speaker 0 00:55:44 You know what's funny about Sepulveda? I always call it veta. Yeah. Speaker 2 00:55:49 Veta. Sep Vita. Speaker 0 00:55:50 Just to be different. Uhhuh. Just, I like, I know what it is, but I love it. Um, also, yeah, Sepulveda itself, like as the street isn't bad, so yeah. Double. It's also visually, like, aesthetically written. It's pleasing. Speaker 2 00:56:02 Uhhuh. Speaker 0 00:56:02 Yeah. Great call. Great call. <laugh> least favorite word. Speaker 2 00:56:06 Ooh. Uh, maybe moist. Moist. It sounds like a, And you have to say it like an Italian, like moist you know, And then, and it's gross because it like has a visual that's like steamy and thick and, and gross. <laugh> Speaker 0 00:56:20 Stop right there. Because also steamy, Steamy is not a great word. Speaker 2 00:56:25 Steamy. Steamy. Thick and juicy and Speaker 0 00:56:27 <laugh>. Okay, so you just tapped, You just sat. And I'll share this because now we're out of rapid fire zone <laugh>. That was Speaker 2 00:56:34 A Speaker 0 00:56:34 Short round. We're coming. No, we're coming back to it. But I'm just saying like, right now we're in conversation again. That M word is one of my three. I have three that I goosebump like hate. And I know I'm not unique in this way. I think that m word is that way for a lot of people. I think so. But I have three. And Marty Kka does not hesitate to use all three at any given time. Like he loves that he has this on me, so I've stopped sharing them because it really does give people power. <laugh>. Um, so I'm just gonna tell you, you've got one outta three and maybe the other ones will come up in conversation. I'll let you know, but ooh, yikes. Uh, okay. So favorite word, least favorite word? Favorite move. What is your favorite move? Oh my God. Speaker 2 00:57:21 Favorite move. Um, I like a good roll up. I like to pretend someone's like, like when I was a kid, I used to like, um, kick my siblings behind their knees and they, their knees would collapse and they would like fall to the ground, you know, like if you hit someone behind their knees. So I kind of like always loved that feeling of just like, jumping down into the ground and like, let my knees bend and then let my body roll up. It feels like a, it always feels like a rollercoaster or like a rush. It's just that, that little roll up, it always just feels good. Uhhuh <laugh>. Oh, Speaker 0 00:57:54 I'm gonna do one next time. I see you. Okay. Uh, which brings us to the flip side of that coin least favorite move. Speaker 2 00:58:02 Oh, Um, there's quite a few. I started making those signs, like, like dance signs of like common sense on my Instagram. Like, um, stop jumping, You know, I love so much and the ones that I, I don't wanna get in trouble, but like, it's like I wanna write like, stop pointing to your back on the word back. We get it. Stop cradling baby. On the word baby. We fucking get it. It's not original. I get it. We hear the piano, don't play it. We hear the drums. Don't, don't mock them. We get it. Like, let's try for some things. So, like, at first though, when I was first starting, those were like the most magical things, but 20 later, that's your choice. Come on. Yep. Let's do, let's evolve it. You know, like if it's baby, maybe, um, you're like, it could be anything small. Maybe you're crying with your eyes. We don't have to go like that. Speaker 0 00:58:59 <laugh>. Maybe you wear a diaper. Okay. Maybe. Speaker 2 00:59:02 Yeah. It's just those little things that once Cool. That are still, um, first choice for, um, Right. A visual, uh, expression is, um, annoying. So I don't really have like a least favorite move cuz anything in context is, is cool. It's just when choices are, um, not like, like making a choice of a visual presentation is such a privilege and a gift. And if you're, it's like you're just saying, um, well, uh, yeah. Uh, and, um, I'm, uh, like that's what it feels like when you're just choosing things that already exist for years and years that, you know, don't reflect who you are. So I'm kind of a snob in that way. I'm like, please stop recycling when you're so unique. Like, just make something new. Speaker 0 00:59:50 I wish I just leave it there. No, I love that ending. Although I do air instrument all the time, it's one of my signatures. So, but I'm gonna call it a signature. It's not a default. It's like, Oh no, that's what I do Speaker 2 01:00:02 Now. But if you do it what I was gonna it, it, it, it, it makes sense to the story and it's right there and it's clever, then yes, let's put them in there. Or if you're being funny, Speaker 0 01:00:12 Don't have to make me feel okay about it. I don't know, Speaker 2 01:00:15 For all the people out there who might be like, what? I'll still do it. So if you see me do any of those things, it's because I'm being sarcastic at the moment or I'm playing a character Speaker 0 01:00:24 That too. Yeah. Speaker 2 01:00:25 Which I love playing a character or I like being funny. Um, but I Speaker 0 01:00:29 Overt and like on the nose sometimes. Yeah, that sounds that's what it calls for. Speaker 2 01:00:33 Yeah. Like sometimes like you wanna be thrashy when Britney's on, it's a, it needs it, but also that's not really your authentic voice. So my bigger point is that like, the authentic voice is when when it's not seen, I get annoyed. Yeah. Cause everyone's so fucking cool. Why not just use your own voice? Speaker 0 01:00:53 This is a wonderful place to wrap this conversation up. But, you know, I have to say just one more thing I have to say. Just one more thing. Kevin, you are now cursed by having been around so long that the things that are new for some people are genuinely played out for you. Yes. You are like genuinely bored of things that people are discovering for the first time. And yeah, you've see, you've seen the resurgence of the trend like 18 times and you're so over it. But that's just because it's not their fault. It's your fault for sticking around and being so Speaker 2 01:01:28 Like there bunch, there's a bunch of 19 year olds running around with ginger spice chunky highlights. And I'm like, that's not what we need back Speaker 0 01:01:36 <laugh>. Mm. That's not the part we wanna bring back. That is not the part we wanna bring back. Kevin Maher, thank you so much for your thoughts on what we wanna bring back and who we wanna bring forward. <laugh>. Um, I really, really cherish you as an example in my life. You're one of my favorite teachers ever. I didn't say that earlier. We didn't talk much about about teaching, but I really, I really do love your class and I really did take it with Jillian <laugh> and we really did live on the same street <laugh>. Um, uh, how's that for context? But, uh, yeah, I, let's please be talking more. I really, really, uh, really enjoyed this conversation. Thank you my friend. Speaker 2 01:02:15 Thank you so much for having me. It's, uh, honor, love you. Speaker 0 01:02:20 We'll do it. We'll do it again sometime. Love you back. Bye. Bye. Speaker 0 01:02:29 All right, my friend Kevin certainly does not disappoint. I hope you have smiled and giggled as much as I did having this conversation. Uh, I really love how Kevin, it talks about knowing when to, uh, meet someone where they're at versus knowing when to go head to head. And I think he does that so well. He's a great reminder to me that both of those things are an option at any time. Um, I also really love this, this advice guys about introductions. Please, please, please tell me your name and how I know you. It is so helpful. Oh my gosh, it's helpful. Um, I, yeah, I think I'm gonna actually probably have to do a spinoff episode on that cause I have a lot to say about that. So I'll be back. I'll be back on the name game. Um, I suppose that's all for me for now, for today. Go out into the world, keep it exceptionally funky. I'll talk to you later. Bye. Speaker 0 01:03:33 This podcast was produced by me with the help of many music by Max Winney, Logo and brand design by Bree REITs. And big thanks to Riley Higgins, our executive assistant and editor. Also massive thanks to you, the mover who is no stranger to taking action. So go take action. I will not, cannot stop you from downloading episodes or leaving a review into rating. I will not ban you from my online store for spending your heart earned money on the cool merch and awesome programs that await you there. I will 100% not stop you from visiting words that move me.com. If you wanna talk with me, work with me, and make moves with the rest of the words that move me community. Oh, and also, I will not stop you from visiting the dana wilson.com if you're curious about all the things that I do that are not words that move me related. All right, my friend, keep it funky. I'll talk to you.

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