Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: I love flow state and this is going very well. So, you know, listener, don't you want to date me? I'm going to be the one on a date. That's like, how well is this going, huh?
Holy smokes, my friend. I'm Dana. This is worth it. Move me. This is wrist roll. The dog having a relaxation station on my lap. We're not sure how long this is going to last. By the way. She usually gets rowdy around this time of night. You get a nighttime zoomies. I love her so much. It's fucked up how much I love this dog. Okay, you know what else is really, really messed up is that today's guest, Jasmine. JB Batty and I have never had a one on one like this. And guys, I think I have a new best friend. I really do. JB and I go pretty deep on process, on values when it comes to a creative team. In hiring dancers, in working with really high level talent, but also in having really humble moments, we share some excellent stories. I'm thrilled for you to hear this episode. I'm still geeking off of it. Obviously.
I'm going to. Yeah, I'm just going to keep going. She's funny, yo. We could laugh for a long time. I think you're going to love this episode. But first, we do wins on the podcast. I think it's really important that we celebrate what is going well in our worlds. So today I am celebrating. The Seaweed Sisters got a chance to perform at one of my favorite events. Vibe Dance competition at the Sergistrom Theater in Orange County. It's a gorgeous venue. The stage is huge. There are three of us. We just get to be really big Seaweed Sisters. It was so much fun. I'm gonna link to the performance because I do talk about a moment in that performance with JB and it's probably not going to be the story that you think I'm going to tell. If you think I'm going to tell a story about how I'm amazing, it's not that story. It's a different story.
So that's my win. We got to perform. I got to re evaluate my relationship with messing up live.
And I'm just so, so proud to be a Seaweed Sister. That's what's going well for me. Now you go.
Okay, my friends, Riz was snoring through your wins, but please don't be offended.
She's hard to impress. I am cheering you on from the sidelines. And I'm also so jacked about this interview. I Just, I don't want to take any more of your time. I want you to just have it. Today I'm talking to JB Batty. Her credits include, but are not limited to Sabrina Carpenter, Victoria Monet, Beyonce. She is an absolute top notch dancer and is becoming one of my favorite choreographers. Definitely somebody that you want to be looking out for if you are not already in the know. My friends, you're late. I did also want to share a quote that she said on her way out as we were talking a little bit more about the business of what we do and how money doesn't make her decisions. And I think it's going to be abundantly clear in the episode that she's empowered beyond the limits of dollars. As we were having this conversation about the economy of being choreographers and where choreographers have power and where sometimes we don't, she said, I could have $2 and still be rich. And this is such an attractive approach to life. And I think there's much about this conversation that will encourage you towards similar types of outlooks on life. Please enjoy the one and only Jasmine. J.B. batty. Oh, man. Got Riz in my arms. I can't do the breakdown from Coachella.
There it was and now we're in it. Jb, welcome to the podcast.
[00:04:10] Speaker B: Thank you so much for having me.
[00:04:11] Speaker A: I'm so thrilled. I've been a fan of yours for a long time. This is also our first time. Really. It's certainly in a one on one. Yay. And I have to say, I love you as a dancer and I know you're a dancer first.
[00:04:23] Speaker B: Oh, my goodness.
[00:04:23] Speaker A: I'm curious. I have a lot of questions about your transition into being a choreographer. Yes.
But at first, I want to say, when we just did our sound check, I listened to your voice and I was like, I want to give you my podcast. Can I give you my podcast? I want to listen to you and your laugh and your voice forever. So I want my listener viewers to know, if you don't already know, jd that you're a phenomenal dancer and choreographer.
[00:04:49] Speaker B: In addition to having a great voice from you. That means so much to me. So I appreciate that so much.
[00:04:54] Speaker A: You're very welcome. Okay, so we're geeking out. Welcome to the club where we fan on each other.
[00:04:59] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:05:00] Speaker A: I think I love that. Yeah.
[00:05:01] Speaker B: Flowers for everyone.
[00:05:02] Speaker A: Flowers for everyone.
Now you're gonna have to flowers yourself as many or as few as you would like. It's tradition on the podcast, you introduce yourself. So tell our listener viewer what it is. You want them to know?
[00:05:15] Speaker B: Well, I am. My name is Jasmine. JB Batty.
[00:05:19] Speaker A: Do you prefer being called Jasmine or jb?
[00:05:22] Speaker B: JB is my thing. Yeah. It's funny because my dad, when I first started dancing, there was another girl in the little company we were doing, the name that was named Jasmine. Our choreographer at the time was telling us she would always call Jasmine out, and we never knew who she was talking to or about. And I was like, just call me jb. Cause my dad used to scream. I used to play softball in high school, and my dad would sit at the top of the field and be like, all right, jb, let's go. And I was like, there it is. That's my name. That's my nickname. So everyone in the easier for us in this industry has known me as jb. I love it since they met me, so.
[00:05:52] Speaker A: Well, I was writing you a card and I was like, jasmine, JB baddie. Seems like I'm gonna run out of room. The card is pretty small, so I stuck with jb.
[00:06:00] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:06:00] Speaker A: That feels good.
[00:06:01] Speaker B: Yeah, that's great.
[00:06:01] Speaker A: I interrupted. You carry on. It's something I do.
[00:06:03] Speaker B: No, it's fine.
[00:06:07] Speaker A: Really classy. Really like, well trained host over here.
[00:06:12] Speaker B: Back to you. Yes. So our name is Jasmine. J.B. batty. I'm from Atlanta, Georgia. I've been in LA for about 12 years now. And, yeah, I like to shake and gig and move a little bit every now and again.
[00:06:24] Speaker A: Very good at it. Very good at it. When was your last dance job? Because you've been. Are you exclusively choreographing? You still perform? What's going on?
[00:06:31] Speaker B: Actually, I'm always open. I mean, I feel like any chance that I can get to do something that I actually like to do, and if I'm available for it, then why not? I don't want to close myself off to something that was always a passion, so. And you always learn something when you're on a gig like that. But I will say the transition has been more discerning about when I want to say no.
[00:06:50] Speaker A: Right.
[00:06:51] Speaker B: To those gigs. So I think what my last job. What was my last dance gig? I feel like. Was it. I think it was Victoria Monet, the BET Awards. I feel like that was the last one we did with Sean and did All My Mama. I feel like that was the last.
[00:07:12] Speaker A: Oh, cool. Yes.
[00:07:12] Speaker B: One that I was in production with.
[00:07:16] Speaker A: Do you remember your last audition? Ooh, mine was relatively recently.
[00:07:21] Speaker B: Really?
[00:07:22] Speaker A: For the Oscars for Mandy Moore.
[00:07:24] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, I heard about that. You did hear about Was a whole day thing.
[00:07:28] Speaker A: Yes. I have not danced like an 18 year old.
[00:07:32] Speaker B: Oh my goodness.
[00:07:33] Speaker A: Since I was 18 and until that day.
[00:07:35] Speaker B: And you know what? It's almost nice for them to think you can still do this.
[00:07:39] Speaker A: Yeah, come on over.
I was impressed by myself and it was such a cool reunion. So many people I haven't seen in a long time. I hadn't seen a man in probably a decade.
[00:07:49] Speaker B: Me, yo, me. I saw him at a Usher concert.
[00:07:52] Speaker A: And I was like, wow, he's quiet, he's sneaky. He will, he will fall into the background.
[00:07:56] Speaker B: Yeah. Like a, like a veil comes up every now.
[00:07:59] Speaker A: He is shadows.
[00:08:00] Speaker B: Yeah, he does. He shadows very well.
[00:08:02] Speaker A: Funky shadows.
[00:08:03] Speaker B: Shadows very well.
[00:08:05] Speaker A: Yeah. That's something I like about him. Okay, so I am assuming. And, and word on the street. Thank you, Byron, is that you're a really.
I wish I had a different word for this, but I don't. So I'm just gonna use the one I have. Like humane choreographer.
[00:08:20] Speaker B: Oh.
[00:08:21] Speaker A: Hold the room with kindness, respect, efficiency.
[00:08:24] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:08:25] Speaker A: Nobody's getting like yelled at or made fun of or, or singled out or.
[00:08:30] Speaker B: Yeah. I don't know. I feel like we've. I feel like if, if we've already dealt with that, if I've been a part of that kind of upbringing at some time, I can change the narrative and come into a space with a new kind of trauma, I guess. Or not bring my trauma on because that's my responsibility and it's not anyone's job to handle that projection. And you know, my stress is my stress. My bad day is my bad day. My emotions are the only responsibility. Yeah. That's the only thing I can control in a situation. So why come in with whatever I'd rather come in with? You know what? This is what we have, guys. This is what's going to happen.
[00:09:08] Speaker A: Amazing.
[00:09:08] Speaker B: Why not? You know what I mean? I rather that than anything, I think.
[00:09:12] Speaker A: I think that possibly because it's a natural trajectory for dancers to become choreographers and there is. The choreographers are under a tremendous amount of pressure. Number one, a tremendous. Why do I keep saying the word? I like it, I like it. It's nice, it's big. Tremendous amount of high expectations. Most people don't understand what choreographers do, so I'm sure you can relate. A lot of the times where we're on the job, we're educating people of how to interact with us and with our, with our teams. On top of that, there's a lack of recognition, a lack of respect, a lack of usually Time, money. I mean, the list goes on. Choreographers, I think things are changing. Thank you, Choreographers Guild. But I do think that we are the unsung heroes of the entertainment industry. 100% the Ghost Riders of a lot of the most successful things that we've seen on TV and film. And yet, because of that pressure, because of the lack of recognition, because of this, like, isolation tank that we work in, I do think a lot of us can lose the cool that it sounds like you're able to keep and that responsibility for yourself instead of taking it out on teams.
[00:10:24] Speaker B: Yeah, 100%.
[00:10:26] Speaker A: I'm being really long winded in my way of setting this up, but it sounds like you have experienced not so great rehearsal processes. Yeah, I don't care to know the details of those, just because I actually am more interested in hearing about your experiences that went well or hearing what you think makes your room run the way it does, other than you just being responsible for your feelings for me.
[00:10:51] Speaker B: I think, you know, when you are given certain elements to make something happen and, you know, to bring things to life or whatever, there are going to be those things that kind of go against that or that process. And already knowing that going into the situation, I'm already kind of prepared for it. And those things that we deal with, like the pressure or the recognition or the lack of elements that we need to make it happen, I kind of pivot a bit. Like, you have to kind of learn how to just, like you have to pivot on stage when something. Somebody's in the wrong line or somebody's. Whatever. You just have to learn how to pivot. And I think I always go in with. With the intention of having a good rehearsal space. Like, regardless of what is going on behind closed doors with my job or with music or with production or with the camp or with whatever. Yeah. Because again, it's not their experience. They're here to do their job. The dancers are here to do what they're supposed to be doing. And I can only do what I can do with what I have. So I'm very transparent about that as much as I can be. And then also, too, I feel, again, you don't. No one deserves what I have to deal with later. You know what I mean? Like, let me figure out, right?
[00:12:02] Speaker A: That's not their pay grade.
[00:12:02] Speaker B: That's not. That's not on them to figure that out. Like, for instance, I don't think it's. It's on them to be my skeleton crew if they're. If my dancers are in to learn what they're supposed to be learning.
[00:12:11] Speaker A: You better come in prepared with what they're about to learn.
[00:12:13] Speaker B: So therefore, my argument comes to, like, management saying, hey, I need a skeletal crew, because this is not their job to be here.
[00:12:19] Speaker A: To workshop potential.
[00:12:21] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:12:22] Speaker A: Options. Interesting.
[00:12:23] Speaker B: So things like that. So it's more like, you know, and I advocate for that because I don't want to. I know how I always. I always put myself in the situation. I don't want to be in a thousand versions and trying it over and over again or whatever. Like I. Or I don't want to have to, as a choreographer, have to prepare on my own dime, you know, to make up X, Y, and Z. To come in prepared.
[00:12:41] Speaker A: Listen, the prep days are baked into the rate. Hello, we are baking. We are. Prep days are essential.
[00:12:48] Speaker B: Yes. Has to be.
[00:12:49] Speaker A: Okay, that's good to know.
[00:12:50] Speaker B: So, you know, so I feel.
So again, I'm getting winded now, but again, I think, you know, I've had. I make the experience good because I come out of, like, gratitude. And I'm always just grateful for anyone wanting to be a part of the space that I'm in and wanting to do a job with me. Wanting to actually share. Like, for instance, the Grammys we just did was the first time I've worked with dancers I've never worked with.
[00:13:12] Speaker A: For Sabrina Carpenter. P.S.
[00:13:13] Speaker B: Oh, my God.
[00:13:14] Speaker A: It was very, very good. And my favorite thing about it. Funny. Yes, it was funny. Jv. I was like.
Because I knew she was cheeky because I've listened to the album and her lyrics are smart. She has a way of saying things without saying things.
[00:13:32] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:13:33] Speaker A: A wordplay. She's a master of wordplay.
[00:13:35] Speaker B: Love her.
[00:13:35] Speaker A: She's. Yeah, she's so cheeky, which I didn't intentionally say, but she also does have very good cheeks. Beautiful, gorgeous cheeks.
[00:13:42] Speaker B: Natural.
[00:13:43] Speaker A: I like, look at them and I'm.
[00:13:44] Speaker B: Like, like, girl, gorgeous.
[00:13:47] Speaker A: She's like the Gerber baby, but grown up and very love her.
[00:13:51] Speaker B: Oh, my God, she's fire.
[00:13:52] Speaker A: I'm glad we relate on that. But in my. In my view, which I'm not. I haven't watched all of her ever things that performance cemented her as someone who cannot be fucked with. She was like, oh, no, I'm here. Not going anywhere. And actually just getting started.
[00:14:08] Speaker B: Yeah, babe. Not even scratching the surface.
[00:14:10] Speaker A: Not even scratching the surface.
[00:14:11] Speaker B: Such a doll for me. I love her down. But yeah, like, that experience for me was already new. I know. That was the first time I actually felt that pressure of being in a Room where I wasn't completely cool with everybody. Not necessarily.
[00:14:26] Speaker A: Some people are new.
[00:14:27] Speaker B: Everybody was just new. Everybody was new. I knew Byron but you know, even then on a, in a working space, it was just a bit. It was still just different and new.
[00:14:34] Speaker A: Did you have an audition for that?
[00:14:36] Speaker B: No.
[00:14:37] Speaker A: How did you cast?
[00:14:38] Speaker B: I had the cast based off of. Well, I knew them based off of what they have done, like resumes and stuff and whatever. But also too like I like to be in control of the casting because she, her team, like her sisters, really big on her creative as well. They are very like choosy about looks and like wanting that. So I just know who I like to submit as far as like talent wise and really being able to pick up because I know what kind of elements I may not have in a situation and how fast things have to go. Of course at the last minute. So yeah, I cast it based off of just kind of what I've known people to do, like word of mouth. Of course I always ask.
[00:15:14] Speaker A: You check in.
[00:15:15] Speaker B: People ask, oh my God, what Like I'm like, who can tap? I need all the tappers, all the great tappers at a 511 and up and whatever. Like I just needed that kind of, you know, vibe and I trust the people who, you know, give me that, that insight.
[00:15:27] Speaker A: But that's this by the way, thank you for saying that is another thing that choreographers do that they don't get credit for which is all of that time that takes, that it takes to find the talent, check the references, do that digging. Because if, if an audition is not possible and even if it is, I will get my down to my selects after an in person audition and then call the people that are on the resume and be like, yo, what was like working with this person? And that doesn't happen in zero time.
[00:15:55] Speaker B: I can't even do that. I have to just go off of like it's really, it's been the grace of God for me. Like not for nothing, like I, I've. I've been a true vessel and just heard what, how I need to feel and feel this out and whatever. And like sometimes it works, but half the time it's been working.
[00:16:09] Speaker A: Yeah. Like, so you trust the people you're talking to? Yes, I see you trust what's on the page.
[00:16:13] Speaker B: I'll see something. I can and I've learned. I've. I think we've been doing this for so long, I can see what you know, you actually have. Cause Instagram can only do so much, you know, but the moment you see something that's like, okay, I see. I see that light or I see that.
[00:16:25] Speaker A: Can you put that into words? What is that thing that stands out to you that you love that's like.
[00:16:29] Speaker B: Ooh, it's that star quality. For me, it's that performance. It's not even the star. Cause it's not about you getting the step all the time. Cause I'm not the one that gets the step. I take. I'm a day two girl.
[00:16:39] Speaker A: I love you.
[00:16:40] Speaker B: Let me tell you. When that camera comes out and you want to record, I'm like, I just forgot everything.
[00:16:44] Speaker A: I might choke. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:16:45] Speaker B: And I used to hate it cuz my friends would put me on tape in class. I'm like, why would you post this? Like I look crazy. Sean would do this to me all the time.
[00:16:52] Speaker A: Dang it.
[00:16:52] Speaker B: Sean, Son of a gun.
[00:16:56] Speaker A: He is one person actually that I would allow to post me looking crazy. Anybody else, I would be like my guy.
[00:17:02] Speaker B: I will not. I'm sorry, I'm such. I'm OCD and I'm very like a perfectionist, I guess. And I just was like, don't put me in public looking crazy. What's wrong with you?
[00:17:10] Speaker A: Okay, so here's the thing. So you're a day two person, but is that because the mechanical learning part is slow or is it because there's a mental block around the camera?
[00:17:20] Speaker B: It's the. Well, the camera thing was a thing because the camera thing in class or like somewhere else, I guess is. I don't know, I feel more vulnerable in front of like peers and stuff. But when I'm on stage, it's a turn on. I don't. I see that red light and I'm interesting. It's a whole different vibe.
[00:17:38] Speaker A: Well, obviously at that point, by the time you're on stage and cameras are.
[00:17:42] Speaker B: Only very well rehearsed, I've retained. But I used to get really, really shy and everything would go out the window for me. And now I don't care. I think it was really just the confidence thing and caring about it.
[00:17:53] Speaker A: Like I had. I talked to Tony Testa, is a good friend of mine. I had him on the podcast recently. It's very talented. And he and I shared this. We grew up together in Colorado and he. That was like the time we were coming up like seniors in high school, it was starting to be a thing that you'd be filmed not on a phone, but like on a palm court. Like we people were filmed and the final group thing was becoming A thing.
[00:18:20] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:18:21] Speaker A: And he. And I would choke. And he talked about it a little bit on the podcast and says some things that help root him.
[00:18:28] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:18:29] Speaker A: Did you ever find a thing that really works for you in that moment?
[00:18:32] Speaker B: I think I still get nervous sometimes in class, but again, I think it's just because it's a vulnerable space. But I stopped caring. I just stopped caring. And I think the moment you release that and really, really literally dance like no one's watching and not care what happens.
[00:18:47] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:18:48] Speaker B: You can do whatever, like, after that, like. And then also, too, you. You are always constantly reminding yourself, I am who I am. I've done what I've done already. Like, I've. I've made it this far. Why am I about to let a class defeat me when it's classic? You're supposed to mess up. You're not going to get it right all the time.
[00:19:04] Speaker A: This is learning. You actually learn more from messing up than from.
[00:19:07] Speaker B: I didn't pass every test I took in class in school, so I'm not tripping about it. I just go home and study and then try it again. Like, do better.
[00:19:15] Speaker A: I love the thought of that last class moment as pass fail.
[00:19:19] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:19:19] Speaker A: Like, why would we think of it as pass fail? There's this giant sliding scale.
[00:19:23] Speaker B: I don't know what that is.
[00:19:24] Speaker A: It is very interesting.
[00:19:25] Speaker B: I don't know what that is. I don't know if it's the extension acceptance thing or if it's, you know, wanting to look great in front of your peers when you.
[00:19:32] Speaker A: It's a lot of things.
[00:19:33] Speaker B: It's all of that.
[00:19:33] Speaker A: It's all of that.
[00:19:34] Speaker B: It's the confidence thing. It's all of that mess. But I think the moment you get over that hump and, you know, realize that all of God's glory's on the other side of fear, you can really leap and float instead of fall. You know what I mean?
[00:19:49] Speaker A: Thank you for that.
[00:19:50] Speaker B: And I'm ready to just float.
[00:19:51] Speaker A: Float.
[00:19:51] Speaker B: I'm floating.
[00:19:52] Speaker A: I want to float. I don't want to fall. I don't want to be afraid of falling.
[00:19:55] Speaker B: No, because you're not going to fall.
[00:19:56] Speaker A: I'm not going to fall. Where are you going?
[00:19:58] Speaker B: You going? I got you. What are you talking about? Chill out.
[00:20:00] Speaker A: I had a great rewiring early. Not maybe not like, right. I moved to LA in 2005, and I think in probably 2009, I started working with an acting teacher who's also a past podcast guest, who really helped me celebrate those fumbles. Like, truly, I don't see mess ups. Actually, I can't say this with full honesty. I just performed with the Seaweed Sisters at Vibe.
[00:20:29] Speaker B: Oh, amazing.
[00:20:30] Speaker A: And I biffed. I lost when I tell you. Have you seen the movie Gravity with Sandra Bullock?
[00:20:34] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:20:34] Speaker A: You know the part where she gets cut from the spaceship and she's just out in space fumbling? That's how I felt. That's how far away the choreography was.
[00:20:43] Speaker B: Oh, my God.
[00:20:43] Speaker A: I was like, where's the movie? For five consecutive counts, I was like, what? And it felt like 45 minutes, and I was losing it. And for the rest of that night, the visual, the image, I get it.
Yo.
[00:21:00] Speaker B: You've been there, though. It's crazy. I get it.
[00:21:03] Speaker A: And it's so crazy because you're like, I know they're in there. And listen, the sisters, we've done this set many times. And it's also because we've got a lot of wiggle room. The way that we are set up is designed to be very individualized.
Bad is good.
[00:21:21] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:21:23] Speaker A: Wrong is right. Silly is very serious, and vice versa.
[00:21:27] Speaker B: And we.
[00:21:28] Speaker A: Anyways, it's a great place for mess ups to happen. But that couple eights was the section that we designed to be, like, the impressive dance section where we're all doing the exactly same thing. And exactly the same. You weren't supposed to do. And I was Sandra Bullock on the side, just floating in my spacesuit.
Okay. Yes. But here's the reason I share that story is because later that night, every time I thought of it, I would make a noise like, oh, oh.
[00:21:58] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:21:59] Speaker A: Like, every time my brain offered me, I just, like, audibly was disappointed. Anyways, what Gary and acting class helped me to do is sincerely change part of the way I think and feel about messing up. And that is liberating.
[00:22:16] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:22:17] Speaker A: So a lot of it is to do with other people. Like, can I release other people's thoughts about me? Totally. They're gonna think whatever. They're gonna think. Even if I do all the combos right, forever, you're still gonna. Somebody's gonna be like, I can't control it.
[00:22:28] Speaker B: I can't control that.
[00:22:29] Speaker A: Yeah, good luck. Exactly. So that's part of it. But another thing that I found kind of unlocked that.
That challenge of camera dancer, classroom vulnerability was thinking how much cooler I am. No offense, cameras, but I am made of blood and guts and all of my life experiences. And this device right here, albeit gorgeous and very well engineered, is just glass and plastic.
[00:22:59] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:23:01] Speaker A: I'm so much cooler than that thing.
But when you Think, oh my God, this is going to determine my future. This is forever. This is timeless. Then yeah, of course you're going to freeze up. But I. This is fine. It's. It's totally. It's an awesome tool. Also I love.
[00:23:20] Speaker B: It's worth embracing at some point versus kind of being afraid of it, I think. And I think because we think, oh, everything on camera lives forever and whatever. But I can laugh about it later. I'm going to laugh about it later.
[00:23:30] Speaker A: And shit moves so fast. People stop thinking or seeing and yeah, yeah, okay. Did not know a conversation was going to go there. I have a couple directions. I know I want to go. I love flow state and this is going very well. So you know, listen, don't you want to date me? I'm going to be the one on a date. That's like, how well is this going?
[00:23:50] Speaker B: How this is fun. Oh, are you having a good time?
[00:23:54] Speaker A: Are you having a good time?
[00:23:56] Speaker B: Comment.
[00:23:57] Speaker A: This is going well, right? I think I've been spending. I've been spending a lot of time with Toni Basel and she will say some shit like that. I think we're done. This isn't really going well or like I really like how this is going. Do you want to, you want to keep going? Should we go to Ralph's and get some groceries?
And I'm like, yeah, dude, there's no world in which I'm saying no to you and Ralph's. Okay, here is something I do want to know.
I'm a big feelings person.
[00:24:26] Speaker B: Uh huh.
[00:24:27] Speaker A: And you and I just shared the feeling of like where are the moves? Desperate feeling. But I also know what it's like.
This is a gift to land in a place where the people that you have once really admired are now looking to you.
[00:24:46] Speaker B: Oh my God.
[00:24:47] Speaker A: And I would love to hear about a moment, a story, a time and how it feels to now be the person that your heroes are looking to. For what to do and how to do it.
[00:24:59] Speaker B: Oh my goodness. Even not even just, even not even just to look at me and how. But more like looking at me and being like wow. You know what I mean?
[00:25:09] Speaker A: That too.
[00:25:10] Speaker B: That like I just had a story like this that just happened like a few days ago we were in London and we were doing. We just got the UK leg for Sabrina's tour. Like the second leg of the tour of Short and Sweet Random just at the Brits. And then we had a Dublin show and then we did Birmingham and then two London shows at 02 and on my way back from Birmingham Am I saying that right? Is it. It's almost not Birmingham.
[00:25:37] Speaker A: I think. I think I'm trying to. Out there, they're like, birmingham.
[00:25:39] Speaker B: Yeah, I'm trying to. Okay, Birmingham.
[00:25:41] Speaker A: Like Buckingham Palace.
[00:25:42] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, there I was. Not Birmingham. But on the way back to London, I get a text from Gilbert, who I freaking admire. Yes.
[00:25:55] Speaker A: Huh.
[00:25:57] Speaker B: Saying, hey, girl, what's up? Me and Janet want to come to the show. Janet Jackson.
Uh huh huh. Who?
[00:26:12] Speaker A: BRB.
[00:26:14] Speaker B: Like, Jackson.
[00:26:18] Speaker A: Ms. Jackson, if you're nasty.
[00:26:19] Speaker B: And Gil, are you. Are you crazy? Are you crazy?
[00:26:23] Speaker A: Cool.
[00:26:24] Speaker B: What? Cool. So. Oh, my goodness. So. And it. And not for nothing, like, I felt like the plug because Sabrina was like, oh, my God, Janice coming. Had no idea. Like, I was the one that hooked it up. Like, you know what I mean? Not for nothing, but I'm like, that's cool. So. Oh, my God. So hooked it up. Like, security hit me up. He was like, yeah, this is Terry, her guy, whatever, blah, blah. Put it with management. And she said, they were like, we got a suite for you. We have everything set up. She's like, no, I want to sit in front of house. Front of house. Her and her guy, her dean and Gil, front of house, behind all the audio in the. Like, I'm just like, okay, sit where you. They were like, do what you want, girl. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're Janet Jackson. Like, whatever. Like, it's fine when I tell you, like, just. Just the fact that. Because Gil's been like, my. Like, I've. I've known him since I was like, 16 because he used to do monsters of hip hop and I used to sneak in class because I had no money and I was always just trying to take or whatever. But he's known me Jaquil, Sean. Like, we all grew up together. So I've known him forever, but I've always been, like, in awe of him. Just his movement and his facility and just his demeanor and like, I don't know, it's just he's phenomenal to me. And I remember, you know, when he saw our New Year's show, he hit me up then for New Year's, and I was just like, wow. Like, he was like, you know, you are amazing. Like, this is phenomenal. So then now he's like, I want to come to the show and Janet wants to come, and we want to see everything. So I was like, this is crazy.
[00:27:49] Speaker A: What is life?
[00:27:50] Speaker B: It was insane.
[00:27:51] Speaker A: How did it. Like, what. What is the feeling? Could you name it? What's that feeling?
[00:27:54] Speaker B: Well, at first I was like, cringing. Like, y'all better get it right. Okay, here we go. Mind you, I didn't. They didn't hear that. I'm always like, great. Like, y'all go off. Like. I definitely had notes before that show. So let's clean this up. Let's lock this in. You know, just gills on the way. Janet's front and dinner. So let's get it together. Okay. Great job. Great job. Great job. Let's stick to the script. It's been, you know, stick to the script.
[00:28:17] Speaker A: We're not new shit tonight.
[00:28:18] Speaker B: We're not trying any of that. Be here when I'm here. Let's do what we learned the first day.
[00:28:23] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:28:23] Speaker B: Let's figure it out.
[00:28:24] Speaker A: Okay. How often are you on the road with them?
[00:28:26] Speaker B: So when we first started, I did, like, the first five, six shows with them, just to kind of make sure everything was.
[00:28:30] Speaker A: And then you wave them off back home. Is there a dance captain?
[00:28:33] Speaker B: Nope. Gotta have money for that.
[00:28:35] Speaker A: Mm. Yeah. We never. We didn't have. With jt. We didn't have an official one. Like, no one was paid more.
[00:28:41] Speaker B: I think if it was a longer tour, like, if it was going like, a year or two, maybe, like, if it didn't stop at a certain time and then pick back up, maybe. But yeah, no. Call me if y'all need something to be.
[00:28:50] Speaker A: Okay. So do you go out when they have a new stage or a venue that requires special.
[00:28:55] Speaker B: So this. This. This leg is. Everything's the same except one number. Like, we switched one out. We put a new One of her new songs in, and so I had to choreograph that and stage it and then clean up pretty much things that hadn't been touched for a few months. So that was cool. So I stayed for, like, the first four shows on this one, and I just got back yesterday, so, yeah, it was.
[00:29:15] Speaker A: Welcome back. That's fun. That's a great story.
[00:29:16] Speaker B: Oh, it's awesome. But I couldn't. But look. Yeah. Like, Gil and. And Janet and them. And then it was so dope because she's. She was one of the only artists that seen the show and came back and thanked everybody. Like, she was like, y'all are so awesome. Like, I'm like, that's how you're. That's why you're, like, scary.
[00:29:31] Speaker A: You've been doing this timeless. That's why.
[00:29:33] Speaker B: This is why. And her aura had everyone just stand still.
[00:29:36] Speaker A: Like, yeah, there are people that you feel into a room.
[00:29:39] Speaker B: Oh, my God. That. Sorry. That is so.
[00:29:42] Speaker A: She's one of them. Oh, she's special.
[00:29:44] Speaker B: It's. It's really. It's very present, and I'm just like, man, I didn't. I almost started stumbling over my words.
[00:29:49] Speaker A: What was. What was your exchange like?
[00:29:51] Speaker B: I was like, oh, my God, thank you. So she was like, it was really, really great. Like, I loved every bit of it. It was so awesome. I was like, thank you so much. Yeah, they. Yeah, they were so.
And I said, okay, let me get out of here. Gil. Yeah.
[00:30:03] Speaker A: Yeah. Gil, help.
Oh, I love that. I'm so glad that you got to.
[00:30:09] Speaker B: It was such a moment like that. So, yeah, I love the fact that my mentors that I've looked up to have really zoned in and seen, like, things that. Cause I'm not doing it for anything. I'm just doing it because it moves me. And I'm just in that intention versus trying to be or trying to gain or trying to do whatever. I think it's just more of a release, and I'm just here to do what I've been told to do.
[00:30:35] Speaker A: So if, like, enjoyment and ease and, like.
[00:30:42] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:30:44] Speaker A: It sounds like a lifetime love of the thing.
[00:30:47] Speaker B: Yeah, well, yeah, it's more. It feels like a purpose. Like, I'm not. I'm listening now to things that I.
[00:30:52] Speaker A: You're a vessel.
[00:30:54] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:30:54] Speaker A: It's moving through you, and you're doing this 100. How does the business management part of it come into your life? Do you have a tight relationship with your agents? Do you have a manager? Do you have. Because I. I don't. Not. Not that. Not that there's a banality there. Not that you are either a vessel or a business. Like, it's not that way at all. But I oftentimes get overwhelmed when I'm trying to do the fun art free thing.
[00:31:28] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:31:29] Speaker A: Because I also am, turns out, very particular about how next steps should be handled and how business should be done.
I guess maybe I'm just curious about how you balance those two ideas.
[00:31:42] Speaker B: I've. It's been. It has definitely been a balance I have. Last year, I think, was probably the biggest or the not hardest. I don't want to say hardest. Most challenging. Yeah. And fullest. But challenging as far as, like, where my business was concerned and, like, having to manage, you know, choreographing and doing all those things, you know, multiple gigs. Yeah, it was.
[00:32:04] Speaker A: That was probably the overlapping sometimes.
[00:32:06] Speaker B: Yeah. But mostly just relationships. It's like business relationships and learning who people are seeing, you know, people for who they are. Learning how to trust, learning how to disconnect when it's time to disconnect. Learning people are going to be who they are and not being moved by it so much or because I'm a big empath, too. So I feel energy is very much. And if it's heavy, I'm going to. You know, that red flag will go off really quickly, which I'm grateful for, because the women's intuition is a lifesaver, and it's a game changer. So I'm grateful for that. But it was, I think those trying times and, like, going through those relationships that don't end up, you know, lasting or they end up surprising you in some negative ways have to happen. So you learn it because you're always covered. I feel like you're always going to be okay. But it was definitely a challenge. It was a few tears. It was a few things. It was like, okay, I've learned now from this that I have to kind of move a little bit differently. But I think what the great. The best thing about that experience for me was now I know how to handle everything on my own if I have to.
[00:33:17] Speaker A: Ah.
[00:33:18] Speaker B: So now it becomes more of a privilege for someone to do that for me now.
[00:33:22] Speaker A: Nice.
[00:33:23] Speaker B: And I can actually be the one to still do it, but I just. I'm. I'm now giving it to someone else to do, so. So I don't have to have that load on me, but I'm still tapped in, like, I have to, because I. Again, it's just. It's a hard. It's a business that you really just can't give all of your trust to anybody.
Not for nothing or it takes as.
[00:33:41] Speaker A: Long to delegate a task and then give notes on that thing on how that was done as just doing it yourself 100%. Sometimes I prefer to do every step of it myself.
[00:33:50] Speaker B: No, I mean, I've come from having to do everything. So letting go a little bit of the responsibility in certain places has been a new thing for me. But I do appreciate it when I can be like, okay, actually, okay, this is great. I can. Now I know I can do this, or I can actually bring someone in.
[00:34:05] Speaker A: And do this off. Actually would love to not have to do that every day.
[00:34:08] Speaker B: But I'm so, like. Because I'm so ocd, I'm like, what is it? What's happening? What's going on?
[00:34:13] Speaker A: You like to have your hand on all the.
[00:34:14] Speaker B: Yeah. Especially when it comes to my business, like choreography and stuff. I'm kind of the same way. I don't think I'm really in that space to really.
I don't wanna say share, but I wanna challenge myself to see if I can do it all first before I'm like, you know what? I can't. Let me bring somebody else in here to do that. And I'm humble enough to say that when it's necessary.
[00:34:35] Speaker A: Absolutely.
[00:34:36] Speaker B: But I'd like to try it first. Like, I like to be like, okay, let me choreograph this. Let me do it. Let me see if I can do this.
[00:34:41] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:34:42] Speaker B: Boom. You know?
[00:34:43] Speaker A: So I know what you look for in a dancer. You're looking for that star quality. Somebody with that you obviously can see on the page, can handle shit, can learn fast, can adapt quickly, blah, blah, blah. What do you look for in an assistant? I'm. I'm saying this for all of the people that I'm sure would love to get in a room with you to be on your team.
[00:35:02] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:35:03] Speaker A: And I know everybody works so differently.
[00:35:05] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:35:06] Speaker A: Like, what I look for in an assistant is probably very different than what Mandy Moore looks for in an assistant or what you do.
[00:35:11] Speaker B: 100%.
[00:35:12] Speaker A: Yeah. I'm curious.
[00:35:13] Speaker B: My biggest thing for me. Cause I feel like. And it's funny because we'll talk about titles, too, because that's been a big thing, I think.
[00:35:23] Speaker A: Absolutely.
[00:35:24] Speaker B: But an assistant, like, say, an administrative assistant, I would need. I would want someone to be able to handle the emails and make decks and send off castings and do that kind of stuff. Anybody that's very savvy on that and kind of doing it in the layout that I would need it to look like. Especially when I know what the language looks like for the team, if I've been the one relaying it. So listening and being able to adapt to what I'm giving them, I guess adaptability. Oh, my God.
[00:35:54] Speaker A: Again, that pivot.
[00:35:56] Speaker B: Pivot and ask questions. I'm big on that. Like, if you don't know, ask. No, there's no such thing as a dumb question. I mean, sometimes.
[00:36:02] Speaker A: But there are smarter.
[00:36:05] Speaker B: I have grace for. Like I always say, no one knows what you know, and your common sense is not someone else's common sense. So I don't want to belittle you because I think you should know this, but you just might not.
[00:36:14] Speaker A: Yeah. But there are also. And I have a podcast up. I'm very pluggy today. There are also questions that reveal how little you know, and then there are questions that reveal how much you know.
[00:36:25] Speaker B: Oh, my goodness.
[00:36:26] Speaker A: Hey. The Excel. Excel spreadsheet works like this, where every cell has A blah, blah, blah, which makes the casting deck look like this. I'm not sure how you want it done. Can you show me how that works.
[00:36:35] Speaker B: In Google sheets or whatever? That part. You know what I mean? Let that kind of stuff. So. And as far as administrative goes, that's kind of where I'm at with that assistant wise, like for choreography.
And I say assistant meaning not to be making up choreography, but to retain. Pretty much.
[00:36:53] Speaker A: Yep. Or to transfer it on or to.
[00:36:55] Speaker B: When I have. For a choreographer's assistant, I would like them to be a canvas and be able. I like to paint. And then you retain the paint and be able to relay the paint to everyone else.
[00:37:06] Speaker A: You don't need to have brushes.
[00:37:08] Speaker B: Cause I'm going to forget everything once I spit it out. And that's been the hardest for me, like, especially choreographing. Like, I think when it comes to, like, if I'm an assistant with someone, I can do that a bit and I can whatever and figure it out. But when I'm spitting things out, oh, my God, I'm. It's done. What was it again? Y'all? Come on. And I would like so for me that, like, I work with Ryan Ramirez. Love her down. Yes, she's a robot.
[00:37:32] Speaker A: Yes. She can hold and pick fast.
[00:37:34] Speaker B: She will remember. I don't know what's in that coffee of hers, babe, but remember every single thing from three days ago. And I'm like, damn, I wasn't even here. And I was here.
[00:37:45] Speaker A: Wow.
[00:37:45] Speaker B: It's crazy. So retention for me, because that's like, where my downfall is as far as choreography. I need that. And I need. I'm always big about communication when it comes to the dancers. Being able to relate things nicely, being able to receive questions, being able to adapt in those ways with people with different energies and, you know, just really being a team player. And again, I like to hold my room in the highest of, you know, just positive energy.
[00:38:12] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:38:12] Speaker B: So if you can carry that and not bring your bad day here. Yeah, I'm cool. Like, we can rock. You know what I mean?
[00:38:17] Speaker A: There is this thing, listening to you speak about that is drawing my attention to this thing where you do want your supporting team to make up for what you lack, and yet you want them to be like you in energy, in professionalism, in, you know, the same way that you hire dancers to be an extension of the pop star, you hire your team to be an extension of you 100. To have similar values, to have similar energies.
[00:38:45] Speaker B: Yeah. Because they represent you. Especially if the team has never met you. You know what I mean? Like, they're going to look at them like, okay, this is who this person is because of who you are pretty much bringing them in. So I'm like, you have to be the part again.
[00:38:58] Speaker A: You have to be the part. You have to be the same in ways, but different in the other ways.
[00:39:02] Speaker B: Still you. You know what I mean?
[00:39:03] Speaker A: Still you. And still I. I don't know. I. I find I like a check imbalance.
[00:39:11] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:39:12] Speaker A: I even like for different tastes. I like for. I don't like being agreed with all the. All the time.
[00:39:17] Speaker B: 100. Yeah. I need that.
[00:39:19] Speaker A: I. I like to consider different points of view, and I really do believe more minds, more brains, more better.
[00:39:27] Speaker B: 100. Yes. 100. Yeah. I'm. I'm with you.
[00:39:30] Speaker A: I'm a big. I don't like creating alone.
[00:39:32] Speaker B: How about you? Yeah. I like to ask opinions, like, especially with my team. Like, I like to say, what do you guys think about this? Or how do y'all feel? Did we repeat this already? Because I like to. I'll bring something back. Like, because the move is stuck in my head and my body. I'm like, I feel like I just did this. Yeah, you just did it. Okay, let's take it back.
[00:39:47] Speaker A: Can we talk about repeating steps of yours, by the way? Can we talk about it? Can we talk about Coachella? Can we talk about that breakdown? The Beyonce breakdown? I don't even know what to call it, but, you know the one that I'm talking about? I.
Very smart use of repetition, by the way. And when you're considering a stage the size of Coachella, you don't need a new move. Every count, actually, especially this, like, majorette vibe. Repetition is a part of the vocabulary. It's a part of the culture. It's a part of the collective energy. It's like, call, respond, call, respond. This is important, and I haven't seen it done that well, maybe ever.
[00:40:28] Speaker B: Girl.
[00:40:29] Speaker A: I was real about it.
[00:40:30] Speaker B: Let me tell you. Jaquel Nay and Chris Grant, like, let me tell you. We. When we get together, it is a time.
[00:40:36] Speaker A: Okay. It's a time.
[00:40:37] Speaker B: Oh, my God.
[00:40:38] Speaker A: Did you. How did the creation of that go? How.
[00:40:42] Speaker B: How did that for me? I mean, I can only speak for myself, but because it was given hbcu and it was given, you know, a culture thing, I felt it, you know, a privilege to be able to. To showcase that side, that a lot, that the world can see it on that. On that type of platform and. And to be true to it a bit. You Know, and, you know, for Bea to. To be, you know, implementing all these things with her music and it was just. I thought. I thought it was phenomenal, to be honest, like, to. To do that with and. And. And really bring the culture out like that, you know? Yeah, it was awesome. It was an awesome time.
[00:41:17] Speaker A: How many times have those moves come back into your sphere? Because I'm. That. That was a thing. Before TikTok, challenges were really a thing.
[00:41:26] Speaker B: Uh huh.
[00:41:27] Speaker A: But I know that choreography comes back a lot. Do you see it all the time?
[00:41:31] Speaker B: No, not as much anymore. No.
As far as, like, you know, I've seen people, like, try it or they'll ask to, like, I've had people want to learn it sometimes or whatever, but I don't know, maybe I'm just kind of. I've moved on a bit from it, but.
[00:41:45] Speaker A: What year was that?
[00:41:46] Speaker B: That was like, sheesh. 2018.
[00:41:50] Speaker A: 2018, I think. Or 2019.
[00:41:54] Speaker B: Homecoming? Yeah. Wow.
[00:41:56] Speaker A: This is a long time ago.
[00:41:58] Speaker B: Oh, my God. What's happening? What year is it now?
[00:42:03] Speaker A: Yo.
March. It's mid March.
[00:42:06] Speaker B: It's March. It's not even January.
[00:42:09] Speaker A: No, January was gone.
[00:42:11] Speaker B: January was the longest month, and it's the shortest month.
[00:42:13] Speaker A: And it was 400 years ago.
[00:42:15] Speaker B: February felt longer than January. February, and it's the shortest one.
[00:42:18] Speaker A: And that was weird. That was a Twilight Zone.
[00:42:20] Speaker B: I don't know what's going on. I can't take it.
[00:42:22] Speaker A: Okay, so let's talk about time really quick. What are you excited about in the future and what are you, like, can you give me another.
The moment with Gail and Janet was great, but can you give me, like, a pivotal shift moment from the past that changed the course of things for you?
Two very complex questions. Good luck.
[00:42:41] Speaker B: Oh, my goodness.
Well, I'll start. The future stuff that I'm looking forward to is just really all of the possibilities that are going to happen, I'm claiming, I guess I would love to do. A goal of mine was to be able to choreograph every award show that I've been a part of as a dancer, so I could.
[00:42:59] Speaker A: Oh, cool.
[00:42:59] Speaker B: I'd love to, like, have all of my laminates from one thing and then have like, the choreographer laminate at one point.
[00:43:04] Speaker A: That's so cool.
[00:43:04] Speaker B: I don't know why that's like a thing.
[00:43:06] Speaker A: Sorry, baby. Sorry, baby. She got excited for you. She was like, yes, do it.
[00:43:12] Speaker B: Yeah. That's always been like, a goal to do, like to have that. And then I'd love to do a Super bowl one day just because I don't know. I've fallen in love with like just really big platforms and stages and like I always like, if I get an award show and we're talking with creative and stuff, I'm like, what can we not do?
[00:43:32] Speaker A: Like, ah, tell me my first question. Where are the limits?
[00:43:35] Speaker B: Where are my boundaries? Like where? And I did that. It's funny. For Sabrina's pre show, we did the MTV pre show before she got the VMA show.
[00:43:43] Speaker A: Oh, cool.
[00:43:43] Speaker B: It was a year. A year in turn. Like it was. It was one year we did the opening of the award show and then that next year we had Moon man and a full stage.
[00:43:53] Speaker A: Cool.
[00:43:53] Speaker B: And I remember sitting on. We used to. We were standing on the actual layout of the main stage and a piece of it was the size of the pre show stage that we had. And I was like, it's so crazy how things turn around. Like just with being, you know, with manifesting and just believing in it. And I remember telling her, we're going to get this mainstage. Like, watch, like mark my words, want to get it. And we got it.
[00:44:15] Speaker A: So like, how long have you been working with her?
[00:44:17] Speaker B: It's been about four years now.
[00:44:19] Speaker A: Cool.
[00:44:19] Speaker B: Yeah, it's been great.
[00:44:20] Speaker A: Yeah. Her trajectory is fast and really fun to watch. Like I said though, that Grammys performance felt really classic and it felt like solid. Not that I ever felt. I love the VMA performance. Speaking of gravity and Moonman. Yeah. Oh, shit. I. It was really fun. It was really smart. She was very charming. But the number of moving pieces involved in this Grammy shit, you can't just be cute and hit an eight count here and there and interact with your backup dancers. She was on it.
[00:44:53] Speaker B: No, she was so on it. And she's.
[00:44:55] Speaker A: And there's a lot of room to be off it.
[00:44:56] Speaker B: She's so tapped in. She knows her stuff. Like she had this idea like she knew exactly what she wanted. And I remember feeling like, you know, I'm like, I don't know, like the first. When I first got it, I was like, you want to mess up on purpose? Like, I didn't get it at first, but then me, we tap in so fast. Cause she's a Taurus too. And I don't know, I just. I was like, got you. Okay, now I see where we're going with it. And for that stage to be such a prestige stage, like to be. To pull off something like that, like you already know, it's going to raise the eyebrows, but it's also going to entertain and especially with the fires and stuff going on. And it felt like the perfect thing.
[00:45:34] Speaker A: To be doing something really.
Like, it was something that got people rooting for her. Yes. But it was funny. You have to be really unassailable. You have to be.
[00:45:45] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:45:45] Speaker A: That's not what I meant to say. You have to be untouchable.
[00:45:47] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:45:48] Speaker A: To pull off humor.
[00:45:48] Speaker B: Yeah. Because she's funny.
[00:45:50] Speaker A: Otherwise, the joke doesn't. Is not funny.
[00:45:51] Speaker B: You gotta learn. I was like, you have to. You have to be bad. Really? Well, yes.
[00:45:55] Speaker A: Like, and then you have to be really, really good.
[00:45:57] Speaker B: You gotta be good. And she nailed it.
[00:45:59] Speaker A: Oh, she's so good. It was so good.
[00:46:01] Speaker B: I think my biggest thing, though, with that, my favorite part was being able to tap. Like.
[00:46:06] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:46:07] Speaker B: Mind you. Like, I haven't tapped in eons. Like, I'm not a train tapper whatsoever. Like, at all.
[00:46:14] Speaker A: But you have shoes.
[00:46:15] Speaker B: I have. Oh, we'll have shoes down. Oh, my God. I have four pairs now. Just because I had to go through different ones. Like, I had to find my right size.
Spent money.
[00:46:24] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. Not cheap. It's like a musical instrument.
[00:46:27] Speaker B: The nice ones are great.
[00:46:28] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:46:29] Speaker B: Oh, my God.
[00:46:29] Speaker A: But I remember I have mine from high school, my K360s that are stacked. They're built up so they're loud.
[00:46:34] Speaker B: Oh, my God.
[00:46:35] Speaker A: Which makes making mistakes really embarrassing.
[00:46:37] Speaker B: Oh, my God. What? Like, I was. I. I felt the challenge of that, though, because I could have easily called anyone in to come and just choreograph this tap section and figure it out. But I know, like, I wanted to, like, say, no, I can do this. Like, I can.
[00:46:51] Speaker A: And I did that. All of that.
[00:46:52] Speaker B: I did all of that. Like, I had Brittany Parks, the one and only Brittney Parks, come in. She was like, oh, let me learn this girl. And she's popping on her shoes. And, like, I was like, yep. I got a stamp from the one and only. So it was so dope, like. And again, it was another challenge where, you know, I. I wanted to. I didn't want to give it to anyone. Not to say that I don't, you know, want to, you know.
[00:47:12] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.
[00:47:12] Speaker B: Ask for help. But I wanted to try that on my own and really, like, go for it and nail it. Like, freaking do it.
[00:47:19] Speaker A: It was fantastic.
[00:47:20] Speaker B: Oh, my God. It was the best part. It was my favorite part.
[00:47:22] Speaker A: Okay, so award shows, you're going to do them all as a choreographer, the same way you've done as a dancer, which I'm assuming is like, our basics, right? Billboard VMAs.
[00:47:31] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:47:31] Speaker A: Have you done Academy Awards?
[00:47:33] Speaker B: Haven't done Academy Awards yet. I haven't done. That's Oscars. I haven't done the Emmys.
[00:47:38] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:47:39] Speaker B: Oh, I do want to do Broadway one day. I'm just going to. I keep saying it when I do little interviews. I want to. Not little interviews. I'm saying like interviews.
[00:47:46] Speaker A: I mean, we're literally in my little living room.
[00:47:48] Speaker B: But no, but like, I don't mean little interviews. I mean like interviews. Talking about things like, I always say, like, I want to do Broadway one day and a movie and you know, to really kind of. I just love performance art and I like the storytelling behind it all. And that's also why I'm a big fan of yours because. Oh, my God.
[00:48:08] Speaker A: Thanks. Because I tell stories with my face all the time.
[00:48:13] Speaker B: No, but it's just so, like, it's. I don't know, like I went to.
I always say the name the wrong name, but that is that 360.
It's like a. It's like a carnival almost, but it's not carnival. It's a lot cooler.
[00:48:26] Speaker A: Oh, Congress.
[00:48:26] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:48:27] Speaker A: Yeah, Yeah.
[00:48:27] Speaker B: I am obsessed with that show. I'm obsessed.
[00:48:30] Speaker A: So well curated. So well done. It's very.
[00:48:32] Speaker B: So like, I don't know, it's just amazing. I would love to do a piece there one day.
[00:48:37] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:48:38] Speaker B: Oh, my God.
[00:48:39] Speaker A: Oh, my God. I'm sending an email.
[00:48:40] Speaker B: It's such a freedom. It's just a place to just be, you know, to do whatever. And I've seen some. This last one I went to last year, end of last year, but it was just phenomenal to me. And I don't know if it's because my lens changed as far as how I view telling stories with like, with movement or just even with script or with whatever. Because I'm a big movie buff.
[00:49:02] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:49:03] Speaker B: Film down, film down.
[00:49:06] Speaker A: Okay. Is that a direction you want to head as well?
[00:49:08] Speaker B: Absolutely. Oh, my goodness.
[00:49:11] Speaker A: Getting a script as a choreographer is one of my favorite things. It's one of my favorite things.
[00:49:19] Speaker B: It's a treat.
[00:49:20] Speaker A: Really, really love it.
[00:49:21] Speaker B: It's an Easter egg, actually.
[00:49:23] Speaker A: That is another part of the choreographer's job that you never get trained for. What? But it's like that one. I love. I less love casting. I way don't love budgeting dancer dollar hours and how. But I really love getting a script and I love that you do as well. And I want to see you in that space more often.
[00:49:41] Speaker B: Like when we.
[00:49:42] Speaker A: I mean, you're very good at pop star.
[00:49:43] Speaker B: Oh, but let's Even just with Sabrina, like, when we did just coming up with the short and sweet stuff, like, because of how the show is already curated around storytelling.
[00:49:53] Speaker A: Is the show scripted? Like, more or less.
[00:49:55] Speaker B: That's how I created it. Like, when it came to just. It wasn't. It's not given a song.
No, it's not for me. Like, everybody had a script. Like, everyone has. Like, there's this act, too, where, you know, it's a cocktail hour and the curtain goes up and, you know, I have Mikey, which I love, and Jazz, and this guy named Jade, one of the dancers, and they're coming. They have that, you know, that Fosse one, and they. To the front, the camera just capturing them right here. And then they go. And it's just like they're in the cocktail party, and I have one guy on the side being that drunk dancer, just dancing all over the place. And I have Natsuki, like, oh, yeah, that's good. Yeah, that's everybody. And then I have another couple coming out of the bathroom at the top saying, oh, this is really nice. Oh, yeah, look at this. Like. Like, they're like, out of towners or whatever. Like, everybody has a character, and everybody has a story. And it's the fact that it's going through the entire show like that. Like, you kind of see the rise and fall of everybody's, like, line that was the. The best part of making that tour.
[00:50:55] Speaker A: Like, the movement that speaks to my very.
[00:50:57] Speaker B: It was the fight. So great. It was so great. That was my favorite part, because I.
[00:51:02] Speaker A: Think, like, I don't know, I was talking to Jillian and Megan about this, actually. Love Jillian. Oh, my God, I'm so proud to be a seaweed sister. I just have to say that out loud. I really love us, and that's okay to say that.
We're talking about, like, how long has it been since we really got jacked to do eight counts? And it's been a long time. Like, a long time. But there was a time when I was like, ooh, yes, combos. And it's years away. I can almost not remember it. I love having a character. I love supporting a greater vision. I love movement that is fueled by feeling. I love movement that is fueled by imagination.
[00:51:51] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:51:52] Speaker A: I love. I mean, it's been a long time since I got excited about eights for eight's sake. Now there is a time and place for it.
[00:51:58] Speaker B: Yes, 100%.
[00:51:59] Speaker A: But from the sounds of it, you are also more interested in.
[00:52:03] Speaker B: I love it.
[00:52:03] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:52:04] Speaker B: Yeah, I love it. That's the Count itself to me. Okay, great. Having to do eights. Like, I think because not for nothing, I just learning as a choreographer or being on this side, I don't think I need to put a class routine on stage first of all, because if my artist is not doing it, what's the point?
What's the point?
[00:52:22] Speaker A: Say that for the people at the back.
[00:52:24] Speaker B: Not for nothing. If she's not doing it, what's. What's the point? You know what I mean? Like, not to say that it's everyone who's doing those eight counts aren't necessary because we all are. But why am I stressing everyone out?
[00:52:40] Speaker A: Why are we or burning people out?
[00:52:43] Speaker B: Why?
[00:52:43] Speaker A: If we're Talking about a 60, 75 minute show, a 90 minute show, why for a year, why?
[00:52:48] Speaker B: I'm not doing that. Are you crazy?
[00:52:50] Speaker A: Why?
[00:52:50] Speaker B: I don't even have all the count. I don't care to give autumn counts. Not, not for, not for that gig. Like, you have to know your artist. You have to know who you're working for. You have to know what it's giving, what, what, what you're at, what they're asking for. And for me, to be honest, my thing is always about the shot where. If I'm sitting in what seat? What, what am I getting from this side? What am I getting from here? What am I getting from up? How can I create that same feeling from. From what I see on a horror film and I'm like this on, on a live stage, like, what can I figure that out?
[00:53:22] Speaker A: You know what I mean? Yes.
[00:53:23] Speaker B: How can I go back and forth between the feeling of enjoy from Broadway but still have the feeling of a pop show.
[00:53:29] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:53:29] Speaker B: You know what I mean? And not have to have pyro and fire. I mean, not fire, pyro and fire, but water and like pyro, you know, like. And not have to like fly across the room, you know what I mean?
[00:53:38] Speaker A: Right, right.
[00:53:39] Speaker B: We don't have to do that. We can just do confetti and have a light up fireplace, like, you know what I mean? And it'd be all more in a Broadway theater kind of vibe, but still pop, you know what I mean? Like give a little lift, give a little whatever, you know what I mean?
[00:53:52] Speaker A: It's about, it's about scaling, scaling things appropriately. And the same way that you asked production. What are my limits here?
[00:53:59] Speaker B: What are my limits?
[00:54:00] Speaker A: We're silently also asking the pop star the same thing. Silently though.
[00:54:03] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:54:04] Speaker A: We're learning them and we're asking ourselves, okay, what are my limits here?
[00:54:07] Speaker B: I want you on a motorcycle, babe.
[00:54:08] Speaker A: Come on.
[00:54:09] Speaker B: You can get on mine.
Yo. She used to make fun of me. I was like, I need you on a motorcycle riding across the stage at MTV Awards.
[00:54:19] Speaker A: 100%.
[00:54:20] Speaker B: Do it with a kitty hat, little helmet.
[00:54:23] Speaker A: When did that imagery come up in your mind? How did. When did that happen?
[00:54:28] Speaker B: Well, when we did Fast Times, that was the first gig I was with her on when we did the music video for her. And she's. There's this thing with her on this bike or whatever. And I was like. And then we did the pre show and I said, we have to do Fast Times and we have to do the most.
[00:54:41] Speaker A: You have to have the bike and.
[00:54:42] Speaker B: We have to take this helmet off and you have a wig that's like a mile long and it comes off and you're back into this blind. It's giving Charlie's Angels.
[00:54:50] Speaker A: It's so good. Okay. And references. So do you attribute maybe your cinema.
Cinemaphile, 100% to, like, kind of where you get some of your ideas?
[00:55:01] Speaker B: 100%. Yeah. Big pulp Fiction.
[00:55:03] Speaker A: Let's just Come on. Come on.
[00:55:06] Speaker B: All the oldies, everything. Like, I'm. Again, I think dance has always been a passion of mine and movement and just sound and just music. But it's always been like just a beginning platform to get to that. Because movies, for me, that's my favorite pastime. Like just watching TV and film. Like, I'll turn on a show as my white noise to get ready for it if I want to go out or whatever or go to sleep. Like, I'm just watching something just a little bit.
[00:55:30] Speaker A: I love that. Whether you're gonna go out or go in. Yeah, it's the same pre show. Yeah, it's amazing.
[00:55:36] Speaker B: Yeah. You know how you get, like, girls are going out, you put on some music, you have a little drink. Yeah, I'm putting. I'm putting on Frasier or Golden Girls and I'm getting ready for my.
[00:55:43] Speaker A: Did not see either of those coming.
[00:55:47] Speaker B: What? Absolutely.
[00:55:48] Speaker A: Frasier. Frasier. I never. I couldn't get in. Absolutely. I couldn't get in.
[00:55:53] Speaker B: Well, sometimes you don't have any choice. You have to just try something. Like I tried Cheers and I was like.
But I got into it.
[00:56:00] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:56:00] Speaker B: I got into it later. I got into it later. Okay, this is a spin off.
[00:56:02] Speaker A: We're entering now. This is perfect segue. We're entering the rapid fire portion of the show.
[00:56:07] Speaker B: Oh, goodness.
[00:56:07] Speaker A: Okay, answer from the gut. We're going to start really easy. Gets, like, slightly more challenging as we go. Coffee or tea.
[00:56:14] Speaker B: Tea.
[00:56:15] Speaker A: Dogs or cats?
[00:56:16] Speaker B: Dogs.
[00:56:16] Speaker A: Good. She's listening. She's asleep. But she's always listening to the answer to that question. Day, morning, or nighttime rehearsals?
[00:56:24] Speaker B: Morning.
[00:56:25] Speaker A: Ooh. Are you more of a choreography or a freestyle fan?
[00:56:31] Speaker B: In what? In what way?
[00:56:33] Speaker A: Like, I don't know, just answer from the guy.
[00:56:36] Speaker B: Freestyle. Sorry. Okay.
[00:56:38] Speaker A: Okay. Are you a hair up or hair down?
[00:56:43] Speaker B: Up.
[00:56:44] Speaker A: If you could sing, like, anyone, who would it be? Ooh.
[00:56:50] Speaker B: Jasmine Sullivan.
[00:56:53] Speaker A: Yes. Yes.
[00:56:55] Speaker B: Almost thinking that out.
[00:56:56] Speaker A: Great call.
What was the last song you belted out loud.
[00:57:03] Speaker B: Today in the car?
Oh, my goodness. Oh, it's. I forgot her name. But it's an old school. It's. Then I Just Got to be free.
[00:57:14] Speaker A: Oh, yes.
[00:57:15] Speaker B: Yes. Oh, wow.
[00:57:16] Speaker A: That's up there. Wow.
[00:57:18] Speaker B: I was screaming.
[00:57:22] Speaker A: If you really had to listen to one album and only one album for the rest of time, what would it be?
[00:57:27] Speaker B: Michael Jackson, of course. And I think it would be Top of My Head, probably Dangerous. But I just love Heartbreak Hotel, so whatever album that's on.
[00:57:36] Speaker A: Good call. I was gonna say you give me off the wall vibes, kind of.
[00:57:40] Speaker B: Yeah, that's up there. But Thriller has some good ones, too. I'm just.
[00:57:44] Speaker A: Billie Jean is on Thriller.
[00:57:45] Speaker B: Yeah. PYT lady in My Life. It might be Thriller.
[00:57:49] Speaker A: Okay. Yeah. Well, not a bad answer. That's interesting because mine would probably be Purple Red.
[00:57:55] Speaker B: My mom's a Purple rain gal.
[00:57:56] Speaker A: Yeah. It's so good. That album is so good.
[00:57:59] Speaker B: So fire.
[00:57:59] Speaker A: It's so good.
[00:58:00] Speaker B: It's a good time. That's a good time.
[00:58:02] Speaker A: So we know the album. What about the movie? You could only watch one movie for the rest of the time. Do you know what my first thought was? And this is weird because I don't watch this movie, like that elf.
Fully seasonal film. And I just. As I asked you, the first thought was that damn narwhal and Will Ferrell eating Eminem chocolate syrup spaghetti.
[00:58:26] Speaker B: I think the first movie that comes to my head is Death Becomes Her.
[00:58:29] Speaker A: Wow. Great choice.
[00:58:31] Speaker B: Oh, my God. Bruce Willis is the funniest person in that movie to me. Oh, my God.
[00:58:35] Speaker A: He's like, great choice. She's gonna be furious.
Great choice. Okay, a couple more questions. You get to collaborate with anyone, living or dead, dancer or not. Who is it?
[00:58:47] Speaker B: Oh, my goodness.
[00:58:48] Speaker A: I know. That's a really hard one. Shoot.
[00:58:53] Speaker B: Oh, I think Mandy Moore comes to mind. Nice. Yeah. Love her.
I love her.
[00:59:00] Speaker A: You have so much fun.
[00:59:01] Speaker B: Oh, my goodness. I love her. I think I've met her maybe once or twice.
I don't know if I Was. It was a job. I think it was during the pandemic or something. We were doing, like, those award shows when they were just filming it and whatever.
[00:59:14] Speaker A: Yep, yep.
[00:59:14] Speaker B: And I think Nolan was choreographing on it.
[00:59:17] Speaker A: Oh, yeah.
[00:59:18] Speaker B: I think she came in maybe. I just. I can't remember, but I just remember being like.
[00:59:23] Speaker A: She's also an energy that you feel walking the room. Yeah.
[00:59:26] Speaker B: I think. Yeah. I feel like we did meet, but I don't know. And that job got shut down because someone got sick. Like the stylist or whatever didn't. But I made more money from quarantine and then. Wow. Actually working on the gig, which is crazy. Yeah. They were paying.
[00:59:39] Speaker A: Wow. What a time.
[00:59:41] Speaker B: We had to stay in the hotel and.
[00:59:43] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:59:43] Speaker B: We were getting checks.
[00:59:44] Speaker A: Wow. Yeah.
[00:59:45] Speaker B: You got paid for the test.
[00:59:46] Speaker A: Yes. What an awful test.
[00:59:48] Speaker B: They had that money out of nowhere. Where's the money now?
[00:59:50] Speaker A: Where's the money?
[00:59:52] Speaker B: Where's the money now?
[00:59:54] Speaker A: Anyone know?
[00:59:54] Speaker B: Where's Covid?
[00:59:55] Speaker A: Where's the COVID money?
[00:59:58] Speaker B: Because you had it, now you don't got it.
[01:00:00] Speaker A: Maybe that's where it went.
[01:00:01] Speaker B: Did it.
[01:00:02] Speaker A: All of it.
[01:00:04] Speaker B: There was a fund for it. Clearly.
[01:00:05] Speaker A: Times are wild. The money. Times are wild. And I'm very interested to see what happens in years to come. But I'm very hopeful for you. I'm very excited that you're gonna get to see Broadway, to see big silver screens. I just. I think the world of you and your talent, and I'm so grateful for you to be here.
[01:00:22] Speaker B: Thank you so much for having me. This was really great.
[01:00:24] Speaker A: I do have one more question for you, because it's the Words that Move Me podcast. I'm curious if there is a mantra or guiding principle or a proverb or a poem, like, what. What's your North Star?
[01:00:37] Speaker B: The words that move you.
I always tell myself, or I just remember that God dwells within me as me. And I always just ask for. Always ask God to speak to my vocal cords and think through my brain. None of me and all of you. In Jesus name, Amen. I always say that before I enter a room and just let it rock, so.
[01:00:57] Speaker A: And it's getting you teary right now. Even something that you've probably said hundreds of times or ruminated on hundreds of times still has such a deep anger.
[01:01:07] Speaker B: Yeah, it's just something my mom always says. We always, you know, we pray about things. And again, like, last year was a really big year, and I was faced with a lot of just different energies. And, you know, I just. I don't know. I give grace to God always. And it's beautiful how unconditional that love is and how you feel. I just feel him, like right here all the time. And, you know, I'm just. I'm grateful. I'm so grateful.
[01:01:33] Speaker A: That is a beautiful note to end on. Thank you for that. Thank you for you and all that you do.
[01:01:37] Speaker B: So much.
[01:01:37] Speaker A: Thank you Listener Viewer Please subscribe Leave Reviews Ratings Share the podcast if you're loving it, and of course, keep it super funky.
This podcast was produced by me with the help of many Big, big love to our Executive assistant and editor, Riley Higgins. Our Communications Manager is Fiona Small, with additional support from Ori Vajadares. Our music is by Max Winnie, logo and brand design by Bri Reitz. And if you're digging the podcast, leave a review and rating and please share. Also, if you want to connect with me and the many marvelous members of the Words that Move Me community, visit Words that Move Me. Com. If you're simply curious to know more about me and the work that I do outside of this podcast, visit thedanawilson.com.
