Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Dogs or cats?
[00:00:03] Speaker B: I mean, cat dog.
[00:00:09] Speaker A: That show was crazy. Did you ever watch that show?
[00:00:12] Speaker B: Yeah, of course I watched.
[00:00:12] Speaker A: Cat Dog was so high in a meeting once that they were like, I've got it. It's both.
[00:00:18] Speaker B: And they're both.
[00:00:20] Speaker A: Okay.
Oh, my God. Hi. Yo. Welcome. Whatever. Just the one camera. It's just me.
It's going well. My friends, welcome to Words that Move Me. I'm Dana. I'm thrilled that you're here, because today we're talking to one of my favorite dancers and people, Comfort Fidoki, who has been at the top of my dream list for podcast guests since the podcast started, which is five freaking years ago, y' all.
Take that.
I'm crying. That is gonna come up a lot in this episode, actually. Not me actually crying. Well, you'll find out. Anyways, moving on. Before we get into this conversation with Comfort, which is so heartful and informative and really inspiring, and also, she's so funny, and I'm laughing all the time. Before we do that, we're gonna celebrate wins today. I am celebrating a very successful Seaweed Sisters shoot in yesterday with the one and only Taylor James. Thank you for the assist, Fiona Small.
Okay, that was me. I love a shoot. And you know what? You also can have a photo shoot. You can have a photo shoot today. Probably not with Taylor James and definitely not with Megan and Jillian because their schedules are very hard to coordinate. But you can go out into the world and, like, take pictures with friends.
I encourage you.
But for real, what's going well in your world? Go sick. Moving on. Comfort food, y' all, is a woman who moves through any dance space with grace, with confidence, with so much fun, funk, and style and compassion and. Wow. I can't think of a team that would not be better off with her on it. She talks about being a muse in this episode, and I think that she is. I. I can't think of a person who could look at her and not be inspired in some way. So I'm thrilled to share this conversation with the one and only Comfort Fadoki.
Oh, no. Oh, no. I have to do it.
Okay, first of all, Comfort Foodie, welcome to the podcast.
What size shoes you wear?
[00:02:47] Speaker B: Good question.
[00:02:48] Speaker A: First and foremost.
[00:02:49] Speaker B: First and foremost, children. Yes. Yes. Well, these I believe. Let me check. What's up, Jay?
[00:02:55] Speaker A: It's like a little boy's five.
[00:02:56] Speaker B: Five.
[00:02:59] Speaker A: That's freakishly. I don't have a fetish, but that is freakish that I use inside the issue because your feet, like, almost disappeared in the fur of My rug because I can't and I have. It's an insecurity of mine that I have Gigantor feet. For someone who's five' three. I wear eight and a half, but let's be honest, you don't look like an eight. I'm more comfortable in a nine because.
[00:03:19] Speaker B: You need to always go a size up. Just anyways, just to effect. Because, you know, the shoes can rub against your. That's why you got the corns on the side.
[00:03:26] Speaker A: I would rather a slightly larger shoe and have the option to wear an insole or, like a heel grip or, you know, a funky, chunky sock. Like, that option is nice. Although if I know I'm going to be dancing, slightly smaller is better than too big because it's clumsy. Clumsy. You're flipping out. You look a mess. And a small shoe is aesthetically, it's, like, nice to look at. So I feel like. I feel like I've got, like, cinder block feet, and it's something I'm self conscious about. Also, I really wore jingly, jingly bangles on the podcast today. What are we working with? Comfort.
[00:03:59] Speaker B: Working with a full band is what we're.
[00:04:03] Speaker A: Wait. Which is crazy.
Before Comfort came in today, which, by the way, we are going to get into a podcast eventually, I was listening to Chaka Khan and I was like, you know what? I feel like Comfort is the dance world version of Chaka Khan. I think you're timeless. I think you are wildly versatile. I think you are loved by all. Like, I can't think of a person that's like, no, I don't really fuck with Comfort. Like, you are this person in our community that is loved and respected by all, and I'm so grateful that you're here. Thank you so, so much.
[00:04:34] Speaker B: Honestly. Thank you. Thank you. And honestly, the feeling is absolutely mutual, Dana.
[00:04:38] Speaker A: Right, let's talk about mutual feeling. I have a feeling we're just going to be exchanging flowers this whole time.
[00:04:43] Speaker B: This whole time. Because honestly, it is like even just coming into. Coming to California, coming to Los Angeles and knowing who I was supposed to be able to connect with or who I was able to connect with, and to be able to know of you and then be sitting next to you and then call you my friend and then still admire all the works that you do. We. It's like, it's, it's, it's. Honestly, it's. It's. It's an honor to. To hear you even say that, because I feel absolutely the same way.
[00:05:10] Speaker A: I'm not crying.
[00:05:11] Speaker B: I Mean either.
[00:05:12] Speaker A: I am crying.
[00:05:13] Speaker B: I'm crying.
[00:05:14] Speaker A: But it might be my new serum.
[00:05:15] Speaker B: That I'm using on my phone. I love. I love it. Oh my God. Is that serum in my.
[00:05:18] Speaker A: It's a serum.
Okay, so before we get into our meet cute and more mutual adoration of each other, I would love to hear you introduce yourself.
[00:05:29] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:05:29] Speaker A: Tell the listener, viewer what you want us to know about you.
[00:05:32] Speaker B: Oh my goodness. Hey, what's your girl come for do?
It's just a thing that I do all the time. Just due to the fact that people will call me fadok when they see my last name.
[00:05:42] Speaker A: Did I say it right today?
[00:05:43] Speaker B: No, you did.
[00:05:44] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:05:44] Speaker B: No, you did. But most people always say fadok. And I always have to be like fadoki. Like okie dokie, Fadoki. Like, you know, anything that rhymes in that aspect can kind of help you get to that point.
[00:05:54] Speaker A: Thank you.
[00:05:55] Speaker B: Yeah.
Myself, honestly, I am a dance artist that just loves to be in everything all the time in some type of capacity. I'm over ambitious. I think maybe, maybe that's not a thing. But like.
Well, maybe it is. Maybe who decides what's going under? I think I'm deciding, I guess that in that sense only because I just dive into so many different avenues and I haven't necessarily told myself that one is the one that's supposed to be only my avenue. So then I can get caught up in many and multiple things at the same time. And so yeah, but I.
I am.
[00:06:31] Speaker A: Me a multi type, a multi interest, a multi talent that I'm so, so grateful to know and have connected with.
So I want to talk about our meet. Cute.
When the first time we met, I don't remember what year that was. What year were you on?
[00:06:47] Speaker B: So you think, wow, we should go there, huh? Time going back.
I love that.
[00:06:55] Speaker A: You don't know. I love it because some people are like, oh, the.
[00:07:01] Speaker B: It was crazy. Okay, it was 2000.
It was a long time ago, but it was 2008. I was on the show as a contestant.
[00:07:09] Speaker A: Yes, correct. Right, right. That's why it was our feet.
[00:07:11] Speaker B: That's why it's hard because of your.
[00:07:14] Speaker A: Life for a decade, I think or more one.
[00:07:16] Speaker B: One thing I could say is I grew up on television. Cause I never thought I could say that. And when I think about it, now that you made me, it was like it was 2008. I was 19 years old when I was, you know, not fresh out of high school. I was like my freshman year into college and I got into the Show.
[00:07:35] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:07:35] Speaker B: Yeah. And moved to LA 2009.
[00:07:38] Speaker A: Where's home? Home.
[00:07:39] Speaker B: Home is Dallas, Texas. D town.
Wait, Texas?
[00:07:43] Speaker A: I did not know. Does Martin know that?
[00:07:44] Speaker B: Yeah, me and Marty will talk about it. But the thing is, I never grew up in the studio.
[00:07:49] Speaker A: Right.
[00:07:49] Speaker B: So I didn't grow up in a studio world. Like, I had like, my. My best friends and like my dance brothers I grew up with that would always take me to certain classes or something like that when I started to learn a little bit more about the space. But, yeah, I never really, you know, knew until I started to pay attention to who the choreographers were of my favorite artists.
[00:08:06] Speaker A: Right.
[00:08:07] Speaker B: You know what I mean? And then I was like, oh, I care, actually. That's crazy. I like this. Who's Marty? I want to meet him. Like, you know what? I was as. I. As I got more into when I was younger. Yeah.
[00:08:16] Speaker A: And also I had same. Who's that guy? I want to meet him. Okay.
[00:08:20] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:08:21] Speaker A: So Marty was invited to be a choreographer on the show the season that you were on as a contestant. And he invited me to co choreograph. To chore. Choreograph him. And he invited me to co choreograph with him, which was very cool for me because at that point, we'd already done.
I had done my first world tour with jt. I assisted him on that tour, which was wild. Going from.
I was 19 with zero experience in the touring pop star space.
Going from zero to being a dancer and assistant. And he was the direct co director of that show as well. So My Notebook didn't just include, you know, dancer staging, but also scrim cues, lighting cues, JT's track, the band risers up down, all those sort of details as well. So. Talk about steep learning curve.
[00:09:08] Speaker B: Yeah, we.
[00:09:09] Speaker A: We built a solid, you know, trust and working relationship. So. So youo Think Came around and luck of the draw, we got to work with you and Jose.
And I still love Comfort. I love that dance. I love the way you dance that dance.
I love the way you aren't afraid to be emotional. I love the way that being emotional doesn't stop you from being technical and foundational and clear and. But mostly funky, though, because sometimes, yeah, feelings get too high and we start losing the clarity.
[00:09:43] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:09:43] Speaker A: But I. I remember just. And I was so nervous going into it.
[00:09:48] Speaker B: Really?
[00:09:48] Speaker A: Oh, absolutely.
Very nervous to be, you know, like, those choreographers on that show get ripped apart or.
[00:09:58] Speaker B: Yeah, they do.
[00:09:58] Speaker A: It's kind of a make or break moment.
[00:10:00] Speaker B: It is.
[00:10:00] Speaker A: And I just remember feeling like we were in such good hands with both of you. And so flashback on that.
[00:10:08] Speaker B: Yeah, that was when I. That's when I came on. Actually. That one is when I came on as an all star.
[00:10:12] Speaker A: Was it?
[00:10:13] Speaker B: Yeah. So I was.
[00:10:14] Speaker A: So it was later, then.
[00:10:15] Speaker B: So it was later. Yeah, it was later in 2008. That was like, you posted it, like, 14 years ago. Does that sound 14 years?
[00:10:25] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, girl.
Yeah.
Yeah. If that dance. If that dance was an actual art, baby, then it would be learning how to drive right now.
[00:10:36] Speaker B: I. And you know what? That would.
[00:10:38] Speaker A: It would be learning, like, it would be getting his driver's permit.
[00:10:40] Speaker B: It was a full permit. Yeah, full permit.
[00:10:42] Speaker A: And we would be like, yes.
[00:10:43] Speaker B: U turn. You turn. Hold on.
[00:10:45] Speaker A: You.
[00:10:45] Speaker B: Like.
[00:10:45] Speaker A: I'm not.
[00:10:46] Speaker B: Don't accelerate.
[00:10:47] Speaker A: No, no. And. And this is what I would be doing. No, we live in California. We don't need a full stop.
Look both way and then proceed.
Yeah.
[00:10:55] Speaker B: Yo, that's amazing. Honestly, I loved that dance, and I. And I don't think it was appreciated as much as it should have been personal.
[00:11:03] Speaker A: It didn't get panned.
[00:11:05] Speaker B: It didn't get panned, but it didn't get praised. It didn't get pray. And I think it was just because of how they. You know, everyone had their own thing with even, like, our contestant, because that was Jose, and that was Jose. Jose was a. Is a breaker. You know, he's a B boy.
[00:11:16] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:11:16] Speaker B: So, like, that was, you know, him coming out of his comfort zone. And honestly, it was out of my comfort zone, too.
[00:11:21] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:11:21] Speaker B: It was still out of my comfort zone. Pun intended and pun intended. Unattended, like, so.
So it was. But it was so lovely to, like, dance. I've. I never danced in such a stylized piece with, like, the. It was. Everything that y' all brought was, like, the clothing, the timelessness. Like, I just felt like I was in. Like, I felt like everything needed to be in black and white. I just felt like I was in this, you know, it should have shot it that way. It was just. It was. It was a lovely moment to really understand storytelling through dance, but then also keeping it funky and stuff. It was. That was great.
[00:11:52] Speaker A: Yeah. Marty and I performed that duet together in Japan. I can't remember if that was before or after we did the show.
[00:11:59] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:11:59] Speaker A: But dancing, it is special because it is equal parts acting and executing.
There's, like a breakdown, a little locking breakdown. That's tough.
But it is about a relationship. And tenderness, we'll call it.
[00:12:14] Speaker B: Yeah, try a little tenderness Just try.
[00:12:17] Speaker A: Try it on you might like it. Let's try it.
Okay. So from that point. Okay. So even if that was an All Star day.
[00:12:24] Speaker B: Yeah. That was an all star time.
[00:12:26] Speaker A: Then you went on to play in many different roles on the show. If we really zoom out, what would you say is, like, biggest lesson from so youo think Go.
[00:12:36] Speaker B: The biggest lesson from so youo Think is adaptability.
I feel like. Or at least I. My lesson from it was learning how to be adaptable and learning how to be amused for a choreographer because I didn't realize my influence.
I think I was just always willing to just like, be a collaborator no matter what the circumstances were. And so I didn't realize how my collaboration was also just elevating the choreographers or finding ways to have them work with me outside of the show or sometimes only want me for the show and not work with me outside the show. Like, I just learned so much about, like my, I guess, purpose or my influence.
[00:13:20] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:13:20] Speaker B: Being on the show, from contestant to All Star to mentor to then. And so it was just like seeing all the tears that I ended up going through in the process was. It's just, I guess if I stepped out and used one word, I was just like, okay. It was learning how to be adaptable and influential and a muse of some sort to both the producers at the time and also the choreographers. And that's why I ended up having, like, lasting relationships with some of them.
[00:13:45] Speaker A: Yeah. And that's, I think.
Is that the only time we've really worked together?
[00:13:50] Speaker B: I think actually.
So, yeah. After that, it was just socials because.
[00:13:55] Speaker A: Of the nature of that show. It is very intense. Like, we made a one and a half minute thing.
But you get to know people under pressure. You get to know people out of their comfort zone. You get to know people in high stakes situations. I feel like certainly the relationships you made on that show are some lifelong.
[00:14:11] Speaker B: Yeah, for sure. For sure.
[00:14:13] Speaker A: Well, I'm super grateful for that time. And that was a beautiful segue comfort. Because I want to talk about how you work on teams, be that as an assistant, an associate, all the different performers. Strictly a performer. I think you're really good at facilitating smooth.
You know, from A to B and from B to C, like, you help make things smooth.
[00:14:39] Speaker B: Thank you.
[00:14:39] Speaker A: You're welcome. And now I want to talk about.
Let's just jump 15 years forward to. To working on Wicked as part of the choreography team, which was dense. Ish. I mean, I think Chris does a great job at staffing his choreo department.
So Christopher Scott at the helm, you, Will Loftis. Emilio Dressal. Yeah, that was it.
[00:15:04] Speaker B: Right, right. That was our associate choreographer team. And then we had Leah Hill as our assistant, who was out there from London.
[00:15:12] Speaker A: Excellent.
[00:15:13] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:15:13] Speaker A: How about that one? Biggest lesson learned.
[00:15:17] Speaker B: Biggest lesson learned. It was just massive. Like, that one was communication, yo. Like, that one was, like communication to the highest degree. And the communication where it was.
Where it was, like, direct and concise and.
Yeah. And just being straightforward thinking, you know what I mean? And just being able to just. And then also personality management 100.
[00:15:42] Speaker A: Like, all of that. It's almost all that.
[00:15:45] Speaker B: I mean, it's all that at one time.
[00:15:47] Speaker A: Because communication is management of yourself and your mind and knowing your audience. Like, who am I talking to? What are we talking about? What needs to be said, what doesn't said. Yeah, it's all personality.
[00:15:59] Speaker B: Right.
[00:16:00] Speaker A: And communication.
[00:16:01] Speaker B: Right. And in being also, you learn a lot. And a lot of people need to also understand, like, in the sense of where an assistant comes in or to an associate to then the lead choreographer. And so when you have all those tears. And Chris Scott does a really good job with creating a team that, you know, knows their position and then delegate as much as they possibly can to know, like, what position you're in and what. What part you're playing in such a. Honestly massive movie as it was. And it was just so interesting to just really know when to be there and bridge the gap between him and the director and the performer and just knowing where. When to take over on the set and be like, you got. I got this. You need to be over there in Munchkin Land for a little bit. We'll stay over here in Oz dust, like, you know what I mean? Like, it was just really working as a team and being able to communicate that, you know, if you're not here, we got you.
[00:16:49] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:16:49] Speaker B: And, you know, if I'm not. If I'm not there. Emilio got us and we're like, there hit us, you know, like, being able to communicate all of the different, you know, avenues to make that you have.
[00:17:00] Speaker A: To divide and conquer.
[00:17:01] Speaker B: Yeah, we divide and conquer.
[00:17:03] Speaker A: Because it's so big.
[00:17:04] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:17:04] Speaker A: I was just talking to Fiona about this yesterday.
Super shout out. Fiona Small, who's on the couch over there?
[00:17:10] Speaker B: Washington.
[00:17:11] Speaker A: We had a seaweed sister shoot yesterday, and we were driving back afterwards, and I was asking Fiona, what did you learn? Because I love this question. And Chris asks us all the time, does he still do that?
[00:17:21] Speaker B: What?
[00:17:21] Speaker A: What did you guys learn?
[00:17:22] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. What did you learn afterwards? Yeah.
[00:17:24] Speaker A: And I love getting that pause, a moment to reflect.
But I asked Fiona what she learned, and she was like, you know, we talked around the subject for a second, but mostly communication is so important.
And I love working alone. I love making little things by myself all the time.
But the second your project or the second the scale of your project expands by even one person, you have to be able to communicate the vision, the list of things to do, the tastes, the values, the reasons why I made this decision so that we don't have to have this conversation again.
[00:18:00] Speaker B: Right.
[00:18:00] Speaker A: And I really. I just value communication so much. And, yes, I love the way Chris gives feedback. We had a couple very straightforward conversations that might have been tough, but I don't see them as tough. I see them as straightforward, and I love how he's able to do that. Yeah.
[00:18:16] Speaker B: Yeah. And that's what that whole thing was about, was just about community, but also just not communicating with each other, communicating with other departments, like, because if they don't know how to.
[00:18:27] Speaker A: Your favorite other department.
[00:18:29] Speaker B: I mean, honestly.
I mean, I love Paul Talswell.
[00:18:35] Speaker A: Like, he.
[00:18:36] Speaker B: I mean, the wardrobe department, if I'm honest. Like, I just enjoyed going there and just diving into what he was doing. I was like, what is the detail in this?
[00:18:46] Speaker A: Like, you know, like, it was like, it was.
[00:18:48] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:18:49] Speaker A: I think I was just insane.
[00:18:51] Speaker B: I would assume I was super. Just, like, enthralled by just seeing all the different details and stuff like that. Yeah, that one was. That was fun to kind of same.
[00:19:00] Speaker A: And I love dress up. Like, I always dress up. I have always loved dress up. So don't tell Steve Gazicki, the music supervisor who I love and got to work with on La La Land and in the Heights.
[00:19:12] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:19:12] Speaker A: And he's just so wildly talented. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Steve, you're a dream, and I'm coming for you. I want you to be on the podcast someday.
Don't tell Steve Gazicki, but I would say wardrobe also. And it's not because, I mean, we need music to do what we're doing, and we work in musicals and that's, like, a thing.
But my movement is at least as informed by what I am wearing as it is by what I'm hearing. And the second that fitting happens and you know, oh, that's like, now I know who I am.
[00:19:44] Speaker B: Yeah. But you'd also know what needs to change. Or you also get to have say with being like, okay, we're doing a couple of things like this. We need these type of shoes, or we need this type or this type of gusset.
Right.
[00:19:55] Speaker A: Because we need a little bit more.
[00:19:57] Speaker B: We just need a little bit more. More room.
[00:19:59] Speaker A: We need more room.
[00:20:01] Speaker B: So, yeah, like, being able to, you know, have that. Have that communication there and also just be nosy on the detail of the talents, like, what their clothes were looking like. I was like, let me see that one more time. Come here real quick. Cynthia, why?
Detail?
[00:20:15] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:20:16] Speaker B: Prestige.
[00:20:17] Speaker A: Yeah.
I'm a big fan. You know where we're gonna go right now?
[00:20:22] Speaker B: Where are we going?
[00:20:22] Speaker A: We're gonna talk about that scene, her solo.
[00:20:26] Speaker B: Yeah.
Yeah.
[00:20:31] Speaker A: Okay, now I'm crying.
Wow.
[00:20:35] Speaker B: I didn't know.
[00:20:36] Speaker A: I didn't know she had all that. I don't know why I'm, like, touching my shoulder like that.
[00:20:40] Speaker B: But she. There's, like.
[00:20:42] Speaker A: There's like, a quality of her arms that feel. Felt like Netherlands Dance Theater lifetime of contemporary ballet training. Like.
[00:20:49] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:20:50] Speaker A: Down. It was like, where did. Where were you storing that?
[00:20:54] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:20:55] Speaker A: And I know that you and Chris had a couple late nights creating that song.
[00:20:59] Speaker B: Yes, we did.
[00:21:00] Speaker A: Can you tell me one late night? Actually, one.
[00:21:02] Speaker B: Specifically one late night. Let's get very. Tell me about it. Let's get straight. Unfamiliar.
It was.
We had. So there was something that was already laid out prior to, like, maybe some days prior to. And he had called me the night before. We were supposed to show that. No show. Let's just show.
[00:21:24] Speaker A: Oh, got you.
[00:21:25] Speaker B: Just show Cynthia and start rehearsal. Because we started all the rehearsals pretty early, but before her time slot to come and rehearse, we're supposed to, you know, show her the Ozdas, like, the idea of it. And, like, Chris called and was like. Called me. Like, I don't know.
I don't know what time it was. I'm a. I'm a night owl. So I don't know, like, 10, 9, 9pm Maybe? He was like, what are you doing? And I'm like, well, you know where I'm at. Like, I'm.
[00:21:50] Speaker A: You know exactly what I'm doing.
[00:21:51] Speaker B: You know what I'm doing.
He was like, well, you know, I don't. I'm not settled with, you know, with. With what was done. And I want to see Chris Scott.
[00:22:01] Speaker A: It is so not be satisfied.
[00:22:03] Speaker B: He's not satisfied.
[00:22:04] Speaker A: Might be my biggest lesson learned from him, actually.
[00:22:05] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Because it's like, luckily, we come from a street dance freestyle world that it's one of those things is like changing on the spot, on the dime and switching everything up and then being prepared on that switch and not marrying something until you actually Fully have it solidly like, you know, made as a choice is kind of, you know, what he does. Like, he. He moves through things until he's satisfied with, you know, this is the product.
[00:22:30] Speaker A: And his degree, his bar for satisfaction is so high.
[00:22:33] Speaker B: It's so high. And so that night it was like, what are you doing? I'm not satisfied. I want to work this out more. Can you come over? And I was like, dope, I'll be there in a minute. I was driving in London for what? What? They gave me a. Will.
[00:22:46] Speaker A: Laughter Said the same thing. And I was like, excuse me.
[00:22:50] Speaker B: They gave me like, oh, don't even talk about it. With the cars, with Will.
[00:22:55] Speaker A: He told me, you're going to have to watch Will's episode to get the whole story. But yeah, there was an accident.
[00:23:01] Speaker B: There was.
[00:23:01] Speaker A: There was an emblem. Minutes.
[00:23:05] Speaker B: I mean, I lost a tire that was as crazy as mine got. I hit a curb. I hit a curb, tire went down. Called the. The Triple A people. What are they called? The little A.
[00:23:14] Speaker A: Dangerous. I barely.
[00:23:15] Speaker B: It's dangerous out there.
[00:23:16] Speaker A: I barely trust myself to walk cuz I'm looking the wrong way to cry. I. I would not drive.
[00:23:22] Speaker B: I had. I had my. I had my hazards on. I was like, y' all going to have to go around me. I don't care how steep this is.
[00:23:27] Speaker A: I don't.
[00:23:28] Speaker B: I don't go here.
Just a sign. American.
[00:23:31] Speaker A: No.
[00:23:32] Speaker B: Like, okay, no. So drove over there. Sorry, but I drove over there and we just. And he just was like, you know what? I just want to just feel what it is that.
That we're trying to convey about her character. Like, she's not. She wants to be able to move. She can move. Cynthia used to be in a. A street dance crew called Boy Blue.
[00:23:55] Speaker A: I knew she danced.
[00:23:56] Speaker B: Yeah, she used to be a part of a crew. She had a crew. Like Kenrick was, is the. Is the head of Boy Blue. And so that's the crew that she used to be on a long time ago. And so she was part of a street dance crew. And so we knew that she can move and we knew that she wanted to move, but it was about figuring out how do we naturally let her move and let the movement be her language and not look like choreography, you know what I mean? Like being able to just let that the soul speak, but yet we're movement directing her into what the actual choreography is, but making sure that it looked enough like it came out of her language. And what is her language? So we just kept talking about, okay, she. She Has a connection with birds and nature and life. Okay, what. What movements come out of her. That means that. And so I was just in his living room, just. We were just like, throw. Just. I was just in there just freestyling, honestly. And he would be like, stop, wait, what was that? What was that? Do that again. I'd be like, what if we did something here? And I did, like, this thing?
And he. And I just stood there and I leaned into it a little bit, and he was like. He said, yo, flutter your fingers. And I was like, he's like, that's it. And I was like, boom, let's keep that.
[00:25:05] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:25:06] Speaker B: And it was just like building on top of building. And we were just, like, going back and forth just like a. A puzzle. Just like, you found the piece, you found the piece, Got the piece, whatever. And we just kept building the language and stayed up maybe. I don't know how late it was. Yeah, we're night hours. We don't know. It's. It was late. Yeah, yeah. And. And. But we got the whole thing. And he was like, okay, I think this is at least the skeleton. I feel better about this. This feels like the language that we can give her.
See you tomorrow morning or see you in a minute.
[00:25:34] Speaker A: See you soon.
[00:25:35] Speaker B: See you soon. Yeah, see you soon. And I got with her in the morning, and, you know, he came in. We were doing two different rehearsals at the same time. One was downstairs for a different scene, and then Cynthia was upstairs with me, and he'll come up. And then we just talked about it, and we just laid the movement on her body, had the conversation, kept rebuilding, building, taken away. How does she feel about it? We did.
Worked so. So many versions, but so many versions that were still that version. Because what. What was important was it was just. She loved it. It was just about understanding how is it coming from her. You know what I mean? And so the more that we talked about why the movement was going, like, why. Why were we doing these things? Like, why. Why was she in this phase? Like, what. Why does she come from her stomach? Like, all these little moments. We had to, like, talk them out narratively.
So because she's an actor. You know what I mean?
[00:26:27] Speaker A: Why?
Other than choreographer says so. Yeah, it's essential.
[00:26:32] Speaker B: It's very essential. But collaborating with a talent such as Cynthia.
[00:26:36] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:26:36] Speaker B: You know what I mean? You know, you have to know why we're doing things, or it's just not. It's not going to register her to them or whoever the case may be. And so in that Moment.
It was intimidating at first, but then it was also just so rewarding at the end when she began to trust. Trust us and trust me with my thoughts and my. And. And why I think it should look like this or why we should stop at this moment or why should we stare? Why did we look at that hat and stay in our moment and. And go back and run back and collect. What are. Are you making the decision to pick the hat up or get or walk away from it? Like, what. What feels better to you? Just having those conversations building was. Was.
Was great and live for. Yeah, it was. Was. It was. It was cool. It was. It was. It was magical. It is. We cried for sure.
[00:27:23] Speaker A: It's the heart of that film, in my opinion. That scene in that Solo in particular is the heart of that movie.
Very, very into it. Congratulations.
[00:27:31] Speaker B: Thank you. Thank you. It gives me. It's still just talking about it. I'm still like. It's like this anxious energy feeling of it because it just takes you back to our process of it. And. And. And there's a moment that when we finally shot it, we shot the shot. The shot. And we also. We both never. We decided to not want to teach Ariana them together. We wanted her to actually follow, you know, the whole idea of the following in that whole space. We wanted to make sure that we. That.
[00:28:01] Speaker A: That was.
[00:28:01] Speaker B: That was authentic and, like, she wasn't, like, prepared for the movement. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right, right, right, right. So that was. That was a really cool moment. But when we actually shot the whole thing, it became. So the scene wasn't meant to be that, you know, I guess emotional. It just ended up turning into the vulnerability of that when Chris was like. We just wanted to be silent, like, just maybe a little bit of, like, undertone at the. Like, it was just. And that's where the music team was absolutely just brilliant because they just collaborated with the idea too. Stephen Schwartz was just like, yeah, whatever you want to do. Like, a lot of times, you know what I mean? It was just so lovely to just be able to build it how we actually feel. Felt the scene needed to go. So when we shot was so emotional. Cynthia was crying almost every take. And it got to a point where one of her takes that were Ariana's take, like, her. Her coverage, she just couldn't do it anymore. She was so drained and just from being in that scene and you know how. How they made it. And so then they asked me and they were like, well, can you stand in, like, because Cynthia can't do It. Can you stand in for Ariana coverage?
[00:29:09] Speaker A: So Ari's coverage is you.
[00:29:10] Speaker B: So some. Like, maybe. Maybe one. Maybe one or two takes are.
[00:29:13] Speaker A: Shut up.
Well.
[00:29:18] Speaker B: I mean, I'm sure you won't be able to tell. I'm sure if they. They. Which ones they used or not. But there was room for you.
[00:29:23] Speaker A: Were you.
[00:29:23] Speaker B: No, no, no, no, I wasn't. I wasn't a stand in like that. It was just. I was. No, I was dancing with her. It's just. It was just. I was actually dancing with her. I was actually in the scene. But I just. I think they done a really good job with. And I don't know, maybe they used some of that. Maybe they did not.
[00:29:37] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:29:37] Speaker B: Yeah. But I knew that I had to step in. There was a moment that I had to step in.
Yeah. Of course. I don't know if they used it. I can't remember if they used that coverage because of the fact that I wasn't green and. Or whatever. I was just her point. I was just her eye when it was going to be like very close up moments of her and emotional and we. And that was a day. And that day we like bonded, like. Oh, for sure. Like we cry. I was like, oh, I see why Cynthia couldn't do this. Because when you tap into that, this was. It was heavy. I was like, wow. Especially all the energy, the people staring at you and knowing what that feels like when someone just doesn't accept you. And it takes someone else being like you're cool to make everyone be like, I love you. It was just such a haunting moment and a feeling.
[00:30:22] Speaker A: Isn't it wild how relatable that moment is?
[00:30:26] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:30:26] Speaker A: But we're telling the story of like quote unquote, the Black Swan or the Ugly Duckling.
[00:30:31] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:30:31] Speaker A: And yet everyone relates to that.
[00:30:34] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:30:35] Speaker A: What does that say about our society?
[00:30:37] Speaker B: So it says about like just the. Like the recycle of our society. Like the things that just constantly happen over and over again in different ways.
[00:30:45] Speaker A: Humanity.
[00:30:45] Speaker B: Humanity.
Human nature in that sense, Right?
[00:30:48] Speaker A: Yep.
Yo. I'm stoked. I love it. I'm so impressed by you.
That was exciting and cool. And the Wicked. Right. Is still writing. We're going to get the second one soon.
Curious about what you are working on right now. Talk to me about a void. Talk to me about like, I love a passion project. I love a personal anything. I love. It's cool. Listen, Warner Brothers films. I will. I won't say no. I'm not gonna say no.
[00:31:15] Speaker B: No, no residual. But never say no.
[00:31:18] Speaker A: I'm not saying no, but I can tell you that I get so excited about some fucking dumb shit that maybe, maybe like my number of followers on Instagram might see and. But I don't care if it's important to me or if it's an itch that I need to scratch or something I want to explore or something I want to shine a light on. That's what I want. And I don't have to answer to. I love also love answering to John Chu, John Shu. I will answer to you forever. But when you have no one to answer to other than yourself.
[00:31:52] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:31:53] Speaker A: There's like a power and responsibility that comes with that. That gives me chills. Is that what avoid is for you?
[00:31:59] Speaker B: And am I saying it right?
[00:32:00] Speaker A: Or is it called avoid?
[00:32:00] Speaker B: Or is it. No, it's just we. We play with the word avoid. We came up. So my creative partner, Zoe Rapaport, we created this show called Avoid. And avoid is a pretty much a double entendre in a sense of avoid or avoid because it's the things that we avoid in our lives there. It's an emotional state that either we are influenced by or we're affected by emotion or other emotions that kind of, you know, you rub shoulders with, like, how does that affect you? Or how do you let it affect other people? Right. And so we wanted to create a show that was based upon emotions and like, in that understanding. And so we were able to collaborate with Chromasonic Field, which is a light and sound installation out in downtown la, where pretty much best way I can explain it in their space, when it sits alone, it's like where it's a place where color becomes audible and sound becomes visible.
[00:32:59] Speaker A: Well explained, like, you know, that should be on the website.
[00:33:05] Speaker B: You know what I mean? So that's the space. And so you have this like full sensory experience in the space. I mean, if you have light, if you have light maybe sensitivity and maybe, you know, anyone who had like autism or anything like that, it might be very sensitive to, to your eyes, just due to the flashes and the in. In, you know, up and down in the white space.
[00:33:23] Speaker A: There's stroby strobes.
[00:33:25] Speaker B: Sometimes there's strobes, strobey strobes. Sometimes it turns into a little raven there to an extent, just because the light frequency, how fast it moves in some paces. But the, the way it, if you close your eyes, the, the amount of conversations people have where people who just lay into the space and then they close their eyes and they can still see the color and now hear the sound and let that kind of move them. A lot of people have visions. A lot of people, you know, had out of body experiences. So that's the space alone. You know, it sits.
[00:33:51] Speaker A: And then at.
[00:33:51] Speaker B: And then we. And then we were like.
[00:33:56] Speaker A: Dance should be here.
[00:33:59] Speaker B: Dan should be in here. Because what. What happens when movement connects with frequency like that, you know, and when you now see a visual take on what you're already feeling like you use all your senses now. Right. You know, and now you're allowed to really understand what you're feeling by visually seeing it on dance artists who knows how to tell the story. And so because it's based on emotions, it very much does connect with what the space is about. So we wanted to do a true collaboration without taking away from the nature of chromasonic field and then placing. You know what I mean? Like trying to do two different things that don't connect with each other. We wanted to. We wanted our. Our piece and our story to really.
[00:34:36] Speaker A: To be about sensation.
[00:34:37] Speaker B: To be about. Yeah. About feeling. And let's let it collab like the collaboration be authentic and. And let it feel as if this, this dance or this, this. This piece has been with this space forever. And it was just its first time. We started this in February and now we are opening up our first opening June 13 and June 14. Tickets are on sale right now.
It's so exciting. We had like a work in process. Thank you first and foremost for your donation. Oh my God. Like art must happen. Art must make it. Yeah. We've been getting so much love from donations to like to put towards, you know, the.
Still taking donations will be in the show notes. Still taking donations because it's also for the dancers. This is also very. All very much a sweat equity and.
And investing our own money into the space and for our dancers as well. So all the donations have been really.
[00:35:33] Speaker A: I know how hard it is to make a thing and I know how expensive it is to make it is.
[00:35:37] Speaker B: But it is so rewarding when. When we had our work in process. I know you weren't able to make.
[00:35:42] Speaker A: I know.
[00:35:43] Speaker B: I'm so bummed. No, but it was so lovely because the feedback we got.
And it's different because again, it's an immersive space. The space is. Without giving you too much detail. You get to actually be in the space. You make the decision to either follow a character or follow a mover through the space or pause or pause and sit back and watch it get in the middle of it. You have Choices. And because there's so many different places you can be at a time, you'll never be able to experience the same thing each time. So it's really exciting to see how frequent our shows right now for just our opening. We're doing two shows a night, June 13th and 14th. That's our only weekend as of right now.
I know. As of right now. But that's why we are trying to, like, push it in a way, because it does feel like right now, it's like a proof of concept. We're trying to see how this works.
[00:36:34] Speaker A: Really good coverage.
[00:36:35] Speaker B: Get some coverage.
[00:36:36] Speaker A: Get a proof of concept.
[00:36:37] Speaker B: Hopefully sell this motherfucker out.
[00:36:39] Speaker A: Sell it out. Do some. Then do a phase two.
[00:36:42] Speaker B: Do a phase two to more fundraising.
[00:36:44] Speaker A: More.
[00:36:44] Speaker B: Yeah. And then. Yeah. And you know, and just kind of see what ends up happening. Right now, it's just to see how this works. You know what I mean? See if the space takes it in.
[00:36:53] Speaker A: Oh, I'm pissed. I can't be there. Can you be there?
Oh, shit.
She can't be there. Can you be there? Listener, viewer, please be there. Please go sell out the show.
Okay. I can't wait to hear about it. I'm gonna have you back on the podcast, and I'm gonna be like, what was your big lesson from avoid. I love a big lesson, though. Listen, this is why I do the podcast. I don't think everyone out there has to learn the same hard lesson that I spent 20 years learning.
Like, why can't we just share our big lessons with you so that you don't have to make our big mistakes? And then as a.
The unsexy word for it is as a workforce, like, as a cohort of choreographers and dancer artists, we can do better.
[00:37:37] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:37:37] Speaker A: And, yeah, I live for that. I can't wait to hear how it goes.
[00:37:40] Speaker B: Please. I will keep it.
[00:37:42] Speaker A: I really am so excited for you.
[00:37:43] Speaker B: I will absolutely keep you posted.
[00:37:45] Speaker A: Okay. You ready for final phase of this?
[00:37:47] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:37:48] Speaker A: Okay. Coffee or tea?
Tea Dogs or cats?
[00:37:54] Speaker B: I mean, cat Dog.
[00:38:00] Speaker A: That show was crazy. Did you ever watch that show?
[00:38:03] Speaker B: Yeah, of course I watched.
[00:38:04] Speaker A: Cat Dog was so high in a meeting once that they were like, I've got it. It's both.
Okay.
Morning rehearsal night.
[00:38:13] Speaker B: Rehearsal night, rehearsal.
[00:38:14] Speaker A: Favorite color?
[00:38:16] Speaker B: Green.
[00:38:18] Speaker A: Favorite book?
[00:38:19] Speaker B: Children of Blood and Bone.
[00:38:20] Speaker A: Wow. Good one. And I like that you just had that freaking.
[00:38:24] Speaker B: Love that book. Ready? All three. All three sagas.
[00:38:26] Speaker A: Okay, how about favorite move?
[00:38:30] Speaker B: Favorite move?
[00:38:31] Speaker A: We're gonna call it favorite dance move.
[00:38:33] Speaker B: Favorite dance. Okay.
[00:38:35] Speaker A: Riley and I were just talking the other Day. How much I love moving into the carpool lane on the 1:34, circa 8am on a weekday. That's my actual favorite move is eastbound favorite move. Tailgating Eastbound 134, 8am I love moving into the carpool lane. But what is your favorite dance?
[00:38:54] Speaker B: What if that's like. I love the Fast track lane. Get me out of here. I love the Fast track lane.
[00:38:58] Speaker A: Which reminds me, if you. If you are also getting texts about your unpaid don't do it violations. Don't do it.
[00:39:04] Speaker B: Don't do it. I have like, don't do it once.
[00:39:06] Speaker A: Every two days, I get one of those.
[00:39:08] Speaker B: And also just be prepared to know that your number is on the dark web.
[00:39:10] Speaker A: Your number is definitely on the dark web.
[00:39:12] Speaker B: So that's why you're getting all those texts.
[00:39:14] Speaker A: So you maybe need to be cleaning shop and creating new email addresses and resetting all your passwords.
[00:39:20] Speaker B: Yeah. So favorite dance move, I would say is the Dougie D Town Boogie.
[00:39:25] Speaker A: Wow.
[00:39:26] Speaker B: The D Town Boogie. That's where I'm from. That's where it's. You know, I naturally just.
I can just be right here.
[00:39:32] Speaker A: It's like in your bones, isn't it?
[00:39:35] Speaker B: That's it. You know, this is a deton boogie. You do it anywhere.
[00:39:40] Speaker A: Wait.
Uneducated.
Did it start?
[00:39:44] Speaker B: Is that what it was called Originally? Name was called D Town Boogie. Known as the Dougie. And the only reason why it's called the Dougie is because when you wipe your head, it was paying homage to Dougie Fresh.
[00:39:54] Speaker A: And now you know.
[00:39:55] Speaker B: And now you know.
[00:39:56] Speaker A: Done.
Least favorite move. Very curious to hear.
[00:40:02] Speaker B: I can show it to you. Do it.
[00:40:05] Speaker A: Ah.
Ah.
You'd be shocked at how many people answer this question that way.
It's like. It's like almost unanimous.
[00:40:16] Speaker B: Hate it.
[00:40:17] Speaker A: Hate it.
[00:40:19] Speaker B: I hate it.
[00:40:21] Speaker A: Okay, how about a guilty pleasure? Something that you really enjoy indulging in, but maybe you shouldn't.
[00:40:30] Speaker B: I guess watching like, I guess what they would call trash television. It says a reality like.
[00:40:37] Speaker A: Like Bachelor and shit.
I mean, what's your favorite reality TV.
[00:40:42] Speaker B: Show to just binge on? Oh, my God. No, No, I never.
So, okay, I have a. I have a. This is what happened. I was doing. I was working on an idea where, you know, I wanted workshop ideas about shows and people and things. And I was like, what are all these love shows? Why is everyone love, love. Why does everyone love all of these different things? And, you know, and I love love, but I was like, why does everyone so infatuated with all of these love shows that Question. First of all, what do I think the answer. Well, when I've done all of my research, I just realized that like everyone wants what they either they don't have or what they can't have or what their, their imagination tells them that they think they need to have.
[00:41:23] Speaker A: Totally.
[00:41:25] Speaker B: What they probably actually need and what can actually be, you know, in connection to what they actually need.
[00:41:31] Speaker A: Totally.
[00:41:31] Speaker B: But I also just think people just are nosy and they just wanna.
[00:41:35] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:41:35] Speaker B: You know, see what it is to live vicariously through, you know. Yeah. An idea. I think everyone loves the idea of someone else, but never really understands what loving someone else is. Anyways.
[00:41:46] Speaker A: May I insert myself in that conversation really quickly?
[00:41:49] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:41:49] Speaker A: Although it did sound like you were going someplace with momentum. You finish.
[00:41:52] Speaker B: No, no, no, no, no. I'm okay. I can, I'm good at segue. Bounce back. Yeah.
[00:41:55] Speaker A: Okay. I also think in addition to all of those things, that being in love and we'll just call it romance in general is a billion dollar industry.
[00:42:05] Speaker B: It is. Yes.
[00:42:06] Speaker A: People make so much money when you're dating, when you're in love, when you're vacationing, when everything costs that same much times two because there's fucking two of you. Our world, the economy of being in love. And like, like how much more money you spend when you're in love or when you're in a partner. It's like makes me want to actually crawl up and die because there are so many things, so many systems that help get you into love. Right. All the apps, all the, like the date dating itself is like swiping. Yes.
And very few systems to help you get out of it. And as a person who's been in it and out of it, like, shit, I wish it was cooler and, and sexier and easier and more fun to get out of love than into it because there's just so much pressure on falling in love and there's no help for coming on out of it.
[00:42:57] Speaker B: I know. And that's. And I think that's the research I wanted to dive into.
That's the research I wanted to dive into. So anyways, while researching this idea and wondering why everyone loves these shows, because I want to build maybe a show of my own. And what's. What would the topics be about? Yes, please. I ended up getting lost in loving the show Love Island. Like I was like in the UK version to be exact. Like it was like. And before I know it, when I Marie researching this is all for research that I'm watching these shows. I'm suddenly found Myself like when's episode in it.
[00:43:30] Speaker A: So invested, so invested, so invested.
[00:43:35] Speaker B: I'm like, that's how, that's how they get you. I've. I became the one person that I was like, I'll never watch these like reality shows. And then before you know it, I was researching all the shows. I was like, this is for research.
[00:43:50] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:43:50] Speaker B: Bachelorettes Season 18 Loading.
[00:43:56] Speaker A: Oh my God, that's great. Thank you for sharing that vulnerability.
[00:43:58] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:43:58] Speaker A: I know that I have a bingeable personality. So I have not started because I know that. I know that it's endless.
[00:44:07] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:44:08] Speaker A: Okay. Speaking of endless, we do have to end.
[00:44:10] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:44:10] Speaker A: So I will ask you my final question.
[00:44:12] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:44:12] Speaker A: What are the words that move you? A guiding principle, A mantra, an affirmation?
[00:44:17] Speaker B: A poem.
[00:44:18] Speaker A: A horoscope? I don't know.
[00:44:22] Speaker B: One that I have tatted on my body on February 22, 2020. Two. 222222.
[00:44:31] Speaker A: Nice.
[00:44:31] Speaker B: It was a very special day.
Trust the process.
It's. It's the constant thing I keep telling myself is trust the process. TTP all day.
[00:44:43] Speaker A: I have to, we just have to go a little bit further because I know that is so much easier, much easier said than done.
[00:44:49] Speaker B: Way easier said.
[00:44:49] Speaker A: Like the words trust the process. I can think at any time.
But the actual feeling of being in.
[00:44:58] Speaker B: Trusting that is not easy because you can't see. You know, it's like, it's like.
[00:45:03] Speaker A: And it's easy to get knocked out of it.
[00:45:05] Speaker B: Right? Because you know, it was like when someone says like you don't know, you know, what's behind a door if you close it. You know what I mean? Like you don't know what's going to happen if you close one door, is another one going to open? Open. Like the trust in knowing that like your instincts is important regardless if you, your faith in that is important to see the outcome even if it doesn't look that way. Yeah, it doesn't even feel that way. But instinctually, if something is eating at you to not do something and, or do something, trust that and whatever direction you end up going in, regardless if it looks bad or not, like the end of the road, trusting that process, I think it will work for you. And, and where I think you're supposed to go.
[00:45:46] Speaker A: This is interesting because what you're saying is actually different than trusting the process. It's trusting yourself within the process.
[00:45:52] Speaker B: Yeah. And I think that's all that really is. I think that's what trusting the process is though. Like cuz you, you have to trust your yourself within the process. Because if you don't, you're just like, yeah, this is going to work out. This be fine.
[00:46:05] Speaker A: It's reckless.
[00:46:05] Speaker B: It's reckless, reckless, reckless process. It's all good. And you're like, that's fine too. That, that's living off faith, just, you know, carefreely. And that's, that's also fine too. And knowing that everything is going to be okay, but also if you want to just remember the process and remember what you did, the lessons you need to learn, the lessons you need to take from it, then it's like it goes a little bit deeper than that too.
[00:46:24] Speaker A: Or if you want to refine the process, if you want to elevate the process, if you want to. To call back to Chris Scott in his moment of feeling, his instinct is like, this isn't quite right. We can do better. Yeah, that part. If he had just, if he had just said, I'm going to trust the process. It'll work itself out. No, no, I'm going to trust myself in the process. I'm going to listen to this instinct that says, this isn't quite ready.
And then the process will be.
Will lead to an end result that I'm like, wildly proud of versus one that I was passive in.
That's huge. Thank you so much for sharing and thank you so much for being your cover.
We did it. We did it three years later or like four years later because we've been doing the podcast for five years and you've been top of my list from the beginning.
[00:47:10] Speaker B: So thank you. Thank you for having me. Honestly, much blessings to for this as everyone can be in this chair and feel so comfortable just opening up their entire spirit realm to you. So that's exciting.
[00:47:22] Speaker A: I've so I'm just trying to put my natural talents to good use. Yeah.
Thank you again. Thank you, listener, viewer for being here. Like, subscribe, leave a review or rating, click the bell for notifications and keep it funky.
I cannot be fucked with now. My outs are so tight. I used to be like, if you're on YouTube, then at the bottom of your shit is about the top or the bottom.
Thanks again.
[00:47:47] Speaker B: Bye.
[00:47:49] Speaker A: This podcast was produced by me with the help of many. Big, big love to our executive assistant and editor, Riley Higgins. Our communications manager is Fiona A. Small with additional support from Ori Vajrares. Our music is by Max Winnie, logo and brand design by Bri Reitz. And if you're digging the podcast, leave a review and rating and please share. Also, if you want to Connect with me and the many marvelous members of the Words that Move Me community. Visit words that move me.com if you're simply curious to know more about me and the work that I do outside of this podcast, visit thedanawilson.com.
