281. DANCE + DANI VITALE

[00:00:00] Speaker A: I think it's so interesting because I've done two tours this year, and then a couple those couple movies and TV shows, and it's so funny. Like, how different. [00:00:07] Speaker B: Dani, it's only September. I know. Y', all. Y', all, did you hear what just happened? [00:00:17] Speaker A: Hello. [00:00:17] Speaker B: Hello. Dana here. Welcome to Dance Plus. I am jacked, you guys. My guest today is Danny Vitale. She is hands down, one of the workingest choreographers of this immediate time. But maybe our time, only time will tell. She is young, and she is rapidly ascending my list of favorite people to work for. So light, so bright, so thoughtful, so fun. I'm so excited to share this conversation with Dani. But first, we do wins here on the podcast, and today I am celebrating. Today I am celebrating being a veil checked for what could be a really, really cool thing. So I'm celebrating that I'm close enough to be on the avails list. That's a win. Actually doing this gig would be like, shut it all the way down. Like, stupid, stupid, stupid celebration. Like, I might actually invite all of you to a. If it happens. That's what's going well for me. How about you? What are you on a veil for? Congrats. Great job. Proud of you. So glad that you're winning. Keep winning. Okay, let's do it. Danny Vitali and I should be separated at all times. There's no reason why we need to be seated this close together. It's a riot. You guys. Like, such a good time. But also, we're digging into some important stuff, like the great dancing that you don't know that she's done. Like, the choreography that you don't know that she's done. Like, why she has a hard time being celebrated and all of her delightful, neurodivergent quirks that you don't know about yet, but you're about to. My friends, this is the one and only Danny Vitale. That doesn't make sense to you yet, but it will. Welcome to the podcast, everybody. This is Danny Vitale. I'm so glad you're here. Cheers. Cheers. This is not whole milk, by the way. [00:02:42] Speaker A: This is whole something else. Yeah. [00:02:48] Speaker B: I have been dying to sip on a chilled wine and talk shop with you. [00:02:53] Speaker A: Yes. [00:02:53] Speaker B: Welcome to my living room. This is my bookshelf. Thanks for having me over there. Hey, Riz just went to her room because she cannot be trusted. [00:02:59] Speaker A: No. [00:03:00] Speaker B: Between. [00:03:01] Speaker A: Oh, is it dinner too late? [00:03:03] Speaker B: Yeah, it's dinner time. [00:03:04] Speaker A: She's gonna get hangry. [00:03:05] Speaker B: Okay, so here's how the podcast starts. Respond. You gotta Respond. Welcome to the podcast. [00:03:13] Speaker A: Thank you so much. [00:03:15] Speaker B: Yes. Okay. You've got to introduce yourself. It's what all my guests do on the podcast. Tell us anything you would like us to know about you, and then I'll tell them all the things that we don't want you to know about you. [00:03:26] Speaker A: My name is Danny Vitale. I'm five, six. [00:03:31] Speaker B: Totally. [00:03:32] Speaker A: I can skateboard and roller skin. No, I can't. [00:03:35] Speaker B: Oh, I got so excited. [00:03:37] Speaker A: I'm from Cleveland, Ohio. Okay, cool. I've been in L. A. For almost 20 years now. Yep. Which is weird to say when you. When you're out here longer than you were home. Yeah. In your home state. [00:03:49] Speaker B: Yeah, totally. It's home now. [00:03:51] Speaker A: I was. I am a dancer, but I danced a lot. And then I became a choreographer and creative director and movement coach and director and, you know, producer. All. All the stuff that we do. [00:04:01] Speaker B: Wear a lot of hats. [00:04:02] Speaker A: Yeah. Wearing a lot of hats. [00:04:04] Speaker B: Yeah. I'm drawn to you for this reason. [00:04:05] Speaker A: And I love just creating and working with talented people and I love playing video games. Fortnite. Yeah, Fortnite. I love Fortnite. And I don't know, I think. [00:04:17] Speaker B: Okay, I love this. And this is a great jumping off point because you led with dancer or did you lead with farts? Video games? No, I live with farts. You followed up. [00:04:25] Speaker A: A lot of stuff gives me gas. Yeah. [00:04:26] Speaker B: Okay. I. Because we kind of grew up, I think I'm. I know I'm older than you, but we grew up in a similar time. Dance wise work was aplenty. You and I overlapped only a handful of times, but I think I can speak for us both. [00:04:41] Speaker A: I could name rapid fire. [00:04:44] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:04:45] Speaker A: The overlapping. When we did overlap, it was so iconic and epic. No, you go, okay, well, fine. [00:04:51] Speaker B: I'm less good with memory and stuff, but I do remember, you know that feeling because you're professional, that you're like, I am about to get the wrong kind of attention because I can't stop giggling. [00:05:05] Speaker A: Yeah. Every Manny and Brooklyn, I should move [00:05:07] Speaker B: myself away from this person. And that's you. That person is you on the job. And. And. [00:05:14] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:05:14] Speaker B: Yeah. And at audition now I've now had auditions. Also, I've now had the pleasure of working for you. Yeah. In which case I'm less frightened of getting in trouble. But I. [00:05:24] Speaker A: But there is some of that imposter syndrome where I'm like, we're going to get. [00:05:27] Speaker B: We're going to get in trouble. [00:05:28] Speaker A: So he's getting someone's post. Yeah. [00:05:30] Speaker B: For having a good ass Time on set. Anyways, I really appreciate you for being as funny as you are good at what you do. [00:05:39] Speaker A: Thanks. [00:05:39] Speaker B: And those are few and far between. [00:05:41] Speaker A: But you know what? That's you too, though, you know, you and Jilly and Meg. Like, we'd like to have a good time and, like, not to be all sappy, but I think, like, growing up on a lot of those jobs with you three, whether you three were on them all together or assisting or dancing or leading the room, like, you were the ones that always had that humor. So it was like, oh, we can like, kind of all have fun, but then dial it in with when we have to dial it in. [00:06:04] Speaker B: I think we're. I think we're all people over product. Like, humanity first. I don't know if we're humor first, but I think we're humans first. [00:06:12] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:06:13] Speaker B: Yeah. And that leads to definitely more room for play and breath and laughter and memories. Memories. Great memories. Oh, that won't be funny to you guys. [00:06:24] Speaker A: Yeah. Tapping for Neo on a Disney special. [00:06:28] Speaker B: I don't remember that. [00:06:30] Speaker A: Maybe it was just Jilly. [00:06:31] Speaker B: I think it was just like, me, Jill, Martha fun, Dom Kelly fun. [00:06:36] Speaker A: It was a live performance that then turned into, like, a huge spectacle. [00:06:41] Speaker B: And you're tap dancing with some of the greatest on the planet. [00:06:43] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:06:44] Speaker B: I feel like a lot of the people that are moving to LA now or are learning about you now, are learning about you, the film choreographer now, because. Yeah, because you choreograph fucking feature films now. A lot of them. Four in one year. In this year, which is only nine months through. Yeah, eight months through, technically. So, yeah, we're gonna unpack that in just a second. But I don't think a lot of people know about the dance work that you have done. And I would like to celebrate you and yourself and the dance work that we have. Yeah. [00:07:12] Speaker A: Like. Yes. [00:07:13] Speaker B: Okay, so that sounds insane. What are the gigs that you are most proud of, dance wise? [00:07:20] Speaker A: I think I love chaos. I thrive in chaos. But I do love to bitch and moan. Yeah. But, like, I do it in like a. Like this fucking socks. But, like, we're gonna get through it. [00:07:31] Speaker B: I hear that. I've seen that. I felt that. [00:07:32] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:07:33] Speaker B: Okay. [00:07:33] Speaker A: You know, and I kind of. The ones that are. That really hold true or like, that are like, here are the ones that really were the most painful to get through. But then, like, we had the best time. Yeah. Going. [00:07:48] Speaker B: It's like summer camp. A gig is camp. [00:07:52] Speaker A: It's full camp. [00:07:52] Speaker B: It's camp. [00:07:53] Speaker A: It's like hazing with being Away from your family, with challenges with. And everything is always like new. You're like in a random ass place with some random ass food and random you've never met. [00:08:07] Speaker B: It's six in the morning, you're on top, dropping everywhere. Staples center parking lot. Your music changes fold and somebody is spray painting your ass cheeks blue. [00:08:17] Speaker A: And then the music changes. Then all of a sudden, like, and [00:08:19] Speaker B: now you have to do it in a heel. [00:08:21] Speaker A: And then the one thing we thought we were doing, they were like, wait, when were we ever doing that? And you're like, oh. So I think like those ones are the most. Okay. [00:08:30] Speaker B: Chaos. [00:08:31] Speaker A: Chaos. I love it. Because then the end product, we have so little control of the end product. And I've had to relinquish that because I used to be like, but this is how you should shoot it and this is how you should edit it and this is how it should be colored and this is how it should flow. And. And you kind of have to let the other departments do their thing too. [00:08:50] Speaker B: Yeah, you literally do. You literally do. [00:08:53] Speaker A: Yeah. And nine times out of seven, times out of 10, it's [00:09:00] Speaker B: seven times out of 10, it's not what you thought it could be. [00:09:04] Speaker A: Yes. Sometimes I'm surprised, like, for better or for worse, like, sometimes I'm like, oh, wow, really cool. Yeah. Or I'm like, okay, yeah, let's talk about that ratio. [00:09:13] Speaker B: How often are you proud of the work versus a little bit let down. [00:09:18] Speaker A: I'm really exercising this thing of speaking up more during pre production and not afraid. Hate is a wrong word. But I'm now less afraid of people disliking me during the pre production process. Because I really want to make sure the craft or the job that I was given to deliver is as unharmed as possible. If that makes sense. [00:09:45] Speaker B: Like, give yourself a real good chance at doing a great job. [00:09:48] Speaker A: Like, listen, I need three rehearsal days. I can't just do one. Do I want five? Do I want seven? Of course. Budget time, whatever. I need three. But a lot of the time in my earlier days of choreographing. Yeah, you know what? Fuck it, I'll just do one. No, I don't need to rehearse. And I would just kind of do that. And now I'm holding back ground. More of like, listen, because I can say on this project, this project, this and this project, I had this, this and this. [00:10:16] Speaker B: Right. [00:10:16] Speaker A: If you want this result, this is what I need to make that happen. [00:10:19] Speaker B: So there's more precedent. You have like something to stand on. [00:10:22] Speaker A: Exactly. Yeah. So which Is before, it's hard to speak on something even if you know what the right answer is, because as dancers and choreographers, we always kind of know. [00:10:30] Speaker B: Yeah. We have a sense, like after having done it several times. Can we backtrack on likability, though? [00:10:36] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. And I think like, as the choreographer and. And is. It comes from being a dancer, though. [00:10:41] Speaker B: Yeah. You know, you want to be liked and you're a yes person and you're pleased culturally, it is like dance culture to please and be right. [00:10:49] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:10:49] Speaker B: For the person in charge. [00:10:51] Speaker A: Yes. And so I've always like bent and. And like always was just, you know, being malleable. And then after, I'm like, why isn't [00:11:01] Speaker B: anyone else getting to the final product? No, not always. I mean, sometimes it's cool to say yes, but always you must serve the project. [00:11:09] Speaker A: The only thing I never bent on were dancer rates. Dancer conditions. Appreciate you, you know, always like, I. There's so many jobs that dancers have no idea where. I like took half the rate of theirs or used most of my rate to compensate for the lack of a dancer rate. And like that the only. That was the only thing I promised myself when I started choreographing, you know, doing dancers alliance for so long as a dancer, I'm like, I know the money and opportunities will still come for me as a choreographer, but once you lose the support as a. From dancers being one, like, you can't gain that back. And I'm like, why would I be in this position and not do this? So like my one thing that I never bent on, I'll bend on creative and time and pre production all, all day. But like a chair and water and a rate and paid in a timely way. That's where I draw the line. [00:12:01] Speaker B: No flex on that. [00:12:02] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:12:02] Speaker B: Love you for that. [00:12:03] Speaker A: Like, I will. I will go to. [00:12:05] Speaker B: I will. [00:12:06] Speaker A: I will ruin my relationship to go to bat with production for dancers where, like, yeah, that would never happen when I was a dancer. We'd be like left out to cold. And when you see your choreographer just like, oh, yeah. [00:12:20] Speaker B: I think what you're like, I have a deep belief and I think you and I both share this based on what you just said, is that when dancers do well, so do choreographers. [00:12:30] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:12:30] Speaker B: And when. And when choreographers do well, so should dancers. [00:12:34] Speaker A: Yes. [00:12:34] Speaker B: And. And I do, I think. I don't know why, but I've wound up talking a lot about genrefication of dance on the podcast lately and how I understand that it's useful, but sometimes it bothers Me to really categorize movement. [00:12:49] Speaker A: Yeah. So do you hate when you're like teaching a masterclass or something or a thing. And they're like, well, what are you teaching? [00:12:54] Speaker B: You're like, yeah, I'm going to teach zero to hero in which there is a locking section. Yeah. Like, that's what I'm. [00:13:03] Speaker A: Yeah, I'm going to teach ballet for the first half. Then, like, we're going to do jazz. [00:13:09] Speaker B: Jazz focused across the floor. But the combo itself is. [00:13:13] Speaker A: Yes. But you. [00:13:14] Speaker B: You can wear shoes. [00:13:14] Speaker A: You can also wear heels, but you can also go barefoot. [00:13:17] Speaker B: Totally. [00:13:17] Speaker A: And the song is Max Richter. And you're like, I don't know what to tell you. [00:13:21] Speaker B: I don't know what to tell. So. Yes, that comes up a lot. The genre. The genre of occasion. Of that. And I think we've kind of borrowed that when we think about choreographer. Dancer. Yeah, we're dance team. [00:13:34] Speaker A: Yes. [00:13:35] Speaker B: There is choreography team, but there is dance team. And choreography team is a part of dance team and movement. Right. Like the. The project calls for movement. Dancers and choreographers do that. [00:13:45] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:13:46] Speaker B: Choreographers don't do that. Dancers don't do that. Like, together, we team movement do that. And I love thinking of it holistically like that. And. And I. It's unfortunate that you would have to sacrifice your rate to be sure that dancers have it. But of course, we don't live in a dream world where there's infinite funds for the arts and for d dance in. In entertainment. But yeah, that's. [00:14:09] Speaker A: Yeah. Or if there's no funds, I'm like, no one's back handspringing. No one's totally doing the most. We are going to act our wage. [00:14:16] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:14:17] Speaker A: And if we're making. If you guys are making this, then we are going to perform as that. We're not going to do 12 numbers on tour. We're going to do six. [00:14:25] Speaker B: Right. [00:14:25] Speaker A: So let's not. And moan about it. What it could be, what it should be. Let's actually just arise to where it is. [00:14:31] Speaker B: And managing those expectations did one of the many jobs, of course, choreographer that they don't teach. [00:14:36] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:14:36] Speaker B: Because dance class, the. [00:14:38] Speaker A: The dancer brain and soul and ego, you know, those they get. They turn into like these little monsters sometimes. And you have to. [00:14:45] Speaker B: Because we're humans. [00:14:46] Speaker A: Yes. [00:14:47] Speaker B: Yes. [00:14:47] Speaker A: And you have to be like, okay, well, you agreed to do this under the pretenses. It didn't change. [00:14:53] Speaker B: That's important. [00:14:53] Speaker A: But I'm. I'm here to take care of you. You. Like, if you're not paid within 30 I'll pay you out of my pocket. I'll figure that out. But let's not, like, burn the building down while we're trying to figure it out. I think that's the hard. [00:15:07] Speaker B: Okay, so we're talking, like, we're talking etiquette. [00:15:11] Speaker A: Let's just spiral into etiquette. [00:15:13] Speaker B: What we should and should not do. [00:15:15] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:15:15] Speaker B: What are some of the things that you wish more dancers did more often? [00:15:19] Speaker A: I think just take a breath, take a beat. But I know it's hard because we, like, come up with a chip on our shoulder. [00:15:28] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:15:29] Speaker A: You know, and we've been in those rooms where I think we can be, like, hyper vigilant of, like, they're gonna fuck us. They're about to fuck us. [00:15:37] Speaker B: You come in with armor on in [00:15:39] Speaker A: the defensive position, and I can't say, like, dancers trust your choreographers because, I mean, now more than ever, like, I think it's maybe scarier or harder. [00:15:48] Speaker B: I've heard some horror stories, and I know that there are tropes of the evil choreographer. Like, I actually was so heartbroken when I saw the movie Sing. It's about all those animals singing, and they're doing, like, a, like, Like a American Idol type show. [00:16:06] Speaker A: Yes. [00:16:07] Speaker B: And the choreographer is the villain of that movie. Yeah, Yeah, I know that comes from somewhere because it's a trope. [00:16:14] Speaker A: Yes. [00:16:14] Speaker B: Like, person at the front of the room with a stick and slapping you and, like, shouting, 5678. [00:16:18] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:16:19] Speaker B: That's a trope for a reason. Like, I'm not saying nobody's ever done that, but we have evolved so much, y'. All. We know better, and most of us do better. Most of us. [00:16:30] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:16:31] Speaker B: But this is a squeaky wheel gets the grease situation. But then people only hear about stories. [00:16:37] Speaker A: Nobody's, no one's talking about how, how [00:16:40] Speaker B: lovely that set was. It was just a non issue. So we don't talk about it. [00:16:43] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:16:44] Speaker B: We wind up talking about choreographers that are problematic because there's a problem. And I do think we should be addressing the problem. [00:16:49] Speaker A: Taking advantage. Advantage of the room is good, I think, like, sometimes, like, I, I know I can run a job, but I, I, I will say that with utmost confidence. I can I run a room with dancers and a job in that degree, like, impeccably well. But then you do find the ones that like to take advantage of it. [00:17:10] Speaker B: Give me an example without naming names. [00:17:12] Speaker A: Coming late. [00:17:13] Speaker B: Oh, I see. [00:17:14] Speaker A: Okay. Coming on time. [00:17:15] Speaker B: Okay. Okay. [00:17:16] Speaker A: Being on your phone, in the corner, little things where it's like, I'M not saying, I, I, I, I forget that those are things that I have to say where I'm like, hey, while you're on the clock and we're in this room and I, I'm just going over this one section really quick or answering these questions, don't go right in my eyeline and go on your phone. Yeah. [00:17:36] Speaker B: I'm going to go ahead and say that that doesn't have anything to do with you and the way you're running the room. That sounds like that has to do with them and their training. [00:17:43] Speaker A: Totally of. But then you're like, okay, I'm going to say something. [00:17:47] Speaker B: Right. [00:17:48] Speaker A: Yo, will the attitude change? Will the mood change? [00:17:52] Speaker B: Yes. [00:17:52] Speaker A: Is it going to take an out of. You know what I mean? Then you get. [00:17:54] Speaker B: Or maybe, I don't know, maybe not. Yeah, you did have. We had a good teachable moment on this Nancy Myers film that you hired me for. [00:18:01] Speaker A: So many so great moments. Yeah. [00:18:03] Speaker B: So many teachable moments. One of my favorite though was a dancer was running late and you didn't call them out in front of the entire group. You called them in during lunch and you had a seat and were having a casual conversation and you were like, what do you think you should do if you're running late? And Danny, you looked at me and you were like, dana, what should this person do if they're running late? And I was like, don't be late or something. I don't remember what I said. [00:18:34] Speaker A: I was like, totally. [00:18:35] Speaker B: But do you remember what I did say? [00:18:37] Speaker A: I don't remember. You said, just don't ever be late. And then you did say like, call your. [00:18:43] Speaker B: Oh, I said, I was like, call production. [00:18:45] Speaker A: Yeah, immediately. [00:18:46] Speaker B: Whatever the number is on the call sheet, you call them and let them know that you're in. [00:18:50] Speaker A: No, you said call production. And then, and then this dancer said, I, I don't have, I don't have anyone's number. And we said, it is a 200 million dollar plus Warner Brothers production. You are being sent a call sheet with numerous numbers and arrows as to [00:19:08] Speaker B: call, blah, blah, blah, if you're having trouble. Yeah. On the day. [00:19:11] Speaker A: That was the excuse. Which it was like a wild. [00:19:13] Speaker B: That was why that was a. Yeah, you kind of shot yourself in the foot there with that one. But what you that the answer you were looking for was a different answer. And I actually agree with you. I, because of what I just said. How dance teams should be tight. [00:19:27] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:19:28] Speaker B: As much as it would pain me to call Mandy Moore and tell her I'm running late I had acid reflexes. [00:19:39] Speaker A: I would move home to Ohio. [00:19:40] Speaker B: I would quit. [00:19:42] Speaker A: Yeah, I'd move home to Ohio. [00:19:44] Speaker B: But dance team should know. Yeah, like, production team definitely should know. I would answer that question now. The assistant or, you know, the second in charge to the choreographer needs to know, because you shouldn't be surprised in the moment when the dancer is missing. If production happened to forget to tell you. [00:20:05] Speaker A: Exactly. [00:20:06] Speaker B: Dance team. It's kind of like that. The bullseye, right? Like if. If you are the center of the bullseye of your world and the next hero is the assistant choreographer. Tell the assistant choreographer. Assistant choreographer decides. Okay, Choreo team. Danny doesn't have bandwidth to hear this right now. I decide to go to this person, but you kind of bubble out from that bullseye of need to know. I'm not going to text Nancy Myers the furthest out of. [00:20:31] Speaker A: But you're right, I think also on that dancers, which I started to learn as I started to assist and be in more, you know, rooms at different times rather than just rehearsal and shoot day. [00:20:41] Speaker B: You. [00:20:41] Speaker A: You kind of are pigeonholed or you're like a racehorse with the blinders on not knowing how much you impact. It's like such an ecosystem. So totally said if a set, you know, said dancer is late, maybe wardrobe would have started on another thing. Maybe they would have picked. They would have started with another shot that day. Like, it's not like you're gonna just be executed once you walk into set. Like, you know, help us strategize by [00:21:08] Speaker B: being honest and letting the right people know what's going on. [00:21:10] Speaker A: So I. I. Yeah, I cared about that kid, and I was like, let's have a teachable moment. Like, thank God today wasn't dire or detrimental. And we're behind, and we're all good. And we're all. [00:21:21] Speaker B: I mean, we were behind, but yeah, [00:21:24] Speaker A: you know, we're sitting there eating carne asada for lunch at. In Santa Monica. [00:21:28] Speaker B: It was amazing. This gig was the gift that kept giving. [00:21:30] Speaker A: It was amazing. But I was like, let's have like. I was like, I want to teach this kid. And, like, how can I teach this kid? [00:21:35] Speaker B: Because they just straight up didn't tell anyone. [00:21:37] Speaker A: No. [00:21:38] Speaker B: And how late were they? [00:21:40] Speaker A: Like, pretty late. I think like an hour. Like, it was, like, pretty late where [00:21:45] Speaker B: enough late to make. [00:21:46] Speaker A: Remember, I was worried. I was actually worried. Yeah. [00:21:48] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:21:49] Speaker A: Did he get in an accident? Did something happen? You know? Yeah. The humanity at all. You're like, the job. Are you okay? [00:21:56] Speaker B: Is this person okay? [00:21:57] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. Is your car stuck in your parking garage. Like, I don't know. Weird shit happens. Yeah. But I think, like, the dancer. The dancer in me has never left. It will never leave. And I like to run my rooms and jobs from that perspective, like, instilling the things I love, not instilling things I didn't love. And, you know, taking from so many different rooms. Mandy, hi hat. Nick and R.J. rosaro. Rita and Raj, Brooke Lipton, Brian. You know, you just take from so Ebony, Tanisha. It's just. And they're all so different, and I kind of, like, put them into a big salad bowl and I just kind of, like, cool. You know, I'm like, oh, it's so funny. [00:22:42] Speaker B: That is the way I feel about dance. Yeah. Like, a little bit of that, a little bit of this, a little bit of that. Throw it in a bowl, mix it up. It's a chop salad. [00:22:49] Speaker A: It's a chopped salad. It's like that lovely pitfire chop salad. [00:22:52] Speaker B: I miss that. [00:22:54] Speaker A: I know what the pro belongs. [00:22:55] Speaker B: I also miss their farmer's market plate. They did a roasted vegetable farmer market on that little silver in the bed in the back in the day with the broccoli. I haven't been there in a while, to be honest. I had a very disappointing bratwurst from there once. It was even Oktoberfest. They were like, come here for October Fest. And I was like, oh, my God, I'm getting abroad. It was so bad. [00:23:14] Speaker A: That's like people going to, like, a French restaurant. They're like, I hated their carbonara. You're like, why would you get that there? It's called pitfire pizza. Why are you getting bratwurst? [00:23:25] Speaker B: That's true. Thank you for the call Out. Thank you for the call. It was October. [00:23:28] Speaker A: You're getting sushi. [00:23:31] Speaker B: You're right. That's on me. You're right. That's on me. You're right. That's on me. [00:23:35] Speaker A: Just because it's October. [00:23:36] Speaker B: If we were going to eat after this, we would go to Pitfire and get a pizza, and it would be awesome. [00:23:40] Speaker A: Yes. [00:23:41] Speaker B: Well, maybe it would. I don't know. [00:23:42] Speaker A: It's. It would be good. It would be good. The sangria and the pizza and the chopped salad. Remember those back in the day? [00:23:48] Speaker B: I do. Okay. Show, like, back on track with, like, the questions sort of. [00:23:52] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. [00:23:54] Speaker B: I want to talk about. Can I just give you some flowers really quick, please? [00:23:58] Speaker A: I'd love the flowers. [00:23:59] Speaker B: Working. Being a choreographer working on a film is challenging because not every film requires a choreographer. Being a choreographer of a Film is hard. Being a choreographer of a non musical might even be harder because on a musical the teams are in place that know musicals. [00:24:20] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:24:21] Speaker B: And the way that you operated on this film that, that you just hired me for, that was super special. Wasn't a musical. But we love Nancy Myers. [00:24:31] Speaker A: We fucking love Nancy Myers. [00:24:32] Speaker B: We fucking love Nancy Myers for seeing the value in dancers outside of the spectacle of unison choreography and eight counts. She sees people who can do tasks repeatedly to an insane degree of detail consistently. She sees a group of people who can take notes quickly. She sees a group of people that can embody different physicalities and not look completely weirdly contorted and forced. [00:24:55] Speaker A: Y. [00:24:57] Speaker B: She values dancers and therefore hired a choreographer and hired what, 30 dancers? Something like that. Five. [00:25:05] Speaker A: How many were there of you? [00:25:07] Speaker B: 20 something. [00:25:08] Speaker A: Was it 20? Oh, there was like 13. [00:25:10] Speaker B: Oh, okay. [00:25:10] Speaker A: Plus five. [00:25:11] Speaker B: And then the six bellman friends. [00:25:13] Speaker A: Yeah. So yeah, like 20 something. Okay. Yeah. [00:25:15] Speaker B: Hired this number of people for a non musical movie that definitely had like a few dance, capital D dance moments, but for the most part we're not dancing. [00:25:28] Speaker A: Yeah. Which means. But where the dancers were hired for, there wasn't. [00:25:31] Speaker B: There wasn't dancing. What the actors were hired for, there was dancing. [00:25:34] Speaker A: Yes. So this is. [00:25:35] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, I would love to hear. Well, the flowers come in. The fact that that project required stamina, patience, and being assertive in moments. Well, you had to be patient the whole time. 100% of the time you had to be patient, but you had to be assertive in moments and in ways that didn't derail the film, which is not about dance at all. And I really love the way that you championed dancers without having to make it about dance. And always felt protected and spoken for. And I feel like it's easy to say the dancers need water when we're doing 96,000 from in the Heights. And it's like, about dance. But you were really good at advocating for us without making it a weird spectacle, that we're kind of glorified extras, more or less. But I felt very well handled and I really. I'm a very patient person. And I looked at you and I was like, dang, she really is built for this. I think also your sense of humor helped you to laugh off things that other people. That would have nailed the coffin for other people. [00:26:45] Speaker A: Yes. [00:26:46] Speaker B: It would have been the final straw for someone. [00:26:49] Speaker A: Yes. That [00:26:52] Speaker B: I was hired for one day and on the fifth day I really thought that was my last day. And then I was called in for one more. Like people would have that might have been the final straw. And look at you right now. You, like, you are giggling. You are laughing that off, which to me is like. Like Tai chi technique of letting shit [00:27:09] Speaker A: roll off of you and move. [00:27:12] Speaker B: And it had to be you on that gig because it required so much patience, so much stamina. Because how long, like, what was your first day of work on that project? [00:27:23] Speaker A: March. Yeah. [00:27:25] Speaker B: And today and your last day? Well, last week, right, we had to cancel an episode because you got called back in even after you got wrapped. Like, you got knocked out. They said, that's a wrap on Danny. And then I got the next. Supposed to have the podcast the next [00:27:39] Speaker A: three days, and everyone was like, what are you doing? [00:27:42] Speaker B: And I'm like, hey, but listen, if there is need and if there is budget, bring the choreographer back after you've clapped him out. I'm not mad at you for saying, okay, now you're really, really done. And being wrong about that. [00:27:59] Speaker A: Like, maybe that person today. [00:28:00] Speaker B: Actually, yeah, I'm not mad at that at all. But it does require a certain personality. [00:28:07] Speaker A: Those jobs are harder than the musicals. [00:28:10] Speaker B: I think so. Like, I think so. Because with the musicals, you have. [00:28:14] Speaker A: You have the support, you have the understanding, you have a plan. You have a plan and people honor the plan. [00:28:19] Speaker B: Because there are 75 people sweating and busting their ass. [00:28:22] Speaker A: Producers and people. Yeah, of course there's the difficulty that comes with that. [00:28:26] Speaker B: Yeah, totally. [00:28:27] Speaker A: But, like, at least I think the hardest part about doing a lot of the jobs I do is getting some of the people in production or whatever. Maybe it's time or money or anything of to get it done. It's like, it's educating them as to what it takes to get it done. And that is the heart. That is where I spend the most time, the most energy, the most. The most emails, the most calls. Like, that's where all the time is spent is educating and explaining. Well, for this, it's. It's going to take this. And this is why it costs this, because this takes this and it. And it's. I have I. The amount of charts and essays and almost pit every job I have to almost pitch why an assistant is necessary. And it's not an assistant that just gets coffee. Yeah. For a duet with. Between a male and a female. Right. And I'm not talking specifically this Nancy film. That was a rare gem where it was like, what do you need? [00:29:30] Speaker B: We'll give it to you. [00:29:31] Speaker A: We'll give it to you. We respect it. We'll actually give you more time. [00:29:33] Speaker B: It wasn't to fight. It wasn't an ask. [00:29:35] Speaker A: And it was. I felt spoiled because it was. I had everything I need. Everything was, yes, yes. And it was amazing. But a lot of the other stuff I do. I do find myself on, I think a lot of projects where people have never worked with a choreographer in that instance or so it's education. [00:29:53] Speaker B: So you have to be. [00:29:54] Speaker A: I feel like I'm constantly educating. Yeah. So when people ask me, what are my dream. What's my dream job? I'm like, whatever. I actually don't care about the end product. Just like, whatever. I could just walk into production and they're like, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. And I don't have to. [00:30:06] Speaker B: It's one where you're not having to ask for things. It's one where you're not having to educate. It's one where people know what to expect. [00:30:12] Speaker A: Working with actors and musicians. Give me the craziest, bougiest diva est, Biggest assholes. Fucking. It's nothing to me. But give me the producer or the PM or the TM that questions me is like, that's where. Those are my nightmares. [00:30:28] Speaker B: That's tough for you. [00:30:29] Speaker A: It's tough. [00:30:30] Speaker B: Cool. That's good to know. [00:30:32] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:30:32] Speaker B: Okay. What I'm hearing and what I know to be true is that there are so many jobs of a choreographer that aren't making eight counts. There's a lot. And so what I'm curious to hear from you because you've had a lot of practice doing this this year. [00:30:46] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:30:46] Speaker B: Is like, what are your biggest lessons learned? What were the biggest hurdles for you? How. Oof. You know? [00:30:55] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:30:56] Speaker B: Because. Because I love. You're fucking young. You're a baby in your choreographer life. You're going to be doing this a long time, my friend. And I. And I know that your best work is ahead of you even. And that part is fucking cool. That's cool. [00:31:07] Speaker A: It's pretty cool. [00:31:08] Speaker B: That I also know to be true. And that's super flowers. [00:31:11] Speaker A: But I just like, thank you. [00:31:13] Speaker B: You're a learner. You're an adapter. You're also like a mingler, and you're in the mix. [00:31:18] Speaker A: You're like. [00:31:19] Speaker B: I do think, like, if I had [00:31:21] Speaker A: to go work at a restaurant right now, I'd be like, all right, let's go. [00:31:23] Speaker B: Yes. And I also think you're. What you said about yourself earlier, like, I'm. I like to. [00:31:29] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:31:29] Speaker B: But you are also in the arena. You are doing the work. [00:31:33] Speaker A: Yes. [00:31:34] Speaker B: And so when you bitch, I listen. Because I'm like, oh, wait, this person Knows the field. [00:31:38] Speaker A: I'm never, like, removed and don't know what's going on. Like, if I'm going to. It's coming from, like, knowledge. [00:31:45] Speaker B: Experience. [00:31:45] Speaker A: From experiences, literally in it with the person or with the dancer or with the artist, whatever it may be. Yes. Yeah. [00:31:51] Speaker B: Like, what would make you. Not over the things that happened in the. This last year's worth of you making movies? [00:31:57] Speaker A: I think it's so interesting because I've done two tours this year, and then a couple. Those Couple movies and TV shows. And it's so funny, like, how different. [00:32:05] Speaker B: Danny, it's only September. [00:32:06] Speaker A: I know. Y'. [00:32:08] Speaker B: All. Y'. All. Did you hear what just happened? I did a few tours. Two tours. Yeah. During the. How many films? Four. [00:32:16] Speaker A: Yeah. And. And two movies came out this year also. [00:32:21] Speaker B: So you're doing promo and you're doing two films come out. [00:32:24] Speaker A: I had Mother Mary and promo. Yeah. But. [00:32:26] Speaker B: Yeah, different. But that's fine. [00:32:27] Speaker A: I had Devil Verse, Prada, and Mother Mary come out. And then I did the Madison Beer tour and the Suki Suki Waterhouse tour. And then some of those images you [00:32:38] Speaker B: shared from Madison Beer was beautiful. [00:32:42] Speaker A: Thank you. I have been sitting on it because there's so many great photos. [00:32:46] Speaker B: Really nice. [00:32:47] Speaker A: And she understands the shape of the foot. [00:32:50] Speaker B: She. [00:32:50] Speaker A: The foot, the body. [00:32:52] Speaker B: Does she know, you know, what? [00:32:53] Speaker A: She has a. She's never danced or performed in a [00:32:56] Speaker B: Laduka, which is what she's wearing on the. That foot. [00:32:59] Speaker A: So that was my. Like, the last tour we did, she did barefoot and little, like, tennis shoes. Then the tour after that, she did combat boots and then this. When I started to see the stage design, I said, it's a Laduka. It's a Laduca. So we. [00:33:14] Speaker B: And it so was. You're right. There was nothing else. [00:33:16] Speaker A: She had a rehearsal on a freed boot, and she fell in love. I gave her. I ordered, like, two sizes, and, you know, one. The sizing is weird. Yeah. And to return it to Italy, I was like, fuck that. So I just kept them. And when rehearsals came, I was like, perfect, they're your size. So she wore the free boot, and you would have thought, like, she gained a superpower. So when she put those on, it was so sweet. And then she was like, I need these. And then, you know, I showed her the laducas, and so she had the duka. And, like, it was odd because she's so naturally talented and gifted in, like, her body awareness, but when she put on those shoes, it was like, a dancer. Yeah. Like, Sid Sharice, like, came in there and, and infused into those ankles. But no, she. She knows. [00:33:59] Speaker B: She understands the line. [00:34:00] Speaker A: Yeah, totally. Like, she knows what looks good. She's very. Like, if it feels weird, it's probably weird. Yeah, no, she's. Love that awareness. [00:34:07] Speaker B: Thank you. Yeah, amazing. [00:34:09] Speaker A: But there's so many good photos and videos from that tour and I've been struggling posting because I just. [00:34:15] Speaker B: Well, now I want to ask a whole separate question, which is like, how the did you do that? But let's go back to like, what would have made all of that less hard for you? [00:34:24] Speaker A: This is so funny, but like, I don't know if it's this, but tell me off also. You want what make it less hard? I think just people not being dumb, but I think like, [00:34:37] Speaker B: yeah, okay. [00:34:38] Speaker A: I think people just not being dumb [00:34:40] Speaker B: for you to not have to be educating all the time. [00:34:42] Speaker A: Yeah. I wish I could actually just do my job. I wish I could just do my job of making up the steps and creating the vision and executing the story. And listen, I'll even reach out a little bit wider than that as to quick change. You know, I'll reach out because obviously any. Anything you can include just makes the product better. But like having to be an AD or be a DP or be a camera operator or be a tour manager or be a production manager or be a creative designer or be a fucking content designer or that's where I'm just like, fuck, I wish some of these things just had a better structure. So I do try and help, especially with Madison and Suki, the tours I did. I. I've worked with them for many, like six years each now. [00:35:30] Speaker B: Wow. [00:35:31] Speaker A: So I do try and help them, like, hey, this is a great person. We should bring on next time. [00:35:35] Speaker B: Nice. [00:35:35] Speaker A: This is a really great, you know, obviously budget and this and that, but like trying to help them, like build their team a little bit more efficiently because, you know, I just hate when I see other people's money being wasted and time being wasted and it's sad. These girls put so much time and energy into this. [00:35:50] Speaker B: Yep, Yep. [00:35:51] Speaker A: And when you see like haphazard, not to be this girl, but like men just kind of like, whatever, she'll figure it out. It doesn't fucking matter. Dance is the last thing that like I have like one liners written down that things that like just production managers have said and it's just like, what? [00:36:07] Speaker B: Like what? [00:36:10] Speaker A: There's one where it was the dancers are the last thing that matter right now. And I said it's actually the only thing that matters right now we're talking about the stage and the safety of the stage. And because Madison is a dancer right now. You're talking about Madison right now when you're talking about dancers. So if we don't. [00:36:32] Speaker B: She's included in that mix. [00:36:33] Speaker A: Yeah, she is included. So when you say the dancers don't matter, you're saying Madison and dancers are [00:36:36] Speaker B: included when you talk about her. [00:36:37] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:36:37] Speaker B: Because somebody standing on the edge of that stage or over someone's going to [00:36:41] Speaker A: get on that list over here. [00:36:42] Speaker B: Oh. Oh. The idea that different lives have different value is crazy. [00:36:50] Speaker A: And on a zoom. And I'm like, oh, okay. And I love AI now because I record, you know, the zoom recording. And then I can, like, I've. I've gotten very. I've gotten very creative with, like, putting that back in an email of like, hey, per your note of no one matters, so let's just not even have rehearsal. Fuck it. Like, I've gotten. [00:37:17] Speaker B: Wow. [00:37:18] Speaker A: I've gotten spicy with it. Yeah. [00:37:20] Speaker B: Per your note of dancers are the last thing that matter right now. We're not gonna come to rehearsal. [00:37:26] Speaker A: Yeah. So fuck it. Why do we even need rehearsal then? Let's save the money. Let's just all go to Poland. [00:37:31] Speaker B: But that makes you look bad in the end. Because then the. [00:37:34] Speaker A: Totally. [00:37:34] Speaker B: Because then you don't. And then you don't. And then that is the problem. [00:37:37] Speaker A: Then it's when you want to die on a hill, you want to make a point. When you want to fit eight numbers in four days and you're given $3, you know? But people are going to go to the show and see, wow, the choreographer only did six numbers. They're not going to know. Oh, well, that's all her. And the dancers were paid for was six numbers. Like, so then you. So then you're, like, battling the public scrutiny of how do I make this a great show? [00:38:05] Speaker B: Can I tell you what? [00:38:06] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:38:06] Speaker B: Riley and I went and saw Harry Styles in Mexico City. When? Like, three weeks ago. [00:38:13] Speaker A: What? [00:38:14] Speaker B: And. And there are two dancers, and they dance on three. [00:38:20] Speaker A: Three or four numbers. [00:38:21] Speaker B: Three or four songs. And I would never in a million years say, well, no, I would never in a million years say out loud. They only danced on four because it felt huge. [00:38:34] Speaker A: Oh, sick. I did. [00:38:36] Speaker B: I did feel like I want more, but I had no idea it was only three. [00:38:40] Speaker A: Cool. [00:38:41] Speaker B: There was no. I had no sense of time during that show. I had no sense of expectation. They were always being, like, My expectations were always being rocked. And then. And then focused. [00:38:51] Speaker A: That's a good show. [00:38:52] Speaker B: It was a phenomenal show. Great job, Ryan Heffington. Because two dancers on three tracks went a long. [00:39:00] Speaker A: That's amazing way. Yeah, that. See, that is like. That's talent. Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:39:05] Speaker B: That's craftsmanship. And also managing expectations. Like, you have a person who was in a boy band and who is resistant to having a another boy band behind them. [00:39:17] Speaker A: It's managing their expectations constantly. You're right. And it's like, what is the talent's time? What is their schedule? What can they do? What is their bandwidth to learn stuff, to be included in things? And yeah, there's just so much more that goes into creating these things. [00:39:31] Speaker B: Yo, choreographers are expectation managers. That's what we are. [00:39:34] Speaker A: 100%. Like, why doesn't look like this? Well, this is what you gave me. You gave me a song that is R and B. So, no, it's not going to look like a rock show. What the are you talking about? You know, it's constantly like, are we on the same planet? And I think that's what's funny. You think you're all on the same project together, but, like, half the time everyone's making different things than you think you're making. And communication. [00:39:55] Speaker B: Communication. [00:39:56] Speaker A: Yeah. You, like, can't take it seriously or, like, you can't take it to heart. So you're just constantly having to sales pitch yourself, your process, your product until it's literally said and done. Yeah, yeah. Like, when I did Mother Mary, that was a process because it was like, I need dancers in la. I'm not against using dancers. I did use a lot of German dancers and they were amazing. Or European and UK and all this stuff. But for these specific scenes with Annie, I needed the most time. And for Annie, the most time was with her in New York. So I needed then dancers that were in the States to get her acclimated with dancers and being behind her and doing that. But to get the line producer to understand why that was important and why that was such an important thing. [00:40:45] Speaker B: And, you know, you had to justify the line item. [00:40:48] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:40:48] Speaker B: You had to be a salesperson and say, here's why you need the Mercedes and not the Ford Focus. [00:40:54] Speaker A: Yes, yes. And I was like, listen. [00:40:56] Speaker B: And I'm not saying German dancers are the Ford Focus. I'm saying, like, the reason this is an expense for you is because you need it to handle this way. [00:41:04] Speaker A: You need it. Also, sometimes I can. You can get a cheaper lease on a Mercedes than buying a Ford Focus outright. Like, because I'm like, I can do two days With LA dancers versus LA [00:41:17] Speaker B: dancers that I know. [00:41:19] Speaker A: Yeah. Five days with German dancers. Like, in. In a. You know, like, let's. Let's fucking cost plus this out. Because, again, I get. I understand your limits, but, like, let's. Let's find out how we need to make this work. But I think. And that line producer on that meeting also took out his wallet at one point, like a condescending prick, and said, all more money for. Or you want more money for all your little dancers? And I went. I grabbed my laptop and I said, I'm done. And I pushed it. I was like, you're acting like I'm asking you to, like, braid my hair. [00:41:54] Speaker B: Wow. [00:41:55] Speaker A: Yeah, I think that's also, like. And I love talking. Like, it's. It's those people on those jobs where it's like, I remember the most. I'm like, oh, God. [00:42:04] Speaker B: I could, like, you see that? [00:42:06] Speaker A: I could see that guy. [00:42:07] Speaker B: You go to bed every night. [00:42:09] Speaker A: And when that movie did well and I saw the premiere, I was like. [00:42:12] Speaker B: I was like, oh, don't you. Isn't that kind of funny? Don't you kind of wish that the jobs that were a pain in your ass didn't do well? [00:42:24] Speaker A: Sometimes I'm just. [00:42:25] Speaker B: And when they do really well, you're kind of like, yeah, I was talking [00:42:28] Speaker A: to someone the other day because they're [00:42:30] Speaker B: gonna keep going, doing it that way. [00:42:32] Speaker A: Talking about the Madison Post, right? I was like, I'm so over posting about work on Instagram because that's all I use my Instagram for now is just work. It's a portfolio. I'm not gonna post my dog, like, eating my nachos, because I've got that. I mean, I will. I will. But like, a hard post, like, yeah, I used to a lot, and I think now I'm just. My bandwidth is different, but. [00:42:58] Speaker B: Because you're. Yeah, yeah. [00:43:01] Speaker A: But I am so over, like, when I hear this is where it's. This is where it started from. A bunch of dancers did a project they fucking hated, and they were crying and they were quitting, and it was like this abysmal project. But when that thing came out, the project. Thank you so much. Thank you. Oh, I loved it. It was the best. Thank you, John and Sam, for this. And I'm like, hold on. It was the worst thing of your life. I'm so confused. So then it's like, all of these things are just so great and so wonderful, right? So I'm like, why aren't we both posting? Like, yeah, the store sucked. The Production manager was a. And made everyone's life a living hell. [00:43:42] Speaker B: You know why they don't do that? [00:43:44] Speaker A: I totally know, but. [00:43:45] Speaker B: Which is jobs. [00:43:47] Speaker A: Totally. But I can't wait till I get to a point where I could just be like, I worked for FK Twigs a couple years ago on this tour, and her production manager and tour manager just didn't get anyone visas and everyone was destroying her. Like, fuck you. [00:44:02] Speaker B: Because she had to cancel shows. [00:44:03] Speaker A: She had to cancel shows. And, you know, it's like your management says, release the statement. I'm so sorry. I'll be there soon. She was like, fuck that. The show was ready. I was ready. We had the money. We had, like, it was. We all did our jobs. I hired someone and paid someone to do their job, and they didn't. So she came out and said, like, my. My team didn't get the visas. Yeah. [00:44:25] Speaker B: And that is different for her. Her, because she is the artist. But for a dancer who is depending on this relationship with this person for future work, it. [00:44:35] Speaker A: It matters. I, so I get. [00:44:36] Speaker B: This is a problem. This is a pain point. And this is a challenge for dancers. And honestly, for anyone. [00:44:44] Speaker A: Like, how do you stand up for something? Get. Not burn it down. [00:44:49] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:44:50] Speaker A: It still remain, still have respect for yourself and people then can still respect you. Yeah, yeah. [00:44:58] Speaker B: I mean, I, I, I. This is a tough one. [00:45:05] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. Maybe we just stop there on that one. Because if we could talk personally about that all day. [00:45:10] Speaker B: No, it's important. And I, I love helping dancers find language for crunchy moments. [00:45:17] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:45:17] Speaker B: And I think what a lot of us wind up doing from a place of pain is overcompensate. Right. [00:45:26] Speaker A: Yes. [00:45:27] Speaker B: It's cultural for us to want to please and want to be liked. It's also part of our practice to overcompensate. [00:45:36] Speaker A: Yes. [00:45:36] Speaker B: When I'm learning how to pirouette and I keep falling out to my right, I'm going to push, I lean to my left, and the next time I turn, I fall out to my left. I think a little bit of that is happening in that moment where we're like, man, that was awful. Man, that was awful. How do I make it better? Oh, I say this really nice thing. [00:45:52] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:45:52] Speaker B: And what I would like to encourage people is that the public forum is not my favorite place to air grievances, but it is a place where I can report the facts. [00:46:05] Speaker A: Yeah. I think also, like, don't make it. Don't romanticize it. Facts. This is the commercial facts. [00:46:12] Speaker B: Last summer, I got to do this project for this brand under this choreographer and team. [00:46:18] Speaker A: I think that's my point. [00:46:19] Speaker B: Here it is. [00:46:20] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:46:20] Speaker B: Can't wait to hear what you all think about it. [00:46:22] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. [00:46:27] Speaker B: Somebody might say ungrateful, but also somebody might say cool. Awesome. [00:46:32] Speaker A: Can't wait to think the over romanticizing of the jobs is what's really. Because I think then you're like thinking of this exclusivity. [00:46:38] Speaker B: Right. [00:46:39] Speaker A: And then. And then these people go on. These jobs are like, well, why am I not having that experience? Why am I not in love with everyone in the process and this and that. And I think that like kind of [00:46:48] Speaker B: like it perpetuates two really unhealthy things. [00:46:51] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:46:51] Speaker B: Bad leadership and the people pleasing that leads to like, that encourages the tyrant to keep being a tyrant. [00:47:00] Speaker A: Yes. Yeah. And the ego feeding of the best job ever. Like, I love it when people come to me like, that was the fucking best thing ever. I've never. I haven't had that much fun. I love that. I'm like, please don't post about that. Like, keep that between us. Interested on this. Just. You don't even. I don't even care. That stuff doesn't matter to me why I. I like operating like this. [00:47:26] Speaker B: It doesn't have anything to do with how much you dislike when people do it for other people, does it? [00:47:30] Speaker A: I maybe. [00:47:32] Speaker B: No. [00:47:33] Speaker A: Because. Guilty. I've done it before. Okay. Right. Like, I. I think like my jobs, I am not doing get ready with me while I. You know what I mean? Like, I. I don't like to. I keep. [00:47:53] Speaker B: Be the center of the attention. [00:47:54] Speaker A: Yeah. I don't like that. [00:47:56] Speaker B: But what we talked about earlier is like the squeaky wheel getting the grease thing. Totally what we're talking about right now. Someone giving flowers to a person who's doing it. Well, like, why is that a problem for you? Because I think we want people to be talking about projects that are well run. [00:48:11] Speaker A: Totally. [00:48:12] Speaker B: To be celebrating the projects that are well run. [00:48:16] Speaker A: Can you put that little meme with the girl with the white little like equations. [00:48:21] Speaker B: Right. [00:48:22] Speaker A: Yeah. I think it's. [00:48:28] Speaker B: It's personal. You don't like being the center of attention. I get it. But I wonder if there's maybe a world in which you might think of yourself less as Danny Vitale being the center of that. [00:48:42] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:48:42] Speaker B: And more as choreographer, as superhero. [00:48:45] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:48:46] Speaker B: Like, we want dancers championing choreographers. Just like we want choreographers championing dancers. So if you happen to be that where that. [00:48:56] Speaker A: I think, here's the thing. I find to do it in my world. But then when it kind of. I. It's so hard to put words to it. Like, I. I think everyone's really scary, and I think so many people are misunderstood. Unless you're their roommate or their family or their loved one. I think people have these fleeting moments in time and they get misunderstood. And I think unless you deeply know someone or are given the platform to know someone, it's sc. I think for me, it's like, it's [00:49:33] Speaker B: just scary to be misunderstood. [00:49:35] Speaker A: Yes. That is so scary to me. So I think it's because I am very complex, you know, And I think the humor and that comes off first, and it's like, oh, I'm funny, I'm fun, I'm lax, I'm this and that. But, like, actually behind that curtain, I'm very, like, particular type a, straight lace. [00:49:54] Speaker B: Meticulous. [00:49:55] Speaker A: Meticulous. [00:49:55] Speaker B: Want to do a great job. [00:49:57] Speaker A: Yeah. Like, there's like, I am, like, autistically smart about certain things, but I kind of like to give the aloof, blah, blah, blah. You know what I mean? [00:50:04] Speaker B: It's part of your brand. [00:50:05] Speaker A: It's part of my brand. Yeah. So I think, like, doing this is why I wanted to do this was like, I don't think people know that or understand that or see that. Unless you've worked with me, unless you've known. You've. You've been on some job where we can off in overalls and jump around and eat corn dogs for lunch, and then, like, you know, meticulously go through a blocking scene where I come up with a bunch of ideas, and I, like, surprise you that I could even think like that. Like, I think, though, that's where I. I exist. And I think very few amount of people understand that. Yeah. Okay. And like, I was on a commercial the other day, and, you know, we're all, like, working out and being funny, and then the ad wanted something, and so I was like, okay, we'll do this, this, and this. Then all the dancers were like, well, no, that doesn't make sense. I was like, no, it does. This is what we'll do. And then it took him like, a minute, and they were like, oh, oh, wow. Yeah, you're right. [00:51:00] Speaker B: And I'm like, interesting. [00:51:02] Speaker A: And I think that happens a lot. And I. I do, like, I don't dumb myself down, but I don't, like, assert that, like, I'm in charge thing. And I think I don't. It. That is just not. Yeah. [00:51:17] Speaker B: If I may, as your friend, make an offering, please. If you're okay with production. [00:51:23] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:51:24] Speaker B: Thinking you're the bad guy for a second. Then I think you can in, in the pre production phase, like, if you're, you're working on, like asserting yourself in the early part of the production. [00:51:34] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:51:34] Speaker B: So that the end part of the production goes smooth, then I think you can be the good guy after the production is over and people had a really good time. [00:51:43] Speaker A: That's true. [00:51:44] Speaker B: If you're, if you're ready to be the bad guy at the beginning. [00:51:47] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:51:47] Speaker B: Then I would love to see you be ready to be the good guy at the end when people are wanting to. [00:51:51] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:51:51] Speaker B: Celebrate how lovely it was to work with you. [00:51:54] Speaker A: You're right. You're right. [00:51:55] Speaker B: It's, it's, it's my outside in. Yeah. That's nice. [00:52:04] Speaker A: Yeah. No, and you're right. I think we don't relish in our. [00:52:08] Speaker B: Because usually also you're on to the next already. By the time Mother Mary came out, you'd done three other things and it was like, oh, I don't know. I don't know what you think about that. [00:52:18] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:52:18] Speaker B: But I, I, I know you're super critical. I know you have a keen eye, and I know that most of your criticisms are of yourself. [00:52:27] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:52:28] Speaker B: You're very good at making criticisms of the outside world, but you're doubly critical of yourself. And I know you care what people think about you. And I know that you will be misunderstood. And I know that because I am misunderstood. And I literally have a podcast where I'm saying all my thoughts all the time, and still I misunderstood. And it is a thing that is a basic fact of life because I cannot, with the English language, convey my whole lived experience in any given moment. And so that's a risk. [00:53:01] Speaker A: And we only compare lived experiences from our own living experience. And that is just so crazy. [00:53:08] Speaker B: It is a challenge that we will be up against until there are weird little mind reading devices, at which point we'll have different challenges. I choose this challenge. I would rather be misunderstood than for everybody to know exactly what's going on in my mind all the time. So I take being misunderstood. I don't love it. [00:53:27] Speaker A: I like that. [00:53:28] Speaker B: It's better than the. [00:53:29] Speaker A: I like that. I like that. Yeah. Yeah. [00:53:31] Speaker B: I do want to hear a little bit about. We don't have a ton of time. [00:53:33] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:53:34] Speaker B: But I want to hear a little bit about the other and biggest project of your life, maybe. [00:53:38] Speaker A: Yes. My big passion project. [00:53:39] Speaker B: Your big passion project was just being a caretaker. [00:53:42] Speaker A: My dad. Yeah. [00:53:43] Speaker B: Tell me a little bit about your dad. What your daily Life is like when you're not on set. [00:53:48] Speaker A: The juxtaposition from being on set and having this year that I did and then coming home and being with my father is a. It's something I've just never even thought of. Like, I can say I've always, you know, I wanted to always be a dancer and I wanted to be a choreographer and I wanted to have a husband and I wanted dogs and we can. I always like, point back to something you wanted or manifested. Yeah, right. I've always kind of thought when my parents divorced, you know, 18 years ago or something, I'm like, oh, you know, I am a daddy's girl and my dad is my best friend and my partner and my thing's a strong tether. Yeah. I'm like, he will always be my, my responsibility, let's say. But it was always, he was always my drive also to, to be great and to, you know, make money and to put money away and to support him. And I just always. Him and my mom were always so giving and they, they just let me do anything and everything as a child. Like every sport, every style of dance, every competition, every recital number with all those fucking dumbass costumes. Every, you know, like, supportive. So supportive. Like, did it come with a rack of guilt sometimes, like, we don't go on family vacations because we go to nationals. [00:55:08] Speaker B: Oh, you said. Heard, heard. [00:55:12] Speaker A: Yeah, but like, it was, it was always yes thing, and I am so grateful for that. And when I said I don't want to take my SAT and act, and they were like, okay, but why? I had everything prepped. I wasn't just this, like, floozy, just like, I don't know, I'll figure it out. I was like, I want to do this, this and this. And you know, I was on also copious amounts of Adderall, but I had everything, like planned out. Like, I will audition for these and I have these binders still to this day. And so my mom was like, how do you tell a 16 year old that, like, that has this all planned out? No, she can go and do it. And if she, if it doesn't work, she can come home and go to school. School is always here, so I owe everything to them. And yes, they're parents. And being parents for the very first time, which you learn as you get older and you're like, oh, our parents are just doing this for the first time. [00:56:04] Speaker B: They are learning. [00:56:05] Speaker A: They're not pros. They're. They're learning. So while they were learning, they were separating. But Like, I was then manifesting relationships with both of them in different ways. And, you know, just being the. The daughter, you know, you just. I just became really close with my dad and, you know, I got him a house in 2017 with, like my first tour I did with Demi Lovato. And I was constantly, always, like, caregiving for him, but. But in a way of just like, I'm supporting you how you always supported me. As you get older, right? [00:56:35] Speaker B: Giving back. Giving back versus giving everything. [00:56:38] Speaker A: Everything. Yeah. And yeah, you know, he's had. He had some health things, but it was never like, this is scary. This is weird. Lived in Ohio, had a heart attack and had quadruple bypass. And when he came out of surgery, lived alone, drove like he had mild cognitive impairment, but was nothing. That was like, we need to put him in a home. It was very like, you're getting scammed. This is weird. [00:57:04] Speaker B: Okay. It's normal ag. [00:57:06] Speaker A: Normal ag thing. We. We should probably, like, talk about this. But I don't know, you know, it wasn't like red flags. Red. [00:57:12] Speaker B: It was like, in the next five to 10 years, we should have a plan for. [00:57:16] Speaker A: Yes. Something. Or we maybe I move home. I don't know. And we just like, maybe live down the street and we just kind of like watch you. And then when he came out of surgery, he had pharmaceutical delirium, which is a new. I learned so much. So while, like choreographing all this this year, I've become like a pseudo fake nurse, slash rn, slash lawyer. [00:57:41] Speaker B: Self taught, self taught, all self taught rn. [00:57:44] Speaker A: Yeah. So he came out of surgery just. Just not the same. And you know, you just deep dive into what is this? [00:57:53] Speaker B: Yep. [00:57:54] Speaker A: And so it was like a year of trying to figure out what it was. So many different diagnosis, like Alzheimer's, dementia delirium, ftd, Lewy Body, Parkinson's. Like, so. So many different things. And you just kind of like, pause. You're like, oh, this is my project now. [00:58:14] Speaker B: Oh, nobody's gonna do this but me. [00:58:15] Speaker A: Yeah. And you're like, oh, mom is an ex mom. This isn't her responsibility. Respectfully. She's there because of me and my brother. But like, okay, brother, sisters all gone. Dad, mom gone. [00:58:30] Speaker B: Wow. [00:58:31] Speaker A: There's no one there. And. And you. [00:58:33] Speaker B: You and your brother. [00:58:34] Speaker A: Yes, just me, my brother, my husband. And. And you look. Then you're like, oh, this is the point of family. Okay. I guess this is the point of procreate. Okay. Wow. [00:58:42] Speaker B: I see. [00:58:43] Speaker A: I see. [00:58:44] Speaker B: Argument for kids. [00:58:46] Speaker A: Yeah. Where I've always been, like, my Work's my kid. My artists are my kids. My, you know, students are my kids. My students. Yes, exactly. So that, that was crazy. And then I actually wrote. I pulled this up on the way here at Stoplights, but I was like, I wrote this thing last year about how caregiving is so parallel to working with artists. And I think it was in the same time the journey started. I was working with like Twigs and Annie and a couple other people. And you know, people come to you like, oh, you're so patient. You're so good with your words, you know, and you, you hear those compliments. And then I'd come home and I'd be at the, the hospital and. And then the nurses are saying the same thing. I'm like, this is so funny. And. And I remember like, my mom looked at me one night and my dad was having this crazy outburst of anger and agitation. And I was just like, it's okay. Hey, yeah, yeah, fuck that guy who's ever standing over there. Oh my God. But like, yeah, fuck him. Do we want ice cream? You know, and my mom was like in tears. I was like, what's wrong? She goes, I'm not. Yes, your dad. This whole thing is upsetting, but like, who are. I can't believe you're my daughter and this is the patience you have. And I was like, oddly, I think it's from working with [01:00:10] Speaker B: pop stars. [01:00:10] Speaker A: Pop stars. And like, I say that with like so much reverence. [01:00:16] Speaker B: But no, it's crazy. Actually, I have made the similarity between choreographers and doctors before. My sister's a physician. And there's a lot of overlap in our irregular hours, in our kind of responsible for saving lives. Unconventional, like unconventional non traditional crazy hours. No. Yeah. The difficult to balance work, life, blah, blah, blah. [01:00:40] Speaker A: People not understanding. Like, that's true. [01:00:43] Speaker B: Yes, totally. Like, when you're in it, you get it. When you're not, you don't. [01:00:46] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:00:47] Speaker B: But I think it sounds like you're experiencing that from the inside, which is like, oh, yeah, I know how to operate under these, these wild conditions. [01:00:55] Speaker A: Yes. [01:00:56] Speaker B: Because of this thing that I do all the time. [01:00:57] Speaker A: Yeah. And it be kind of. It became this thing that I kind of like just fell into. And like, yes, it's. It's been over. It's almost two years now. And I. I could not do it without my husband. I would literally die. Because we also have an 18 year old Chihuahua. So I feel like we have a hospice house. Yeah. It's really funny, like trying to. Yeah. 18. I did not know that. I've had her since I was four. Literally three. Yeah. And so it, it, it's, it's. This chapter right now is very interesting because I'll be on like a call I'll never forget. Like, it was a music call with a 24 and like all these people. And my dad walks in a dream. A dream, a dream call. Dream, dream, zoom. And my dad, like walks in the background, like in his like, depend. And like five electric razors and they're all on. And he's just like, what the. And I'm like, be right back. What? I'm like, this is a perfect. A 24 movie. I'm like, like, actually. And I can imagine it. Humor is the only way we can get through this. My dad was that guy. He's still kind of that guy sometimes. Of humor. Like, he'll fart and he'll be like, that's all I do lately. Like, there are moments where it comes through, but humor literally is, is the vessel in which we are moving through this. [01:02:23] Speaker B: It's your coping, it's your yeah. [01:02:25] Speaker A: Because it makes no sense. [01:02:27] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:02:28] Speaker A: And it's. I, I've met so many amazing people talking about it. I have made amazing relationships with people just voicing it and explaining like, yeah, I'm tired. This is where I'm at. And then someone across the room's like, I'm dealing with the same thing. And it's like you, you feel this crazy skin crawling connection to this person that you've never met. And then I have friends that I've had for 20 plus years that just, have fully, just dissolved. [01:02:56] Speaker B: Wow. [01:02:57] Speaker A: And I think that's a weird part of it. I think talking about frivolous things of entertainment world crap and then coming home and wiping my dad's ass earn him not knowing who I am. Or that's. It's so humbling is the wrong word. It is just, it's eye opening to like, what's important. And I've learned how to make boundaries. I've learned how to have patience. I've learned how to respect my time, which is now his time. [01:03:30] Speaker B: You've learned who your people are. [01:03:32] Speaker A: I've. God, have I learned who my people are, which is so weird. And you read. I read about it constantly. I'm such a nerd online. I'm constantly on Reddit talking to people. And I've met so many people on TikTok and Instagram who have parents that are, you know, going through it. And I think also it's such a big thing that is happening with the boomer generation, all of us will have [01:03:57] Speaker B: to deal with losing our parents. We either dealt with it when we were young and they left, or we will see them leave this world. [01:04:05] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:04:05] Speaker B: And why are we not better prepared for that? [01:04:08] Speaker A: Okay. I literally wrote this on the way here. I'm like, we all about not knowing about taxes. Why didn't our parents teach us? But, like, also at the same point, how did no one teach us that, like, they're gonna die one day. [01:04:18] Speaker B: Death is imminent. [01:04:19] Speaker A: Death is imminent. [01:04:19] Speaker B: Only thing that we are certain of. [01:04:21] Speaker A: And I have feared it since I was a child. I was the kid that, like, found a rock at recess and was scared to leave the inanimate object outside because I feared that it had feelings of being left. [01:04:34] Speaker B: So [01:04:36] Speaker A: a part of the dementia and the Lewy body. And the Lewy Body is odd because it's like this where, like, other types of dementias are like, step downs. You know, one day he is my dad for an hour, and then he turns into a monster. Then a zombie, then my dad. But then, like, a drunk version of my. And then he's seeing. It is like this. And then as a dancer or choreographer, I'm trying to po. Oh, well, he ate this, but then he did this, but then he pooped, but then he wore this, but then he drank this. So maybe this affected this. And you're so. I'm constantly trying to make sense of it. Yeah. And, like, so it's exhausting. But, yeah. He lives with me and my husband. We have an amazing caregiver that comes during the week sometimes. And it's just wild, you know, you think you're ready for kids. And it's so different. It's so different than. Than anything. And I have so much love and respect to people who have gone through this, are now talking to people and connecting because caregiving is the anticipatory grief of it all. Is the phrase that I learned this year of. I look at it as black and white, like, oh, but okay, we're all taking care of someone. Oh, you have baby, I have dad. Same thing. But it's like, oh, you're watching your kid growing and. And hope, joy, and whatever you put into it, it's coming out of it. And the anticipatory grief of a parent. I think we're at an age now. I just worked with someone who said, I almost wish my dad had cancer and not this, because this. He's in a perfect bill of health, but his brain is. We don't know. [01:06:18] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. [01:06:19] Speaker A: What it is. Every day you kind of wake up. You're like, [01:06:23] Speaker B: how do I treat? [01:06:24] Speaker A: How do I treat this? [01:06:24] Speaker B: How do I treat? [01:06:25] Speaker A: Am I crying? Am I laughing? Is this the last day that he'll speak? You know, and you're. You're just in this, like. Oh. This, like, constant roller coaster that's just kind of always. Honestly, always going up, like. [01:06:40] Speaker B: Ah. [01:06:40] Speaker A: It's just, like, clicking. [01:06:41] Speaker B: Ascend. [01:06:42] Speaker A: Yeah. You're just like, constantly going up and that click. And you're. And you just. Yeah. [01:06:48] Speaker B: Oh, my friend. [01:06:49] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:06:50] Speaker B: Thank you for sharing that so poetically. I know when you're in it, it doesn't feel like poetry. It's like, this is my life, and I don't understand it. [01:06:58] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:06:58] Speaker B: And I want to. And I want to help. [01:07:01] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:07:01] Speaker B: I want to be helpful. [01:07:02] Speaker A: You know what? Really quick, before we go. So I know we need to go, but I saw this really beautiful thing online about grief and people who, you know, lose grandparents, parents, friends, dogs. Like, I think we always. When someone loses someone, we look at what our relationship is with our grandpa. Right. Or whatever it is. Totally. [01:07:22] Speaker B: It's all we have to relate. [01:07:24] Speaker A: Right. But we don't know, like, that grandpa must have. Might have been dad or brother or, you know, whatever. But this small town, probably in Sweden or Switzerland, because they do everything perfect, is when someone dies in the town, they change something in their front yard. So they either, like, change their fence or put up. They change something, like, visibly that everyone can tell, because after someone dies, things aren't the same. [01:07:54] Speaker B: Ooh, I like this. [01:07:55] Speaker A: Isn't that beautiful? Because it's now with everything you can [01:07:59] Speaker B: signify to the world, a meaningful change has happened which honors and recognizes that loss of life is a meaningful change. [01:08:10] Speaker A: And we're versus, like, we'll be fine. Yeah, we'll be fine. Or let me know if you need anything. Sending you food for a week, and then life just goes on. [01:08:17] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. [01:08:17] Speaker A: But, like, grief is a big thing, and. And, I mean, even pets, like, being out here. Oh, I know. I know. Like, we get these pets out here, and there are. I got her when I was 20 on the Camp Rock 2 tour. Like, out. That is my. [01:08:34] Speaker B: That's your ride or die. [01:08:35] Speaker A: If my. [01:08:35] Speaker B: It's your daughter. [01:08:36] Speaker A: I tell my husband, I'm like, if [01:08:37] Speaker B: he died, I'd be sad, son. So. [01:08:40] Speaker A: But, like, Bella or Mia, commit me. Come find me. [01:08:46] Speaker B: It's real, it's big, and we don't have the necessary tools. [01:08:49] Speaker A: We don't. Or, like, remember when we used to wear black, like, old Italian Women back in the day, they would wear black, right? [01:08:55] Speaker B: For what? [01:08:56] Speaker A: Like. Like, until they were done grieving or, like, could go out in public and [01:09:02] Speaker B: be [01:09:06] Speaker A: a little more. I don't know. I don't know what. What the threshold was of. Of when they stopped wearing black, but, [01:09:11] Speaker B: like, there was, like, a number of days. [01:09:13] Speaker A: Was there. [01:09:13] Speaker B: I feel. I don't know. [01:09:14] Speaker A: Or was it just, like, personal preference of, like, hey, you know what? I'm feeling okay today. I'm not gonna wear black. I think it was kind of like that. [01:09:20] Speaker B: Love that idea. [01:09:21] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:09:22] Speaker B: I'll tell you right now, I'm not okay if Riz dies. Which she might not. [01:09:29] Speaker A: She might not. Yeah. [01:09:34] Speaker B: I will also say. And we might need to go out on this. [01:09:37] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:09:39] Speaker B: I was giving a critique, judging once, and I don't know how it was. Without my permission, the thought of her, of Riz's lifeless body entered my mind. Stop. I'm laughing because I'm like, I don't give permission. I didn't care. I. Nothing about this moment called for that. [01:09:59] Speaker A: And it just came. [01:10:00] Speaker B: But you know what? No, that's not true. It was about sadness. The piece was about grief. I'm trying to relate to what I'm watching. [01:10:07] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:10:08] Speaker B: And my brain offers me that. And I was in tears. I was inconsolable. I had to apologize. I was like, I am sorry. A huge well of emotion is surfacing. I would like to congratulate you for accessing that in me. And something you're doing must be going well, because I'm. Now, you tapped into something. [01:10:28] Speaker A: You did. [01:10:28] Speaker B: You broke. [01:10:28] Speaker A: You. [01:10:29] Speaker B: You broke the. The. The dam. [01:10:32] Speaker A: And I think, like, with corporate America, you can kind of, like, take a grieve of absence, leave a. Like. [01:10:37] Speaker B: But, like, with this art, we don't have. [01:10:38] Speaker A: No. I'm going to, like, class, and I'm doing jazz hands. [01:10:42] Speaker B: Yeah, we're auditioning. We're putting the face on. Oh, my friend. Well, I hope that, you know, you don't have to put a face on in our, like, friendship. You obviously have to put a face on for our recorded hangs, which you did very beautifully today, by the way. You guys, wait till you see if you haven't. Danny's coming soon. Little snippet. You look so beautiful. [01:11:05] Speaker A: Do I? [01:11:05] Speaker B: Yeah, it's really beautiful. Okay, okay, okay. [01:11:07] Speaker A: I got new foundation, so I'm, like, very excited. [01:11:11] Speaker B: Yo, finding the color, dude. Finding the color. [01:11:14] Speaker A: Do you know how long I was in that fucking Sephora for? [01:11:16] Speaker B: How long? [01:11:16] Speaker A: Like, three hours with those fucking bitches [01:11:19] Speaker B: would you end up getting is it Lady Gaga? [01:11:21] Speaker A: No refi refi refi thing and I [01:11:24] Speaker B: really like it but that was when I was 10 and now I'm not [01:11:28] Speaker A: so it's called refi. I don't know whoever Maryland at Sephora off of Ventura and Reseda. Thank you yeah but yeah how do [01:11:42] Speaker B: we there's no way to really wrap this I just I'm gonna tell you this seat is open to you anytime [01:11:48] Speaker A: you I think it needs to be a once a month let's go we come and recap my cup Runeth dry Thank you so much. You're the best and the world is very lucky to have you and this [01:12:01] Speaker B: thank you my friend and I really appreciate that. That means a lot. Thanks for watching Listening Leave a Like Subscribe Review Notification Keep it funky. Leave a Like Subscribe Leave a Notification that's me. Boomer Out Dance plus is produced by me with the help of many big big big big Love to our Executive Assistant and editor, Riley Higgins. Music is by Max Winnie, Logo and brand design by Bri Reitz. Our communications team consists of Ori Vajadares and Sydney Richardson, and we've got extra help from LMU intern Carly Clayton. If you're digging the podcast, please leave a review or rating. Also, if you want to connect with me and the many marvelous members of the Words that Move me community, visit danceplus podcast.com if you're curious to know more about me and all the stuff I do outside of the podcast, visit thedanawilson.com.