191. Max Pham: Finding Identity and Balance After Tour

November 22, 2023 01:00:46
191. Max Pham: Finding Identity and Balance After Tour
Words That Move Me with Dana Wilson
191. Max Pham: Finding Identity and Balance After Tour

Nov 22 2023 | 01:00:46


Show Notes

Dana Wilson hosts Max Pham this week on the Words That Move Me Podcast! Max has been climbing the dance industry ladder, stopping off to dance on tour with Ariana Grande and Justin Timberlake and to choreograph in Netflix’s Dance 100. Max and her talk about life after the high-up and glorious moments and what it looks like to climb back down that ladder.


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Episode Transcript

[00:00:02] Speaker A: Hello. Hello. I'm Dana Wilson, and this is words that move me. I move people. I choreograph movies, music videos, and TV shows. I dance for pop stars. I coach some really awesome people. But what I truly love is to learn, share, and inspire clarity and confidence in my fellow movers and shakers. So if you are navigating, getting a creative career, or simply want to live a little more funky and free, then settle in, because this is for you. Hello. Hello. I'm Dana. Welcome to words that move me this week is. I say it all the time, but I'm genuinely stoked that you're here because I love sharing conversations with people that I love and admire. And today's guest, Max Fam, is a person who has become family. I admire his work. I admire his work ethic. I admire the way he shows up for himself, his friends. A very thoughtful person with a lot of great thoughts to share. Specifically, today we are talking about touring, audition mentality, life on the road, life finding balance, navigating the in between space between dancer and other. We really go in on some big, important concepts, so I want to get right to it. But first, we're going to celebrate some wins. I start every episode with wins. You can do it. You can do it. Come on. Oh, no. I thought she was going to have a big, victorious jump up onto the chair. She's chilling. Today I am celebrating having booked a trip, a solo girls trip to Europe. I'm going to Madrid and to Paris, and for not nearly long enough, but I booked the flights. It is happening. I have carved out the time, cleared the calendar, and that is a huge win for me. That's what's up in my world. What are you celebrating? How have you cleared space for yourself? Hit me. Congratulations. I'm so glad that you're winning. Riz and I are thrilled for you. And she is thrilled to be licking the ever loving love out of my elbow pit right now. Who does that? Who just gets that into the elbow pit? Focused. We're focused. This conversation with Max Fam is solid gold. We talk a lot about the thoughts and the feels that get us through. So I hope this episode is as useful for you as it was enlightening for me. Without any further ado, enjoy the one and only Max fam. Welcome to the podcast, Max Fam. Oh, my God. Longtime friend, part time dance partner. We have not danced partnered nearly as much as I would like for us to dance partner. [00:03:04] Speaker B: Yeah, this is very true. [00:03:05] Speaker A: Can I voice that to you and you and the universe? Dancing with you is a treat. Being your friend is an even sweeter treater. Thank you for being here today. [00:03:15] Speaker B: Likewise. Thank you. It's been a long time coming. [00:03:17] Speaker A: It has. [00:03:17] Speaker B: Excited to finally be here. [00:03:19] Speaker A: Yeah. We've tried to do this a few times, and then you were away for a while, and then you couldn't talk about a certain dance competition for a while. And now you're here and able to talk about all the things. [00:03:29] Speaker B: Now it's all out on the floor. [00:03:30] Speaker A: Let's talk shop tradition on the podcast. And this is for better or for worse. I really love this part. The person in your seat usually hates this part. Introduce yourself. Tell us what you want us to know about you. [00:03:43] Speaker B: I guess this is open. [00:03:46] Speaker A: Yeah. We're going to do this for an hour. [00:03:48] Speaker B: Introduce myself. [00:03:49] Speaker A: Yes. [00:03:50] Speaker B: My name is Max Fam. I am a kid. Dude from Boise, Idaho. Small town, happy to be here. And a work in progress. [00:04:06] Speaker A: Oh, my God. [00:04:07] Speaker B: And forever a student of just life. [00:04:11] Speaker A: Whoa. [00:04:11] Speaker B: Yeah. A cancer. You are, I would say, like, a significant part of my being. I'm coming to learn that you're a feeler not to be so astrological. [00:04:23] Speaker A: Right. I almost got kicked out of a birthday party recently for voicing that. I don't really believe in astrology, but I also just did a podcast with Robert Green, and he's a cancer also. And we talked about. And I listen, I don't not believe in it, and I don't actively believe in it, but I do know about myself because I'm on the cusp of cancer and Leo. [00:04:50] Speaker B: Oh, when's your birthday? [00:04:52] Speaker A: July 21. [00:04:53] Speaker B: Okay. Oh, you are the cusp. [00:04:54] Speaker A: Like, I'm the cusp. Yeah. And I very much have the spotlight thing, the lion, the show. But I try to be tough on the outside. I am soft. [00:05:04] Speaker B: Soft shell crab. [00:05:05] Speaker A: Yeah, soft shell crab. I also carry my home on my back, and I think is one of the things that make us well suited for tour is this ability to kind of be comfortable and at home, wherever we are. Do you find that to be true? [00:05:18] Speaker B: Yeah, very true. Definitely. [00:05:21] Speaker A: So we did the man of the woods tour together. Ish. I was the stay at home swing. Was that your first world tour before that point? [00:05:31] Speaker B: No. [00:05:32] Speaker A: Help me. I just didn't do my homework at all. [00:05:37] Speaker B: No. Yeah. That was my first one with Justin. And even that one. That one only went, like, us and Europe. We didn't go anywhere, you know, so it was a United States and Europe tour, which. Yeah. And I did the two previous ones with. [00:05:53] Speaker A: That's right. And do you feel that it's a natural way for you to be. Could you sustain that? Is that a lifestyle that you want to have forever? I know a lot of dancers like, tour. Is it. That's the dream gig. [00:06:05] Speaker B: I mean, I will quickly jump to answering that, because that's a big part of the last four years of my life. I think I would answer that as no, because there was a reason I came to learn that it became increasingly difficult, because at that point, when we had started man of the woods, I was on the back of doing two massive, massive, two bigger tours with and. And before Ari, I did a small tour. So it kind of, like, rolled three tours before that. And in between the two Ari tours was a promo run. Significant amount of time doing promotional before she drops an album, then does a tour. So she's doing one offs and all these different radio shows. That was, like, before she had blown up, and so she was, like, working. [00:07:01] Speaker A: You were with her for that. That's so cool. [00:07:03] Speaker B: Yeah. And I loved it, and I loved every minute of it. I got to see the world, and I started to kind of just buy into that part of myself, and I found a lot of my identity in the world. And then fast forward to Justin, which was kind of like the cream of the. The. Just everything that we had set out for just as practitioners and fans of this subculture. Yeah. [00:07:35] Speaker A: This JT Marty intersection of the world. [00:07:39] Speaker B: The thing that you love, so many things about it, and you aspire to be so many things that it portrays and then comes just like, the cool. [00:07:52] Speaker A: He's cool. Yeah, it's cool. The cool and sexy without putting it on. [00:07:58] Speaker B: Yeah. Classy, timeless, human. [00:08:02] Speaker A: A showman. Like a professional. Yeah, like a professional entertainer. I don't think. Yeah, his is a showboaty. [00:08:12] Speaker B: All of the things that you deserve to feel and deserve to that I think I wished every human could feel at one point in their life is like, because everybody's fucking cool. [00:08:25] Speaker A: You can do that. [00:08:26] Speaker B: You can do that. Everybody's cool. And cool is just like a state of mind, and nobody does it like, they do it. Like Marty and Justin and everything that Marty's created, nobody does it the way he did. And so to get there and to get close to it and still be looking at it from the outside and then get inside of the machine and then to feel how amazing it is to be a part of a family. The family. Yeah. And these are people that I consider my family. Family. [00:09:03] Speaker A: Nice callback. [00:09:05] Speaker B: But being gone for so long, I just felt displaced. I didn't know what my identity was, where was I going? [00:09:14] Speaker A: Who am I? [00:09:15] Speaker B: What's next? Relationships? Family? I miss out on so much. And especially I didn't even grow up in an environment where we were programmed to even be present for things and events. My family doesn't put a lot of weight on that, but I just was missing things. I just missed a different experience. Because the part of touring that I experienced, you do it long enough that you think that that is you. The traveling is you, and getting paid to go on flights is you, and people paying for your hotel rooms is you. And as a career, yeah, I hope that I have that for as long as I possibly can. But also there's the other side to it, where it's like you as Dana Wilson or me as Max Fam win. If I want to go somewhere, I actually have to pay for know, like, I actually have to book. [00:10:14] Speaker A: You're reminding me I don't yet have a place to stay. I'm going to. I just. I'm taking myself on a solo trip to Europe, and I don't have a place to stay in Paris because I was going to stay with a friend. And then things happened. So, yeah, at the bottom line of our humanness, we have to do all that. But in our career, it just gets done. It's done. [00:10:35] Speaker B: That's the hardest part, or that was the hardest part about, I think, coming off of the tours, and I think that's in the intersection of the identity crisis. Once you finish something so grand, so grandiose and so luxurious and catered to you, and then you come back down into your reality, and if your reality, if you're like me and just didn't have the foundation that you wish you would have as a person, too, you have to then begin to stumble after being picked up and carried for so many years, and then falling and scraping your elbow doesn't feel as good when you haven't done it in so many years. [00:11:20] Speaker A: Totally great analogy. [00:11:22] Speaker B: I don't even know how I got there. [00:11:23] Speaker A: That was wonderful. I was asking about touring, and if that's a thing you see yourself doing or could do for a long period of time, I don't think it's natural. I don't think it's humane, even in some ways. I think a lot of our human identity shows up, and maybe this is my privileged experience of the idea of home. I think a lot of people's home is the city they grew up in or their block or whatever. But for me, it's always been like my space, the walls around me and what I keep in them and who I bring into them. And on tour, you're going from a bunk, which is a coffin, basically, and the twelve other people sharing it with you are all sharing the same single use salts and single use peppers and whatever food was available in that city that was kind of similar ish to what you had asked for and kind of just not your stuff and not your people. And then there's the hotel environment, which is designed, I think, to be faceless. Right? Like, it doesn't have your photos on the wall, it doesn't have your partner's shoes by the door. It doesn't have all of those things that make a house a home. And I think that's what makes hotels really nice to get away to every now and then. Like, clean slate. Not my life, whatever. [00:12:43] Speaker B: Different reality, different world. [00:12:44] Speaker A: But when you don't have the thing to check back into. Yeah, it can be like fully dehumanizing. Very awkward. Yeah, I miss elements of it. I definitely miss the stage. I miss performing. Do you have dreams like JT tour dreams? More often than not, I have nightmares. [00:13:01] Speaker B: Yeah, occasionally I do. [00:13:03] Speaker A: Like, you don't know the moves. Everybody's rehearsed and dressed and ready. [00:13:06] Speaker B: Not really that. Not really that. All the time. I'll see Cody sometimes in my dream, I'll be like, what's up, Cody? And we'll be in that space. Yeah, but I want to go back because, ironically, to your question, do you miss it? Yes, of course I kind of do. And ironically, we finished the tour in 2019, and ironically, about two weeks ago, I haven't auditioned at all after we got off a tour in pursuit of it just felt like a natural thing that I just felt called to do was basically kind of like, start erasing dancer and start scribbling in something else. Right? And four years later, now it's 2023. [00:13:55] Speaker A: Plop. [00:13:55] Speaker B: A pandemic amidst the pandemic amidst pursuing a globally syndicated choreographer based TV show and all these different things. And you understand what it means to actually deem yourself a creative or choreographer or host or something other than just, like, working dancer. Ironically, like two and a half weeks ago, I had auditioned for Tanashe Tour, ended up booking it, and it was on the whim. Like, audition was 07:00 p.m.. I didn't leave my spot till 655 because I'm sure you can kind of put yourself in my shoes and imagine the amount of reflection. Because once you sort of disembark from dancer journey and embark on choreographer creative journey. There's almost, like, no sense of turning back because of so many different reasons. Financially, respectfully, like where you are on the totem pole, physically, physically, all of those things. And I've been walking around and I've been telling some of my friends and my lady, I've been walking around feeling like I'm retired. I'm 32, right? And arguably best shape per human existence. I'm in prime mode. But I've noticed for four years, I've been just telling myself that I'm, like, 45. Like something else. [00:15:22] Speaker A: You have really aged yourself. [00:15:25] Speaker B: I can't do this anymore. Some days I know why. Sometimes I don't. And then this opportunity comes by, and I'm just drawn to do it. But I'm literally sitting at my kitchen table wanting to go and then sitting down because I just really want. Because it's not for the money, it's not for the glory. Because the glory was had. And that was what I wanted at a certain point in time was, you want to be on stage, you want to feel all these things. But I'm sitting in my kitchen like, will this make me happy? Embarking on this and then reporting to a new superior and a different structure than I was actually talking to Ivan earlier about this. We've been living in Marty's world for so long, and it's comfortable. We know the fam, we know the jokes. [00:16:21] Speaker A: We know the house rules. [00:16:22] Speaker B: We know house rules. You can jump back and play cornhole, but we get shit done. [00:16:28] Speaker A: Marty's house rules are very relaxed. [00:16:30] Speaker B: Absolutely. In many ways, sense of the word, it doesn't get much better than that. That's my life. I hope I get to do life with you people forever. I hope that these are, like, lifelong things. And I'd noticed myself, in a way, I'd etched out any other opportunity outside of that, just weirdly, subconsciously in the background, and then end up at this crossroads, like, five minutes before an audition. I just get up and go in the car, pop over, and I'm like, let me just go have fun. Because where I'm at in life and Yada, yada, yada. And ironically, it ended up being such a rewarding experience to be in the room and to gain that perspective again. And it was actually my brother and Arden that helped kind of put me back in my body. Like my brother, who obviously has known me my whole life and who I haven't spoken. We have our whatever relationship, but we've reconnected recently, and he was like, just accept that your role is different now. It doesn't need to be the same. I've been here for ten years, and he's like, you've been here ten years? Be that guy. [00:17:48] Speaker A: That guy that's been there for ten years. [00:17:49] Speaker B: Yeah. I draw so many parallels to sport as, you know, being an athlete my whole life and every basketball. LeBron James been in NBA 21 years playing with somebody that just got drafted. [00:18:04] Speaker A: Right. [00:18:05] Speaker B: So he has to take a size of humble pie, and he has to still adapt to whatever to the overall median age and experience of what the team is. Right. He can't just walk around knowing only living in 21 year mode. He has to fluctuate. And that was really humbling and quite refreshing to kind of experience to have pride in being a dancer. Again, parallel. Yeah. So, yeah, that was really interesting. [00:18:36] Speaker A: What did Arden have to say? Arden, by the way, Arden Flint. Previous podcast guest will link to her episode because. [00:18:41] Speaker B: Oh, you did a podcast with her? [00:18:42] Speaker A: Yes. Not in video format. She was a guest of ours when we were audio only. And I'm such a big Arden fan, I can't say enough. So just go listen to that episode, and I'll gush about her in the episode. Yeah, she was encouraging of you. [00:18:58] Speaker B: Yeah. She's like my sister. We've gotten so close. [00:19:03] Speaker A: You guys are such a great dance partnership. It is an amusement park to watch you guys together. [00:19:11] Speaker B: I don't think I've ever met anybody that's as capable. [00:19:16] Speaker A: Yeah, dude, say it. That's it. [00:19:18] Speaker B: Of doing the stuff that I aim to do. And some. And who's also as ballsy and well informed. [00:19:28] Speaker A: Well educated. [00:19:29] Speaker B: Well informed. Very versatile. [00:19:31] Speaker A: Yes. [00:19:32] Speaker B: Identity, character driven. Just all the things. [00:19:36] Speaker A: And so intelligent. So smart and fun. Outside of art and Appreciation Day over here. [00:19:42] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:19:44] Speaker A: It makes sense that she would encourage you towards dance, period, in any medium, whether that be to be teaching, which she is supportive in, you teaching, in choreographing, in dancing, if that should be your choice. That makes sense. [00:19:57] Speaker B: Well, ironically, she also invited me. She personally invited me to go to Doja Cat audition just because she knows me and she knows that it might spark something. And I did. She's just super encouraging and just on my side no matter what, psychologically. [00:20:18] Speaker A: Can you give me a sampler platter of some of the thoughts that ran through your mind at the Sinashe audition? [00:20:26] Speaker B: I was talking to myself. A lot of self time, like, what the fuck are you doing here? Why am I here? Do I belong here? I don't know anybody in this room. [00:20:35] Speaker A: Oh, my gosh. That one. I don't know why not knowing people scares me so much. [00:20:40] Speaker B: Just uncomfortable. Because you at one point, knew everybody in the room, right? [00:20:46] Speaker A: And that gave me a sense of belonging. If I know people here, I belong here. And when you don't, you feel like, oh, maybe this is not for me. [00:20:52] Speaker B: Yeah. And I had accepted that I was going to be in that room amidst kind of, like, my clashing mentally with myself. I arrived at the point. The bottom line was like, I just want to get down nice because it's been so long. It's been so long since I just busted. Just like, let me play some music. Run that shit. [00:21:19] Speaker A: Teach me some choreography for free. Yeah, let me stand. [00:21:22] Speaker B: I'm going to freak it. Exactly how nobody in this room will freak it. [00:21:25] Speaker A: Definitely. Oh, I wish I could have seen this. [00:21:27] Speaker B: And it was just fun. It was just fun. It felt like what it used to feel like, which is, I hope that never leaves. [00:21:34] Speaker A: Let's talk about it. Let's talk about never retiring from dance. I talk about her probably in every episode. I'm sorry. If you're a religious listener and you're tired of hearing me talk about Tony Basil, I won't stop. So you can just find another dance podcast to listen to. She came last night to watch class. She's 80 years old. [00:21:52] Speaker B: Wow. [00:21:53] Speaker A: And I make my way down to visit her and dance with her as often as I can. Once a week, sometimes twice a week. If she's really feeling proactive about me coming over, she's like, bring your dog. [00:22:05] Speaker B: Oh, really? [00:22:07] Speaker A: To dance? She's like, well, of course we'll dance, but I need to see your dog anyway. I think you also did want to circle back to this. Trust me, she's the expert on this shit. She's seen it all. She knows everyone. She is an expert on dance. BuT There is something to always being a student and always being training and always loving dance that I think she's such a great example of. And I think you and I are well on our way towards which is this balance of always evolving. So never trying to be 21 again. I'm not pretending that that's the destination I want. I would love to show up as Tony Basil in a room full of 20 somethings and just smile and let them do all the hard shit and let me modify and be whatever it is that she is, which is simply legendary. That type of maturity has always been attractive to me, and I think it's possible that right now we are somewhere in this in between where we feel like we haven't earned the legendary status to just drop in on wherever we want to be. But also, we're not spring chickens anymore. And dancing, like, the way they'd be dancing is not attractive to me all the time. So, yeah, it's this. Navigating the now. [00:23:29] Speaker B: Yeah. I think I've learned and noticed or observed that it's also really crucial the who and what mindsets you surround yourself by around, too, because I realized that a lot of my thinking was sort of influenced, like, peer influenced by just random voices that I listen to around people that have perspective on going backwards. Whereas if you're friends with Tony Basil, she loves the shit. I'm gathering that she loves it. And if you're around people that love it and are proud of it and are excited to stay connected to it, chances are you'll probably want to do the same. [00:24:18] Speaker A: I'm a type personally that doesn't believe there is such thing as backwards. There's just simply not. It's a time space impossibility, at least for now. [00:24:29] Speaker B: I had to reframe that for myself because I thought for the longest time, I thought that if I would have gone on a tour with anybody other than fucking Justin Timberlake, it would be a sense of going backwards. And I hope maybe I am the only one that feels like that. And it sounds a bit spoiled to me when I hear it out loud. [00:24:50] Speaker A: When you say it. [00:24:50] Speaker B: Yeah. And that's why I check myself, because I'm liKe, I don't need to feel like this. I want to be fucking happy. And why get caught up in something I battle every day is like getting caught up in the hustle of building, building, climbing, climbing, climbing. But sometimes, against the analogy, you can go back down the ladder and go somewhere else, too. [00:25:18] Speaker A: You are in charge of your own ship. [00:25:20] Speaker B: Yeah. At the end of the day, it don't matter at all. [00:25:23] Speaker A: Yeah. Climbing is only. I'm sure this is. Somebody else has said this, but climbing is only useful at all if you stop and look at the view. And if all you're doing is looking up, it just, like, fucking hurts after a while. So, leveling out, take a moment for pause and say, actually, I think the Vista down at my last stop was a better spot. Yeah, I'm going to do that. [00:25:45] Speaker B: There's more fish in that lake. Let me go down there. [00:25:47] Speaker A: More fish in that lake. Oh, I love this very much. Okay, so back to being a lifelong learner. What would you say is the lesson that you're learning right now, this chapter of your life? What are you being schooled on maybe, like, humility. Shit, mine is being wrong. I can be wrong. Really wrong. [00:26:09] Speaker B: Yeah, for sure. [00:26:10] Speaker A: In front of friends and family. Wrong in a big way wrong. [00:26:13] Speaker B: And still be okay having people and being open to people telling you that you are wrong and truly believing somebody else more than yourself as well, at times. [00:26:26] Speaker A: Trusting that, yeah, I have a blind spot. You can see this about me, but I can. [00:26:31] Speaker B: I've honestly been saying this in my head all day as I'm walking my dog, whatever. Just like the phrase, like blinded by ambition. I've just been repeating that in my head. Like, am I blinded by my own ambition? I've heard the phrase before. Does it apply for me in this very moment? [00:26:47] Speaker A: What do you think? [00:26:48] Speaker B: Potentially? Yeah, potentially. And I think naturally, you're not exempt from a human experience. And that's what I'm realizing. [00:26:59] Speaker A: Oh, you're going to feel I'm imperfect. [00:27:00] Speaker B: I'm imperfect as hell. I'm a work in progress. But the thing that I do know is that I just care. That's what it boils down to for me. I just really do care. And I'm pursuing what I'm pursuing at this point at the stage of my life for more reasons than just dance. I take into account family. The older you get, the more pods get thrown in your basket, and balance is key as well. That's what I'm learning, is staying balanced and checking in. [00:27:38] Speaker A: How do you find balance? How do you check in on that? Do you have a technique? [00:27:43] Speaker B: Do I have a technique for staying balanced? Yeah. I mean, taking quiet time keeps me balanced. Getting outside and doing other activities keeps me balanced. Communicating how I feel keeps me tapped in. Do I do the best job at it all the time? No, I don't. Because life comes quick. Life moves fast. [00:28:07] Speaker A: And because you're a human who's going to want to not feel bad and unpack bad feelings. [00:28:13] Speaker B: You're a highly functioning human. You can turn off the pain receptor if you really need to. [00:28:18] Speaker A: Oh, we've gotten very good at ignoring and avoiding things, especially with all these new doodads. It's not an issue. I mean, it becomes an issue quite quick, but, yeah, people do it all. [00:28:29] Speaker B: The time, for sure. Yeah. I think I'm inherently pretty tough on myself, so I kind of scold myself often. And also, I just need to be friendlier to myself and give myself a break. [00:28:45] Speaker A: Okay. Would you say that Arden is, like, a person in your life, maybe like, best friend status or, like, person that you care and try to protect? So I have a couple. I've got several. But when I try to monitor my self talk, I pretend that I am Jillian Myers. And I just ask myself, like, would you say that to Jillian? Fucking? No. No. Not even on your worst day. And so that's one of the ways I clock at least the self talk. Balance is like, where am I at with. [00:29:23] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:29:24] Speaker A: Am I treating myself with kindness? Am I showing up for myself like, I show up for my friends? And also, there are days where I'm also like, wait, how can I show up for my friends better? I've been showing up for me a lot lately. Let's divvy that up. But balance comes up a lot on the podcast. And I use this analogy because I think dancers are perfect examples of people who are tasked with finding balance often. And we do it the same way in life as we do in dance. We notice a problem, which is like, oh, you're falling out of your turn to the right, or, oh, you're spending a lot of money on coffee or whatever. And so then you like, okay, let me correct. And usually we wind up overcorrecting, which is like, I'm now spending no money on coffee, and all I think about is coffee, and all I want to do is whatever. And so I think in dance and in life, we wind up trying a thing, making an observation, trying to correct it, overcorrecting it, and doing that back and forth with little micro adjustments until the thing itself changes or some other circumstance changes, and we have a new accommodation to make. And I think we'll just perpetually be trying to find balance forever. And we're made for it, because I think we're critical in some lovely ways. Like, we can zoom out on ourselves and say, kind of objectively, oh, yes, I'm falling out to the right. Doesn't mean I'm bad. Doesn't mean I'm well, it does kind of mean I'm doing it wrong. I could do better if I blah. And I think in life, if we can be technicians a little bit more, like, just zoom out and say, like, oh, I've noticed this thing about my pirouette, which is my life. I try to make some adjustments and fix it. That's my technique, is to remember that dance lessons are life lessons and dance is life. And they're the same. [00:31:05] Speaker B: Yeah, 100%. Do you think that makes dancers? Would you describe dancers as extreme, as. [00:31:11] Speaker A: Being very balanced, as being extremist? [00:31:14] Speaker B: Because you have to push it all the way one way so you can overcompensate to push it all the way the other way. So you know where to find the middle. [00:31:23] Speaker A: I do think we're masters of the edge. Yeah, I think we are masters of finding or pushing our edge. [00:31:31] Speaker B: So, yeah, I think in dance and in life, yeah, I feel that way. I feel like I'm quite an extremist. Like, if I love something really, I will walk to the end of the earth for it. To. My last flangey falls off. [00:31:49] Speaker A: Wait, like, for example, what? What do you get into that hard, other than dance, I mean? [00:31:53] Speaker B: Like, when I was into baking. [00:31:55] Speaker A: Oh, my God, that's right. [00:31:58] Speaker B: Anything. Yeah, you go hard with things, doing things, like learning trades. Well, I become obsessed. [00:32:05] Speaker A: Trades and ideas, like potential trades. I know you're an entrepreneur in the true sense of the word. I've never known you to be only a one thing. It isn't to say that you don't go deep, but you've never just been like Max the dancer. In my mind, sure, you're Max the dancer, the athlete, the idea guy, the enthusiasm guy, the funny guy. We all have these many different hats, but I know that you have a knack for business. I know that you have a knack for filling, like, seeing a void in the. We'll call it market, and then filling it like, oh, there's a need. Has anybody else noticed this doesn't exist yet? We should make it this, that, and then have that thing. I don't think that's a uniquely dancer trait. I think that's a uniquely Max trait. Has that always been a part? Would you say that you identify as that? [00:32:58] Speaker B: Yeah, I would say I identify with multiple things. I think my scope as a person, I'm pretty well versed in a multitude and artists. [00:33:13] Speaker A: Funny, it doesn't get serious. [00:33:15] Speaker B: Doesn't mean I'm the absolute best at them, of course. No, but can I speak relatively fluently in multiple languages? Yeah. In an athletic space or in a business space? Because I think the world is quite. That life is quite simple at the core of any. And this is maybe because my dad's an engineer or it's kind of like an engineering mindset. All things work. Similarly, an Etches sketch needs to work somehow. And to be able to make an Etches sketch work for you, you have to learn how it functions in the same way, like a record player. How does it function? [00:34:01] Speaker A: How does it turn off? How does the mechanism move? [00:34:03] Speaker B: Yeah, there's things that you can use to manipulate this thing. So let me start there. Yeah. I think that my scope of interest is pretty wide. [00:34:14] Speaker A: Yeah, scope of interest wide, but also ability to see things as simple, as small, as digestible. That, I think, is what stops a lot of people who have a lot of diverse interests. It just all seems so overwhelming, and how could I ever learn all the ways and all the things? And I think you have a way of making things simple. [00:34:32] Speaker B: Yeah, I think you can learn anything. Like, if you really want to learn it, because I learned how to dance off of YouTube, which a lot of people did. [00:34:41] Speaker A: That's true. [00:34:42] Speaker B: You can learn anything. You can teach yourself how to bake. You can teach yourself neuroscience, physics, astrophysics, especially today. [00:34:51] Speaker A: It's an information age. [00:34:53] Speaker B: You just have to choose. You just have to choose what it is that you want to do right now. [00:34:57] Speaker A: Okay. Holy shit. Holy shit. You opened that can of worms. What is it that you are choosing to do right now? You didn't actually finish the Tinache story. Are you going to go? I know this just in, like, fresh. [00:35:10] Speaker B: I think this is public knowledge. Well, the tour ended up getting canceled, which was, again, a lesson. But I think it'll be rescheduled for top of the year next year. So I think that's a bridge that will get crossed. [00:35:26] Speaker A: Yeah, cross it when we get there. Okay. [00:35:28] Speaker B: But we're still doing stuff. [00:35:32] Speaker A: Who's at the helm of that? Choreographically nice. [00:35:36] Speaker B: Yeah, that's why I went, because I was, like, huge fans, obviously. [00:35:40] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:35:41] Speaker B: I was like, I'm just trying to dance. Let me learn from this guy. Because I had a conversation with myself. I was like, do I think that if I'm in the room with this dude, do I believe that I can be of assistance to him? Absolutely. Let's go. [00:35:56] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:35:57] Speaker B: And that was it. [00:35:58] Speaker A: That thought was all you needed. [00:36:00] Speaker B: I picked up my shit and I went. I was like, yeah, let's go. [00:36:02] Speaker A: I love that thought. Do I think I can be of service here? [00:36:05] Speaker B: Yeah. If yes, then could he benefit from me being in the room with whatever my natural expertise or go gettedness is? Yeah, I think so. Let me go. [00:36:17] Speaker A: Yeah. I'm now seeing the thought error in that way of thinking or in encouraging outsiders to adopt a certain belief, is that to think that you have something to offer for a lot of people is already a hurdle in and of itself. And you have this trust and this life experience that says, yes, you do have something to offer. But there are people out there who've never been on world tours who, in order to get themselves in that room, would need to think a different thought. I talk a lot about the difference between task based confidence and self confidence. Task based confidence obviously implies that you've done this task so many times that you gain confidence in it. And for you, that might be dancing on tour, you know that you can do this. You've proven to yourself and to other people that you can do this. But how could somebody walk into a world tour audition with the same full confidence if they had never done it? And that's self confidence, which I believe is simply a willingness to feel any feeling. Willing to feel stupid, willing to feel sexy, willing to feel embarrassed, willing to feel ashamed or guilty or any of the spectrum side by side. Somebody who's auditioned for seven world tours in book six will carry themselves a certain way, and somebody who's willing to feel any fucking feeling on earth, anything will look shockingly similar side by side of it. Yeah, for sure. I'll throw that little career coaching bone in there. But on the subject of auditions, I'm always fascinated by the self talk that happens. And it sounds like you found yourself a thought that was not only good enough to get you in the room, but kept you kind of on fire. [00:38:03] Speaker B: Maybe. I'm curious what you think, but I think it comes in waves, too. [00:38:10] Speaker A: Confidence? [00:38:11] Speaker B: Yeah. Even after having done X, Y, and Z. Some days I feel like I shouldn't even leave the house because don't nobody want me to be here. Like every class I teach, honestly, again, I tell my lady about it. Sometimes I just feel like nobody's going to show up to a class that I teach because I'm like, do I have anything to offer? I have to coach myself. And maybe that takes consistency over time to believe, but I think that's just a part of being creative, part of. [00:38:42] Speaker A: It being a human. YEs, but there is such thing as, I think that beliefs are simply thoughts, just sentences in your head that you've thought long enough that you hold them to be true. It's just like choreography. The more you rehearse a thought, the better you will get at thinking it until you hold it as a belief. And if you think for a long time, which your entire life existence of being a dancer was like, people might not come, people might not come. People might not come. That thought got trained. So, of course, your brain tends towards picking that up quicker than it picks up. Class is going to be packed today, right? You just haven't thought that thought as often. So part of it's as simple as that. And then there's the whole societal thing, which is like, we are encouraged to be humble and not encouraged to be too full of yourself. So there's other kind of pressures and forces at place to keep you from stepping out of the house like that all the time. It's good to have a little doubt because then you also get more problem solving focused about it. Like what if no one comes to class? Everything's going to be great all the time. It leaves a lot of room for things to go wrong. [00:39:54] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:39:55] Speaker A: But it's interesting for me to hear specifically about the class thing because I battle with this a lot just now or just recently, having committed to a weekly class, which is something I resisted for a long time, all the time doubting the value of. Well, I take that back. Not doubting the value of what I bring, but doubting if there is room or interest for exactly that thing. [00:40:22] Speaker B: I think what it boils down to is, and this is something that I'm learning and something that I am encouraging for some of the people that the clients that I work with, I choreograph for. If you love it, people will love it. That's kind of like the North Star. If you want to share something because it's on your heart and you want to create a podcast because you want to share, people will listen. And 190 some OD episodes later. Oh my God. Here you are. [00:40:54] Speaker A: I'm very proud. Yeah. HaviNg a strong reason for something. Love. [00:40:59] Speaker B: Purpose. [00:41:00] Speaker A: I think of love as a feeling that I feel in my body and I can choose it at any time. But this purpose is a sentence thing. Love is like a feeling in my body thing and a purpose like having a strong why for the podcast is a sentence thing. I can definitely. It's a sentence in my head that makes me feel proud to sit down in this chair or that makes me feel focused enough to write her an email to put on the headphones to do the thing, to schedule this I don't feel in love with the work of podcast doesn't make me feel love. Sure, it's thinking choreographers and dancers should be seen and heard. That sentence is what lands me here. And so remembering that the flow and this is again, we're getting very coachy, but the flow goes. Thought, feeling, action, not action. Feeling like there's no action that you can take that will guarantee a certain feeling. You're a perfect example. I'm sure everybody listening is like what Max gets nervous about teaching, about who's going to come to class. I've never even taught at millennium, ever. You can always feel self doubt. [00:42:23] Speaker B: Sure. [00:42:23] Speaker A: No matter how many packed out classes you have sold, no matter how many tours you have done. Self doubt will always be an option because it comes from this. Not from the bullets, not from the actions, not from your behavior. That's the nuts and bolts of the type of coaching that I trained in is called cognitive behavioral therapy, which assumes that there are neutral facts of the world. You think thoughts about them. Your thoughts make you feel. Your feelings take you to action, and your actions give you the results of your life. But it's so human to think that if I went on tour, then I could feel successful. [00:43:02] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:43:03] Speaker A: Or if I sold 25 sold out classes, then I would stop doubting myself. It's not true. It's just not true. But our brain will always offer it. It's wild. [00:43:13] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:43:14] Speaker A: Can we jump into a segment of the show I call wrist roll with it? This is a burnout round of questioning. [00:43:19] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:43:20] Speaker A: Okay. Earliest memory of a music video. [00:43:23] Speaker B: Go, Usher. Yeah. [00:43:25] Speaker A: Wow. [00:43:25] Speaker B: 06:00 a.m. Before basketball practice in 6th grade or 7th grade. [00:43:32] Speaker A: Okay. [00:43:33] Speaker B: And specifically the lyric, when he goes, she is certified 20. Boom. Clap. And he goes. And he goes, two. Boom. And he makes 20. And I was like, certified 20, boom. Cat. [00:43:54] Speaker A: It is just a me. Correct. [00:43:56] Speaker B: I remember, like, that musicality. It was after he said the word 20. And he goes, certified 20. That just ain't me. [00:44:05] Speaker A: And he held it there to let it sit. [00:44:06] Speaker B: And I'm like, eyeballs. Oh. He made the number 20 with his hands. [00:44:11] Speaker A: So that's your early memory for me, of music video, but also choreography. [00:44:16] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:44:17] Speaker A: That's when you were like, oh, mood musicality to make a message. Love that. Favorite step. Go. Oh, I know. Mine's a pot of go. Or a Ronda shop. Shit. It's hard to choose. Do it if you have it. [00:44:36] Speaker B: Scoob out. Hop. [00:44:39] Speaker A: Good call. [00:44:40] Speaker B: Yeah, I use it a lot in my. [00:44:41] Speaker A: Really good call. [00:44:41] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:44:42] Speaker A: Okay. Least favorite move. [00:44:44] Speaker B: Least favorite move. [00:44:47] Speaker A: To see or to dance an offbeat anything. [00:44:52] Speaker B: Lock or lock in. [00:44:53] Speaker A: Okay. So there was a lot of locking influence in class last night. Locking or locking? [00:45:00] Speaker B: Locking. Okay. [00:45:01] Speaker A: Yeah. Thank you for the distinction. Very different. And I noticed when I teach locking or elements of it, I teach that you can sit into it a couple of different ways. You can really wrist with it or you can kind of elbow with it where the wrist more or less stays the same, but the elbows rotate. I noticed last night the pause like a very frontal paw. I kept looking at it only because it was kind of like watching a car accident. It was very hard to not look at. But a lot of people think that the wrists in locking are pause and I'm going to have to spend time with why it isn't. [00:45:51] Speaker B: It's so nuanced. Just the body positioning of a lock is funky, and you have to be willing to go there and really sit in a hip to feel it and look like it. [00:46:07] Speaker A: But it's so important that when we say sit in a hip, that we know that you don't mean arch your back and sit into a hip. Because I think that's actually what bothered me the most about the kitten paws is that they came with, like, an arched back, like boom boom arch versus boom boom tuck, which is really what, when you sit in the hip, it's with a C shaped spine, my friends. [00:46:29] Speaker B: Right? [00:46:29] Speaker A: So anyways, the false. Just all night long, I was like, there it is again. Oh, there it is. Oh, my God. Another one. [00:46:37] Speaker B: It was just so. Even I come from a generation age wise, but I wasn't a part of a massive. Just. [00:46:48] Speaker A: I kind of saw Boise, Idaho. [00:46:49] Speaker B: Yeah, it's just like this Lone ranger. Kind of like acquiring foraging bushels of flavor and berries along the way of little nuggets of like, oh, this is what this looks like. And this is how this group of people does it. [00:47:03] Speaker A: Nice. [00:47:03] Speaker B: And this is what this looks like. And this is how this crew, this group of people beboying all these different styles. But for me, how I came up, which is normal, the way I discovered dance organically, just from watching, not from somebody teaching me, just from literally showing up and being at jams and events and parties and battles and just watching. Fundamentally, every freestyle dancer knows everybody can break, everybody can pop. Everybody has respect for locking. It was just kind of like right baseline. The six step. That's where you learn. That's your entryway into hip hop, is a six step. Maybe you'd learn how to do a freeze. When I was growing up, everybody just had an understanding of flavor. [00:47:59] Speaker A: I'll tell you that. Those people were different. [00:48:02] Speaker B: It's just different. [00:48:04] Speaker A: Not all of them. [00:48:06] Speaker B: It's different now. Knowledge is attained in different ways. I think arguably, like, community is not the same as what it once was. [00:48:14] Speaker A: Well. Oh, this is very interesting. Ooh. New thesis. Also, there's a difference between learning a dance two dimensionally on a screen and learning it in person and the shape. Especially if you're watching locking straight on, you can't tell if my back is arched or tucked. [00:48:30] Speaker B: But a lot of what I learned was on a screen I studied. [00:48:34] Speaker A: Well, you also were social with it, right? Yeah. [00:48:37] Speaker B: I mean, I would perform on street corners and stuff, but you learned from YouTube, where I learned everything and I flipped everything on my mind. Literally debunked. Ate dinner, go to school, come home, go to practice, come back, eat dinner, and just scour the Internet. This new YouTube thing for just videos, little moments in music videos. Omarion flipping his leg and this little thing and just running it back. Running it back and just really analyzing. No, not icebox in. [00:49:13] Speaker A: Sounded like for a second. [00:49:16] Speaker B: Is it O? Yeah, I think it's an O at the end of O. It's like a solo dance. Like, clip of him. [00:49:22] Speaker A: We're back. Sorry. [00:49:23] Speaker B: But, like, analyzing. Really analyzing. [00:49:26] Speaker A: And I think that you watch things a million times. [00:49:29] Speaker B: Yeah. But just, like, being detail oriented, I find that I miss it a lot of times from students in class. Sometimes I don't know if it's the way I was raised or what, but if you do something, I can pretty much capture most of what you're doing. I won't just throw away the shape. [00:49:54] Speaker A: Of my spine or if something so. [00:49:57] Speaker B: Massively obvious that what you're doing. Oh, yeah, I see it. Okay. [00:50:01] Speaker A: Whereas the scan thing, it's not intrinsic. Not everybody does. [00:50:04] Speaker B: It feels like extremity driven. Right. And not like everything driven. [00:50:09] Speaker A: Right? [00:50:10] Speaker B: I don't know. [00:50:10] Speaker A: Well said. I think that that is a critical takeaway in anybody that is a student of Max's or otherwise with my stuff. [00:50:18] Speaker B: My stuff is so nuanced, even like a Michael walk. A dance move that I hate to see is a Michael walk done improperly. [00:50:29] Speaker A: Tell you exactly what it is, but. [00:50:30] Speaker B: It is kind of difficult. [00:50:34] Speaker A: Here's what makes it right is the forward motion. And here's what people do wrong. Back, which is right leg kicks. And instead of going forward, they go back. [00:50:52] Speaker B: Yeah, you're doing that really well. I've seen doing that really well. [00:50:56] Speaker A: The incorrect version. [00:50:57] Speaker B: Yeah. It was a posture, too. [00:51:00] Speaker A: And there's a bounce. [00:51:01] Speaker B: Yeah. And the cool of it. The cool is so obvious. [00:51:08] Speaker A: Oh, my God. [00:51:09] Speaker B: The cool is so fucking obvious. [00:51:10] Speaker A: Just be cool. Stop trying. [00:51:13] Speaker B: Oh, my God. [00:51:14] Speaker A: Let me tell you, as a person who wasn't cool for a really long. [00:51:17] Speaker B: Time, I'm not cool. [00:51:18] Speaker A: To be told I'm not cool is so frustrating. [00:51:21] Speaker B: Yeah. Trust. I'm not cool. Listen, I feel like geeky nerd. I'm everything but cool. [00:51:31] Speaker A: Well, what you're trying to say is be smart. Be an engineer about it. Look at the math of what's happening. Is the top of my head bouncing or is it staying level? Is the momentum of my energy going forward or back? Is my left leg straight or bent. Are my knees straight or bent? The answer is bent. [00:51:48] Speaker B: Always. [00:51:49] Speaker A: Almost always. For me, anyways. For funk. For funk's sake. But, yeah. Okay, this is good. We are no longer wrist rolling with it. And you brought me to a new question. Favorite YouTube video. I know, I know. It's wrong of me to even ask. [00:52:04] Speaker B: Yeah, buddy. Favorite YouTube video. [00:52:06] Speaker A: You could give me three. I'd settle for top three. [00:52:08] Speaker B: Crushing grapes. Have you seen that? [00:52:10] Speaker A: Yes. [00:52:10] Speaker B: The grape stomping. [00:52:11] Speaker A: My God, it's been war. [00:52:13] Speaker B: Where he falls over the thing and he's like. [00:52:17] Speaker A: And you hear the whimpers off camera. That is like gift. Such a gift of the Internet. [00:52:23] Speaker B: But staying dance centric, I would say, shoot, I could freaking fire off so many. [00:52:36] Speaker A: First two to come to your mind. They won't be offended. [00:52:39] Speaker B: Taeyang music video, where you at? Featuring Sean Everesto and La Boniga. Yes. The all white and all black. [00:52:46] Speaker A: Yes. Oh, yes. Oh, thank you. [00:52:49] Speaker B: I mean, anything from OG, like Marty days. But the company. Yes, the company. Big fan of Jason Rilera era, where they put. He was always the anchor at the end because he's so clean and his musicality is so clear. [00:53:07] Speaker A: So clean. [00:53:09] Speaker B: The cruises, a lot of body rock. [00:53:12] Speaker A: Videos come to, like, just, like, big dance on a stage. [00:53:20] Speaker B: All. A lot of it was like, so you think you can dance, like, solo, but like, Cedric Gardner. Okay, you remember him? Yeah, I think he's from Milwaukee, but he was one of the first three seasons of. So you think freestyler insane. Like, just crazy. Open body. I would watch him constantly because he was so weird, but I'll have to. [00:53:45] Speaker A: Go revisit that because I'm not recalling any specific. [00:53:50] Speaker B: Also, any of the notorious Ibe popping battles. [00:53:54] Speaker A: Nice. [00:53:55] Speaker B: With far side and Bionic. Any of the IBe. The notorious IBe 2009 Breaking battle featuring, like, little Chico, like Lilou. Team USA versus the All Stars. Ibe All Stars. [00:54:11] Speaker A: Okay. [00:54:12] Speaker B: That stuff's insane. [00:54:14] Speaker A: One of my favorite YouTube videos ever, period, the end is Hilty and Bosch with Kuthko doing popping. And it's, like, the best example of the difference between popping and locking and then the marriage of popping and locking. One of my favorite things. Yeah. [00:54:29] Speaker B: Hilton Bosch. [00:54:31] Speaker A: Okay. You get to collaborate with anybody, living or dead. Who is it? [00:54:35] Speaker B: Creatively. [00:54:36] Speaker A: Yep. Period. [00:54:37] Speaker B: I mean, there has to be. There's one that can be said and gets thrown out because it's so obvious. But Michael. [00:54:44] Speaker A: Okay. [00:54:45] Speaker B: I mean, Fred Astaire, nice. But outside of dance and performance collaboration. [00:54:53] Speaker A: Oh, man. [00:54:54] Speaker B: Do you have something? [00:54:55] Speaker A: I do. I have one. It's kind of a sad. You invited me because I always try to answer these questions for myself. You invited me to zoom out of the dance sphere. Dance and entertainment sphere. And I went to the art world. There is an artist called Robert Irwin, and he recently passed away at 95. And he has a book called Seeing is Forgetting the name of the Thing that one sees, which is a mouthful. But the book is that seeing is forgetting the name of the thing that one sees. [00:55:29] Speaker B: Seeing is forgetting the name of the thing that one sees. Yes. [00:55:34] Speaker A: And his work is much to do with light. And so it makes sense that vision and perception of objects or non objects, like, he's got fully sculptures that are just light, that aren't sculptures at all, that your eyeball sees as sculpture. He's also famous for having designed the gardens at the Getty Center. Fascinating human. And I think I would like him. [00:55:59] Speaker B: Somebody that I enjoy. I think it was Antonio Tichi. [00:56:07] Speaker A: Okay. [00:56:09] Speaker B: I'm almost like, sure, I'm getting his name wrong, but do you remember the Burberry ad where they're flying through the snow? Through the snow, but the fields, there's four of them. And he gets whipped and his belly's up to the. [00:56:26] Speaker A: Yes. [00:56:26] Speaker B: And it's like crouching Tiger, hidden dragon type of. Type of vibes. He was the creative director for Burberry for the longest time. [00:56:33] Speaker A: Cool. [00:56:34] Speaker B: And just had a really dope and deep appreciation for movement. BUt he's actually incredible. His story is insane. His upbringing, raised by in a home full of strong women. So his lens on fashion and visual art is, I think, just really astounding. [00:56:54] Speaker A: Tight. Yeah. There's a collaboration there. I think you have a great eye for the way something feels. I think dancers, you must feel a certain way. For me, feeling first. So I think that a collaboration with somebody from a fashion world, they'd be informed by your knowledge of feeling. You'd be informed by their knowledge of all the things that fashion got to be feeling. [00:57:23] Speaker B: Feeling is what you remember. [00:57:24] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:57:25] Speaker B: You remember how something like you remember when people are gone, you remember how they made you feel, not what they did for you. Yes. [00:57:32] Speaker A: And feeling can, as we talked about before, lead to action or inaction. Wearing a certain thing that limits my mobility, limits my action, limits my behavior in the world. No, thank you. Which reminds me, these pants are a little bit uncomfortable. They're not great sitting. [00:57:48] Speaker B: They look great. [00:57:49] Speaker A: Thank you. Yeah, well, they're not the worst, but okay. Two, three more. Really quick. Favorite word. [00:57:57] Speaker B: Greatness. [00:57:58] Speaker A: Nice. Least favorite word. [00:58:00] Speaker B: Can't. [00:58:02] Speaker A: Least favorite word is can't. Okay. These are solid answers. Final question. What are the words that move you the most? [00:58:09] Speaker B: How you do anything is how you do everything. Pressure is a privilege. Billie Jean King. Wow. [00:58:16] Speaker A: Okay. [00:58:16] Speaker B: Love that big one. [00:58:18] Speaker A: That's a big one. [00:58:19] Speaker B: And one that I said on the show on Dance 100. I couldn't think of what I wanted to say, so I said I was in a fraternity in college, so I said my fraternity motto, which is, don't suck, don't quit. Which is like, which is still cool, but it's like something that I would say with you. It's like, don't suck, don't quit. But I remember I said that on camera. They're like, what's your mantra? Don't suck. Don't quit. I'm like, what the fuck are you doing? But my biggest one at the moment is how you do everything. Is how you do anything is how you do everything. [00:58:59] Speaker A: Well, thank you for that reminder. Thank you for your timE. [00:59:02] Speaker B: Thank you for having me. [00:59:03] Speaker A: I appreciate it. Let's do brunch soon. [00:59:05] Speaker B: Yeah. Sweet butter. [00:59:06] Speaker A: Yes. [00:59:06] Speaker B: Shout out sweet butter. [00:59:07] Speaker A: Shout out, sweet butter. [00:59:08] Speaker B: Right on. [00:59:09] Speaker A: Okay, you. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Thank you. If you love the podcast, subscribe, click the bell. That's the thing I learned how to say. Right? Where is it? It's over there somewhere. Oh, wait, it's over there. [00:59:25] Speaker B: It's right here. [00:59:26] Speaker A: It's right there. Thank you. Thank you. Get out into the world. Keep it funky. And for the love of God, tuck your pelvis when you lock and just try to not. [00:59:38] Speaker B: And go somewhere when you walk. [00:59:39] Speaker A: Go somewhere when you walk. Don't scoot it back. [00:59:43] Speaker B: Walk in place, man. Yeah, just be cool. [00:59:46] Speaker A: Just be cool. Go that way. [00:59:49] Speaker B: Yeah. Go travel. Yeah. [00:59:52] Speaker A: Okay, bye. [00:59:53] Speaker B: All right, peace. [00:59:55] Speaker A: This podcast was produced by me with the help of many big, big love to our executive assistant and editor, Riley Higgins. Our communications manager is Ori Vajadares. Our music is by Max Winnie, logo and brand design by Brie REITs, thumbnails and marketing by Fiona Small. You can make your tax deductible donations towards that move me. Thanks to our fiscal sponsor, the dance Resource center, and also many thanks to you. I'm so glad you're here. And if you're digging the pod, please share it. Leave a review and rating. And if you want to coach with me and the many marvelous members of the words that move me community, visit wordstheveme.com. If you're simply curious to know more about me and the work I do outside of this podcast, visit thedanawilson.com.

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