Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Foreign.
[00:00:06] Hey, everybody. My name is Dana, and this is Dance Plus.
[00:00:11] How does that sound? The crowd goes wild. The crowd of one person in the room goes wild. Thank you for that.
[00:00:19] This episode is about how to know when to pivot, and we're going to use the real life case study of me and this podcast.
[00:00:28] I don't even want to record this episode right now if I'm gonna be totally honest, but I'm going to because this lesson is so freaking important.
[00:00:36] I was just on the phone with a dear friend and podcast guest, Will Loftus, and I was telling him about how I had a pod record date today, and he was like, wow, you've really been doing this a long time. I was like, yeah, 270 episodes, dog.
[00:00:52] And he was like, wow, that's like. That's like a lot. And I was like, yeah, I have the capacity to do something for a really, really long time.
[00:01:03] I mean, the capability and the capacity doesn't necessarily mean that you should, and it certainly doesn't mean that you should keep doing it the same way forever. So this episode is all about my real time thoughts and feelings around rebranding the podcast.
[00:01:21] And I'm excited to share with you, of course. But first, we're going to do some wins today.
[00:01:30] What am I celebrating?
[00:01:32] Oh, I mean, duh, the rebrand of the podcast. But also I'm celebrating kind of a fumble that I'm going to frame as a win. I had jury duty, and I forgot that I had jury duty, so I didn't call in one day. I'm so curious if you have ever had jury duty, and I'm curious if you like the sound of these bracelets. I'm gonna take these off.
[00:01:54] Here's what's up. I got summoned to jury duty during the Seaweed Sister show. I was able to postpone that jury duty to the week after the Seaweed Sisters show. Now, lo and behold, the Monday morning after our closing show on Sunday night, I had a gig. I got a new. I got a job. I was working on a music video on Monday, but on Tuesday, I did call in and they were like, you do not need to report today. And then on Wednesday, I was asleep, so I did forget to call in on that day. And then on Thursday. Stay with me. Stay with me. I did call in and they said, you failed to report for jury duty, so. Or you failed to not. You failed to report. I don't remember what they said. They said you failed something.
[00:02:41] And so we're rescheduling your jury duty. I was like, no, I was really hoping that they wouldn't have noticed and that I didn't have to come in. So maybe on that third day, I did have to go in and I didn't go.
[00:02:52] Anyways, I have to go back to jury duty. But it didn't conflict with the Seaweed Sister show, or with my music video project, or with filming the podcast or with rebranding the podcast, for that matter. Basically, jury duty mattered not to me, so it will matter to my future self. That's what's going well in my world. Your turn.
[00:03:10] What's going well with yours?
[00:03:28] Shall we talk rebrand, rebranding, and how to know when to pivot?
[00:03:37] We're talking about it, actually. I think there's a second episode here that's how to know when to stop completely. But today is about how to know when to pivot. When your North Star is strong and you're compelled to do something, but it's not quite right and you feel like you need to change something. That is what we're talking about today. Some context around the podcast, if you didn't already know. The podcast started as a book, and the book was called Words that Move Me. I had an ISBN number, an editor, an illustrator, a lawyer. I had all the people to help me make this thing real.
[00:04:10] The book was a collection of short stories. And then on the effacing page, a short story about how that quote came to be. For example, on set of the Suit and Tie music video, David Fincher says, hey, can I tell you something? And I'm like, yeah. And he says, never stand when you can sit and never sit when you can lay down. Which I think is him telling me that I was being too busy and making him anxious because I was, like, really eager to please everyone on that set. Anyways, that's the story. And David Fincher talking directly to me, giving me direct advice, even if it was a quote that wasn't his, is pretty cool.
[00:04:45] Some of these quotes were from my mom. One of them is from my trainer. One of them was from Kurt Vonnegut, one of my favorite authors, who you should be embarrassed if you do not know who that is. Anyways, as soon as I got, like, to the place where you go to publish and I got my lawyer in place, she responded to me after she read the transcript, and she was like, you know you're going to need written permission from all of the people that you're quoting, right?
[00:05:13] And I was like, oh, yeah, that makes sense. But Kurt Vonnegut is dead, and I don't think David Fincher is going to respond to me. And she was like, yeah, you're gonna need to write to Kurt Vonnegut's estate, and you're gonna need to get Kurt. David Fincher to respond to you. So anyways, my big, big dreams go on the sideburner. Cause I didn't know how to hurdle that hurdle.
[00:05:36] Jump to. I booked a couple films in one year, and I had to step away from the book. And when I came back to it, I realized the book is not a book at all. The book is a podcast Pivot.
[00:05:47] I realized the book was a podcast called Words that Move Me. It seemed to make total sense at the time. And I copy pasted the title of the book to be a title of the podcast, because we're talking quotes and moving stories.
[00:06:00] This makes sense. But ever since the beginning, a little piece of me, whenever I said the words, words that Move me, I felt like it was clumsy, like I was chewing on marbles a little bit.
[00:06:12] And every time I said it to someone, I thought I saw a squint of their eye that was trying to understand what I had just said. But I had the book, I had my cool text, I had my font and my logo and all my cool things designed by my dear friend Bri Reitz, who crushed it on Words that Move Me and dance Plus. Anyways, I had a killer logo, I had a killer website, I had this awesome podcast, and. And I had a tiny voice in the back of my head that said, people don't remember that and people don't understand it.
[00:06:48] And it wasn't until 230 some episodes later, I was talking about the podcast in my teen and Senior Ballroom at NYCDA, which is like 150 to 200 kids.
[00:07:00] And I said, I have a podcast. And everybody cheered. The room goes up. They're like doing the finger clap thing. And I said, and it's called Words that Move Me and.
[00:07:11] And the cheering stopped.
[00:07:13] And they were chewing on what I had. Just. They were like. They were like, what? And I was like, do you guys hate the name?
[00:07:20] And nobody responded. But there was confusion in faces and there wasn't enthusiasm. And that was a defining moment for me that helped me to know I needed to make a change. It didn't tell me. And not everybody will have a moment as defining as that.
[00:07:35] It didn't tell me, do it now. But the voice got louder that day. And I think for every creative person, there will be a tiny voice that says something's not quite right.
[00:07:45] And the momentum that is in place to keep you going will keep that voice quiet, but that voice will get louder.
[00:07:53] So I'll tell you when the moment to pivot is. It's not when the voice gets so loud that you can't think.
[00:08:00] It's when you have something to say to that voice that makes you feel good. Good.
[00:08:06] It's not that you've got this voice that says something's wrong. It's when you have a response to that sentence that makes you feel excited.
[00:08:15] That is when you pivot, that will mean that you have the momentum, the energy to pivot the moment in the ballroom. I knew I still want to do a podcast. This is not the end of the podcast.
[00:08:25] I do think the pod is important, but searchability of the podcast, memorability of the podcast is so important. It's a dance podcast, and if you go search dance podcast, guess what doesn't show up?
[00:08:39] Words that move me. I am a dancer. My guests are dance people. This is a podcast that centers around dance, and it spirals out from dance into all these amazing places. But the center is dance. It is my native art language. It is the thing that lights me up.
[00:08:58] And it's nowhere to be found in the title of my podcast. What the heck? Anyways, sorry, back up. I'm not speaking linearly. Forgive me. I knew that day at NYCDA that the voice was loud enough to communicate with. It was too loud to ignore. I knew. I didn't want to stop, but I knew the title wasn't sticking when I said it. I literally watched it go. Literally. I figuratively watched it go in one ear and out the other ear.
[00:09:27] That's a thought. Of course. But I tested that thought in the weeks that followed.
[00:09:32] I tested that thought on a lot of the people that complimented me on the podcast. I love your podcast, dude. You're crushing it with the podcast. Podcast, podcast, podcast. Whenever people came to me with that enthusiasm, I would say, okay, I don't mean to put you on the spot, but I'm putting you on the spot.
[00:09:47] What is my podcast called?
[00:09:50] And some of them could not answer.
[00:09:54] So if you are a person who has been thinking the title of this podcast is stupid and I can't remember it, I'm directly talking to you when I say I agree.
[00:10:02] And it was right for the book, and it was right for a time, but now I feel great about addressing this small voice in my head that got a little bit louder. And I'm really stoked about what the rebrand means for me. For the Podcast for my ability to reach more people and my ability to sit down and have a conversation with a small voice in my head, which really is not that bad. Bad, my friends, Give the voice in your head a microphone. Get curious about what it is saying. Because what I thought it was saying was, you're stupid and you picked the wrong title. But what it was actually saying was, I don't think this is sticky enough. I don't think this is working as hard as you are working. I don't think people can find you easily enough. And the 270 episodes that you have that exist to help people aren't being as helpful as they can be. I want people to find the podcast. I know it needs to center around dance and spiral out. I know that I already have community of people who love me. So I start putting the inside voice feelers out.
[00:11:03] Hey, friends, I want to rebrand the podcast. What do you think about this? I wanted to open the floor for some conversations, jump to a separate conversation, a different conversation. A long time ago, had conversation with my friendor Tony Basel. If you're a longtime listener, please forgive me, because you may have heard this story. If you're a student of mine, you've definitely heard this story. I was dancing at Tony's house once. We're freestyling in her studio, and she's standing watching me with her arms folded. My friend Emily just texted me about this yesterday because she heard this story on the podcast recently. And I say, I don't know if her arms were actually folded, but they were emotionally folded. Like, her arms were emotionally very tight across her body, and her face looked like she had just eaten something sour. And I was like, tony, what is bothering you?
[00:11:54] And she was like, what do you call that? And I was like, ouch. I call it a wounded ego.
[00:12:01] I call it freestyle. And she was like, no, I mean, what style of dance? Like, when you tell people that you're a dancer, they ask you, what style? What do you say?
[00:12:09] And I was like, oh, I changed the subject as fast as I can so that I don't have to answer that question, because I hate that question.
[00:12:16] Boo on that question. I just. I don't like the genre fication of dance. I understand that it is helpful when you are building a class schedule and you have to call a class a name, but when you're, like, talking to someone about who they are and what they do.
[00:12:31] The type of dancer that I am is made up of many genres. And especially when I freestyle, I am fusing dialects like I'm using all of my dance history. I'm using all of my life history.
[00:12:42] So this sparks a conversation about dancing, your history, which is Tony's North Star. And I don't think there are many people who have as much dance history as Tony has.
[00:12:53] She is truly dancing vaudeville. She's dancing classical ballet. She's dancing street styles. She's dancing, dancing pop.
[00:13:00] Anyways, so many pieces of her history come through in her dancing, and what she was asking me to do that day was name the part of my history that leads.
[00:13:11] She says, you do tap, right? And I was like, I did a little time step. And I was like, yeah. And then she goes, you do ballet? And I was like, yeah, it's been a long time. But yes, like, you could tell me to do a tambe pas de bere glissade soda shah and I could do it.
[00:13:31] Or you could tell me a much more elaborate petite allegro combo, and I could also do that. I eat petite allegro.
[00:13:38] Anyways.
[00:13:39] Ballet, Yes, I do it. She goes, what did you dance the most?
[00:13:44] And I said, jazz.
[00:13:47] We had jazz three days a week. So I said, jess, and she says, why don't you call your style Jazz plus?
[00:13:54] You mean like Disney plus and Apple plus?
[00:13:58] And she was like, yes.
[00:14:00] And I was like, what? So I immediately start calling my style Jazz. And a little while later, when I'm designing my personal website, I found a graphic designer who specializes in font and typeface. His name is James Edmondson, and he actually designed an all original font for me that we named Jazz.
[00:14:20] Jazz became like core identity for me. So actually, I still feel very good about Jazz. By the way, if a picture says a thousand words, Jazz, the. The words moves moves. Jazz is it. So when I started conversations with the RE about the rebrand and what do we call the podcast? Riley Higgins sitting over there in that chair said, what about Dance plus? And I was like, yes, dude, it's not. Not Dance plus. A few reasons why it's two words, actually. One word. If you use the plus symbol. And it is the word that I wanted to be in the podcast title in the search bar. Dance. Like that. That was it. But what tipped the scale for me was the flexibility in dance. Blank dance allows us to keep the legacy title.
[00:15:12] Words that move me. Dance plus Words Dance plus this, guest Dance plus that guest Dance plus Direction. Dance plus. Talking about money like the fill in the blank part of it is awesome. And keeping Words that move Me as a legacy title makes a lot of things easier on the back end, but it really spoke to honoring history, which I love. I knew it was time to pivot when I was excited to answer the question, what, what are we gonna call the podcast?
[00:15:41] And I think that moment, if you can get to it, if you can get through the criticism, the doubt, the first rounds of recognizing that tiny voice, which, yes, is gonna bring up some uncomfortable feelings. It might bring up the thought that you did something wrong. It might bring up the thought that you've wasted time or money or that you really ought to quit.
[00:16:03] It might bring up a lot of uncomfortable things listening to that small voice. But there's value there.
[00:16:09] And when the small voice gets loud enough to hold a conversation with and you can get excited about that conversation, that is when it's time to pivot. And I'm thrilled that I had the support to pivot. I'm thrilled that Riley was game. I'm thrilled that Bri was down to like, jump in pretty last minute and make a new epic visual language for the podcast. The iconography alone, the brand kit was dense, y'. All. There's folders on folders. The brand is branding.
[00:16:42] I was honored also to have the extraordinary pleasure of being gifted an intern directly from lmu, Loyola Marymount University, Carly Clayton. I love you, Carl. Carly and her help throughout the summer during the Seaweed Sisters show, during the podcast rebrand.
[00:16:58] This is a lot, you guys. This is not a one person thing. I had to get a new domain. I'm forwarding from the old domain to the new domain. I had to redesign the email blasts, change all the icons on the Instagram and TikTok. The name on Instagram, the name on TikTok. Have to make sure all the episodes and playlists for episodes on YouTube. New YouTube banner. Oh, my God. The other reason why people don't pivot is because an object in motion stays in motion. It's easy to just keep going, to change direction, to pivot, to takes more energy. But guess what else? It's more dynamic. It's good looking. It's exciting to watch people change direction. A pivot. Oh, my God. I've never met a pivot that I don't like. I'm looking directly at you, Crystal Pie, and all your kids.
[00:17:45] All the kid pivots. Okay, do you want to know a side? A really sick sidebar. Cool story.
[00:17:50] This is kind of a flex. I'm not going to lie. This is kind of indulgent.
[00:17:57] I had the pleasure of watching kid Pivot perform live at Jacob's Pillow a hundred years ago.
[00:18:05] I don't Remember when it was. But it was a long time ago. I also had the pleasure, not pleasure, of getting Lyme disease at the pillow that summer. But anyways, the good news of that summer, well, first best thing that happened that summer was getting to take Crystal's class. Phenomenal. That's the first best for sure. The first worst thing to happen is getting Lyme disease. The second best thing to happen that summer at Jacob's Pillow is we got to have, like, a friend's dinner. Like, I don't know how I got invited to friends dinner. So I'm having friends dinner with the Pivots. And you know when you feel yourself kind of catch fire and you're, like, talking and you're going and you're still going, and people seem to be digging it, all of a sudden, I'm talking about a new business that I want to start where regular sandwiches are ice cream sandwiches, like peanut butter and jelly, but an ice cream sandwich, like fluff and udder, but it's an ice cream sandwich. Obviously, all the peanut butter. All the sandwiches have to do with peanut butter, obviously, because it's delicious. Anyways, what the hell? In retrospect, I'm like, they. They were fools. I. But I was telling a story about ice cream sandwiches, and I was going.
[00:19:12] And in that moment, I became an honorary pivot. They nicknamed me.
[00:19:18] Do you know what they nicknamed me? I can't even say it. I'm too touched.
[00:19:24] They nicknamed me Party Pivot.
[00:19:28] Isn't that cool? Isn't that stupid? Freaking cool.
[00:19:32] Stupid. So what's ironic is that this party Pivot can party on doing one thing forever. So take it from me, please. It is worth it to pause and it is worth it to pivot and listen to that small voice that says something is not quite right. Something could be better.
[00:19:50] But simply. Simply having that voice is not enough. If we pivoted every time a small voice started telling us, you should probably change course, then we would be zigzagging forever and spiraling.
[00:20:04] Intentional, purposeful, motivated, and deliberate Pivots.
[00:20:11] There's nothing better.
[00:20:13] And you know it's time to do that. When you are excited about the conversation that you're having with the small voice in your head that says, something's gotta change, that is what I have for you today, my friends. If you're curious about the dance Words that Move Me rebrand, let's talk about it. Reach out. If you're curious about your own rebrand, you can still join the Words that Move Me Community. That piece of the words that Move Me puzzle is totally unchanged. We are a vibrant cohort of of what like 40, 50 artists, dancers, choreographers, photographers who are navigating their creative careers with clarity and confidence. The Words that Move Me Community AKA Widomcom, is going strong. I will be sure to link to the Words that Move Me Community the new website danceplus podcast.com danceplus podcast.com really lucked out that that was available, by the way. And the and the Instagram page. All of it. Anyways, I'll include all the important links in the show notes to this episode. Thank you for still being here 270 plus episodes later.
[00:21:14] It means the world to me.
[00:21:16] Now get out into the world and keep it funky. Oh my God. Same tagline.
[00:21:21] Not everything needs to change.
[00:21:25] Dance is produced by me with the help of many Big big big big. Love to our Executive Assistant and editor Riley Higgins. Music is by Max Winnie, logo and brand design by Bri Reitz. Our communications team consists of Ori Vajadares and Sydney Richardson, and we've got extra help from LMU intern Carly Clayton. If you're digging the podcast, please leave a review or rating. Also, if you want to connect with me and the many marvelous members of the Words that Move me community, visit danceplus podcast.com if you're curious to know more about me and all the stuff I do outside of the podcast, visit thedanawilson.com.
