172. Bill Prudich Wants You To Want More From Your Training

April 26, 2023 01:11:03
172. Bill Prudich Wants You To Want More From Your Training
Words That Move Me with Dana Wilson
172. Bill Prudich Wants You To Want More From Your Training

Apr 26 2023 | 01:11:03


Show Notes

Self-proclaimed bad student, and decorated teacher, Bill Prudich wants excellent things for dance and wants you to want more from your training. As the previous owner of the infamous Edge Performing Arts Center, Bill talks about what is missing in dance class today and what he believes makes the mark of a good class. I could've talked to Bill for hours, but for now, we'll start here. Please enjoy this conversation with Bill Prudich. 


Show Notes:

Watch Jason Mraz' Video I Feel like dancing 

Ep. 159 Cameras in the classroom  

Dana's Social Media post about her breakthrough from class at Millennium

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 0 00:00:00 Welcome to Words That Move Me, the podcast where movers and shakers like you get the information and inspiration you need to navigate your creative career with clarity and confidence. I am your host Dana Wilson. And I move people. I am all about the tools and techniques that empower tomorrow's leaders to make the work of their dreams and live a full life while doing it. So whether you're new to the game or transitioning to your next echelon of greatness, you're in the right place. All right, my friend. Hello, this is Dana, and this is words that move me. Thank you for being here. I hope that you are having a funky day slash night. Um, I am, I certainly am. I'm wearing one, one of my favorite funky blos right now. Uh, and a puffy vest that my mom made when she was like my age. Speaker 0 00:00:54 So feeling super funky. Indeed. Although I have not left the house today, I'm feeling a little bit crazy, um, like stale air, stale brain, maybe. Um, but it's one of those days I'm okay with. It. Doesn't happen all the time. We'll, just think of it as me doing my part to balance out the fuel emissions here in Los Angeles. That works for me. That works for today. Okay. This week we are talking about being a working dancer, a hard working dancer. We are digging into the meaning of training and the changes in training style that have taken place specifically here in Los Angeles in the last several years slash decades. Um, and there is truly no greater specialist on this subject than today's guest, bill Prudish, who is the co-owner of the legendary Edge Performing Arts Center, which after 28 years, closed its doors during the pandemic. Speaker 0 00:01:55 Um, bill is also an incredible mentor, a dear friend, a hysterical human being all around Model American. Um, bill is a, a self-proclaimed bad student and an awarded like a actual decorated and universally celebrated teacher. He's also stepping into his second and epic, if I do say so myself, wave of being a performer. Uh, I cannot wait for you to hear Bill's hot takes on the state of the industry today, and I really hope you take his notes, uh, cuz this is gold, y'all. Solid gold, okay. But first, let's do some wins. I start every episode off with wins, and today I am celebrating 92 consecutive weeks of working out. Not daily working out, but like weekly, like at least once a week. For 92 weeks, I have been working out, God bless Peloton for spying on me and monitoring my workouts. Also, bless them for offering meditations and counting those as workouts because I do think some of those weeks, <laugh>, maybe I had done a sleep meditation and that had counted as a workout. Speaker 0 00:03:13 I digress. I'm counting Missy because of guests like Bill, people in my life, like Bill and, uh, Tony Basil, who we mentioned. Maybe she was in the B roll of this episode actually. Anyways, there are fantastic examples of longevity in my life and I, I, I want to work towards being an example of that myself. 92 consecutive workouts right now means to me that I could probably work out in some way, at least once a week, forever, like to be moving my body for all, for as long as I can move my body. That's my goal. This is my weekly win. Um, and that is where I'm gonna leave it. Man. Bill is ju he is a mover. He keeps on moving and he keeps on moving people. I'm so inspired by that. I cannot wait to share this conversation with you. But first you go, what are you celebrating? What is going well in your world? Speaker 1 00:04:24 Yay. Speaker 0 00:04:27 All right. My friends, bill Pich has a lot to say about dancers and training and dancers training to be working. This is seriously solid gold and it is also a riot to listen to. So buckle up and please enjoy the one and only Bill Prudish. Oh, you're no fun at all. You're very good at awkward silence. That was too good. Bill. Speaker 2 00:04:54 Awkward. My middle name Speaker 0 00:04:56 <laugh> Bill, awkward Prudish. Welcome to the podcast. Speaker 2 00:05:00 I'm so happy to be here. Speaker 0 00:05:02 I'm thrilled to have you. I've been wanting to do this for a very long time, and I have been, uh, barking or like pawing at you for, for for months to get this on the books. I know you're an in-person person. I'm not really doing that yet with the podcast, mostly because I haven't found a way to make it sound great. Um, but I am loving the way your hair looks in headphones, so this is going well already. Speaker 2 00:05:24 <laugh>. This is my new look. Catch me when you can. Speaker 0 00:05:28 I like this. Look for you. Um, okay. Bill, all my guests on the podcast introduce themselves, so I will, uh, throw that maybe possibly daunting task in your direction and yield the floor. What do you want us to know about you? Um, Speaker 2 00:05:40 My name is Bill Prudish. Uh, I started dancing when I was in college. Um, I'm a Gemini Speaker 0 00:05:49 <laugh>. And you're out of college now? Speaker 2 00:05:50 Woefully out of college. <laugh>. I am, I am. I am a senior, a member. Uh, I've been a teacher most of my life and I started dancing again about 12 years ago, which has been a gift and an encouragement for all of you who feel like it's a short career. Speaker 0 00:06:08 Hugely inspiring. Yes. Speaker 2 00:06:10 What, what else? I guess they'll find out what else. Oh, Hmm. I have spicy language, so I apologize in advance for that. And these opinions are my own <laugh>. Speaker 0 00:06:21 Mm-hmm. Speaker 2 00:06:22 <affirmative>. And if I say as a teacher, you always speak like it's the truth. Yes. So I sound I sound that way, but that doesn't mean I'm not willing to discuss. Speaker 0 00:06:37 Ooh, I love that. That's the I love that you're blaming the teacher in you for that <laugh>. That is nice. I wonder which one led to the other actually. Was it the teacher that led to that or was it that led that led to you teaching? Speaker 2 00:06:49 Uh, I was a terrible student, so I think that I'm just trying to get back at him. Speaker 0 00:06:56 Got you. Ooh, wow. That is poignant. That is poetic, my friend. Okay, well maybe we'll start here at the end. At this, like, at this like revitalized dancer phase that you're having. You and I sh have shared a couple massive movie musical moments. Lala Land and Vice. Speaker 2 00:07:14 Yes. Speaker 0 00:07:15 And you got to be in a music video with my very own mom who is 70 years old and made her music video cameo, uh, sorry. Music video debut for Jason Raz, choreographed by the one and only Megan Lawson, directed by Taylor James assisted by assisted by Damien Gomez. What a dream freaking team. Speaker 2 00:07:35 It was somebody And it was one shot. It was one shot. And my love handles. My love handles debuted. Yes. <laugh>. I was like, I looked like, uh, you know, I have a new grand niece and she's got those little baby rolls and I was like, oh, she takes after me. Except mine aren't baby rolls. Speaker 0 00:07:58 Listen, I saw you and I was like, well, look at Bill. I never thought that I would see a shirtless bill in a music video. Speaker 2 00:08:04 Well, I, you know what, uh, I did dance in my tidy whitey in a video as well. You probably haven't seen that. Speaker 0 00:08:12 What is it? Uh, searches. Searches, mental Rolodex of it was Speaker 2 00:08:17 Dirty. The pandemic. And they did a series of seven different vignettes of how people spent their time. And mine was dancing around the house in my underwear. Speaker 0 00:08:28 Wait, I, I might have seen this. Who was the, who Speaker 2 00:08:32 Produced? You blocked it from your mind. Speaker 0 00:08:34 No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Who, who produced that? Yes, I have seen this. Speaker 2 00:08:38 Yeah. Dean Bias. Speaker 0 00:08:39 Okay, we're gonna be, we're gonna be linking to this in the journals episode, <laugh>, so everybody can be seeing what I'm seeing right now. Um, listen, I think it's a pretty incredible thing. I the longevity of your career, right? You're talking about having taught for many, many, many, many years and to be having a second wave of a performer career right now. But here is something that I wanted to just throw out there at the top. Okay. Cuz I didn't know this until I was prepping for the episode that you're in. Freaking breaking two. Yes. Electric Aloo, bill Pru. How did I not know this? And tell me everything. How did that happen? How did that feel? I'm gonna watch it again tonight. Speaker 2 00:09:24 Uh, you will never find me. Wait without me by your side. <laugh>. Speaker 0 00:09:28 Okay, well then we have got a date, my Speaker 2 00:09:30 Friend. Um, I was in a company called Breed Dance Theater that Billy Goodson Speaker 0 00:09:36 Okay. Speaker 2 00:09:37 Yes. Was the artistic director of, and he choreographed it and he was like, I'm gonna throw Bill a bone. <laugh> the most unlocker type person I've ever met since the only thing that locks now are my knees. But that's a whole different story. Oh my God. Uh, but anyway, the I know grandpa jokes. Um, Speaker 0 00:09:58 I'm not, that might be the title of the Speaker 2 00:10:01 Episode. It was amazing. It was an amazing, amazing experience because I was completely out of my element and I just Speaker 0 00:10:10 Had to, and that does something to you. Whoa. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Speaker 2 00:10:14 You just have to swim. Yeah. And you can't even say Speaker 0 00:10:17 You're completely disarmed. You can't think. You just have to go. Speaker 2 00:10:21 That's been my experience in a lot of my career. Speaker 0 00:10:24 <laugh>. Ok, tell me more. Ready, say go. Which is, which is a technique unto itself Speaker 2 00:10:29 When we just did, uh, the live appearance with Jason. Speaker 0 00:10:35 Yes. Uh, Speaker 2 00:10:35 On, on Kelly, Speaker 0 00:10:36 On Oscar Oscar day. Speaker 2 00:10:38 I don't remember doing the performance <laugh>. I thought it's Speaker 0 00:10:42 You blacked out. Speaker 2 00:10:43 Uh, well, mean we did it in 17. It was hours. We, from the beginning of rehearsal till the sh shoot was over. It was Speaker 0 00:10:51 17 hours till you were wrapped. Yeah. That was Speaker 2 00:10:53 Three and three and a half minute song. And I honestly, what do you do? You just disassociate yourself from that little voice in your head that's gonna tell you all the reasons why Uhhuh <affirmative> and just say, go away, because I've gotta do this. But I don't remember. I stood up, I did that pirouette in the aisle up pirouette, duh. Right. Speaker 0 00:11:16 And yeah. Speaker 2 00:11:17 Then I don't remember a thing. Speaker 0 00:11:19 Incredible. But Speaker 2 00:11:20 It was fantastic. Speaker 0 00:11:21 You know what, there is this saying I'm reminded of, one of my favorite books of all time is a book about learning, and therefore, it is also a book about teaching. Um, but it's written by a, his name is Josh, wait Skin. And he is the real life person that the movie finding Bobby Fisher was about. So he was a child prodigy, chess champion, um, who came into all of this fame that ultimately ruined his game, which rhymes. And then because he, he left chess because had this like, you know, preteen life crisis of I'm no longer a world champion. And so he started practicing Tai Chi push Hands, which is the combative, uh, form of Tai Chi, became a world champion at Tai Chi, push hands. And so this guy writes a book about learning, and I'm like, yes, please. Anyways, one of the concepts that he talks about in the book is numbers to leave, numbers form to leave form or this offering that you can be so rehearsed at a thing so practiced and so familiar with it that you can ditch it, that you can completely throw it out. Just let go. Yeah. And let go. And that sounds like that's where you've landed. Speaker 2 00:12:33 Well, I guess, or, or maybe I just lost it. <laugh>. No, Speaker 0 00:12:40 Wait. Is it poetic or is it just Speaker 2 00:12:42 You losing it? But it kind of is, is what I feel like is missing a little bit right now in the dance world. But little segue there, if you don't mind, Speaker 0 00:12:52 Let's go. Yes, please. Let's get there. Speaker 2 00:12:56 They people stop building skeletons. The bones of what we do, the, the, the simple steps we're, we're putting the style on it. And it's great. Oh, yes. It's fantastic. And when I, when I say all this stuff, there's no criticism of anyone intended, though. I Speaker 0 00:13:15 Hear that it's Speaker 2 00:13:16 People sensitive, people could take umbridge. And I'm just saying, I'm not going after anybody. I'm talking from my place. And in my place I see people do amazing things. It's like they have the big words, all the big words, but the connector words are gone. The, and the, the of Speaker 0 00:13:37 Oh my gosh. Conjunctions, conjunction, Speaker 2 00:13:40 Punctu not functioning. Yeah. They're not Speaker 0 00:13:42 Functioning. I, I'm, I notice a huge lack of punctuation that we've got without, without a period, without any ellipsis, without a break in line where we can breathe and digest what's falling upon our eyeballs. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, I, I hear you on that. I I would agree on that. Speaker 2 00:14:02 Yeah. This more Speaker 0 00:14:03 Or a general trend. A general trend. Speaker 2 00:14:04 Yeah, of course. We're, we, we're, these are all broad generalizations. Speaker 0 00:14:09 Look at us protecting ourselves, Speaker 2 00:14:10 But they are, because we can be proven wrong for anything we say. Um, Speaker 0 00:14:15 A hundred percent. There's, uh, an exception for everything. Speaker 2 00:14:18 For everything. This morning when I woke up, of course they picked up my phone and I saw this number and it was, it blew my mind. I was like, that r I have to watch it again. So I Speaker 0 00:14:32 Oh, sorry. You mean a dance number? Not a phone number. <laugh>. I was like, what number? Who called <laugh>? Speaker 2 00:14:39 Yes. Yeah. Thanks for filling in those blanks. We, we need them filled in. And I watched it a second time and I was like, what, what happened? Why wasn't it exciting the second time be? And I was like, oh, interesting. It's only surprises. It's only accents. There, it was like exclamation point. Wow. Exclamation point, exclamation. And it was, it was amazing once. Speaker 0 00:15:08 Right. But once the surprise is up, Speaker 2 00:15:11 Done, done. Speaker 0 00:15:12 Okay, well, let me in, let me interrupt you really quick, because I think this might be, you're gonna hate me for stealing the ball out of the air right now, or I'm gonna hate me later for stealing the ball out of, out of the air. One of the things I miss about dance right now is the lack of surprise that we seem to have rehearsed and polished ourselves and gotten so absorbed with looking at ourself that we're almost bored with ourself. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, as I'm watching people look bored dancing or, or look like turned on by themselves, which is kind of confusing to me also. Um, I watch people and I'm like, where is the nowness of it? Like where's the first time quality? So I, I try to train surprise into dancers. I actually have an across the floor I call six step surprise, where we prepare to do a six step pirouette. Speaker 0 00:16:03 Six, and you land on the sixth count, which is the preparation, and then for seven and eight, you do something that is 100% not a pirouette. And the goal is to be genuinely shocked by yourself. By what? Yeah. At what comes out. Because listen, the last time I was truly surprised by dance was an N Y C d a competition where a mini, which means she was somewhere between seven and 10, forgot the choreography on stage and peed. Okay. That was the last time I was genuinely riveted. Wow. By like, I was so, like, I was so inve, I was all in. I almost jumped up there and like sweeped her up and like helped her. I just was, I was so, when people say on the edge of my seat, I was genuinely leaning forward, almost up out of the chair. I was so engaged in that moment. And that's because it hadn't been rehearsed. It wasn't supposed to happen. It wasn't the plan. And it, and it was fascinating to watch. It's fascinating. Anyway, back to you. Back to you about surprises though. Speaker 2 00:17:04 Hear I'd like that though. I'm peeing right now in tribute, um, <laugh> is that everybody can do the tricks. Everybody can do the tricks. The only place to stand out anymore is in between. Mm. Like the flow when, so if I'm auditioning and we hit something and then I can get the producer looking at me here, they're gonna watch my trick, which is gonna be okay, cuz I'm gonna have the trick, but I'm gonna have something else. It's, it's like all dancing exclamation points, Speaker 0 00:17:46 Right? Yes. It's bad punctuation. It's shouty Speaker 2 00:17:49 And it's become so individuated we've become so like, class is not about training anymore. It's about getting that video for you. Hmm. Speaker 0 00:17:58 Well, there's a big conversation around this right now. Oh, Speaker 2 00:18:02 Uh, uh, there should be because Speaker 0 00:18:05 Yes. Speaker 2 00:18:06 Pot, I mean jazz, jazz has got jazz. I could go forever. Jazz is gone. There's probably a half a dozen people that still teach real jazz, which is about lines, pota beret. I would love to see some of these kids who are amazing. And again, no criticism where a cross ball change turning Pota beret, like really make it sing because the choreography does all the work. Now, kids don't have to do anything. The choreography does the work for them. So they just have to show up. Oh, man. Be clean and in it. Speaker 0 00:18:42 Well, and they have to be able to learn it. I will say, I took class at Millennium the other night. I, we, I, we were dished out 16 eight counts of choreography. And I was, I was privy to it before class had started, and I still struggled in that room. So I think, you know, there's the, the, the density of movement that they're given is, has gone way up. And the nuance of, like you mentioned, the bones has gone way down. The, like, can I leave you with a pot, with a, with a jazz square for two eight counts and still be interested in watching you? Let's find out. Speaker 2 00:19:18 Yeah. The density is amazing, but mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I'm more interested in what's underneath that, because that's the true individual. That's the person, you know, I'm assuming when we are having an audition that the kids are gonna be great, they're gonna be able to do the work, they're gonna get the choreography, but there is just getting the choreography. And, and they, I I want people to understand that if you can shine, doing simple work doesn't have to be easy, but simple work that involves Speaker 0 00:20:00 Transition, different Speaker 2 00:20:01 And the lines. If you can do that, then your work is gonna be better informed when you get into that dance work. Speaker 0 00:20:11 Mm-hmm. <affirmative> Well said. Yes. Well said. It's not about either or. It's not about be a person who dances simple. Always. And it's not about be a person who can dance, dance the dance stuff, but like, you will be better informed in each of those spaces. It's not in either or. Um, but you can do both. You must have one to do the other. Is that the argument? Speaker 2 00:20:33 Yeah. That or or argument. It's pastier. People want to go where they can do what they can do already and just play in that playground. They don't wanna go over there where the other things to play on are where they're gonna look awkward or they're not gonna feel polished. And totally, there's where the work lies. There's where the work lies in the weaknesses, not in the strengths. We, we don't really improve from the good things that happen. We, the mistakes are what improve us. Speaker 0 00:21:09 Oh, yes. That's Speaker 2 00:21:10 Where we learn. People don't wanna make mistakes anymore. They just wanna look good because that video is capturing them. Yeah. And I don't, I don't object to the idea of, of cameras in classrooms, and I know you've done podcasts about this mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, and I think there's a lot of good use. But if it's just getting to something de post, that's one thing. If it's something where you are gonna sit and look at it and dissect what you're doing, not, did I look good or did I look bad? But how can I use this to improve myself? Not how can I use this to get more likes? Speaker 0 00:21:47 Oof. Speaker 0 00:21:47 Go get somebody's attention. Love this. I think this makes me wanna speak to two different thoughts and yes, I, I ha I'll link to my podcast episode about cameras in the classroom. It's something that I've focused on a lot for myself because I used to respond really negatively to the introduction of a camera I would choke. Um, but what I've learned, you know, through a lot of thought work, managing my mind, new tools that I have to help me, you know, actually think about thinking and how my thinking affects my results, um, is that the camera had nothing to do with me choking. It was my thoughts about the camera, me thinking that it was this portal to immortality, this forever commitment to the thing, and that it needed to be perfect thinking that way made me choke. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> not this piece of plastic and glass and metal. Speaker 0 00:22:40 Sure. So kind of redistributed the power a little bit there in terms of who has the power in the room. I think it's the humans that have blood and guts and brains Absolutely. With prefrontal cortexes and stuff. But, um, but that, that was just one thing I wanted to say. You also mentioned this, like the idea of strengths and weaknesses. Obviously any strength if overused can be a weakness. But this remind me of a, a alos kinsky quote that was shared to me by, by someone that I love very dearly. And it goes like, this one should judge a man mainly from his depravities virtues can be faked, depravities are real. In other words, like Right. Like, I would never fake being a, a shitty tipper, or I would never fake being like cruel to waiting wait staff. So when you see me do that, like judge me based on that versus like, I, people can pretend to be virtuous all day long and they do <laugh>. So I think it's also an interesting thought to kind of transfer that onto a dancer, judge the dancer based on their, their, their shortcomings or weaknesses, not based on what they do very well. And now I'm, as I say that out loud, I'm thinking like, oh my God, what are my weaknesses? Where do I need to, where do I need to go to to pump out the jam? Speaker 2 00:23:56 You just need to go where the movement doesn't feel natural to your body. You know that I've done plenty of jobs where I'm like, oh, why are they going that direction? <laugh>, my body doesn't wanna go that way. I have to make my body go that way. But if I just go to the classes where I love the teacher and I love the choreography, and I know I'm gonna have a really great time, there's nothing wrong with that. There's also nothing wrong with chocolate cake, but you don't eat it all the time for every meal. It's dessert people. Yeah. This is training has disappeared. The idea of going into class and kicking ass and sweating without any reward other than showing up and dancing with your friends Speaker 0 00:24:48 Do or doing the work, like putting in the investment, doing better. Yeah. But Speaker 2 00:24:51 That's the reward is that's being in that room. Yeah. Being, being we, I, you know, I teach mostly adults and we had a class two weeks ago that was my favorite class I've had in five years. I have people that are from basically mid forties to, I have a student who's 72 and we were dancing hard. Now everybody's doing their version of it, but Speaker 0 00:25:17 Right, right, Speaker 2 00:25:18 Right. That room, we steamed the mirror, we steamed the mirrors and people were just like, and I was like, this is a dance class. This is what I want. A room full of people who are gonna probably throw up if they have to do it one more time. <laugh>. You know, Speaker 0 00:25:39 It's so, it's so funny that you mentioned that actually the last class that I took at Millennium, this kid, it, it's, it's truly unbelievable what he did with the amount of time that he had and the material that was given. I am truly shook to my core. He immediately left the room and threw up right out front of millennium right after that pass. Um, yeah, that is, that's the mark of, of a great class. That's the mark of a certain achievement. Okay. So is that what you're, is that what you're going for? Steamy mirrors and, and Upchuck. <laugh>. I can't believe I just said that. I'm a hundred Speaker 2 00:26:15 <laugh>. No, that makes me 150. So don't do it. I'm hundred. Uh, Speaker 0 00:26:21 What is the mark? Is it a feeling? Is it a thing? What is it? The mark of a great class Speaker 2 00:26:27 To me, the mark of a great class as a room full of people who work to transcend the choreography, who respect it, but who add onto it. Not steps, but they add something to it. They don't give me, I give them a coloring book. I do not want to get the coloring book back. I want you to color it. I want you to do something with it. But, and this is where I think the camera has shifted things a little bit. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, they're dancing for dancing sake. They're not dancing for themselves. They're dancing for dance's sake. You know, there's been a, a real shift in the mentality. This is a big statement. So Speaker 0 00:27:15 Say Speaker 2 00:27:16 I may the words later, there's just this shift that we are dancing for ourselves. And that is true, but No, no, no, not the people that are here trying to get jobs. We're dancing for an audience. We're dancing for a choreographer, we're dancing for somebody else. And if we are thinking about ourselves, it becomes masturbatory. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And that's what that, when you were talking about that self-satisfied look that they get, that's what's happening. Yeah. It's, that's wild, Speaker 0 00:27:45 Isn't it? Speaker 2 00:27:46 Don't dance like the choreographer's. Like, I don't care if you don't like the choreography or the way it feels. Do the job. Speaker 0 00:27:55 Oh, there's that. You Speaker 2 00:27:57 Know, I mean, and we just have to remember that Speaker 0 00:28:01 We are the class though. What is the job if we're, if we're talking a training sense is like, who gets to decide what the job is in a class? Speaker 2 00:28:12 The teacher in my classes, I almost always give, this is a, we are shooting a wedding flash mob on a cruise ship. And this is what Speaker 0 00:28:22 For Speaker 2 00:28:22 You. We are on a vaudeville stage. The focus is this. You have got to create more. I don't want the choreography back. I gave it to you. Speaker 0 00:28:32 Mm-hmm. Speaker 2 00:28:33 I gave it to Speaker 0 00:28:33 You. So you give it with the context of a potential performance or a destination, if you will, for the material. And then, yeah. That's fantastic. I love that. That's so much fun. Because Speaker 2 00:28:44 That's w well, they need that, that they need context, because otherwise it's just steps. And, and so much is just steps performed by people who are just trying to execute the steps perfectly. And it just becomes like a diamond, which is beautiful, but not warm and not real. It's something to look at, but doesn't make you feel anything. Speaker 0 00:29:08 Hmm. It, it is a, a lovely thing to, to look at, but it can't it can't hold you though. It can't love you. No, Speaker 2 00:29:15 It can't. And it's not warm. It's not warm. Yeah. It's, Speaker 0 00:29:18 It's, it's literally ice. Speaker 2 00:29:20 Yes. Come Speaker 0 00:29:21 On, come on with the metaphor. Speaker 2 00:29:23 I want people to want more than that video or want more. Speaker 0 00:29:29 He wants more Speaker 2 00:29:31 Than to feel than to feel, just feel like they got it. Right. Right. Yeah. The idea of Right is important professionally, the idea of Right artistically sucks because it limits you Speaker 0 00:29:44 Agree. It kills creative. Yes. Kills creative. That is the death. Back to your creativity. Back Speaker 2 00:29:51 To your story, uh, a little reflection of one that you were talking about some when I was a young dancer, um, and I was out there trying, I had this whole collection of myself. I have short legs, big nose, big butt. Wasn't very, wasn't very handsome. This was the, this, Speaker 0 00:30:11 This is the story that you, Speaker 2 00:30:13 This was the narrative. So I would go to an audition and stand there and try to be the mo a model next to the other model Speaker 0 00:30:21 Models looking <laugh>. Yeah. And Speaker 2 00:30:25 Not get the job. And take that as a validation that I was short Speaker 0 00:30:29 Shortly evidence that your story is Speaker 2 00:30:31 True. This is why I can't get the job. Not understanding that it was that mindset that was keeping me from getting the job. Because back then always, but back then more, they were hiring people, individuals, and, and, and the choreography wasn't as complicated and complex. So more of you had to be present. And, you know, if you want somebody to smile and make people smile and laugh, I'm, I'm pretty good at that. But yes, I never let that shine. Cause I was, I was busy. Like, go, I was busy going, um, Speaker 0 00:31:11 Ah, I Speaker 2 00:31:12 Don't have anything, Speaker 0 00:31:13 You know, bumming yourself down. Right. Speaker 2 00:31:16 And that's why at 55, when Michael Rooney called me about doing Muppets. Speaker 0 00:31:25 Yes. Speaker 2 00:31:25 I didn't have to, I didn't have to worry. I, I was like, now when I go to an audition, I'm like, oh, you wanna a chat? Have fun. I'll see you. I'm bed, I'm gonna McDonald's, um, <laugh>, I, I I, and it doesn't have anything to do with who I am as a person. You know, the, to you young dancers out there, you old dancers out there. This is the way I say it. You go to your closet and you pick out a t-shirt to wear. You don't hate the other T-shirts. You picked out the t-shirt, you wanted it. The other t-shirts don't cry or feel depressed about it. They're like, oh, the I next Wednesday, next, whatever, you know, Speaker 0 00:32:10 <laugh>, or even next day, Speaker 2 00:32:11 In a way, in a way, we're just feeling a need for the producer and the choreographer. They need somebody, they have something in mind. It's not your bad. When they cut girls, I'll say, girls, ladies from Beyonce's tour, the top 40 could get the job. But they need two. Speaker 0 00:32:31 Yeah. Speaker 2 00:32:32 The top 40 are fantastic. They're excellent, they're amazing. They're cutting them. It's not, it's so specific and so not about who you are. It doesn't make you bad to get So Speaker 0 00:32:45 Not so not personal. 100%. Yes. I shout this loud and proud. Speaker 2 00:32:49 So now when I go, I'm like, hear it. This is what I have to offer to you today. This is what I can, this Speaker 0 00:32:57 Is what it's today. This is, this is me today. Speaker 2 00:33:00 And if you want it, I'm ready. If you don't want it, can I leave <laugh>? Don't beat me. Speaker 0 00:33:06 <laugh>, please, please don't make, you're gonna wear my shirt. That is me today. Yeah. Yeah. It's so, oh, bill. So Speaker 2 00:33:14 Anyway, I can do all those kinds of silly analogies. You know, Speaker 0 00:33:18 I love a t-shirt analogy, especially because we cut t-shirts. Like actually you cut them to make them like different. So I think that that's poetic. Hey, my friend jumping out here for a quick hot second to tell you that our friend, Togi Barcelo, previous podcast guest and world renowned movement coach, choreographer and certified breathwork coach, whose clients include Alicia Keys, du Lipa, Tolo, and Miguel, just to name a few. Yes. That Tunie is launching an app full of curated guided meditations, science supported breathing exercises, and tui's signature expert embodiment, guidance. All of this to help you become the best version of you and wiggle into your bliss. So if you are a person who is dealing with stress, anxiety, insomnia, fatigue, adhd, chronic pain, and the likes, the tuy app is for you. It is an affordable pathway to healing. It is so fantastic. Pretty, please check it out. I've been using it for weeks now. I really, really enjoy the interface. It is user-friendly, it is so easy to navigate. The content is fantastic. So please check our show notes for a link or search your app store for the TU app, T o o g I E, wherever you get your apps. I've been using it and digging it, and I cannot wait to see you there. Speaker 0 00:34:49 I did wanna say kind of like not to, not to fully retrograde here, but you won the outstanding educator honor at the World Choreography Awards last year. And in your speech, which I did take notes on, but cannot find the damn note to save my life, I must, you know what, I didn't want you to see me in the front freaking row on my phone. So I didn't take it on my phone. I took it somewhere else, and now I can't find him pissed. Anyways, one of the things that I remember you saying, and this kind of ties back into dancers and work in class, is that you talked about being a working dancer then meant that you were in class constantly. And today, dancers take class as a function to get work. Like it is an audition, it is a self-tape, it is a network, it is a, which I think it always has been a network, but now, of course, game more than ever, it's a self, it's a self tape kind of almost, actually. You go there to be captured mm-hmm. On camera and hopefully, you know, spotted, desired hired. And, um, I just thought that that was so poignant. I remember, you know, my first time Visiting Edge, I think it was 13 or 14, and I you you've probably heard this before, the specific smell of edge performing art center. Speaker 2 00:36:09 It's the fourth floor <laugh>, Speaker 0 00:36:11 The fourth floor smelled like work, smelled like working dancer. And yes, not all the dancers were there all the time because they were doing work, but it, it meant something different. And I have noticed even, it might be less, maybe dramatic than the change that you're talking about, but this class was, uh, haggard, it was sweaty, it was raw, it was stripped down. And today it is glammed up. It is polished. It is poised. And not all of them. I do wanna shout out like some of my favorite teachers in the last fully in the last 10 years, teach classes that are accessible, that are for all people, regardless of, you know, ability, race, background training, um, skill level. Like there class has become a very inclusive space. There are interesting, Jillian Meyers teaches a, a class at Genesis called Rhythmic Tendencies. Um, and you must go and take it because it is so not all of those things that, that you mentioned, you know Yeah. Speaker 0 00:37:25 Frustrations about. So I think that kind of in a, in a, in the silver lining sense, the, the becoming of class as a filming space has made room for so many other different kinds of training Yes. For different kinds of people. And it's very clear, you know, who you're gonna go take to be, get put on camera and you know what studios that happens at. And I, and I do think if they're doing it well anyways, there's a discussion about that from the outset, um, on behalf of the, you know, whoever's leading the room. Oh, absolutely. But I, I think it is a special thing. And like you said before, a very valid and important conversation to be talking about. Speaker 2 00:38:09 And, and those classes, I, I guess my response to what you're saying is, okay, you're 18, you're 22, you're 25, whatever, you're here, where's the training? Where's the class that you're going to just to train and not train in style, but actually train your body? And, and back to when I said about bones, you have to count on your bones. And if you don't go to a class and repeat it, a class that moves slow enough for you to really work on controlling your body and positions and find the lines, once you have it, you can let it all go because your body understand to form. Right. It, it, and if you lead with style, style will change and leave you behind. Speaker 2 00:39:03 You have, there's a reason why ballet still exists. Hmm. Do you know, and I'm not saying that everybody should go take ballet class, though. The challenge for a lot of the people I watch mm-hmm. <affirmative> would be, you need, you should go in that room and, and discipline your body. It's like having a child. If you've got a child running around yelling in a restaurant, it's bad parenting. Okay. So you're being a bad parent to your body. You're letting your body, you're disrespecting your instrument by not going and fine tuning it and working, not just doing it, but actually training it. Cause at the end of the day, so many of the jobs that I see, the big jobs, the movies are all jazz. Yeah. Yeah. It's, they're jazz and, and dancers are not taking jazz, which is of course, I'll plug my class. Uh, no do it. Speaker 2 00:40:02 I'm just kidding. Uh, no, but I'm just saying go to a class where you actually can focus on technique and not the fight to get the choreography where you can actually experience the class in your body in a tempo that maybe it's a little slow for you, but guess what? You can really dig deep into your body, then you can Yes. Really find where, find it. Because once you stimulate it, it stays stimulated for a while, you know? Mm-hmm. <affirmative> for a while. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. But you've gotta go back to it. So all these dancers who were like, I studied ballet for years. I'm like, that was years ago. Uh, <laugh>. Speaker 0 00:40:43 True. True. Speaker 2 00:40:44 Guilty. Guilty. Well, all of us. And, and one other thing I wanna say in regards to that, and I don't know where we are in time, but Speaker 0 00:40:52 We're good. We're doing good. Speaker 2 00:40:54 Something else I said at the awards, I believe is as a teacher, first of all, one of my favorite quotes about teaching is as when you teach, you're learning twice. So I am constantly learning, constantly learning, learning again, and trying to find new ways to, for myself to do it so that then I can pass it on because mm-hmm. <affirmative>, if you've got 12 people, you need six different ways to say it. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, because they're not gonna all hear it the same way. Um, oh, I hate when I lose my, my Space Speaker 0 00:41:31 Bill. That was wonderful. Was that what the other thing that you said? Well, first of all, I was gonna ask you to just repeat that speech that you gave at the world choreography. I wish I Speaker 2 00:41:41 Could remember it. Speaker 0 00:41:42 Oh, you were on so much fire. You Speaker 2 00:41:45 Were on i trans channel. Uh, the highly did trans were just because you film it doesn't mean you should post it. That is an important thing for you all to think about. Only put your best work out there. There's no reason to see what you did. And it looks kind of half-assed. I mean, I appreciate your effort on the half-ass, but what, who wants to see a half-ass? I wanna see a whole ass. Do you know, I don't wanna see it. I wanna see the clean, strong, powerful, proud performance. Not some namby-pamby. I got through it and gave you a Mm at the end. Stop it Speaker 0 00:42:20 Post. Love that bullet. Speaker 2 00:42:21 Post it, post it. The other thing is I cannot teach your body. I teach your mind. And if your body's not learning, it's probably your mind's fault. Not my fault. Okay. Not that I'm saying you're making it my fault, but you need to realize if your body's not doing it, it's because you are not telling it to. I mean, yes. Within limits, we all have our limitations in our bodies. I love that. Trust me. Yeah. But this idea that you're being a bad teacher, and I hate to say that, cuz that sounds, so that's, I've said bad twice, I'm assuming, but you are not. I hear you. Again, it's the discipline. Speaker 0 00:43:06 Yeah. Speaker 2 00:43:07 The discipline of your body. We do things in class sometimes, and I'm like, this is not pretty. It doesn't feel good. Uh, it doesn't look good. I mean, but it's certainly not making your body do that. Right. If you, you know, you're like, it doesn't, I'm like, it doesn't matter because you are making your body do it. You are taking control of your body so that you can rely on it whenever you need to for whatever you need to. But you can't do it at full out performance, skip, uh, speed all the time. When, when you're focusing on selling, you need to come in. That's when you need to be focused about yourself. When you're in class doing that. Then there's the other times when you sell. But are you ever taking the time out to practice, discipline and focus mm-hmm. <affirmative> and control Speaker 0 00:43:59 Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Speaker 2 00:44:00 Anyway, Speaker 0 00:44:01 You know what my editor and executive assistant Riley Higgins was just telling me, uh, about something Dominique Kelly and I have to say his name, because now you've mentioned people who don't teach jazz. I think he does. And he does it. He does Speaker 2 00:44:13 Very well. Well, absolutely. Speaker 0 00:44:14 He's great. And I would love to shout him out and have his classes packed. Um, but she mentioned that last time she was in his class, he made a note to the room that, and I'm gonna botch it, but obviously, because I'm already playing two degrees of telephone. But something to, to the effect of stop performing now. Like the performance that's happening as you are learning the combo can stop, learn the steps, learn the mechanics, learn the transitions, learn the weight transfer, learn the sequence, and then maybe eventually, if all that stuff lines up sure, go ahead and practice performance quality. Meanwhile, that was the exact opposite of my approach when I was taking class at Millennium. I was, uh, you know, giving myself kind of a, a pass in terms of the amount of material that was coming at me. And this was the second time they had taught this combo. Speaker 0 00:45:12 I recently shared it on, on Instagram saw. So I, the story that I told myself is that I, I was, thank you, bill, you're back. I was thinking of, I was thinking of that video actually, when you were saying, you don't need to share everything. And I was like, shit, that's <laugh>. That's probably one. It's not my best work. But the message is that that moment was profound. I knew I had to share that because that moment was profound. We'll talk about that in a second. But the, uh, I gave myself a pass because I knew the last time that I took a dance class like that was many months ago. And actually that I knew the choreography. I, I assisted Marty in class. He taught my love. Those moves are in my bond, so that, that doesn't, I wasn't learning, you know, I wasn't, I I was helping. Speaker 0 00:45:59 Um, but on this night I was learning, it was truly 16 or more, eight counts. And I said to myself, enjoy, enjoy your body, enjoy sound. Enjoy being around people that you know and respect and enjoy being around people you've never met before. Bill, that room was full of new and hungry and 12 year olds, like young people and good. They were great. So many of them were so great. And so anyways, the, the, the interesting thing, I think takeaway is that you can decide if you, how you would like to approach the class, but if the teacher makes a request and you have, obviously, you know, you've paid for this class, you value this person's perspective, do what they say. Speaker 2 00:46:45 Absolutely. If you get a correction, if that's the only thing you do, right, the next time, Speaker 0 00:46:50 That's the note. Speaker 2 00:46:50 Do that, Speaker 0 00:46:52 Do the note, give, take the note. Speaker 2 00:46:54 Why else are you there? Speaker 0 00:46:56 Take the note. Take the Speaker 2 00:46:58 Note. I, I, I, I, it boggles me, it Speaker 0 00:47:02 Boggles me such a valuable Speaker 2 00:47:03 Tool. So I just, I just want to encourage everybody who's listening, who's out there working. Every class doesn't have to be one particular type of class. The more you can do, the more range you have, I would just say it's like dating men and women. You have a better chance of getting a date on Saturday night <laugh> Speaker 0 00:47:29 Open up the pool. Speaker 2 00:47:30 Yeah. Really? You're crappy at ballet. Yeah. And you'll still be crappy if you never go. Speaker 0 00:47:38 100%. That is. Speaker 2 00:47:40 But if you go to ballet class, you might learn enough to fake a upper body porta broth when you're in that movie and they ask you to do somebody at the bar. Speaker 0 00:47:50 Yes. Speaker 2 00:47:51 You know, it, it's, it's not about being a ballet dancer, it's about understanding how to make your body reflect the energy and the line of the ballet dancer. Speaker 0 00:48:05 Hmm. Speaker 2 00:48:05 You know, that's, which is what I did in electric Boogaloo, you know what I mean? I didn't, I Speaker 0 00:48:09 Was exactly, exactly the line. Speaker 2 00:48:10 I just did the line. I followed the pattern, which, you know, Speaker 0 00:48:15 I am gonna go watch. I can't, oh, I'm coming over and I'm gonna bring it and I'm, and a bottle of wine and you're gonna talk me through it. Oh, two Speaker 2 00:48:22 Bottle bottles, <laugh>, Speaker 0 00:48:23 That, uh, what you just said reminded me of something that Teddy Foreign brought up recent in an episode recently. Um, he considers his training, research and development of his body Speaker 2 00:48:35 And his Speaker 0 00:48:36 Research and development and yeah. In that, in that context, it's actually really benefits you to put yourself in spaces that you aren't familiar with, that you don't have any body memory of. Right. Like I have. Yeah. Whatever. We don't need to go down that road. Um, and I think approaching class as r and d versus as an audition, it would be a huge shift for a lot of people today. Speaker 2 00:49:01 I, I, I, I concur. I think as hell, I it, it, and that's what's missing a lot in mm-hmm. <affirmative> even. And I see it in the personality of the dancers. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. I see it. And you said, even in class, you know the way it is. I remember when I was a young man and we used to go out dancing mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you could wear whatever you wanted. My friend Audrey and I used to go out and we would take one of those folding lawn chairs and we would put it by the dance floor, Speaker 0 00:49:32 <laugh> shut. Speaker 2 00:49:33 I would be, I would be in like, I would be in like dolphin floor and a, and a mesh tank top and she'd be in whatever she was in, and we would dance and then we would go and lay Speaker 0 00:49:44 On the lounge and lay down in your Speaker 2 00:49:45 Lap car. And everybody thought it was fantastic. And now there's such a, a price to pay to go out. You gotta look a certain way, be a certain way, have a certain level of polish. And, and where's the fun in that? I want to go out. Where's the fun? Where's the fun? You know, where, where's the fun? So where's the fun in always having to push to the polish? Sometimes you just wanna be grubby, you should wanna be grubby. You. I just wanna see people investigate. Speaker 0 00:50:24 There's room for grubby. Like you can be that sometimes. You can definitely be that. Absolutely. I love that. Bringing grubby back, um, <laugh>. But also for me, it's always like, again, I kind of, I try to steer away from these false dichotomies, this idea that one is good and one is bad, and there will be a winner or a loser or this, they're all good. It's like the, the, the goal is for you to be at the command center and for there to be no space in which you cannot deliver. Like, if I really needed you to scrub down and be a actual grime boss and deliver at your highest level from that space, it would be really great if you could that you didn't need to rely on, you know, fancy moves or fancy camera angles, wardrobe, glam squad, all that stuff to deliver a memorable performance. So I think as far as a dancer's responsibility, I like to deliver memorable performances. That's kind of my, always my agenda. Um, yes. Then I really, I, yeah, I like knowing that I can do that from different, uh, different angles, different approaches for doing that. And that's kind of the greatest thing about what we do about art in general, is that there is no one way to do it. Um, but I love that you are drawing attention to and putting a magnifying glass over strengths being overused these days and, uh, areas for improvement. Speaker 2 00:51:51 Yeah. Because there's, you can get more work if that's where, if that's what motivates you, why only do the job that is this job is this. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, why not work on the spectrum of jobs? Why, you know, back when I was teaching at Edge regularly, I, there were several hip hop dancers who would come and take my jazz class. Speaker 0 00:52:16 Yeah. Speaker 2 00:52:17 And becau and they were like, we need to understand how this works because there is a lot of melding of styles and ideas and shoot, it's not like you, it hurts you to go and spend some time in a space that you're unfamiliar with. You're not gonna just, it's not just gonna happen when you get there, you pray. Right. Cause you tithe, you're not, you're Jesus going to help you with that double pi. We <laugh>, it's not Jesus. It is. And Jesus is busy. He's like, do the Pi, we on your own, but you have in a ballet class, so you're not gonna be able to Speaker 0 00:52:59 <laugh>. Speaker 2 00:53:00 So enjoy your own personal hell that you've created. Speaker 0 00:53:03 And that's truly what I, what I have done for myself with ballet. We Speaker 2 00:53:07 All have, we all listen, we all do. We, it's not, I'm not sitting here going, I got it figured out. It's taken me 65 years to, you know mm-hmm. <affirmative>, get to this point. And I, you know, I, yeah. I just want to, to encourage everybody to explore mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you know, I'm worried about dance in Los Angeles a little bit because it's become so fractured. It's, it's become so pop up, drop in. Speaker 0 00:53:40 Mm. Speaker 2 00:53:42 In in terms Los, what Speaker 0 00:53:43 Do you think is, what, what do you think is the cause? I dunno, do you have an idea of a solution? <laugh>? It's a way harder Speaker 2 00:53:51 Question. I, I, I think, I think, well I think the, the, you know, cuz we've talked about a, uh, reopening or opening a another studio. But Speaker 0 00:54:00 Have Speaker 2 00:54:01 You, unless the main in less than look at that face. Unless, Speaker 0 00:54:06 Unless, I'm sorry, bill, but there is a void, the space that edge. P a c inhabited, there is a gaping hole. I, I know, you know, you know better than it, but Speaker 2 00:54:16 I worry that, and part of the worry is, is the mentality of the students. I'm worry that it's changed too much to get them to rotate back into training mode as opposed to, you know what I mean? Because it has become, well, as you said, networking, auditioning. So it's Speaker 0 00:54:39 What if, what if we're not going back, bill? What if we're going into a new mode of training? Fair enough, Speaker 2 00:54:45 Fair enough. Speaker 0 00:54:46 You know, what if it, it is grubby plus, you know, Speaker 2 00:54:52 Smelly, but it can exist. Absolutely. Speaker 0 00:54:55 Smelly plus Polish. I don't think going back is the answer ever. Speaker 2 00:54:59 I guess I did, I mean back, I just meant in terms of Speaker 0 00:55:03 The values. Speaker 2 00:55:04 The values. Yeah. Speaker 0 00:55:06 I hear you Speaker 2 00:55:06 Values, uh, I don't know how New York maintained it. I guess maybe the state helped the studios more or something. Uh, I Speaker 0 00:55:16 Don't know. I'm curious. I'm curious. Yeah, I'm curious. That's a great question. Speaker 2 00:55:20 But here, you know, there's always been a dichotomy in Los Angeles of different types of schools feel different needs all important. Every need. Yes. Every need. You need every color of crayon. Speaker 0 00:55:37 Yes. Speaker 2 00:55:37 And I want the 64 with the sharpener on the back. Hundred percent. Okay. Hundred Speaker 0 00:55:43 Percent. Speaker 2 00:55:43 I don't want the little wax one like this Speaker 0 00:55:46 That they, the four color one that they give you at restaurants, but they Speaker 2 00:55:49 Don't hardly color at all. Speaker 0 00:55:52 The request from restaurants. Yes. <laugh>. Speaker 2 00:55:55 Like if there's a page to color, um, I just, I've, I don't know. Can we get, can we get back on track with the idea of, again, not being so individuated that we fit a tiny slot Now, Speaker 0 00:56:16 Uhhuh <affirmative>, Speaker 2 00:56:17 I, I just want to, and that's part of why I appreciate that you're letting me Yammer about this, but it's that idea that you are more than what you do already. You have, what is it? You have multitudes inside of you. Yes. Why are you only focusing on one thing and Yes. That's your, that's your specialty. That's your, that's the point of the triangle. Yes. But there's a whole lot of stuff behind that tr behind that point. Speaker 0 00:56:46 I, yeah. The base of it, the, the whole, the mass of it is back there. Yeah. Yeah. So here's my, here's the thought. An unpopular thought, but the voice of maybe the, the student generation, the student body, if you will, is like, I don't, I don't remember how much classes cost because I Oh, and I wanted to talk to you about the scholarship program. I taught at Millennium very early on. I had an adult ballet class. It was, uh, for all levels Saturday mornings. It was how I was able to train at Millennium. And I saved up my pennies in my piggy bank to buy class cards at Edge. But classes are expensive. So when we're talking about developing new spaces, we have to be talking about developing new payment plans and methods and ways to make it accessible. Um, I, because that's why people are selective in their training. It's of course we can't afford all of it. It's so expensive. Speaker 2 00:57:43 But like, you know, it's, but then in New York, there's, Speaker 0 00:57:47 Or it's one of the reasons something Speaker 2 00:57:49 Here, I mean, there's a lot of reasons that go to it. And Speaker 0 00:57:52 That's true. It's a big, big, big conversation Speaker 2 00:57:54 Expense for the student, the payment for the teacher being Speaker 0 00:58:00 Found regularity of, of the class Speaker 2 00:58:02 People and people and people being there, teachers being there regularly, because of course, yes. People have to supplement. It's a very complicated Speaker 0 00:58:12 Little ecosystem. Yeah. Speaker 2 00:58:14 And, and, but, but even without that, there are still places if you just seek them out, and Lord knows you will seek out every other thing a store that you like a coffee, that you like a donut, that you like a pizza that's true. That you like, that's you go for. That's true. That's true. But you will not travel for class, or you will not, you know what I mean? You just wanna go to one place. Interesting. And, and, and like, don't be that naive. Speaker 0 00:58:46 Interesting. Yeah. To think I hear that Speaker 2 00:58:49 One. To think that one. Any one person it takes, it takes a village. Speaker 0 00:58:57 Yeah. Speaker 2 00:58:57 It takes a village. Speaker 0 00:58:59 Oh my gosh, bill. I have a podcast, not a dance studio. And it does, it takes a village. <laugh>. I can only imagine. I, okay, so I wanna ask you if it's okay, I, because I, there are a small handful of new studios coming up. A lot of rental only studios. Yes. A lot of teachers doing their own class schedule and, and showing up at different, popping up at different places. Um, but I've seen a couple studios take on training program, like a, a group of dancers that I think pay to be there, I think. Um, and then they get some, uh, a massive amount of class as part of a, you know, collective training program. Because I, I was never an Edge scholarship kid, but I saw from the outside the wonders that that program did. I am just straight up curious how that program worked economically. Did they get training for free? I know they had to audition. Did they pay to be in that program? How did that work? Speaker 2 00:59:59 They paid a stipend of like, it, it started I think at the end it was $2,000 for the year. But that money went back into their, the Speaker 0 01:00:12 Program itself. Speaker 2 01:00:13 All the classes, their head shots, their show, um, Speaker 0 01:00:17 Which was so good. The Edge Scholarship show was so Speaker 2 01:00:21 <laugh>. Thank you. I I really, I miss, I really mi I miss it. I miss it too. Um, yeah, so much. Uh, and Randy, you know, we can't get out of that without saying Randy a layer. He was just as important to this as me. Yes. It's not. Yes. Um, but you know, it a again, it takes a village. The teachers were willing mm-hmm. <affirmative> to let the kids take class for a very small, very minuscule payment. Speaker 0 01:00:51 Yep, yep, yep. Got Speaker 2 01:00:52 It. And, and we just basically paid for everything else over that. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, we didn't have grants. We didn't have funding. We didn't have anything. Uh, I will say proudly that Randy and I gave everything we could to the, the community and to the program and to the studio. Yes. You know, yes, it was sometimes it wasn't enough, but we did everything we could do. And that program, I'm so proud of it. Those kids, the, uh, the other thing about the program was they were forced to do the classes that we set. Speaker 0 01:01:31 That is interesting. And, and how many classes per day and how many All, all mandatory Speaker 2 01:01:36 Depended, everything was mandatory. They, wow. Uh, at the first we started, it started with 16 classes a week, plus three, two and a half hour classes that were just for them. Speaker 0 01:01:49 Wow. And that is a lot of dance. Speaker 2 01:01:52 It it, it was a lot of dance. And it was always started with four ballet classes. And I would always ask them, at the beginning of the year, we would do a sheet, uh, kind of like about themselves and stuff. And one of the things I said, who are your favorite teachers? And when they would write them, I would not put them in those classes Speaker 0 01:02:11 Set up. Look at you. Speaker 2 01:02:12 Because the truth is, they wanted, they're, they're, they're humans. They want to go where they feel Speaker 0 01:02:18 Good, where they comfortable, were they comfort, comfortable? Were they're comfortable and, Speaker 2 01:02:21 Or, or, or, or, or what They're where, you know, their passion lies. And I'm like, right, your passion is dance. Not that person's class. Your passion is dance. Wow. If it's just that person's class, I don't want you in the program. Speaker 0 01:02:34 Wow. Okay. Speaker 2 01:02:35 Because it's not right for you. This is huge. It's not right for you. This is huge. It's dancing. It's who, I mean, you know, it's hula, do hula, you know, whatever. Folk dancing, go, country line dancing. All of it is valuable. It's all training, training, training. That's what's missing to me. People are dancing, people are going to class, they're working hard, but are they training? Are, do they have a schedule? Do they do a Monday or Sunday night schedule for the week? These are when I go to the gym. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, these are when I work. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, these are the classes I am taking. And then they do that because that's the way to get there. That's the way to, that's the way to get there. Speaker 0 01:03:15 Create the schedule. Stick to it. Stick Speaker 2 01:03:18 To it. Because there's always gonna be a reason not to. Speaker 0 01:03:21 I I, I just love, you know why I love having a podcast? Because you al you called it out at the very beginning. You were like, somebody's gonna call me out. I'm gonna piss somebody off. This is, somebody's gonna be contrarian to this. And you're right, that just in the last interview that I did, Teddy Florence was talking about flow. Just finding flow, leaning into what he loved, leaning into what excites him. And that is a popular mode of going these days. Yeah, absolutely. And I love that you are encouraging the opposite direction. Go towards the things that you ha have little experience of that make you uncomfortable, that are not the practical, obvious choice for you. Right. Um, and there is validity there. So much validity there. So thank you. Thank you for sharing that. That's really, really important. Speaker 2 01:04:04 It's my pleasure. I I believe in it strongly. You know, you, you are only as good as your weakest parts. Speaker 0 01:04:12 O damnit. It's true. Especially in dance. Yeah. Um, yeah. Speaker 2 01:04:18 And even Speaker 0 01:04:18 The, the, the strong parts can throw you off. Oh sure. Who officially, if those, if those weak bits aren't prepared to help support, um, I, I, I'm very much in favor of doing the work all the time. I know that it looks different, um, from place to place. I loved the way it looked and felt at edge. And I love the thought of there maybe being a 2.0 version. Um, and that there will be a time for that and know that you have the support of me, the individual, but also me, the village that's listening to this episode. Thanks. Uh, in, in finding out what that is. I think it's a fascinating idea. I know it can happen because it has once already you have evidence. Um, and I, I, I agree that there has been a really resounding change in the dance education space. Um, but I also know that it is a space that is evergreen. Cuz there, there will always be dance. So there must always be dance education and Absolutely. We're absolutely, we're doing our very best to do it the way <laugh>, that's the most supportive. Speaker 2 01:05:26 And you know, I will say this, dancers always get it done in every way, shape and form, you know, on as sometimes that's why people on sets take advantage of dancers or throw impossible things at you. Like it's Speaker 0 01:05:48 Because at the end of the day, we wind up getting it Speaker 2 01:05:51 The day we'll get it done. So all of these ideas I'm spouting you could do none of them and still succeed. Speaker 0 01:06:02 Totally. Speaker 2 01:06:02 But, but I'm like, don't be a half circle. Well, half-assed. You know what I mean? Do more find, find things that you don't really new know you could do. Ideas, people, anything, food. It just don't go, don't drive to the store the same way every day. You know? Go. We we're creatures of habit. Speaker 0 01:06:29 Yeah. Speaker 2 01:06:30 Stop. Stop all your habits and actually make choices. Speaker 0 01:06:35 Full be ass. Be present. Full ass choices. Yeah. Speaker 2 01:06:39 Full ass. What? The whole thing. Whole enchilada. Speaker 0 01:06:43 I love this concept of fullness period. Because it includes the full spectrum of life and it won't all be polish and it won't all be perfect. It will be grubby. It will be smelly. And that, especially as an artist's job to experience the full spectrum so that we can portray the full spectrum. Yes. Yes. And I think, yeah, if for no other reason, that's why you should have the full ass experience. Sure. Speaker 2 01:07:10 Absolutely. Learn all the rules so you can choose to break them. So you just don't break them by accident. Speaker 0 01:07:16 You're in the control center of breaking the rules. Yes, Speaker 2 01:07:19 You are. This is, this is what you have to offer. Is it where it should be? You know, are you that little box of crayons? Speaker 0 01:07:29 Be the full box 64. With a sharpener. Speaker 2 01:07:32 With the sharpener. And, and remember that you might be the flesh tone or the Speaker 0 01:07:38 Per stop it. Wait, Speaker 2 01:07:40 Wait, wait, wait, wait. You might be one of those. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, they all get used when they need that periwinkle. You're like, per I'm here. I mean the, the black one might be shorter, the red one or, but cause they get used more often. But it's like me, you know, it's not like every show you see has a silver fox in it. Speaker 0 01:08:03 You are a periwinkle Speaker 2 01:08:05 Bill. I, I have a periwinkle. And so you are. And so when they need periwinkle, I'm like, I'm here. I'm Speaker 0 01:08:13 Peri wink. You're the only one in the box. I love that. Speaker 2 01:08:16 At the only Yeah. You know this so be don't worry which crayon you are. Just be ready. Be sharp. Speaker 0 01:08:24 There it is. I'm closing it out on that note. <laugh> be re you. Ready? Be sharp. Be Periwinkle with Bill Pruett. Thank you so much, bill. I my pleasure. Admire the shit out of you and, and what you have done for myself and for this whole entire community. I love you so much Speaker 2 01:08:39 Comes right back to you. Love you too. Speaker 0 01:08:41 Thank you. I'll talk to you soon. Speaker 2 01:08:43 Bye. Speaker 0 01:08:48 Thank you so very much for listening my friend. I really love Bill period. I especially love this argument for going against the flow, leaning away from the things that you maybe are already strong and comfortable with in terms of training and going towards things that you are less comfortable in, have less experience with and maybe even have less, less interest. Interesting. Um, but if they're good r and d, good research and development for your body. Dig into it. Diversify your training, schedule that stuff out and stick to the schedule. I think this is such great advice. Um, I, I really love thinking of adding non exclamatory sentences to your dancing. Not everything has to be a, a surprise or a shout. I super love this t-shirt analogy. Uh, there is no way that you can be the t-shirt that everybody wears every day. There's just no way. Speaker 0 01:09:48 Um, but <laugh>, you can be the box of crayons with 62 colors and a sharpener. So get out there, be colorful, stay sharp, and of course keep it very funky. I'll talk to you soon. This podcast was produced by me with the help of many music by Max Winnie Logo and brand design by Bree reets. And big thanks to Riley Higgins, our executive assistant and editor. Also massive thanks to you, the mover who is no stranger to taking action. So go take action. I will not, cannot stop you from downloading episodes or leaving a review and a rating. I will not ban you from my online store for spending your hard earned money on the cool merch and awesome programs that await you there. I will 100% not stop you from visiting words that move me.com. If you wanna talk with me, work with me and make moves with the rest of the words that move me community. Oh, and also I will not stop you from visiting the dana wilson.com if you're curious about all the things that I do that are not words that move me related. Alright, my friend, keep it funky. I'll talk to you.

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