Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: And you also need to have a real good sex.
[00:00:03] Speaker B: I just said sexability.
[00:00:05] Speaker A: Sex appeal.
[00:00:08] Speaker B: You need to be 100% dedicated and you need to be 100% sexy.
[00:00:13] Speaker A: You don't make the rules.
[00:00:14] Speaker B: Otherwise, what are you doing here? We don't make the rules. We just follow them. Obviously.
[00:00:18] Speaker A: Truly.
Hello.
[00:00:22] Speaker B: Hello, my friend. Welcome to Dance Plus. Feels so good to say that.
I have an episode about the rebrand. If you haven't already watched, please give that a listen. But for now, buckle up and get ready for a really epic conversation. I've been an epic fan of Marie for a long time. Marie Spieldener, whose last name I'm still getting good at pronouncing it. And we're going in today, friends. We. We have one of those conversations that starts with one question and goes in nine different directions that I did not foresee.
The places we go in this episode are places I really needed to go today. I'm hoping the same is true for you. But before we get into it, let's do some wins. Today I am celebrating this fucking guy on Instagram who does ensemble. He does impressions of ensemble dancers from Broadway casts. I will be including link in the show notes because if you know Broadway at all or musicals at all, you're gonna die. It's the funny. It's the most accurate without being actual choreography. It's the most accurate impression of anything I've ever seen. And that is including Ariana Grande doing Celine Dion, which is flawless. But this guy on Instagram, y' all, will flip your frown all the way upside down. That's my win, having found a gem on the Internet. Thanks, Internet. How about you? What's going well in your world? Oh, tiny.
That's another win of Min it.
Riz is taking a nap with her nose in my armpit.
Congratulations. I am so glad that you're winning, and I'm so excited to share this conversation with Marie Spielenner.
What a star, y'.
[00:02:20] Speaker A: All.
[00:02:20] Speaker B: You are not ready for this. Enjoy.
I just did the butterfly. You'll find out why. Marie, welcome to the podcast. What the heck?
[00:02:33] Speaker A: Oh, my goodness. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Oh, my God. I'm so honored.
[00:02:38] Speaker B: Thrilled to have you. I've been a big fan of yours for a really long time, and I feel like I've just been, like, in the bleachers in the Marie fan section, just, like, just cheering you on from a distance for the last several years. You've been very busy, Dana.
[00:02:52] Speaker A: You have no idea. I have been looking up to you. Since I was a wee one.
[00:02:57] Speaker B: Tell me.
[00:02:57] Speaker A: Honestly, I'm still. I'm.
[00:02:59] Speaker B: I'm also. I'm only just now 20, so.
[00:03:01] Speaker A: Yes.
No. And I was just a fetus, like, looking out. No, I'm sorry. That was probably not. Okay.
[00:03:11] Speaker B: I'm here for it. This is why we film the podcast now for gems like that.
[00:03:15] Speaker A: Yeah. No, but I, like, honestly, you, Jillian and Megan, first of all, congrats on the most amazing show.
[00:03:23] Speaker B: Thank you.
[00:03:23] Speaker A: So beautiful. It was so fun to just look around and see everybody, like, in their outfits and, like, everybody giggling the same way that the kids were giggling. And, like, honestly, the thing that I. I've always felt from you and from you three is this ability to.
It's not even that you are giving permission. It's that you're showing. You don't need permission to be in this, like, state of curiosity and exploration and.
Yeah, I just. I have, like, chills all over my body because I agree.
[00:03:53] Speaker B: That was a very, like, needle of the eye, straight through my heart compliment. That is. That is a very cool review of the Seaweed Sisters.
[00:04:03] Speaker A: Like, please, can we put that on the website?
[00:04:06] Speaker B: We are here not to give you permission, but to show you that you don't need it.
[00:04:10] Speaker A: You don't need it. Yeah. So cool. I just feel like I've learned that from y' all so much. I know Riz. I has also learned.
[00:04:16] Speaker B: Riz has been learning firsthand.
[00:04:18] Speaker A: She don't need.
[00:04:18] Speaker B: Nobody told her she could have that bone.
[00:04:20] Speaker A: No.
[00:04:21] Speaker B: She was like, you know what? Here's a toy I haven't played with in eight months that my mom almost threw away twice.
[00:04:26] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:04:26] Speaker B: I'm sure I'm going to get into that today. Yeah. To encourage that.
[00:04:30] Speaker A: Thank you.
[00:04:30] Speaker B: So funny.
[00:04:31] Speaker A: Yeah. Okay.
[00:04:32] Speaker B: Well, thank you for that. That's very kind.
[00:04:33] Speaker A: Seriously. So I'm just, like, so honored, and I've been such a fan of this podcast. I think that it's so beautiful and it's so essential and.
[00:04:41] Speaker B: Yeah, just really excited to be here. Are we just gonna be dishing flowers at each other for the next hour?
[00:04:46] Speaker A: I hope so.
[00:04:47] Speaker B: I hope so, too. It's my way, so I hope you're prepared to receive.
But before we continue showering each other with compliments, tradition on the podcast, introduce yourself. What would you like the listener viewer to know about you? Okay.
[00:05:00] Speaker A: Hi. I am Marie Spieldenner. I am from Seattle, Washington, but It will be 10 years here in LA in August.
This has been my home, and I've been doing the dancing thing for a long time.
And, yeah, I'm just so grateful to be here. Seriously Sick.
[00:05:19] Speaker B: Good one. Nice job.
[00:05:20] Speaker A: Thanks.
[00:05:21] Speaker B: I do want to ask a question about your origin story because you were born in Japan, right?
[00:05:26] Speaker A: I was.
[00:05:28] Speaker B: And I'm just over here wondering if you have dual citizenship. What is that? What is it?
[00:05:33] Speaker A: No, it's like such a.
[00:05:35] Speaker B: Like your parents were on vacation.
[00:05:36] Speaker A: No. No. Okay. Oh, my gosh. That'd be, um. No. Funny enough, it's. It's like, I feel like the. My parents are the cooler ones. They both studied Japanese in college, and that's how they met is they met through, like, a Japanese language club.
And.
Yeah. And then my dad, it was kind of one of those, like, pre recession dream job situations where they were like, we will take care of your family. We will take care of your flights if you live in Japan and work for this company. Because he was like a. A person that bridged between an American company and a Japanese company. My mother taught English and they lived there for like six or seven years.
[00:06:11] Speaker B: Beautiful.
[00:06:12] Speaker A: My oldest brother wasn't born there, but my second oldest brother and myself are both born there.
[00:06:16] Speaker B: Cool.
[00:06:17] Speaker A: Unfortunately, in Japan, which I'm like, you know what? Japan and America, we've. We've been through some things, so I understand some boundaries, but, you know, you have to be born there, and then I think you have to live there for five years. Okay. Consecutive years. Okay.
[00:06:32] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:06:33] Speaker A: I was born there. They were like, you're baby number three. We need grandparents.
[00:06:36] Speaker B: Oh, yeah.
[00:06:37] Speaker A: Let's get back to the States. Okay.
[00:06:39] Speaker B: So you're the young.
[00:06:40] Speaker A: Not that youngest of three. I'm actually number three of five.
[00:06:43] Speaker B: Oh, my goodness gracious.
[00:06:44] Speaker A: Yeah. There's a whole gang of us.
[00:06:45] Speaker B: Okay. My mom is one of 11. I should not pretend to be shocked by. Five is good. I just, for myself, cannot imagine one. So when I hear you say five and I respond that way, it's purely from my own experience of my body and having eaten a chipotle burrito and feeling totally not okay. Like, how could someone be more full than that? I don't.
[00:07:06] Speaker A: Oh, no.
[00:07:06] Speaker B: That's hard for me.
[00:07:07] Speaker A: It's insane.
[00:07:08] Speaker B: So, okay, three of five.
Do you feel like your birth order as kind of mid has shaped your life? And, I mean, I also am a middle.
[00:07:18] Speaker A: Yeah. You know, the middle child stereotype is
[00:07:20] Speaker B: pretty real spot on for me.
[00:07:21] Speaker A: You know, And I think that, I mean, first and foremost, I feel like my parents did everything that they could to, like, try to raise good people. I love my siblings. We hated each other as children, but we love Each other now. You know, it's really. I feel really lucky. But it's hard, you know, Like I. I can only imagine being a mother of five and trying to, I mean like just.
Each child is trying to grab the attention of that parent at all times. So I always joke my brother made this up, but we're kind of like a group of anxious go getters.
We all are like really eager and really. But also we're trying to be individual because there's five of us. Yeah.
[00:08:03] Speaker B: Give me agency and authenticity and individual. Individuality, period.
[00:08:08] Speaker A: Individ that too.
[00:08:09] Speaker B: And individuality. Or give me death.
[00:08:11] Speaker A: No, truly. And like also being raised on my brother's hand me downs from clothes to technology to, you know, like not having my own thing. I think that like dance became my thing. And I know for a fact that like dance initially started as a way to find a place for me to be supervised. Yes. You know, like my alternative daycare. Literally.
And I think she tried to put my little sister, my little brother in dance at one point too.
[00:08:39] Speaker B: One drop off.
[00:08:40] Speaker A: Oh my God, if I can get three of the kids there for five hours, like I can maybe get the dishes done, you know, so, you know, bless her. Bless both my parents. Truly. They, they did everything that they.
[00:08:51] Speaker B: Bless all the parents doing drop offs and pickups and extracurriculars. And it is a gift to have supportive parents, especially in creative fields.
[00:09:01] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:09:01] Speaker B: Not that soccer isn't cool and supportive and good, but I'm just like man, dance parents don't get enough credit. There's a lot of bad reputation around being a dance mom. My mom was a great dance mom. Drop off, pickup.
[00:09:13] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:09:14] Speaker B: You know, and costumes. Phenomenal costumes.
[00:09:17] Speaker A: Oh, say that.
[00:09:17] Speaker B: Yeah, she was great at that.
[00:09:18] Speaker A: Costumes. I mean, honestly, like I've actually thought a lot about that exact concept. Like just jumping into the art industry. Because every other industry, even our own childhoods, I feel like are raised in like a reward system totally. Like, you know, you get good grades and you get to be in the honor roll system. You're acknowledged, you're recogn as this smart student or even like you doing your chores, you get allowance.
[00:09:43] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
[00:09:43] Speaker A: There's a, there's a cause and effect that happens.
And in the art industry, you know, it's. There's no reward system. Like you can't work super hard and think that this is going to be the thing that gets me the job. Everything is based on opinion.
[00:09:57] Speaker B: Right.
[00:09:57] Speaker A: And I just, I feel so much like my heart is so big for parents that allow their Kids to jump into this world because knowing that hard
[00:10:07] Speaker B: work doesn't equal success. Exactly. Yeah.
[00:10:11] Speaker A: Hard. You're gonna. Your kid's gonna be working their butt off, and they're gonna hear no a lot. A lot, a lot of times. And. And, you know, it's. It's just.
It's that. It's just a little challenge to it all of just accepting. Like, I mean, that I feel like that's actually the muscle that, you know, we should be working on. Or I think about, like, back when I was a convention kid. Like, I wish that I really took time to, like, see that part, too, of, like, this practice of convention isn't just to learn a new foundation. Also amazing and exciting. Great.
[00:10:45] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:10:45] Speaker A: I love it. What we're really doing at convention is, like, learning the muscle of rejection and learning how to pick yourself back up and, like, choose yourself again. Continue, you know, because I just, like, didn't think about that.
[00:10:58] Speaker B: Yeah, no. Starts happening quite early for us.
[00:11:02] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:11:03] Speaker B: First time I tried fifth position was hard. No, that's incorrect.
But I do think that that is mirrored in sports and things like that. I do think you can get similar value systems encouraged or discouraged in other places. But what I don't think exists in other spaces is the direct line of communication between feeling and thinking and acting. It's like brain, think, heart, feel, body, dance is. Is what we get to practice there. And if we're doing it right, we keep.
We keep a high value on the. On the individual's way of doing that. But I think what can happen all too often is, like, we look up to the people who are touted as being the best, and we think that we have to do it like them in order to be successful, to think, to feel, and to move like them.
And I think. I think the Seaweed sisters are good examples of like.
[00:12:06] Speaker A: Or.
[00:12:07] Speaker B: There's this. And I think you are a beautiful example of like. Or. There's my way.
[00:12:11] Speaker A: Or.
[00:12:11] Speaker B: And. And that's good. Your. Your way is good.
[00:12:13] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:12:14] Speaker B: And my way also can. Can be good.
[00:12:16] Speaker A: Yes. Yeah.
[00:12:18] Speaker B: And because there's no score.
Because there's no points. You're right. It's entirely subjective.
The navigating of.
[00:12:26] Speaker A: Whoa.
[00:12:27] Speaker B: The navigating of how to do this thing is. It can be tricky.
[00:12:30] Speaker A: It's a sensitive one.
[00:12:31] Speaker B: Enter the podcast.
I'm excited to dig in with you about like. I feel like your post pandemic experience of the working world has been different than a lot of people's. I. A lot of people I talk to are like, Yo. The pandemic changed everything. It's been hard for me to get back into stuff in my eyes. From the. From the Marie cheering section of the bleachers. It seems like you haven't stopped. Is that your experience of post Covid. Post writer strike entertainment?
[00:13:04] Speaker A: Yeah, it's been. It's been really interesting, I think, actually, the pandemic, because I didn't book anything for two years. Two consecutive years. And afterwards, during.
[00:13:15] Speaker B: During. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:13:17] Speaker A: It was like. Yeah. Like, I remember March 17, I had a fitting for a major Jean brand campaign. March 17th of 2020.
[00:13:26] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:13:27] Speaker A: I had a major. I had a fitting for a major Jean brand. I had gotten the principal role. I had, like, I was so excited, so ready. And then everything shut down and the fitting got canceled and the campaign.
[00:13:39] Speaker B: The job went away.
[00:13:40] Speaker A: Job went away. And I had been booking a lot pretty consistently within the, like, that year or so before, like, 2019. 2020 was really, like, a cool year.
[00:13:53] Speaker B: Things starting to take off.
[00:13:54] Speaker A: Yeah. And.
And I had done it from, like, my hard work and my fire and my, like, you know, delusion of, like, I'm gonna get this.
[00:14:02] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:14:03] Speaker A: So it was coming from this real intense place.
[00:14:05] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:14:06] Speaker A: And then the pandemic shut everything down, and I had to, like, actually sit in front of a mirror.
And at first, sitting in front of a mirror, it was like, oh, my hair looks crazy and my body looks crazy, and I hate this and I hate that. And finally something unlocked that was like, literally, this is the only body that you get. You are your forever roommate. You have to figure out how to love yourself.
And for me, the pandemic was a time to like, get really honest and really, like, down to my core.
And within that also, you know, I had to make money. So then I was, like, trying to find ways to stay in dance while still paying my bills.
And I actually started to work for this foster care program called Fostering Dreams. It's ran by Melanie Butterazi. I don't know if you know who that is.
[00:14:50] Speaker B: Why is that so familiar?
[00:14:51] Speaker A: She was a professional dancer. She. I think she did. So you think Canada.
[00:14:56] Speaker B: Okay. Okay.
[00:14:56] Speaker A: She's an angel. She's the most sweet, like, just down person ever. And she has this amazing program that works with kids in the foster care system all throughout the Los Angeles school district.
And then some. Like, I. I've traveled to Bakersfield to work at some schools there.
[00:15:12] Speaker B: I've.
[00:15:13] Speaker A: You know, they also work in group homes, they work in rehab centers, women's shelters. Like, you're. You're basically Just trying to get everybody up and dancing to shake it out. It's just somatic relief.
And also within that, it was like such a challenge because you're working with people that so much. Varying relationship sedans, if any, most likely none. Right. And like separately, the. Their autonomy in their life is really non existent. So their way of making control is resisting. You know, despite saying, I don't want to do that. I think that looks stupid.
[00:15:48] Speaker B: I.
[00:15:48] Speaker A: You know, it was like my job to try to figure out how to get these little teenagers who frankly were like roasting the fuck out of me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. To want to get up and dance.
[00:15:57] Speaker B: Wow, what a challenge.
[00:15:58] Speaker A: It was. It was something. And like every single day, you know, was a different story of like, some classes were really awesome and rewarding, some classes were like, wow, I'm gonna go talk to my therapist about that one. You know, like, it was just really. It was one of those jobs where you could not expect anything, you could not assume anything. The class was never going to be the same.
And what I really learned from it was the desire of being seen. Like, the kids that were lashing out, the people that were resisting, a lot of times it was. They just don't feel seen in their regular life.
And within that, you know, it was my job to find a safe space for them to feel seen enough that they could even just get up and move.
[00:16:41] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:16:42] Speaker A: Just the simple task. Yeah, yeah, that.
Yeah. I just feel like over. Throughout that time, it was like, I'm not dancing. I'm working with these kids who are just like, just blowing my mind. You know, talk about privilege.
And then from there to like also kind of. It started to get to a point within that job that I was like, actually, I think that my.
I'm not like, certified enough. Like, I would like to have more knowledge and more education on like how to work with these kids. Really?
[00:17:13] Speaker B: Yeah. Because what you're doing is not teaching dance. You are overqualified to be doing that, but maybe under qualified to be like
[00:17:24] Speaker A: properly handling their psyche Psychology.
[00:17:26] Speaker B: Yeah, basically.
[00:17:27] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. And like, I would like to say I was really doing my best to be a sponge. So it's like I was just learning a lot on the spot. And Melanie was an amazing mentor in that process too. I never felt, like, unsafe, but it was just like, wow, I'm like taking on a whole new thing that really is not about me.
And so frankly, I was, you know, in this dynamic of like, I'm not working as a dancer.
This job is really special.
Maybe I'LL go back to school. And so I actually like started to take classes at the Los Angeles Valley Community College. Just some psychology courses. I was nice, you know, because I was frankly like, I had kind of come to a state of acceptance that like, okay, maybe dance isn't it. Maybe I'm not going to pursue the dream.
And then I started to take Modus, taking Deanna's program, which frankly like, I know that was like such a special thing for the pandemic. But man, like you, you, it was so, it was so valuable. I'm so thankful to have had that opportunity. Yes.
[00:18:29] Speaker B: And big fan.
[00:18:32] Speaker A: I mean it was just like one of those rooms where like the best of the best were in there and we were all getting our asses handed.
[00:18:37] Speaker B: Nice.
[00:18:37] Speaker A: You know, I was like looking over
[00:18:39] Speaker B: and I'm like, that's a nice feeling.
[00:18:40] Speaker A: You know what I mean? Yeah. Need that. Don't have a lot of those faces.
[00:18:43] Speaker B: That's a great point.
[00:18:44] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. So it was really nice. And she, you know, she could see that I was in this like this state of coming to that acceptance. And it wasn't a peaceful acceptance, it was like resistant, really heartbroken about it, you know. And she was just the one that was like, you like need to let go and grieve the idea of what you thought this career was gonna be. Cause it's not gonna be that, you know, whatever 16 year old Marie wanted you to pursue or achieve, you know, it's not gonna happen and, or it's not gonna happen the way that. Not like that it won' you know, and, and I had like, oh, that was like also the like the bridge time where we were slowly coming back post pandemic where it was like we were in the studios together, some in person auditions, something. So I was like making it to the end of a lot of auditions too that were like really, I thought were like really cool it and made
[00:19:36] Speaker B: for you and gonna be the one,
[00:19:38] Speaker A: you know, and just not getting them. But then also being told in class that you're doing great, you're doing everything right. And I just like broke down in front of her and was like, I don't fucking understand this shit. I don't understand it anymore. I'm gonna let it go. Like I'm gonna go do something else. And yeah, just taking that space to really grieve the idea of what I thought my career was gonna be kind of side but also a part of this. I like was assisting a lot of choreographers when I first moved to la. So I Had this idea of, like, well, I was assisting choreographers, but then it, like, I was going through my own stuff, and I just didn't feel safe in those environments. So then I was, like, really resistant of assisting, and I didn't want to. I didn't want to do it at all. I wanted to just be a dancer. I wanted to pursue, you know, just that career. I saw so many of my friends who were, like, assistants for a couple conventions, but then, like, immediately book a world tour, and they're just dancing, doing the performer thing, you know?
[00:20:31] Speaker B: And was that what it was? You wanted to be performing?
[00:20:33] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:20:34] Speaker B: Or that plus you didn't want to be in support roles.
[00:20:37] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:20:38] Speaker B: For various reasons or for anything, you
[00:20:40] Speaker A: would change my ego. Like, really, like, I think my ego was just in play of, like, this. This idea of being an assistant made me feel lesser than at one point, and I don't want to feel lesser than. I want to feel important, you know, I want to feel seen, I want to feel special. And I think that dancers that are put on the job, you know, they feel seen, they feel special, and blah, blah, blah.
Of course, when I was able to really grieve the idea of, like, you're not going to be just a dancer. Like, you're going to. This is also another outlet for you to make money, you know, like, at a certain point, girl, like, like, get up and pay your bills. But yeah, once I finally, like, embraced that, I actually, like, reached out to my agent, was like, okay, I think I'm open. I think I'm available to come back to assisting.
[00:21:23] Speaker B: Nice.
[00:21:23] Speaker A: Misha from Clear Love. She and I both signed with Clear the same year.
[00:21:28] Speaker B: Get out.
[00:21:29] Speaker A: We've both been there together for 10 years, and, yeah, she's literally seen me through it all, and I've also been able to be like, you know, like, she's. She's been that person for me. So she knew about, like, everything that I've been feeling. And, yeah, that was the moment where I was like, I think I wrote you down on the list. I think I wrote Meg down on the list of, like, I'm happy to assist them if they ever need, you know, like, she was like, I'm happy to, like, put your name out. And funny enough, in that transition, Tyrique, I had started to, like, kind of work with him just on, like, little projects that he was working on.
[00:22:01] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:22:01] Speaker A: And just, like, passion projects.
[00:22:03] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:22:04] Speaker A: And he reached out and was like, hey, Taya, my main assistant is dancing in this commercial. She booked it as a dancer And I'm looking for an assistant. Any chance that you're available?
And it's just, you know, divine timing because I was like, finally to a place within my own ego and self that I was able to be like, yes, I'm happy to assist. Even though I auditioned for this commercial, and, yeah, that's a double whammy, you know, didn't book it. But now here I am on the other side, and I don't know if it was just the right people on the job. It was a very special project.
But something just shifted in me that was like, okay, assisting doesn't have to feel the way that it used to feel.
It doesn't have to be this thing where I'm always learning a lesson. I was so young when I was assisting, too, that I was like, of course I was learning on the spot, but I. I think I was so sensitive at that time that I, like. I mean, I'm always sensitive, actually.
Wrong word.
[00:23:00] Speaker B: Yeah, Wrong word to use.
[00:23:01] Speaker A: But I was just so. I was really in my ego that when I was younger, that, like, you know, messing up felt like, oh, my God, I'm going to get fired, or I'm the worst ever. I'm stupid. And they're telling me I'm stupid. And they're not really.
[00:23:14] Speaker B: They're not stupid. But, you know, like, making every mistake mean something that it didn't mean 100%.
[00:23:20] Speaker A: Yeah. It really pushed me for a second to, like, I can't do this because I don't want to feel like that.
But now when I know that those
[00:23:27] Speaker B: feelings are optional, that you don't have to feel that way even if you do mess up. Yeah. Totally optional.
[00:23:34] Speaker A: That was that project with Tyreek.
[00:23:35] Speaker B: Okay.
Oh.
[00:23:37] Speaker A: I actually can really enjoy this side of things. And I. I enjoy helping people. I enjoy being of service. I think I learned that within the fostering care project or service.
[00:23:51] Speaker B: Service. Service.
[00:23:52] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:23:52] Speaker B: You know, feel you. That's why I love teaching. Yeah. That's why I also still love assisting and associating.
[00:23:58] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:23:58] Speaker B: Sometimes I prefer it to, like, the chopping block, being with my head on it.
[00:24:03] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:24:04] Speaker B: Sometimes I'm like, yes, you field all the difficult stuff. I get to do. The fun part sounds great.
[00:24:09] Speaker A: 100%. Like, a hint of personality. Higher, too. Like, just. I love. I love being around people, and I love being of service. And.
And I don't have to feel like this is this life or death situation. I can just come in and actually just enjoy the job, you know?
[00:24:24] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:24:24] Speaker A: So all that to go back around, like, the pandemic for me, because it was a state of stillness. I.
I mean not still at all, but it really felt like a moment of like real quietness in myself that I actually think that's why my career is flowing the way that it is. Because I really took the time to concentrate and like hone into who I am as a singular. What am I stripped away with everything else? Like what am I outside of dance? What am I, who am I as a human? You know?
So yeah, that kind of jumped into that world. And I've also, I have this like ongoing thing as I'm doing a lot of self work right now in present time that I'm noticing a cycle is I am the substitute that stays. Like I get brought on as a sub. Last minute it happened with Mia Michaels. I got brought on as a sub and literally just remained for however long she wanted to continue her choreography career. Tyreek Taya's not gonna be available. Are you available, Robbie? Like for anxiety? There was a whole other assistant for that project and then she booked a tour and he was like, I'm looking for somebody that can kind of stand in as an associate because I'm double booked. I'm not going to be available for one of the shoot days. Any chance you're in town? Yeah. And I thought it was like going to be a one off thing. I thought it was just like helping a buddy out.
[00:25:41] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:25:41] Speaker A: And then I. It just stuck and we just.
[00:25:45] Speaker B: What do you, what do you think it is that is the reason why you stay?
Or what are the reasons why you say? What do you think?
[00:25:52] Speaker A: I, I don't even think I know. I've been trained to do everything. Like I, I feel very lucky. My home studio was very big on teaching us how to be professionals in a holistic way of like not just how to show up and pick up the choreography fast, but like how to actually fund. You know, we had like a pre professional program so we had to fund ourselves to get to Los Angeles. We had to schedule all of our college tours and meetings with dancers or teachers and mock auditions. We had to like learn responsibility, learn discipline and professionalism.
[00:26:31] Speaker B: I would like to note that you are the only guest I've ever had that asked if 1pm was our record start time or if that was when you should arrive. You were like, what's the buffer? Do I need to arrive before one? Like are we hitting record at one or do? And I was like, oh, that's a very professional question. Professional Riz. Professional Riz, get over here.
[00:26:51] Speaker A: Gil, I love you, my little baby. Oh, my God.
[00:26:54] Speaker B: Yeah. So. So you attribute those qualities to early training days.
[00:26:58] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:26:59] Speaker B: And then probably also all of the learning you did after that.
[00:27:03] Speaker A: I feel like the. Like actual.
The technical things.
So true, girl.
[00:27:10] Speaker B: She's not bored. She's just.
[00:27:12] Speaker A: She's got something to say.
[00:27:15] Speaker B: She's just lying on her back. Yo, I got. I found the spot in her ear and she looked. She's purring. She's not swearing, she's praying. Oh.
[00:27:21] Speaker A: I. I mean, if she was snoring too, I respect that as well.
Okay.
[00:27:26] Speaker B: Sorry, we're back.
[00:27:27] Speaker A: No, I.
I think I learned the technical things, the technicalities of assisting tech.
[00:27:34] Speaker B: Oh, it's tough. Yeah, it was tough.
[00:27:36] Speaker A: One of, you know how to be a professional in the sense of, you know, be on time.
[00:27:42] Speaker B: No. Here's how to read a call sheet.
[00:27:45] Speaker A: You know, just the. Like, the basic stuff. And also, I. I was a pulse kid. I.
[00:27:51] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:27:51] Speaker A: You know, traveled with those choreographers for a year.
[00:27:54] Speaker B: High standard.
[00:27:55] Speaker A: You know, I was a part of the Dance Makers has a. A pro assistant. Or not a pro assistant, but they have, like, an assistant program that also is really big on teaching you how to be cool.
[00:28:06] Speaker B: I did not know that. That's cool. Love them.
[00:28:09] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. So sweet. Erica. Obviously the best.
[00:28:13] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:28:15] Speaker A: But, yeah. I feel like I learned all the technicalities and then it, like, took a long time, but I learned, like, the in betweens.
[00:28:23] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:28:23] Speaker A: Everything, like the actual sensations, the actual energy that's behind having those technicalities.
[00:28:29] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:28:29] Speaker A: As time went on and I kind of forgot your question, so.
[00:28:34] Speaker B: No, that's cool. We answered other questions. My question was, what are the reasons that you stay?
And what I'm hearing is that it's nothing. That you're.
Nothing exceptional about you. It's like you're doing things, which I don't think is true, but you're doing things that.
[00:28:53] Speaker A: This is just part of my job
[00:28:53] Speaker B: that professional people should do.
[00:28:55] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:28:56] Speaker B: You're reading the room, you're being on time, you're reading the material. You have understanding of many different styles and energies of dance.
And then I think.
I don't know.
I'll say just one more thing.
[00:29:15] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:29:16] Speaker B: You might think that you're doing things by the book and naturally and just doing as you were taught at all of these awesome training opportunities that you've received.
An assistant is a difficult position.
[00:29:27] Speaker A: Right.
[00:29:28] Speaker B: And a lot of times you need a different thing from.
From an assistant on a different project.
[00:29:33] Speaker A: Absolutely.
[00:29:34] Speaker B: But there are certain things that you will need 100 of the time, and that is reliable. That is a strong communicator, that is on time, and that is professional.
And I think that there.
My question might have just been stupid because I asked, why do you stay? And I think the answer is because you never did anything that made them say leave.
[00:29:57] Speaker A: You know, I think you're right. I think it really is just like, I. Yeah, I know that I'm a professional at my job. I think, if anything, the thing that I'm, like, working on within myself right now is the question of, like, why am I the substitute? You know? But I. You know, like, why am I not the first choice? But I've come to.
[00:30:13] Speaker B: What do you think the answer to that question is?
[00:30:15] Speaker A: I think that people underestimate me, and I. I've taken a lot of time to, like, really be okay with that. Okay. I actually don't.
I. Of course, you know, there was a period of time where it was like, I am not seen. I'm not worthy. I'm not blah. You know, but actually, like, I am okay if you underestimate me, you know, because the people that don't are the people that I work with. And, like, I love what I do. I feel safe. I feel respected.
[00:30:44] Speaker B: Nice.
[00:30:44] Speaker A: I feel taken care of in those rooms. I feel like I. My voice and my opinion matter in those spaces. That, like, feeling. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, I. I feel like the.
It's just been a funny thing of, like, at first, for sure. It was such a bruise to my ego of, like, well, you pick this person first. And now it's like, I'm gonna show up whenever I should.
[00:31:07] Speaker B: What?
[00:31:08] Speaker A: Whatever you need, I'm just gonna show up. I'm gonna do my job. If you like it, great.
[00:31:11] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:31:12] Speaker A: If you don't, it's all good, you know? But. Yeah, I think somehow. Yeah, I think that just.
I also. I'm jumping a little, but I. I also feel like the baseline professionalism.
I think we can relate this to dance. Like, when you feel really grounded in a foundation, you have the ability to freestyle any way anyhow. Yep. I feel this even how you three were performing. Like, I tried to just to, like, talk to a friend about the language that you three created. Cool show.
And, like, I know for a fact that some of that was freestyled because of. Of whatever was going on our language during the show.
[00:31:49] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. The script is very loose.
[00:31:52] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:31:52] Speaker B: It's mostly improvised.
[00:31:54] Speaker A: Yeah. But, like, having that base foundation of, like, you know what you're doing.
[00:31:59] Speaker B: We know the beats.
[00:32:00] Speaker A: Yes. That You. You can flow within. Yeah. That's how I feel in work, where it's like, I feel like I have this baseline of understanding and knowledge. And now I'm going to take that and I'm not going to assume I'm going to show up and I'm just gonna jump in and see what. What's needed based on the foundation that I have. Nice to even bring it back more. I feel like, frankly, everything that I learned during the foster care program is what I use on set every day.
Every day. Like, the, the feeling of being seen does not just equate to the talent.
[00:32:35] Speaker B: No.
[00:32:35] Speaker A: Oh, my God.
[00:32:36] Speaker B: Everybody wants to feel seen.
[00:32:37] Speaker A: Everybody does.
[00:32:38] Speaker B: Respected, useful. Yes.
[00:32:41] Speaker A: They want to be a part of it. You know, we're. We're a part of this industry that's so influential and special and like, you know, everybody wants to have their. Their name in their hand, a part of it. And it's so easy. I can. I watch it all the time. Different department heads, you know, schleff off their. Their PA or schleff off whatever. And even in dance, you know, even in the dance world with all the love.
[00:33:04] Speaker B: Oh, yeah.
[00:33:05] Speaker A: It's. I think that we're, like, so slowly progressing, but it definitely has been something like that's.
[00:33:10] Speaker B: There's. There's a value system at play in our society, in our culture, in the subculture of dance, but also in the grand culture, the grand scheme of America, in the world that says certain people are more valuable and not. And I really don't believe that at all.
To a fault. Sometimes I think the, The. The subject of being deserving comes up a lot in my therapy sessions and my coaching and in my relationships is like, that person's not worth your time. What are you still doing messing with? And I'm like, who's to say? If my time is spent there, then it's worth it. Like, I. I really do value and being deserving. I think 100% of us are valuable and 100% of us are worth happiness, sadness, success, and failure. All of us will experience those things. We are all worth it and deserving of them.
And for me, that's like, that's my bedrock of knowing. That's all that I know. Those are the things that I know. Everything else, I'm here to learn.
[00:34:11] Speaker A: Yeah. And it feels like a level of efficiency.
[00:34:14] Speaker B: Oh, yeah.
[00:34:14] Speaker A: Comes into play when everyone feels seen and ready to go.
[00:34:17] Speaker B: Now we can all operate.
[00:34:18] Speaker A: Yeah. We all understand the purpose. We all want to be here. I mean, I feel that way Even, like, getting the opportunity to, like, jump from, you know, being on the choreo side versus being a dancer.
Dancers aren't told anything. We're never shown the shot list.
[00:34:31] Speaker B: We're never.
[00:34:32] Speaker A: We're never given an idea. We're just cattle driven one way and then pushed in another way and then told to do, you know, like. And we're happy to be there, easy to work with. But it's. It's so crazy because the moment I go up to a dancer and I say, hey, so this is what we're trying to grab right now. This is the shot that we're hitting.
Shot is done in 15 minutes.
[00:34:50] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:34:51] Speaker A: You know, like, having to work, literally that project with Tyrique, we had a cast of 40, and it was some. Most of them were dancers, but some of them were models. Some of them were people with disabilities. Some of them, like, we were working with such a wide range of human.
And the way that we were able to get them together. Actually, I remember this very specific thing where we had a pre light day and we were trying to get this major overhead shot and the choreo that we made was beautiful. But when we really brought the camera out to that wide, you couldn't see any. Any of the movement. People didn't see any of it.
[00:35:24] Speaker B: So.
[00:35:24] Speaker A: And of course, we're shooting the next day and everyone's call time is 6am and all this stuff. And you know, we were working with a director, her name's C. Prince, who.
[00:35:32] Speaker B: Oh, yeah.
Shout out. Future podcast guest. For sure. For sure.
[00:35:37] Speaker A: My freaking. I love her so much. And she is also.
[00:35:40] Speaker B: Dance down.
[00:35:42] Speaker A: She used to dance. Yeah. So she understands and she has a. An empathy for what dancers need in the space dream scenario.
So because of that, we all band together and she was like, okay, I'm gonna push all of the number one on the. The call sheet stuff to the morning. We'll make that first thing so that you guys have a couple of hours to rework and maybe, you know, set it on your 40 dancers.
[00:36:05] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:36:06] Speaker A: And of course, there was a moment where Tyrique was like, is this just being inconsiderate? Like, are we just. We've been in rehearsal for a couple of days now going over this choreo. This stuff is hard. Like I said, some of them weren't dancers, so they're like really working hard to really get this choreo right.
And I was like, here's what we do. We're gonna get them on the same page as us. We're gonna treat them Exactly. Like, they are our equal and we're gonna show them the footage. Yeah. Because usually, once again, you don't get seen, you don't get shown anything. You don't get. So it's like, let's just show them so that they all. Because they're all individual artists that all have their own artistic opinions and they
[00:36:41] Speaker B: want to look great and want the project to do well.
[00:36:43] Speaker A: You know, we all have the same
[00:36:45] Speaker B: end goal in that way. And. But this moment is very important. What do we do? Do we scrap it?
Do we honor what we've been building?
[00:36:52] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:36:52] Speaker B: Keep talking. This is so interesting, this moment. It happens a lot. Like, especially on a longer term gig. This will happen at least once. Oh, of course. But this moment, I'm so curious to hear what happened. Go.
[00:37:03] Speaker A: At 6am we're like, before you all get into hair and makeup, please come sit and huddle with us. Let's all look at this footage together. As you can agree, it's not reading, it's not digestible. And we're, you know, Dina Thompson is in this motherfucking. Yeah. You know, like, we have a. We have an amazing voba. Like, we have amazing, brilliant brains in this cast who are all like, yeah, that doesn't read.
[00:37:24] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:37:24] Speaker A: So we were all like, we all can agree that this is. This is a challenge that we're all going to work on together. Yep. We already have the new choreo. Okay. We're all going to do.
[00:37:33] Speaker B: When did that happen?
[00:37:35] Speaker A: We stayed a little bit later and just figured out what it was the night before. Yep. Showed up at 6am, told everybody. You know, obviously some of you are getting pushed to go to hair makeup. Some of you push to go to wardrobe. There is going to be a third section of time. And in that third second of time, instead of going to holding, please come to us. We're going to start teaching the choreo.
[00:37:54] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:37:54] Speaker A: And we literally, we were able to teach all the choreo, luckily, in chunks,
[00:37:57] Speaker B: in groups of people.
[00:37:58] Speaker A: Exactly. And luckily C was like, we're gonna push that to the second shoot day, so you guys will have some time to marinate on it.
[00:38:04] Speaker B: Oh, that's a gift.
[00:38:05] Speaker A: Everybody works. Worked together because everybody was able to put their artistic heart into the project
[00:38:13] Speaker B: and wants the project to be great
[00:38:14] Speaker A: and wants the project to be great
[00:38:15] Speaker B: and could see the objective. Could see the not great version. I do think it's tough, like when somebody is asking a change of me. Of course, now I've been on the other side so much that it's hard for me sometimes to be a dancer and really just turn off my brain and just take direction and do as I'm told. I'm oftentimes thinking of why, thinking of how. Thinking of how different. Thinking of how I would and I do when. When a big change is being made. My first question is like, why? Why do I have to. And. And when. You can see why it's so helpful. Yeah, that's a very cool approach. Like, we're all in this together. Let's have the same information. Yeah, let's have. Yeah, let's have our eyes on the same thing. I do think it's tough.
Information flows to dancers, usually on a need to know basis only. And that's often because things change so much that if you were constantly giving all dancers all information, all times, we burn out. So I understand why it is the way that it is. But in instances like this. Yes, please let me see the monitor. Please let me see what we're shooting. Please tell me if we're wide or close or how.
[00:39:26] Speaker A: Anything. Yeah, give me anything.
[00:39:28] Speaker B: Dancers are smart, dude.
[00:39:29] Speaker A: Oh, my gosh.
[00:39:30] Speaker B: And when we know what's happening and what we look like.
[00:39:33] Speaker A: Game over. We.
[00:39:34] Speaker B: Yeah, it's game over.
[00:39:35] Speaker A: You know, that was self correct award winning project that we worked on. And I genuinely think it's because we were able to, like, really see each other. Cool. I think also being the age that I am and getting to work on this side has been really cool because I am working with my friends. Yep. I'm working with people that I, you know, like, there are people that I met at 18 years old at Movement Lifestyle. And now here we are together on a set, you know, and so there's a part of it too that, like, I. I feel like, you know, there's.
There are certain choreographers who are older that are just a part of that different generation. And you can. I can feel that separation now for some reason when I'm in the room. And it, It's. I think it's just based on how they were raised and how they were trained. But being in the space and taking that leadership position, I can't help but be like, these are my friends. And I know that if my friend was on the other side, like, I would want to see the monitor. I would like to know that I look good and that we are making a successful something, you know, together.
That it just. It almost just feels like natural for me to just be like, no, no, no. This is what we're really here.
[00:40:46] Speaker B: Everybody have all the Information.
[00:40:47] Speaker A: You know, I do that on every job now, honestly, because.
[00:40:50] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:40:50] Speaker A: And I think that's a reason why, like, you know, our work comes out the way that it does. You know, when you really allow everybody
[00:40:57] Speaker B: to just, like, see the vision and be a part of it and be responsible for themselves and making it happen. Yeah. Yo, is there nothing better than making stuff with your friends?
Obsessed. It's so cool. What a gift. What a very cool gift. I'm so glad that you're. That you're swimming in that water right now.
[00:41:13] Speaker A: It's very cool. I feel just, like, so honored, too, to like, be in those spaces and to be, like, for my opinion to be trusted in those spaces again. Going back to, like, for so long in the assistant position, I was.
What it felt like was I felt like I was being taught that as an assistant, you are always a student,
[00:41:33] Speaker B: shut up, and do the work and learn.
[00:41:35] Speaker A: You know? And now I'm in this position where, like, Tyrique, you know, it's your actual job to help. Right.
[00:41:41] Speaker B: Right.
[00:41:42] Speaker A: And Tyreek and I are a year apart. Robbie and I. I'm two years older than Robbie.
[00:41:47] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:41:47] Speaker A: And I've known Robbie since we were little kids. He was. He won, like, a title at a convention that I was a pro assistant on work. And, you know, like, literally, we've known each other for over a decade now.
[00:41:57] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:41:58] Speaker A: So being there, like, I.
I just.
I.
Let me calm down. I. For a second.
[00:42:06] Speaker B: Just emotional. Yeah.
[00:42:09] Speaker A: Yeah. Like, I. I.
With Robbie outside of the dance room, I am the bossy older sister that has an opinion about everything.
Bless him like that. That sweet boy holds me down.
Yeah. Like, getting to be in these spaces where I'm, like, of service to help him make sure that he feels grounded, make sure that he feels like he's able to create in that environment.
It's just. It's so special because I. I'm now coming from a place of.
No, I. I do have knowledge, and I do have an opinion, and I will always learn something, because that is just life. But I'm not here to just learn and study and soak in anymore. I'm here to serve the vision that knows what they're doing, so.
[00:42:54] Speaker B: Oh, I love that. So that. That basically negates my next question, which is I am curious. You've worked on some of the biggest campaigns with some of the biggest stars of our time in the last couple years.
That Gap ad, that fucking on ad with Zendaya is so good.
Your super bowl spot that you are in that, by the Way was a good.
That was your first.
[00:43:18] Speaker A: That was the blonde moment. Yeah, yeah.
[00:43:20] Speaker B: Oh, okay. Phenomenal. That's the Spike moment.
Marie was selling a story. She was like, here I am, roots grown in and everything. I was like, I'm gonna go blonde it.
[00:43:28] Speaker A: You.
[00:43:28] Speaker B: And you told me the story of, like, the moment when you were like, it. I'm behind camera now.
[00:43:32] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:43:33] Speaker B: Was the moment when you started being on camera more. Right. Thanks to Spike, who's just like, hey, do you want to jump in casually?
[00:43:39] Speaker A: Gosh, Casually.
[00:43:41] Speaker B: Epic.
[00:43:42] Speaker A: He's so cool. And he's such a believer in the younger generation, for sure. Like, he's gone up to Robbie and been like, why aren't you directing? You know, like, he's so open, right?
[00:43:53] Speaker B: He loves. That's what not gay people gatekeeping looks like.
[00:43:56] Speaker A: It's been so, so special. Like, I have chills down my body just thinking about. Because we've worked on three different projects with him. We did a Gucci film with him. That was our, like, first time working with him. And then.
Then we got brought on. And it was funny because I guess Spike likes to do two jobs at once to just, like, keep things moving. So we worked on two projects with him at the same time, which was the on project and the super bowl commercial.
And so most of the time, we were, like, really working on the on project because we knew that it was
[00:44:30] Speaker B: just highly technical, needed to be rehearsed, needed to be. It needed time.
[00:44:35] Speaker A: And we were shooting in London. So then there was a layer of, like, we're not going to have the same dancers that we're using right now, so. And we're only going to have a certain amount of days to rehearse in London that, like, we need to have everything set in stone shot by shot. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But in the midst of that, he was also doing this Instacart thing. And again, like, I was just like, I know for the rest of the year at least, I'm not gonna have any dance jobs in front of the camera. If I hate the blonde. I have Christmas to grow it out. I have, you know, like, I'm just gonna. I'm just gonna try it and see what happens. And then, of course, like, in the midst of that Insta. Instacart themselves were like, oh, my God, Robbie Bluth's choreographing. We need dancers. And then Spike and his producer looked at me, and they were just like, any chance you want to just do it? And it's like, of course.
[00:45:23] Speaker B: That's so cool. But, yeah, and when you were talking about your drive to make it happen for yourself and get it done, and you're talking about this mentality that you had about, like, getting in there and doing the work, and that that worked for a second. Do you feel like the way it's working now is different?
[00:45:44] Speaker A: Yes, I think that actually now I feel like more work has come to me now that I've let go. You know, I really had this, like, really strong fist of, like, it was just tunnel vision. You know, I really thought I really wanted just this one goal. And actually, like, the moment that I was able to, like, let go and say, I can have all the goals. I can do whatever I want. I've literally been trained to do whatever I want. And it was my own ego that was like, but I want to do
[00:46:16] Speaker B: this one thing, you know?
[00:46:18] Speaker A: Yeah. That now that I'm in this state, it's. It's actually my favorite thing. Like, it's my favorite. I. And I'm also a Gemini, so I just. I love being able to do it all. You know, it's like I feel so inspired by being behind the camera, and then that inspires me to be in front of the camera, and then when I'm in front of the camera, I'm, like, watching everybody behind camera being like, oh, my God.
[00:46:39] Speaker B: I know.
[00:46:40] Speaker A: Talking about all these fun, special things, and I want to be a part of that. Like, I love being able to jump back and forth. And, you know, I think also with the training that I have the. I have the ability to literally just get thrown in, and that's.
[00:46:53] Speaker B: Or to be in two places at once.
[00:46:55] Speaker A: Exactly.
[00:46:55] Speaker B: What I'm hearing you say is like, the spike way of it is like, to literally be on two jobs at once.
[00:47:01] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:47:01] Speaker B: But the other way of thinking of it is your ability to be on camera makes you better at being behind camera, and your behind camera knowledge makes you better at being on camera. So it's not even necessarily when we're talking about this dichotomy of choreographer, dancer, which is false, by the way, because I really do think choreographers are dancers, and dancers can choreograph. And they're. I mean, I'm not trying to say that they are the same thing. They're obviously. I have so much riz. Hair.
[00:47:31] Speaker A: Take a moment. Take a beat.
[00:47:33] Speaker B: I'm not trying to say that they're the same thing, but I am trying to say that they are deeply, deeply connected.
[00:47:39] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:47:39] Speaker B: And, yes. You're.
[00:47:42] Speaker A: You're.
[00:47:42] Speaker B: You're getting better at one Makes you better at the other. And I think the more time you spend on set and maybe this also is true. I could probably copy paste that statement about being an associate and or assistant and the person actually in charge. I think being better, a better associate and a better assistant makes you better at leading and being a better leader helps you to. I'm an associate right now for the first time in a long time.
[00:48:07] Speaker A: Congrats.
[00:48:07] Speaker B: Thank you so much.
[00:48:08] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:48:09] Speaker B: To my dear friend Will Loftus. And I'm like, I love that you are fielding the questions, getting the treatments, doing the meetings, doing the things and that. I get to pop in on rehearsals, offer my thoughts and vision about this and experience of that and moves. Yeah, it really is awesome. And I will take with me.
I obviously carry with me all of the times that I've been in the leadership position and felt unsupported and I will support in that way. And I'll always be learning, period. Because that's life. I think we very much are aligned on that. Always learning, but really love to serve.
And when a vision is clear, like it sounds like Robbie's is and Will's is and I mean we came up under some super OGs. I love the way like, I love the way Mandy Moore leads clear ass vision.
[00:49:02] Speaker A: That is a choreographer that I'm like, I am obsessed with you.
Five. Five. I'm kidding. I'm really kidding.
[00:49:08] Speaker B: But I'm like, I was like, you know, like, you know what I mean?
[00:49:12] Speaker A: I'm like, I love her from afar.
[00:49:14] Speaker B: Yes, man. I think that the genrefication of dance is necessary, but baloney. A lot like commercial dancer, jazz, funk, house, this, that, like, yes. If you need to take a dance class and you want to get better at house, then go take a house class. But if you want to be a better dancer, dance in your house, please. If you want to be a better director, go direct a fucking thing that is in your mind and make it real. If you want to be a better assistant, tell your agent that you want to be assisting people. If you want to be better on camera, do a bunch of self tapes. I mean, I really am a big fan of making the work that you want to see in the world and making the work that you want to be better at. The Seaweed Sisters are a prime example. We wanted to be better at crowd work. We wanted to be better at live. And so we built ourself an 80 minute show where we have to be practicing that. And then we did it nine times. Yes. And we got better.
[00:50:17] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:50:17] Speaker B: And we Also, yeah, we learned a lot. So learning will. I love this message. Learning will happen no matter what.
[00:50:24] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:50:24] Speaker B: But if that's your only objective, you're missing a bigger opportunity to show up in a bigger way for yourself and for the project.
[00:50:32] Speaker A: I really feel like this last year I, you know, was really concentratedly working with Robbie, and again, there's this like, big sister, little brother dynamic that's at play at all times, which also comes into, like, I. There's this underlying love and adoration that we mutually have for each other and a level of self belief for each other. Oh, like siblings do, you know?
[00:51:01] Speaker B: Oh, my God. The way I believe in my sister is insane.
[00:51:03] Speaker A: Oh, absolutely.
[00:51:05] Speaker B: It's crazy.
[00:51:06] Speaker A: And I feel like he really pushed me because I also, you know, in the, with the pandemic, with everything, I felt like I lost a lot of confidence and just my natural light in performing.
And I. I felt that at first when he'd be like, can you be the stand in.
[00:51:23] Speaker B: I'd be like, oh, dim. I'm too dim. Dim.
[00:51:26] Speaker A: You know, like, I just, I didn't feel like I could be the stand in the way that, like, I don't know. I don't even know who I'm comparing myself to.
[00:51:34] Speaker B: Isn't that funny that your brain is like, reserving that for someone else and you can't even tell yourself who that other person is.
[00:51:39] Speaker A: Literally. Yeah. And. Yeah. And I was just like. It was one of those things where he was like, we don't have time to find this. Like, you have to believe in yourself because I believe in you. You know, like, it wasn't an actual conversation, but it was this. I could feel that this underlying conversation of him being like, no, I expect this from you because you.
Like, I know that he's looked up to me for years before this, you know, before all of this amazing career has blossomed. Like, for a long time, it was like just being in class with him and, you know, both of us being like, I look up to you, I look up to you. I look up to you.
[00:52:10] Speaker B: You know, so it's been said and it's been shown. Yes.
[00:52:15] Speaker A: And I had to, like, find that within myself. So just like another layer into the learning. Like, it wasn't for me, it was also finding this level of like, no, I can. I am able. Like, I. I've known based on the facts of what my training has been for all these years, but now it's like, really in my body that I know I can. And I think that that knowing mixed with Strong work ethic is what allows me to jump. Nice thing to think.
[00:52:47] Speaker B: Nice.
[00:52:47] Speaker A: Where it's like, no, I can be in front of camera now.
[00:52:50] Speaker B: Nice.
[00:52:50] Speaker A: No, I can be behind camera.
[00:52:51] Speaker B: Nice.
[00:52:51] Speaker A: No, I can be both.
[00:52:53] Speaker B: I see in you right now two superpowers.
[00:52:55] Speaker A: You ready for it?
[00:52:56] Speaker B: That knowing of self, number one and number two, the knowing of when. It's not about self and it's about team. Other people.
[00:53:05] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:53:05] Speaker B: Because really great leaders know when to do each of those things. Know when, like, okay, this is about me and my showing up and my being bright and my holding space and creating a moment and whatever.
[00:53:20] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:53:20] Speaker B: But other times, it's about seeing other people.
[00:53:23] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:53:24] Speaker B: And showing other people or delegating to other people some permission if we want to circle it back.
[00:53:30] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:53:31] Speaker B: Or showing them they don't need it. And I. I really think that is why you stay.
[00:53:37] Speaker A: Thank goodness. Yeah. You know, and it's not perfect. It's.
[00:53:40] Speaker B: It's like a constant work in progress and balance and reading and temperature checking always. But your ability to. To do both and to know that there's more, then just those two things is awesome.
What else was just gonna say. Oh, I wanted to circle back to your thought.
This thought about being a substitute. That stays. I.
Mm.
[00:54:04] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:54:04] Speaker B: If that is working for you, stick it out. I love being a pinch hitter. I got hired to do a couple numbers for Dancing with a Stars tour a couple years ago because they were like, we're literally going on tour, and we don't have all the numbers we need. Can you come in and set two numbers in a day?
[00:54:20] Speaker A: Cool.
[00:54:20] Speaker B: And I was like, first thought pants pooping. No, absolutely not. I need three days to prep each number. These are the best dancers in the world.
[00:54:29] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:54:30] Speaker B: I'm like, the references for these numbers is, like, some of the greatest work that there's ever been. Totally. And, like, one of them was Grease. And I'm like, yeah, I'm just gonna casually come in and do.
[00:54:40] Speaker A: Right.
[00:54:41] Speaker B: Grease. That's been done a thousand times. What do I have to make it better? Whatever. All the. All the things. But my answer was yes. And I love pinch hitting. I love over delivering under time.
And so that's what I made it about is like, oh, no, no, just go do your favorite thing, which is to over deliver under time.
[00:55:00] Speaker A: Great.
[00:55:01] Speaker B: And then I did, and it felt great. So I like being a sub, but it sounds like you might be making substitute means second.
And there's first substitute. Like, you're like your first substitute. Yeah.
Substitute just means that you are not the faculty member already.
[00:55:21] Speaker A: Sure.
[00:55:22] Speaker B: And if you wanted to be the faculty member, then maybe you would have been, but I think you've been out doing other things.
[00:55:29] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:55:29] Speaker B: And in spaces that you want to be. So finding yourself on the substitute list, especially as First Sub Institute.
[00:55:35] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:55:36] Speaker B: Is like, awesome and cool. Oh, my God. I'm just realizing I've had this moment.
In 2009, question mark. I was Wade Robson's assistant on a Cirque du Soleil show called Believe.
And when he called me, it was amazing. He was like, hey, I'm doing this show, which I had auditioned for and I did book it, but I. I turned it down because at the time I was freshly off of tour with Justin Timberlake and I. The rate for creation is really low. The Cirque contract, I think over a long period of time, winds up being worth it.
[00:56:18] Speaker A: Totally.
[00:56:19] Speaker B: Especially people with families, especially people on green cards. I mean, there's a lot of reasons why that's a sweet gig, but at the time, it was not right for me. So I passed on it. And then I get a call from freaking Wade Robson, who, like, dance crush number one for 100 of my life. So Wade calls me and he's like, hey, I'm looking for an assistant for the. The Cirque show.
And I asked so and so and they. They couldn't do it, but they said your name.
And then I asked someone else and they also said no and they also said your name.
And so I was number two substitute double.
Well done, Number two Sub. But it means a lot to me to be recommended.
[00:57:03] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:57:04] Speaker B: And I don't at all have a problem with being number three, especially in a person's world who I had not a ton of orbit with. So I get like, if. If my number one best friend didn't have me as their number one, that might be weird. But if there are people in your orbit who's.
Do you understand what I'm saying? Absolutely.
[00:57:28] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:57:28] Speaker B: You not being first, I don't think is weird at all. You can't be first on everyone's list.
[00:57:33] Speaker A: No.
[00:57:33] Speaker B: Because you've been out there being first in your own life.
[00:57:36] Speaker A: Absolutely. And as time has gone on, it's. Honestly, I'm. I'm to a place now where, like, I actually don't want to be latched down to one team. Right. You know, like, even with.
[00:57:46] Speaker B: Give me flexibility, I wanna.
[00:57:49] Speaker A: I wanna do it all. I'm not done with my career too. I've. I don't even know what my career is at this point.
[00:57:54] Speaker B: Like, that was my next question.
[00:57:56] Speaker A: I'm stoked. I'm like, I'm literally going to an acting class after this. Yes, you are. Like, I'm just in a.
Like, trying to, like, even with Robbie, and I have so much love for Robbie, but, like. Yeah, there's not every job I don't want to do every job that he's doing.
[00:58:12] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:58:12] Speaker A: And I love that he has those jobs. I think they're fucking cool. I know that everything that he's going to create is going to be fucking fabulous.
[00:58:19] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:58:20] Speaker A: But also, like, that's not entirely where my goals are. It's not where I'm driven. And luckily, because we have such a close relationship, I can say, no, thank you, and be able to venture to
[00:58:30] Speaker B: the next and know that that won't mean I hate you.
[00:58:32] Speaker A: No.
[00:58:33] Speaker B: Or never again.
[00:58:34] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:58:35] Speaker B: I love. That's another thing I'm. I'm picking up from what you're. From what you're putting down is how okay it is to change your mind about something. Like, you could decide, I'm no longer assisting, and later change your mind.
[00:58:47] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:58:47] Speaker B: And I happen to know about you, that you also quit dance at one point and changed your mind. Sure. And you decided to go to school and then change your mind. Like, I.
It is so okay to change your mind, y'. All. And most people are very flexible with that. A lot of people don't even know that you changed your mind. They just. It's just all in you.
[00:59:06] Speaker A: Yeah. Most people don't.
[00:59:07] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:59:07] Speaker A: Really. It's really all like.
[00:59:09] Speaker B: I didn't know you stepped away from dance. Yeah, this. The. The chapter.
The COVID chapter. I didn't. I did not know about.
[00:59:16] Speaker A: Oh, yeah.
[00:59:17] Speaker B: But I do think most of us stepped away from dance because dance stepped away, you know? But anyways, I. Yeah. Not to belabor the pandemic of it all, but.
[00:59:26] Speaker A: No, we were all going through it. Yeah. This is just my specific way of going through it, you know?
[00:59:32] Speaker B: Yeah. But I love. I love that you have examples of your life of committing to a decision and then changing your mind and that being totally okay.
[00:59:42] Speaker A: You know, I think during it really was, like, not okay. It was like life shattering. Yeah. Oh, my God.
[00:59:48] Speaker B: It always feels like that.
[00:59:50] Speaker A: You know, but that's actually something that I've learned from Erica is like learning the.
That you need to be 100 devoted, and you also need to have a real good sex.
[01:00:01] Speaker B: 100% sex. I just said sex ability, sex appeal.
You need to be 100% dedicated, and you need to be 100% sexy.
[01:00:12] Speaker A: You don't make the rules.
[01:00:13] Speaker B: Otherwise, what are you doing here? We don't make the rules, we just follow them. Obviously.
Okay. Also because we said it. Flexible, not sexable. Flexible being. This is another thing. Having your professional shit down helps you to be flexible. Copy paste in all areas of life.
Having a great financial plan and then changing your mind. Having a great, like, sketch. Like, really, the schedule is down. I've decided that 8:15, I'm gonna be here and happens to be 8:45 and also flexible. Okay. We could.
[01:00:45] Speaker A: I.
[01:00:45] Speaker B: We can talk forever.
[01:00:46] Speaker A: I know.
[01:00:47] Speaker B: Final question.
[01:00:48] Speaker A: Okay.
[01:00:49] Speaker B: Words that move you. A quote, a mantra, a North Star, a guiding principle, a something that you're on right now.
[01:00:57] Speaker A: Yes.
My. One of my mentors, Ambrose Raspiccio. Yes.
Just the best.
[01:01:04] Speaker B: Big love, Ambrose.
[01:01:06] Speaker A: Like has been there for me since I was a teenager.
When I moved out to la. Was the first person to be like, you're wearing pajamas to class. Stop that. Try to find your personality. Here are recommendations of women that are awesome and are, you know, like. Like, they were the first person to. They used to style. My headshots for me were also in the pandemic. I was trying to make money anyway, and so I started to assist them. Styling.
[01:01:36] Speaker B: Nice.
[01:01:36] Speaker A: And they put me onto this job where they were like, I actually can't be there. You're gonna be on your own. It's gonna be a big thing. But just call me. I got you. And at the end of it, I called them and I was just like, I did it. It happened. It was like, so overwhelming.
[01:01:50] Speaker B: So much catharsis. So clean. Good, clean feelings.
[01:01:53] Speaker A: Good, clean feelings. And they were like, marie, you are a multifaceted artist that is capable of anything that comes your way. Yeah.
That is the mantra at the end. Period. The end.
[01:02:05] Speaker B: You are capable of all of it.
[01:02:06] Speaker A: All that encompasses, like, I am.
[01:02:09] Speaker B: I.
[01:02:09] Speaker A: You are capable of doing anything that you want to do. And that, like, that's my bio in my Instagram, is just. I'm a multifaceted artist that is capable of encompassing all that comes my way.
You know, that's all I need. And however that looks, whether that is in dance, choreo acting, any type of storytelling, any type of art, like, I'm gonna show up as myself, with my work ethic, with my opinion.
[01:02:33] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:02:34] Speaker A: And with my heart, and we're gonna see how it goes. And, yeah, that's. That's my mantra.
[01:02:39] Speaker B: I can't think of a better place to end it. Even though I would, could, should talk to you. For hours on end. Thank you for sharing that. And you, listener, viewer, get out there and find you a friend that will give you a sentence that you can put in your Instagram bio about yourself. Like when. When somebody can tell you a thing about you that becomes your actual slug line. That's a great friend coming for you. Ambrose.
[01:03:02] Speaker A: Oh my God.
[01:03:02] Speaker B: Big love. Big love to Ambrose and you and Robbie and Tyrique and Mandy Moore and everyone mentioned in this episode.
Really appreciate your willingness to share your story and you're just a star in my eyes. I love watching all that you're up to. It's a treat to get and talk shop with you. Let's do this more often.
Pretty please and thank you listener, viewer, also for talking shop with us.
[01:03:28] Speaker A: Although you were silent, we heard your opinions.
[01:03:32] Speaker B: We heard your opinions. Okay Leave a Reviewer Rating Click the bell for notifications. Please leave a comment Share the podcast with people that you love, especially if you love it. But mostly get out into the world and keep it very funky. I'll talk to you later. Bye.
Dance is produced by me with the help of many Big, big, big, big love to our Executive assistant and editor, Riley Higgins. Music is by Max Winnie Logo and brand design by Bri Reitz. Our communications team consists of Ori Vajadares and Sydney Richardson, and we've got extra help from LMU Internet Carly Clayton. If you're digging the podcast, please leave a review or rating. Also, if you want to connect with me and the many marvelous members of the Words that Move Me community, visit danceplus podcast.com if you're curious to know more about me and all the stuff I do outside of the podcast, visit the Dana Wilson dot com.
