Speaker 0 00:00:00 Welcome to words that move me, the podcast where movers and shakers, like you get the information and inspiration. You need to navigate your creative career with clarity and confidence. I am your host, Dana Wilson. And I move people. I am all about the tools and techniques that empower tomorrow's leaders to make the work of their dreams and live a full life while doing it. So whether you're new to the game or transitioning to your next echelon of greatness, you're in the right place. Hello? Hello, dear mover and shaker. Welcome to the podcast. I'm Dana. I am so glad that you are here because this month on the pod, we are digging into mastery like the mastery of your craft. And, um, I talked a little bit last week about how mastery is so special because it's hard to define, but really easy to spot. And this week's guest by my standard is certainly a master, a master of her body.
Speaker 0 00:01:10 A master of making movement makes sense. She is a master mom these days, and she is also a master business woman. She is in the process of opening multiple locations for multi physiotherapy, which she co-founded with her husband. She is the founder of sugar foot therapy. She's a choreographer. She is a dancer. She's a dear friend of mine, and I cannot wait to introduce you to Katie char. But first of course, we're gonna do some wins today. I am celebrating the successful receival receipt, receiv recipient of one of the props that I will be using for eight counts. The words that movie, if you have not heard of this project, it is the first ever film production brought to you by words that move me. Um, I am making this film in collaboration with the members of the words that move me community. Go ahead and visit words that move me.com.
Speaker 0 00:02:16 If you're curious about becoming a member of the words that move me community, um, the, the, the words that move me community AKA whi com is a group of people who are passionate about navigating their career with clarity and confidence. I offer career coaching, um, daily creative prompts, monthly playlists. It really, the list goes on, please go check out the website, um, and also be on the lookout for some news about an in person screening, because eight counts the words that movie will have a live screening on the big, big screen in June, actually June 16th. So mark your calendars, be the lookout on the social media, um, because <laugh>, I'm stoked about the film, but I'm even more stoked about this prop that I received in the mail. Um, not gonna tell you what it is cuz I don't wanna give it away any spoilers, but y'all supply chain shortage is real.
Speaker 0 00:03:15 I was not sure that I would get this prop by the time we shoot, which is just a few days from now. Um, so man, oh man, glad about that. Celebrating that. Um, also I wanna go ahead and put this out there into the world. It's a tough time out there. There's a lot going on big world news. I know that it's very easy to feel heavy when you think about the current event news in our world. So I am encouraging you to think about something that feels light for me, the receiving the receive. Honestly, I don't know what to say about that. Having received a prop in the mail feels like a really big win for me. I'm gonna celebrate it through and through and now I'll throw it to you. Tell me about what is going well in your world. What is light? What is easy? What is good? Get me.
Speaker 1 00:04:21 Yay. Wow.
Speaker 0 00:04:23 All right, my friend. Congratulations. I'm thrilled for you. Keep it up. Please keep winning. All right. Now let us, let us win together. Let us start feeling very strong. Let us get inspired about cross training, about physical therapy, about rehab, about rehab, about all of it. I cannot wait any longer to introduce you to Katie char. So here you have it. Enjoy this conversation with the one and only Katie char Katie char. Welcome to the podcast. What is up?
Speaker 2 00:05:04 Hey, I am so happy to be here. Thank you. I'm a big fan of you and what you do just make the world a better place.
Speaker 0 00:05:14 Likewise, likewise. Um, I would consider you a movement master. Would you consider yourself a movement master? Is that, how do you feel about that title? <laugh>
Speaker 2 00:05:28 Well, it's, it's, that's tough for my ego, uh, to comprehend the term master I'm most definitely a movement enthusiast. And I think at this phase in my well, throughout my life in careers, uh, I think I have been surrounded by movement masters. Mm. Um, and I have had the great privilege of harnessing their mastery. <laugh> mm-hmm
Speaker 0 00:05:58 <affirmative> mm-hmm <affirmative> do you think perhaps being surrounded by people that you consider masters might have something to do with you, uh, shying away from claiming owning, owning that title for yourself?
Speaker 2 00:06:11 Most definitely. Oh
Speaker 0 00:06:12 Yeah. Oh totally. Yes. Welcome to world <laugh>. Um, okay. Let's let's focus on this career thing. So you've done the TV shows the, so you think you can dances the dancing with the stars, the award shows of all the types you've toured you've performed at the super bowl. Correct?
Speaker 2 00:06:33 I was the associate choreographer for the Katie Perry super bowl, half 10 show.
Speaker 0 00:06:40 You better get it. <laugh> um, so you understand big scale, but you also understand fine work and delicate work. You've worked with Tom cruise, Catherine Z. Jones, Julian Huff, Alec Baldwin, Russell brand, Annie Lennox, Katie Holmes, Paula Abul, David freaking hassle Hoff. I wanna know everything and Cher, but I'm gonna stop at Cher even though the list goes on, because I think Cher is like the, the Sherry cherry on top. Um, but you're also a mom and you're also a person who's opening multiple locations of your business. So I'd say you're a competent business woman at the very least. I'm gonna let you take the floor. Now tell us all about those things or not about those things, but tell us anything you want us to know about you.
Speaker 2 00:07:30 Hmm. Well, yes I am a mother and wife. I think those, uh, take the forefront. Um, especially at my current phase. I can see that shifting as my kids get older, but, um, yeah, I'll probably always put them first. Um, and I'm a dancer and somebody who just loves to move my body. Um, I <laugh>, my dance career played out in a way I never could have predicted. Um, most of my opportunities came via the assistant associate choreographer route. And even most of my performance opportunities came through those relationships, which was really cool. Um, and then when I met my husband, Nick, he was attending USC to get his doctorate in physical therapy. Uh, and that introduced me to that world and all the brilliant people over there. And now I'm an entrepreneur and business owner. Um, so I've been, I've been doing all this for a while now. And, um, the physical therapy business owner hat is mm-hmm, <affirmative> certainly the newest, but it is the most predominant work hat now. And I love it and I feel like I have my greatest sense of purpose ever.
Speaker 0 00:09:19 Wow. Um, but are you finding that, that this current hat you're wearing the entrepreneur, the business person, um, is that your it's you said it's your most commonly worn hat. Is it also your favorite hat? <laugh>
Speaker 2 00:09:35 Mm.
Speaker 0 00:09:37 Or is there a favorite hat?
Speaker 2 00:09:39 Well, mom is my favorite hat.
Speaker 0 00:09:41 Okay, cool, cool, cool. I can imagine.
Speaker 2 00:09:44 No, but, but, um, yeah, I might be, you know, it's still, it's still new. I mean, listen, I'm not gonna pretend to be a, uh, business expert. Our, we opened our first mot location almost five years ago, so it's not like I'm not a master of business. I'm still learning a lot, but man, I love it. And I feel at, with, with Modi and sugar foot therapy, um, I think it was the first time I felt that I truly had something completely unique to offer the world. And it was like, it's been like this huge calling of like, I have to do this. If I don't do this, nobody else is gonna do it. I have to. And um, you know, I think throughout my dance career, I was never, it never felt innate to me, um, to self promote to a great fault. Um, that was always uncomfortable for me. Um, but gosh, as soon as we had the idea for sugar foot therapy, I was making cold calls to dance magazine. I was like, I have to this from the rooftops, we're gonna help people. And, um, God, that feels good. Yeah. Ooh,
Speaker 0 00:11:06 You are speaking to my core. My lady <laugh> is speaking right to it. Um, okay. I wanna talk a little bit about the difference between Mo and sugar foot and the difference between sugar foot and physical therapy period. Yeah. But before we do that, I wanna, we are here to talk about mastery today and we're kind of dancing around it. I think one of the things you just mentioned, like I'm still learning to me, that's one of the defining qualities of a master. Um, what does mastery mean to you, to you? What are the defining qualities of a master?
Speaker 2 00:11:41 Well, yeah, I think thinking about mastery as a verb, more than mm-hmm <affirmative> master the mm-hmm <affirmative> definitive noun is important, um, because you know, expertise is ever evolving. Um, and it's really clear in something like medical practice, physical therapy, where there's constantly new research coming out and new modalities coming out. And so it has to evolve and it has to change. Um, and so yeah, you can, you can do, you can apply that to anything. Um, it mastery is the, I, I guess the pursuit of excellence, um, you know, and, and having the, the humility throughout it all to just enjoy the process and know that it's never coming to a definitive end. And I think that was kind of like this big lesson for me to learn coming from 18 years of being a dancer and choreographer. And like you're a freelancer and it's gig to gig and there was always like a button on the end of each project. Right. Cause then it's done and then you're looking for the next job. And now I'm a business owner and I have this huge team of people and there's no end,
Speaker 0 00:13:07 Hopefully yeah. Your work is never done. Right, right. We don't want
Speaker 2 00:13:10 It to end. Um, but it's, it's ongoing. Um, and so it is just this living breathing thing and it's just gonna keep going on and on and we're gonna keep figuring it out as we go. Um, and certainly mastering your own body and your own movement is that way. I mean, how much does your body change throughout your life? Geez, whew.
Speaker 0 00:13:37 I mean, throughout the last three days, cuz I took two airplanes and ate a very salty meal. There you go. My body is, oh, and I'm, it's, I'm very attuned to its micro shifts. I think dancers are in general, but um, oh man, I'm so, so lucky to have you from the, from even what you've shared already. I can tell that you are not just very, very good at making movement make sense, but you're very good at helping the process of improving make sense. Did that, did that make sense? You're very good at making the process of improving and growth make sense and you make it seem, uh, fun. And I know that's not always the case, especially in the midst of injury. Um, I think some like when you're injured progress can feel so slow and so small. Um, so maybe that's a good segue to, to talk a little bit about mot, what is mot, how is it different than your average gym and how is what you do different than your average physical therapy?
Speaker 2 00:14:45 Yes. So mot stands for movement therapy Institute. It is our brick and mortar physical therapy facility. We opened our first location and when I say we, I mean me and my husband, Nick, who is also my business partner, he
Speaker 0 00:15:03 Is a, which is like a podcast unto itself, probably with the partner
Speaker 2 00:15:09 Doctor of physical therapy. Um, so we opened the first location in Los F's in 2017. Um, and it was a risky <laugh> um,
Speaker 0 00:15:23 You got some prime real estate there. It's a beautiful spot. I've been several times.
Speaker 2 00:15:28 We, um, we wanted to, I think our motive was, um, you know, it's like, I guess why anyone O starts a business. You, you believe you can do it better. Um, and we believed we could provide a better patient experience, but we also hoped we could create, um, a great job experience and different career path for physical therapists. Um, so I, physical therapists are kind of like the backup dancers of the medical industry, um, are kind of like unsung heroes. <laugh> totally, totally I, can you
Speaker 0 00:16:09 See that, that analogy? Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:16:11 The orthopedic surgeon is like the star. Um, but then like the PT who does the six months of rehab and like emotional and physical therapy with the patient after is like super important. Anyhow, I'm going off on tangents.
Speaker 0 00:16:28 Oh no. I'm just like not, I wish everyone could see how heavily and extremely I'm nodding my head in agreement. Um, not to, not to steal the floor, but I just, um, I recently got back from Colorado. I was helping my mom who just turned 70 recover from back surgery and I spoke to three or four medical professionals from nurses to the surgeon himself. But let me tell you what it was. Our physical therapist, shout out Lucy HARO, hay, um, who really helped things make sense for my mom and was intuitive about where she was at Mo emotionally and physically what she could take on what, where we needed to pause. I just, I felt like I was in the hands of a master. I was like, oh my gosh, you know what you're doing? You so know what you're doing. And it was great. And she was there and it was great. Okay. That's awesome. Carry on.
Speaker 2 00:17:19 I love that. <laugh>
Speaker 0 00:17:21 Um, yeah, it's just, it's, it's backing up what you just said, which is like, those are the people rolling up their sleeves doing hands on work day after day after day after day, not just, you know, doing what's on paper or doing what's on the schedule, but checking the pulse, reading the room, feeling it out, and there's so much creativity intrinsic in that. And then also the technical skill right. Involved is, is beyond me. But I'm
Speaker 2 00:17:47 Sorry. Go ahead. No, thanks for sharing that. Um, so we opened Modi about five years ago. Yeah. And it was a huge risk for us. Um, thankfully <laugh> things ramped up quickly in those first couple years and we actually opened our second location in 2019, right before COVID started. Um, Hmm. That's fun. Very thankful that we survived the business survived that, um, and very excited to say that we are opening two additional locations this year. So hopefully by the end of 2022, there will be four Modi locations. So Modi is a brick and mortar licensed medical office. You, um, you know, we see all types of people there, um, from eight year olds to 90 year olds, literally, um, for everything from some mild, low back pain to, I just had bilateral hip replacements and, uh, we've got experts specialists in pelvic floor, postpartum recovery.
Speaker 2 00:18:57 We've got sports specialists, we have dance specialists, of course. So it's a very broad spectrum of who our patients are at Modi. Um, mm-hmm <affirmative> and, but that's where you're going for hands on treatment, um, to recover from injury or just to get expert guidance in pursuit of a physical goal, you know, so we have, we might have a dancer who's coming, you know, because they're trying to get their extensions higher, but they've had this kind of like hip discomfort and they don't know what that is. And so then physical therapists are, they are literally like the a P T a, the American physical therapy association, like calls them movement experts. So like they really are like movement masters. Um, wow. I love this. It's it's so cool. And it's, I am like a kid in a candy shop being in our clinics because it's so personalized.
Speaker 2 00:20:04 And every single patient come who comes in is living in a different body, um, is coming from a different place of activity is working towards a different goal. So the programming, the therapist puts together for them is always so different and it's so fascinating. Um, so I am just so proud of what they do and it's really inspiring to watch patients just put in the work cuz physical therapy is a process. Uh, it's a very holistic intervention, you know, it's, you're not taking drugs, you're not getting shots. Um, it's holistic, you're moving your body to heal your body. Um, but as with most things, um, it's not usually a quick fix and quick fixes usually are too good to be true. <laugh> um, so it's a, it's a process and there's a real relationship of trust between the patient and the therapist. And it can, it can really depend on the injury. Sometimes it only takes a few sessions. Sometimes it takes months of sessions to, for the patient to reach their goal. But man, it's so cool to see people come out on the other side of it. Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:21:25 I've personally, I've had only a few, you know, career injury moments where I felt like I could not do what was being asked of me. Mm-hmm <affirmative> because of an ailment. And one of them happened, uh, while we rehearsed while we were rehearsing for JTS man of the woods tour, I was swinging the show and um, we were rehearsing in less than ideal. Like not on sprung floors, we're rehearsing on the Concourse level of the eyes arena and it's like concrete and we're there for eight hours a day. And I developed this knee thing. <laugh>, we'll call it before I knew that it was patella tendonitis. It was a knee thing, but it could have been anything. I've had friends that have torn their ACL meniscus, both of them, uh, front side, backside, all the possible things. And that's even before I did the web MD search of like, what's wrong with me?
Speaker 0 00:22:21 The overwhelm alone of like, what is this? Pain is enough to really tense you up and put blocks in front of yourself. Mentally can keep you from finding the solution. So another, in addition to like the physical exercising that is working at moti, I think having a specialist who can demystify, get rid of this confusion, get rid of that confusion, get rid of that fear. <laugh> thing that fear, all of that fear is like such a hidden bonus that I think most people don't come to find unless they've been able to have the privilege to work with someone one on
Speaker 2 00:22:59 One. Yeah,
Speaker 0 00:22:59 No, that's so true. Wanted to, to insert that. But after I figured out things to an awesome doc in New York city where I was at at the time who did a little ultrasound, did the little MRI. We did all the things. She was like, you have some inflammation, <laugh> it is normal. You need to start using your glutes and stop using your quads. You need to be rolling out. You need to be like, it was really awesome. She didn't give me, you know, could have, but told me it was risky. Didn't give me the steroid injection. Didn't give me the heavy duty anti-inflammatories she was like, stop eating inflammatory foods, stop drinking and do your PT. She hooked me, hooked me up with a PT in New York, um, whose name I'm forgetting, cuz I was only there for a short time and it was Aw.
Speaker 0 00:23:54 Awesome. I remember feeling like, and you might have had this feeling too, cuz we both have, I think dance for both of us came first, like before any sort of cross training. But I remember the first time I took a Pilates class on a reformer and I was like, how have I been able to dance until this moment? Like without this knowledge <laugh> how was I able to be doing what I did before? I had that same moment with my physical therapist, finding this, this tiny little place that was getting no love from me whatsoever. And then I had this toolkit, I had these five or six different exercises that could wake that up. And I'm I'm most days I'm totally pain free in terms of knees. Um, if I have like, uh, a shoot or a rehearsal day where I have to be wearing stick shoes or things with friction, it can like my knees can be hurting. But for the most part, that training and the awareness that came with it helped me out of pain.
Speaker 2 00:24:57 Do you go back to your little home exercise program?
Speaker 0 00:25:01 Oh my, do you still
Speaker 2 00:25:01 Use it
Speaker 0 00:25:02 Day daily? Yeah, especially if I have to be dancing. So I have a Peloton, I love my Peloton. I use it almost every day. And before I ride, I do either exercises that my PT gave me or kid do not. I do sugar foot exercises. Some of my favorite ones involve that big, big, the big ball, the yoga ball, um, laying on my back and doing like a dead bug position, holding the ball and rolling from side to side. Um, and then the one with my foot on the ball where I do lunges. That's another favorite. I'll ask you to explain some of those in a second, but um, I guess this is just a long winded way for me to say, if you have not already you, the listener, if you have not already done some sort of cross training in a, in a prehab type of way, if you are fortunate enough to have not been injured and be introduced to physical therapy as rehab, I really, really SuperDuper encourage it because I thought I knew my body because dance class, but dance class, I think it's wild. Like we don't do exercises to warm up for dance. Most of the time we dance to warm up for dance.
Speaker 2 00:26:15 Um, like sports medicine is this huge field in industry. And it's been around for a long time and like dance because it's an art and there's this, um, resistance to consider it as athletics, um, has, is just way behind in embracing these science from the sports medicine field. Um, and that's shifting, you know, there's a lot of awesome dance background practitioners out there and especially with social media and more and more people are getting the word out and it's awesome, but mm-hmm, <affirmative>, you know, still for, for the most part, um, in dance, we, we typically train and teach the way we were trained and taught, you know, and it's this, um, it's this cycle of kinda caring forward what you knew. Um, and so yes, dance is like the only sport where we train for our, our sport by doing our sport. It's like if a baseball pitcher just only threw the ball over and over, it's like, well, yeah, no, like he would hurt his shoulder. Of course wouldn't get injured. <laugh> um, so yes, this idea of, um, strength training first to facilitate the dance technique is, is something that, you know, our world is coming around to, but it's definitely a process mm-hmm <affirmative> and figuring it out how and when to fit it into our already very busy lives and schedules. Um, mm-hmm <affirmative> so back to
Speaker 0 00:28:04 Is yeah. Is that what you would say?
Speaker 2 00:28:06 Go ahead. Well, back to differentiating Modi from sugar foot therapy, uh, sugar foot therapy was actually born Premo. Um, so my husband Nick was, uh, practicing at another clinic that we did not own in LA and I was in the thick of my dance career and whenever somebody would get hurt in rehearsal, I'm like, oh, well, you know, we gotta call, let me call my boyfriend, Nick, or my husband, Nick. And, you know, see if he knows what you should do. And so after years of that, he kind of became this go-to guy for dancers when they got hurt mm-hmm <affirmative> and he is not a dancer. Um, but he is a great sports physical therapist and any great sports physical therapist will take the person in front of them will analyze how their body is moving and the symptoms they're experiencing and also look at what they want to be able to do.
Speaker 2 00:29:08 Right. So he starts working with all these dancers and they're, they're getting better and I can toot the horn here, cuz it wasn't me to work. It was him, you know, every single time they're finishing the rehab process and they're like, whoa, why didn't anybody tell me to do this before I feel amazing. Mm-hmm <affirmative> I feel even better than I did before my injury. I feel like I can dance better. Um, and he's like, well, yeah, cuz you've never strength trained in your life. And you're trying to ask your body to do ridiculously athletic things <laugh> and so, you know, after, after a few years of that and why don't anybody tell me to do this? We're like, gosh, no,
Speaker 0 00:29:56 You're like we
Speaker 2 00:29:59 A resource of some kind. And um, mm-hmm, <affirmative> literally like Googled like strength and conditioning programs for dancers, uh, dance, injury prevention programs. And at the time, like we were getting nothing except for like
Speaker 0 00:30:16 You found, you found void.
Speaker 2 00:30:17 So we're like, okay, let's, let's just put this on a website and basically took home exercise programs like what your physical therapist gave you. And we were taking a lot of the programming that Nick was doing with his dancer patients and creating just little, uh, instructional videos and programs, um, and making it accessible. Uh, and so that we did that before we started Modi. And um, now we do like teacher trainings and um, we have the online library and we have classes on CLI studios and we've been able to, uh, present at a lot of conventions and conferences in the dance world and in the physical therapy world. Um, and this is cool because a few years after we had started Sugarfoot, um, dance magazine called us <laugh>,
Speaker 0 00:31:26 That's how, you know, you've your cold calls turn into <laugh> turn into speed dial.
Speaker 2 00:31:31 Um, so that was valid. So
Speaker 0 00:31:33 Cool. So they did a, and did, did they call you to do a feature ask
Speaker 2 00:31:40 They called, um, to interview Nick about a piece on the risks of overstretching and hyper flexibility?
Speaker 0 00:31:52 Let's talk about it.
Speaker 2 00:31:53 Um, yeah.
Speaker 0 00:31:54 Oh my God.
Speaker 2 00:31:55 So anyhow, that's what sugar foot therapy is not a program to treat an injury. You know, that should definitely be, uh, overseen and directed by a licensed professional. Um, mm-hmm <affirmative> but it's for that maintenance and you know, mm-hmm <affirmative> and not just maintenance, but physical improvement when you are not injured. Mm-hmm <affirmative> that physical mastery, if you will,
Speaker 0 00:32:28 Let's go. It is it's that it's like, uh, the way that I think of mastery, one of the first essential like baseline components of a master is someone who has received and continues to seek exceptional training. I think training must be a part. I don't think there are like natural born masters. I think mastery implies work training and um, practice like having a practice. And so I think, um, something like Sugarfoot, in addition to the practice of taking dance, class, learning choreography, learning how to perform, learning, how to dance on camera. Those are important for people pursuing professional careers, but having a vocabulary with words, but also having a vocabulary with your body to do the big stuff that we're asking of it. And this is where this is kind of for me, the way that my brain has made this make sense. What you're saying is like physical therapy and what physical therapists do.
Speaker 0 00:33:33 And even for me, Pilates was like target the thing that either is broken or wrong or needs improvement in order for you to accomplish your goal. It's like, that's, it's minutia. It's like one inch of a difference here. It's a small tilt of this here. It's a make this tiny thing work better. But the way I think of sugar foot is like big. It's like big picture. Can you jump off of one leg? <laugh> can you balance the right side of your body doing one thing and your left side of your body doing another thing. It seems to me I'm and I'm sure you do my work and you do focused training, but it really feels functionally big. Like for me to turn, I need to do this for me to kick. I need to do this for me to jump. I need to be able to do these things. And it's not just like tilt your pelvis right. Or release your pelvis. It's like this and this and this and this, the first
Speaker 2 00:34:28 Can we can get so heady and technical because we've been, we've spent our whole lives, just micro analyzing technique. I mean, ballet technique is crazy. Like unnatural <laugh> oh,
Speaker 0 00:34:41 It's crazy.
Speaker 2 00:34:42 And so fine tuned. And so we're coming from this life of thinking about movement that way. And um, mm-hmm, <affirmative>, mm-hmm <affirmative> and a lot of times we've neglected like our, our mechanics as a human being. So, you know, if we've been upright and play our whole lives, well, yeah, we're gonna be very quad dominant. You gotta stick your butt back behind you to activate your glutes for those muscles to know to fire. Um, but like squatting, I mean, that's like the most universal, like human motion, you gotta squat down to pick something up <laugh> um, and so, but like
Speaker 0 00:35:24 You gotta squat down to let something go.
Speaker 2 00:35:26 So many dancers who come into the clinic, it's like learning how to squat is like a whole session mm-hmm <affirmative> um, and, and it takes practice, you know, it's not, yeah, it's a practice. It's not something you can do a one time, uh, workshop on and expect it to make a difference. Mm-hmm <affirmative>, you know, I love that you still use your five exercises from your knee program because yeah. It's, it's maintenance and it takes practice and it's those seemingly uh, simple movement patterns. Aren't part of our dance vernacular. And so it, you have to make space for them.
Speaker 0 00:36:12 Mm-hmm, <affirmative>, what's, what's ironic about them when you say that is that most of them don't take hardly any space. I have a few that I can do laying down. I have a few that I can do standing up. There are there's one or two that I could do, like in an airplane bathroom, like tiny, tiny spaces that I could really make the most of and be feeling heat and engagement and, and that firing. Yeah. So couldn't say it enough, big fan of that type of cross training with a professional, the one-on-one stuff where somebody can see you doing what is natural on you and then help you to achieve the, the unnatural.
Speaker 2 00:36:52 Yeah. And of course, you know, of course like the, the one on one treatment is ideal. I mean, hello, such a dream, but like, that's why we, that's why we started by creating this online platform because we're like, our audience are professional dancers who don't have a lot of money. And so, um, mm-hmm <affirmative> we said, okay, well let's make the, the monthly access fee, the cost of what their copay might be for a single session, um, which is $29. And so for $29, they get a month, you know, so if somebody's like, oh, you know what, my ankle is, you know, feeling weak, then they can sign up for a month and, you know, learn those few like ankle workouts. And then they've got 'em in their arsenal. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. Um, and so that was, that was very important to us is making it accessible, uh, to the dance community.
Speaker 2 00:37:54 Um, but my favorite thing to recommend to dancers and dance teachers and dance parents everywhere is to research who in your local community can help you when an injury happens and don't wait for the injury to become acute. Um, so, you know, whatever you can do to create relationships with experts beforehand is really powerful because let's say, okay, you are on tour. So, you know, I'm sure the, uh, tour manager helped set you up with the doctor in New York and, you know, helped arrange all that. Well, if you're not on a project that, or if you're on a project that doesn't provide that, um, you wanna have that expert on speed, dial on your phone, you can call when you feel a twinge in your knee, and you can say, Hey, uh, I was doing this in rehearsal and I felt this, uh, what do you think I should do?
Speaker 2 00:39:08 Um, and whether you, whether they can they're there and they can come look at, you can go into their office and they can look at you real quick. And they can say, uh, yeah, this is, this is pretty serious. You should not go to rehearsal tomorrow. Or, you know what? This is not presenting as a big deal. Let's try some ibuprofen tonight and reassess tomorrow, having somebody to answer those questions for you and not try to rely on WebMD in the moment <laugh>, um, is so important, especially when it's your livelihood. And, and yes, I'm, I'm a physical therapy business owner. So of course I'm advocating for like find your PT and your community who's, uh, who has a dance background, or who's a great, great with working with, uh, athletes, um, you know, find that person. Um, but you know, usually they're very passionate about what they do.
Speaker 2 00:40:07 They're excited to work with our type of people. They wanna work with patients who are passionate about movement, so they wanna know you, they wanna help. Um, so I think that is like, the best thing dancers can do is find them beforehand. Um, so it's not a mad scramble mm-hmm <affirmative> cause that's when it's really scary. Mm-hmm <affirmative> is when you're in pain, you have all the fear of what does this mean, and they can help you navigate it all. And if it is a serious thing, um, they, our physical therapist work directly every single day with all of the top surgeons in Los Angeles. So if a dancer calls and let's use this knee, now this knee example and says, Ooh, I helped. I felt a twinge. They come in, our therapist goes, Ooh, yeah, I think you need to get some imaging and have a doctor look at this. Well, our therapist is gonna call Dr. Weber at USC and say, Hey Alex, can you get this professional dancer in? And boom, boom, boom, they're connected. They can make things happen. And you're not just like calling the one 800 number trying to find an orthopedist. Um, so PT can be a great gatekeeper into the whole overwhelming medical world,
Speaker 0 00:41:35 Overwhelming to say the very least overwhelming opens the door to expensive, expensive, opens the door to like inaccessible. And then there's the whole language, which is confusing. But what you're saying right now is reminding me of something I'm super passionate about, which, which is slashing this idea of the self made person or that I did it myself type thing. I think it's far more empowering to have a team than to say I did it myself. Like I want to have a medical team. Like, I love that idea. I love the thought that I have a physical therapy person in New York. I've got you. Although you live in Texas, moti is here in LA. I love that. I have a massage therapist, a sports medicine doctor, people who could put me in touch with I've got teams on teams. And I love feeling that type of support.
Speaker 2 00:42:29 Yeah. You and you shouldn't expect yourself to know <laugh> to be an expert in all of those things. Yeah. So know that there are experts out there.
Speaker 0 00:42:37 Ooh. Speaking of mastery. Yes.
Speaker 2 00:42:40 Like dance teachers too, like dance teachers put so much pressure on themselves. Well, I need to be able to know when a kid gets hurt in class, you know what to tell them to do. And I'm like, no, you don't, you need to have the neighbor number. You need to know the people, the expert that can tell them. Um, so,
Speaker 0 00:43:00 Oh, that's huge. That's a huge insight to mastery is like, mm-hmm, <affirmative> knowing the limits of your field. A master of this is not going to pretend to be the master of that. They are focused on their lane. So let someone else be the master of this part of your life. That's right. So that you can master the rest.
Speaker 2 00:43:18 Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:43:19 Love this. Um, okay. So most of the people listening are dancers and choreographers. I, I have seen and worked with many, an actor who walk through the doors at mochi as well. Um, but I'm, I'm so curious to hear, because I'm sure there are like a list of most common issues that you see coming through the door. And are there some things other than find a local professional, like other than starting to assemble our medical teams, are there things that you would encourage all dancers and movement types to do? Are there things that you would encourage us to stop doing? I know this is probably an episode unto itself, but could you give me like top three?
Speaker 2 00:44:01 I mean, number one injury for dancers are ankle sprains. Um, and the, the foot and ankle is kind of like the main site, but it really depends on what type of dancer you're working with. Um, one thing we see a ton at Modi, and I think this is, might be more specific to the Los Angeles dance scene is that it seems like, and this, we haven't like done any organized data collection on this. This is just a trend that our dance PTs have identified. It seems like dancers are most often getting hurt in the creation process. So like tour dancers, mm-hmm <affirmative> once you're on tour and the show's set like movements in their bodies, like it's, they've got it down. It does overused injuries do happen in those cases and accidents. But what we see a lot is that dancers are getting hurt in the creation process. Um, so mm-hmm <affirmative> yeah. Which
Speaker 0 00:45:05 Makes sense. It's not, I don't, I don't
Speaker 2 00:45:09 Love hearing it, but it makes sense creativity or artistry before safe body movement mechanics,
Speaker 0 00:45:18 But also you, and you're also probably trying something you,
Speaker 2 00:45:22 A lot, lot of times you're trying to acquire brand new skills quickly because there's only budget for two rehearsal days. Um, so we see that a lot. Um, and you know, can you always prevent those injuries? It's impossible to say, but what you can do is be as fit and resilient in your body as possible. So it's that idea of just like being ready for whatever opportunities present, cuz when you're a freelancer, you don't know what your next gig's gonna be. You don't know what skill they're gonna ask you to try to do. So what you can do is have a disciplined practice of training your body to yes. Be very proficient at dance technique. But so often on projects, you're not just doing dance technique, you're jumping off of risers and you're trying new partnering skills. You're trying aerial work for the first time in your life. And you know, it's,
Speaker 0 00:46:25 <laugh>,
Speaker 2 00:46:26 <laugh>, it's a lot. So the more fits and uh, accustomed to different types of movement, your body is, um, the, the better and more safely you' going to perform in those instances. Um, So, you know, stay fit to stay ready. Um, but other common, okay, so I'm going all over the place and Springs are really often really common. Um, you know, you can't, you can't generalize like this is what's always causing everybody's ankle sprains, but kind of the premise of sugar foot therapy and any good cross-training program is if you regularly practice these functional human movement patterns with variety, you'll have better muscular balance than if you're only doing dance all the time,
Speaker 0 00:47:27 Like a six step PI across the floor only prepares your ankles for so much.
Speaker 2 00:47:31 If you're squatting and you're squatting with weight and you're lunging and you're practicing lunging with speed and you're practicing lunging slowly and you're practicing lunging with weights and in different directions, then you, your whole body is learning. It's practiced at doing more than this singular linear dance technique, movement pattern. Um, so mm-hmm, <affirmative> a lot of times ankle instability is linked to hip instability. You know, it's like the, the foot bones connected to the shin bone, the shin bones connected to the thigh bone. So, you know, if you're being prone to ankle sprains, isn't like, okay, I need to sit on the floor and like point my foot into a TheraBand. Not that that's bad, but it's not enough cuz there's a whole other system that your ankle is connected to. Right. Um, so you know, is there one thing everyone should be doing? Yeah. Uh, cross training and that's like that's and really like what is cross training? It's moving your body in a way that's not your sport. So like for football players, Pilates is cross training. Uh mm-hmm <affirmative> for dancers doing stuff that doesn't look like the way you dance all the time is cross training. Uh, your body thrives on that variety and it, it finds more balance that way.
Speaker 0 00:49:17 Ooh, that's huge. And balance is something we talk about here on the podcast all the time. It's one of those life lessons that is a dance lesson. Like how do you find balance in your life? The same way you find it on your leg? You try, you mess up, you learn from that, you correct you probably over. Correct. You try it again. You finally find it by the time you found it. Something changes. Yeah. So you have to do the whole thing over again. Um, but I think this like lesson, if we were to make a life lesson out of this dance lesson, I think it's that expecting to get better at the thing that you do by only doing what you already do is, is probably not the most useful thought is that's not the most useful policy. <laugh> I think if you want to get better at doing what you do, you must do other and apply it to what you do.
Speaker 0 00:50:13 Like, listen, this here, I'm on one. Ready? I read a book recently about mastery in gearing up for this month of the podcast conversations on mastery. And um, it, it kind of gave me this idea to be working on applying other life lessons or other opportunities to practice humanness to my dance. So let's say that I am driving to dance class, practicing S spatial awareness, like actively practicing spatial awareness as I drive. At what point do I become aware of the truck behind me? How, how much time am I giving before I change lanes? How much following distance do I actually have? Like I'm practicing techniques that I use in dance very, very far away from any dance contexts at all. And I'm loving it. It's helping me engage with the world a little bit differently, cuz to be honest, I can, I have a cap.
Speaker 0 00:51:16 I have, I have the capacity to really tune out and in between dancing or performing or you know, podcasting lately, I can really, really turn tune out. It scares me how much I can tune out. So it's helped me to remember all of the different ways and places I can get better at dance. Mm-hmm <affirmative> that aren't dance. And yes, one of them is, is like weight training or cross training. But there are so many more than that. It could be the way you move through the grocery store right now. It could be the way you drive. It could be the way you have a communication and leave space for someone else to talk. I mean just endless spaces for us to get better at the thing that we do by not doing the thing that we do.
Speaker 2 00:51:59 Yeah. I, uh, we did a Instagram post recently for Sugarfoot about, um, diversification in youth sports. And um, there was a study, um, that looked at youth sports, I think up to age 18 and um, you know, specialization, singular specialization in a sport overwhelmingly leads to more injury, more serious injury, more burnout, more early quitting. Um, and mm-hmm <affirmative> dance is one of, is one of the sport. They included dance as a sport and it has one of the highest, uh, percentages of single sport specialization. Um, so a lot of us are coming from this world as kids where like dance is all we do and we're kind of conditioned to living our lives this way, where this is, I'm a dancer. All I do is dance. And um, you know, the data shows us that that's not necessarily the best way to go about things. And I do think like you can, you can imagine how other, even other youth sports could positively impact your dancing. You know, having the, the quick reaction that you might get from basketball or volleyball or even like the, the teamwork you get from playing a team sport. Hello. Um, oh my gosh. And, and not that, not that I did those things, but I'm like, oh my gosh, that makes so much sense. Um, yeah.
Speaker 0 00:53:36 Yeah. I think it makes sense for two reasons. Number one, to avoid burnout, to avoid injury, to like have that variety and a holistic approach to dance, but also here's another kicker for the most part dance, at least, well, not at least dance, especially the type that I do. TV commercial film, um, will broaden that out to like new media to include our music videos and stuff like that. But most of that is dance that imitates life. So we're not dancers being dancers. I'm a dancer being a young mom at the park, or I'm a dancer being, you know, whatever,
Speaker 2 00:54:16 Be more pedestrian, be more human, be more human,
Speaker 0 00:54:19 Be more pedestrian, or like here, take this basketball and dribble it. And I'm like, wait, sorry, Demi, Demi grand is what I do. It really does benefit. And like the, the answers that I have hired for the last two years of my life, it's essential that they be able to move like a human, like walk like a human dribble, a basketball, like a human sit on a bench, like a freaking human. So the cross training is, is useful for more ways than one. Oh, you're right. It really is. Like some days you might, you might be asked to like run,
Speaker 2 00:54:53 Look like a real person. It should be in your movement to box have meant to bonds
Speaker 0 00:54:58 Me <laugh> it really should. And I think that, that this type of cross training can really, really help with that. So, oh man, I, I could talk to you forever, I think, but what I, but what I wanna do right now is give you an opportunity to tell people where to find more of you. I will 100% put all of these links in the show notes to this episode. So you'll be able to click very easily and find Katie and moti. And Sugarfoot um, you mentioned you work with CLI sometimes I know we have some CLI members listening, but take it away. Where do we find the brick and mortar? Where do we find the online stuff? That's just so good.
Speaker 2 00:55:38 Yes. So multi physiotherapy we're in Los Angeles. So if you're in LA and you get hurt, call us, we are here to help you. We're in network with sag after insurance, if you're a sag member, um, <laugh>
Speaker 0 00:55:56 Wait, what?
Speaker 2 00:55:58 Yeah, This is
Speaker 0 00:55:59 The
Speaker 2 00:55:59 Greatest news of, so, uh, Modi pt.com M OT, I pt.com. And, uh, so we're in Los speeds and Highland park. So kind of in that Northeast quadrants of LA, but we're opening in P a Vista and mid Wilshire later this year. So we'll have a bigger footprint and we'll be able to help more people out. Um, our dance conditioning program, sugar foot therapy is available
[email protected] and, um, that's where you can subscribe for a month access all of our content, get what you need, stay on it as long as you want to, or don't want to. It's all good. Um, so that's a great resource that you can use anywhere. We've had people take our teacher trainings from as far away as New Zealand. Um, so it's really cool to use the internet to have that global reach. Um, and then we are also online with CLI studios.
Speaker 2 00:57:04 We have a lot of great content on their platform. So if you're a CLI user, please check out mm-hmm, <affirmative> our programs there. Um, and then I do wanna plug, there is a, an event that we're a part of coming up in your hometown, aren't you from Denver? Yeah, Colorado. Um, yeah, this summer and it's the organization is called the bridge dance project and it's a nonprofit and it is all very passionate, uh, dance medicine and wellness providers who are organizing a conference for dancers and dance teachers. Um, and it's all dance wellness. Um, so that should be really interesting and cover a lot of great material. And, um, you can check that out on the bridge dance project.org.
Speaker 0 00:58:02 Uh, Katie, thank you so very much for those resources. Thank you for your time and your enthusiasm about this. You make this seem fun and I, again, being injured is not fun. Um, but preparing yourself for a strong life and variety in what your body can do that is really fun. Um, so thank you for, for, for that inspiration. I think it's awesome.
Speaker 2 00:58:28 Yeah. Thank you. And it's like, you know, one of the harmful things about being a dancer is we kind of, aren't taught to think of ourselves as being disposable or replaceable. Um, and I think that's created this culture of being afraid to report to injury. Um, the injury is inevitable when we are as active as we are. So, you know, it's very powerful to acknowledge that it's there and it's gonna happen to you at some point. Um, so, you know, be prepared, be prepared to deal with it and, and be prepared mentally to, to say when you're hurt and get the help that you need and know that you're gonna come out of it. And you're not gonna, I did the dance thing long enough to know that if you have to go on pause to heal, it's not gonna change the path of your career in a bad way. Um, you will, you will come through it. And, um, it's, it's more important to take the time to take care of yourself, uh, so that you can live a full, not just dance life, but life on the other side of the injury.
Speaker 0 00:59:45 Mm. I can't think of a better place to end it unless we were to just keep going forever. So we'll end it right there and I will encourage everyone to go find more of Katie, char sugar foot therapy, mot take care of yourselves. And, um, uh, Katie, I will very much be talking to you and learning from you again soon, whether you see me or not, I'm a huge fan of the CLI stuff, but now I'm listening and I'm like, I want, I, this movement master thing, it's a, it's a title that I wanna wear really proudly. So you might be seeing me in a teacher certification soon.
Speaker 2 01:00:18 Ooh. Yeah, girl,
Speaker 0 01:00:20 Look out, look out. Um, but till then I'll give you some big love and I'll, I'll, I'll talk to you later. Thanks
Speaker 2 01:00:26 So much, Dana.
Speaker 0 01:00:28 Bye.
Speaker 0 01:00:33 My friend, my friend. What do you think about that? Are you as juiced as I am right now? Are you already doing squats? Like, are you already engaging the medial glutes as you drive and listen or commute and listen, or are you up and moving right now? Because I am certainly inspired to be, um, I love what Katie had to say about variety being important in a dancer's life and in a dancer's training. Um, I loved, although it's slightly dark and hard to accept, um, love what she said about injury as being inevitable. It's something that is going to happen in the full lifetime of a moving person. So be prepared. I think it's so empowering to think about having a team that keeps you moving and sort of outsourcing that mastery. Like letting that be someone else's job, let them know the medical terms, let them have their networks of medical professionals and let you have contact with, you know, a few point people, whether they are physical therapists, uh, personal trainers, well trained instructors, I think is just O that is such an empowering thought to think that you can have teams on teams, on teams that are not only there to help you, but excited to help you because you're a person who moves your body for a living.
Speaker 0 01:02:04 You're a person who loves to be moving. You're a person who's in touch with your body. There are people out there who are excited to help you stay that way and achieve your goals. Ooh, this is exciting to me. Um, oh man, I also loved what Katie had to say about there being this kind of culture around injury. This idea that a dancer is replaceable, therefore shouldn't voice their concerns about injury, or certainly shouldn't voice whether they are injured or not. Something I did not say in the podcast episode is that during my first tour, I sprained my ankle a really bad one. And I did not say anything about it. I danced on it. Um, wrapped it, uptight, put it in a nice bucket every night, but I, I danced on that bad boy and it resulted in some chronic ankle rules ever since then.
Speaker 0 01:03:01 So this is me encouraging you to get ahead of that. Start making good habits, start assembling a good team and um, certainly check out more of Katie Char's work. Go find you some sugar foot therapy. If you live in Los Angeles, try to get into a multi physiotherapy. The facilities are beautiful. The trainers and, uh, professionals, there are just so equipped to be doing this work. They're excited about it. It's uh, it's an awesome environment. Definitely encourage you to check that out. All right. My friends, whew, that is it for me today. I am gonna go do my media glute exercises. Before I take dance class tonight, <laugh> get out there into the world and keep it very funky. I'll talk to you soon. This podcast was produced by me with the help of many music by max Winnie logo and brand design by Bree res and big thanks to Riley Higgins, our executive assistant and editor also massive, thanks to you.
Speaker 0 01:04:03 The mover, who is no stranger to taking action. So go take action. I will not cannot stop you from downloading episodes or leaving a review into rating. I will not ban you from my online store for spending your hard earned money on the cool merch and awesome programs that await you. There. I will. 100% not stop you from visiting words that move me.com. If you wanna talk with me, work with me and make moves with the rest of the words that move me community. Oh, and also I will not stop you from visiting the Dana wilson.com. If you're curious about all the things that I do that are not words that move me related. All right, my friend, keep it funky. I'll talk to you soon.
