Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Sometimes I watch myself and I think maybe I'm doing a little too much.
[00:00:03] Speaker B: But I think it all the time.
[00:00:04] Speaker A: It never feels. It never feels like I'm doing anything.
Like I'm not trying to do anything. It just. I think I'm a naturally expressive person. My face just does right.
[00:00:15] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:00:16] Speaker A: And I'll watch things back and be
[00:00:17] Speaker B: like, ooh, I'm doing a lot.
[00:00:19] Speaker A: I'm doing too much. I'm doing a lot.
[00:00:20] Speaker B: But I'm experiencing my feelings with my face. Yes.
Hello, my friend. What? Welcome. Good day or evening to you. My dog is licking my shins, which means it's dinner time. She's like, mom, we've got her. Her face is fully up my very wide leg. Bell, bottom, pants right now. Listener, viewer, or sorry if. If you are on listen only, it might be worth just like popping over to YouTube to check that out. Well, now she's not doing it anymore.
Briz. So sassy. Welcome to the podcast. I hope you're crushing it. I have the crushing it of guests on the podcast today. Karen Chuang is a bright and shining example of what is possible when you lean into your interests, regardless of genre, regardless of output medium. Like, this is truly what happens when you follow the dance that sparks you versus following the dance that you should be doing. I have nothing but good things to say about this person and I cannot wait to shower them with flowers in front of you. But first, let's do some wins.
Today I am celebrating two completely days off. Okay, well, I did have some Zoom meetings. Oh, here's what I'm celebrating. Here's what I'm celebrating. Here's what I'm. So here's my win. I fell asleep on my couch recently. I let myself relax so hard that I fell asleep and slept for an amount of time, not the whole night, but for a great length of hours. Slept on my couch, you guys. That's how relaxed I let my myself get this past weekend.
Tucks, hair behind ears. Like I just accomplished something really hard. But man, man, for a hyper doer such as myself not doing at that level, that that is. That's a win.
Cheering me on. Okay, how about you? What's going well in your.
Yay.
Congratulations. I'm thrilled for you and I'm glad that you're winning and I'm so excited. So glad to be sharing this episode with Karen Schwang.
We talk about dance education and the moments that really, really shape our lives. All right, I think that was not my favorite intro that I've ever done. And she's one of my favorite people. So this is tough, but we've got to let it rip. We're taking the band aid off. I'm letting you have it. This is the one, the only Karen Schwong.
That was Karen's perfect bangs. I just did the dance. This is the dance I did that tried to show you that I had super short bangs and that they were growing out. Because when Karen walked in the door today, she gave me a compliment on my haircut, and I was like, oh, my God, thank you. And then I talked about my hair, and then I was like, well, Karen, you have incredible bangs. And she was like, I have never received a compliment on my hair. I was like, you've got to stop it right now. You have perfect hair. And she's like, well, I wish it was curly. And then we get into the grass is always greener conversation. And now we're. And now I just want to normalize that we compliment people's hair. Okay? It's cool to be like, hey, I really like your hair, or I like what you've done with your hair. That's even better. Because that gives the ownership back to the person.
We are not needing to talk about people having gained weight or lost weight, but we can definitely be talking about hair.
I gave Rylee a really sincere compliment on her French braid the other day, and guess what? It looked fantastic. And how did you feel when I told you your hair looked great? You felt good, right? All right, pause the episode right now. Go give someone a compliment on their hair and then come right back for the one and only Karen Schwong.
You are too freaking cute on Earth Day.
[00:04:11] Speaker A: Somehow, Karen, it is really meant to be.
[00:04:15] Speaker B: Welcome. Welcome to the podcast. Welcome to my house and my longtime friend and a person that I have admired and championed from a distance for very long. Welcome to the podcast. I'm so glad you have you.
[00:04:26] Speaker A: Thank you, Dana. So happy to be here.
[00:04:32] Speaker B: We.
We could talk for a very long time, even about non dance things, I think you and I. But I do have a handful of questions for my listener viewer out there who is set on genrefication and categorizing life paths and dance types and things. You are just such a bright, shining example of somebody who has.
This is my interpretive dance first stretched the mold. I won't say break the mold because I don't see you as being a rebel in that way. I don't think it was ever your intention to be like, I'm gonna show the world that you can Be a contemporary cat on tour with big pop stars and shit. I don't. But you have created beautiful space for yourself in the entertainment industry, and so. Oh, wait, I didn't have Jackie or Cloud introduce themselves.
[00:05:32] Speaker A: Opportunity for them to come back.
[00:05:34] Speaker B: Totally. Thank you for that.
Oh, my God, yes. That's actually better. That's way better.
Also, maybe we don't need to ever do that again.
Okay, cool. But just in case we don't want to drop it.
Anyways, that's what I think about you.
Now, it's tradition on the podcast for you to introduce yourself, tell the listener, viewer, anything you want them to know about you before we go into this conversation.
[00:06:01] Speaker A: Oh, thank you, Dana. Well, first, I just want to acknowledge what you said. I'm so flattered. I've never thought of myself in that way, and it's amazing to hear you,
[00:06:09] Speaker B: to hear about yourself through the eyes of other people.
[00:06:11] Speaker A: Oh, my gosh. I'm so flattered. I feel.
Yeah. Very emotional about that. So thank you.
[00:06:19] Speaker B: You're welcome. And also, you let me know anytime you need somebody to encourage you and sing your praises, because I really am full of that.
[00:06:28] Speaker A: Thank you.
[00:06:29] Speaker B: Back to you.
[00:06:30] Speaker A: Back to me. Okay. A introduction, you said. Yeah, absolutely. Okay. This is fun. You know, I have been practicing this. Good, good. In anticipation of doing this. Okay. So let's see what happens. Yeah, don't rush.
[00:06:42] Speaker B: Just don't rush.
[00:06:43] Speaker A: Okay. I got to stay calm.
Got to stay grounded.
[00:06:46] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:06:47] Speaker A: Hi, everybody. My name is Karen Chuang. I am a Taiwanese American, daughter of immigrants, born and raised in the San Francisco Bay area.
In my professional life, I am a freelance dancer, choreographer, and educator.
And in my personal life, I am a little sister, an auntie, a daughter, a friend, a partner, and I aspire to do good in the world.
[00:07:17] Speaker B: Karen, that was a beautiful introduction. How did I do? Or you wasn't too slow? That was truly, actually perfect. We'll run that for Jackie's, and for Clouds, we'll play yours.
[00:07:27] Speaker A: Just sub out the name.
[00:07:29] Speaker B: So funny.
[00:07:29] Speaker A: I feel like it's. Yeah.
[00:07:30] Speaker B: I don't know why my entry point right now wants to be auntie. Do you love being an auntie? Is it your favorite hat to wear?
[00:07:36] Speaker A: It's just most incredible. The most incredible feeling and sensation in the world because I feel like my nephews. I have three nephews. No, nieces. Three nephews.
[00:07:46] Speaker B: Interesting.
[00:07:47] Speaker A: It's been a really fun roller coaster riot.
[00:07:50] Speaker B: But are they very energetic? They like to, like. Like, Route roundhouse. What is it? What is it?
[00:07:56] Speaker A: Rowdy? Rough house.
[00:07:57] Speaker B: Rough house.
[00:07:59] Speaker A: Which house is it?
[00:07:59] Speaker B: Are they roundhousers?
[00:08:01] Speaker A: The townhouse.
[00:08:01] Speaker B: Rowdy townhouse.
Wow. Really out of touch. Carry on.
[00:08:05] Speaker A: No, no, they are. But they're also such markers of time. My oldest nephew.
[00:08:09] Speaker B: That's true.
[00:08:10] Speaker A: Well said. Oldest nephew is ten.
[00:08:12] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:08:13] Speaker A: Middle nephew is eight. My youngest nephew is three. Turning four. And they're such angels. They're just the perfect angels. And it's also for me, I think
[00:08:23] Speaker B: you're saying that because you're their aunt, not their mom.
But with all due respect, yeah. They might be angels though because you're pretty angelic. And if you. If the family tree, if the apple doesn't fall for it, then maybe they are true angels.
[00:08:38] Speaker A: Oh, man.
[00:08:38] Speaker B: My. My nieces are sometimes angels.
[00:08:41] Speaker A: I like that. Sounds like a band name.
[00:08:43] Speaker B: Sometimes Angels.
Band of nieces, Sometimes Angels and nephews. That's the album, that album title.
[00:08:49] Speaker A: Love that.
[00:08:49] Speaker B: Yeah. Okay, so they're great. Sorry I cut you off.
[00:08:51] Speaker A: Incredible. No, they're incredible. And I think. I think it's a lot to do with the parenting.
[00:08:55] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:08:55] Speaker A: I think my brother and sister in law do an amazing job creating the framework for them to be really good people and to show up. Yeah. In a way that feels emotionally intelligent. Already cool at their young age.
[00:09:06] Speaker B: Talking about feelings and stuff.
[00:09:08] Speaker A: Oh man. All the time. Very patient and disciplined with each other. Taking turns talking about stuff like that. Love. It's remarkable. Yeah. And it makes me curious.
[00:09:18] Speaker B: Do they want to come on the podcast?
[00:09:20] Speaker A: I will ask them.
[00:09:21] Speaker B: I will have them.
[00:09:23] Speaker A: They would be the best.
[00:09:24] Speaker B: I feel like I like that you said markers of time. I remember my life sometimes in trips home. Oh, that was the. That was when we went to this. Or that was when we did Disney and oh, her son. Seventh birthday was when. Blah, blah, blah. It's like in a world like ours where very little is regular and nothing is consistent. Like I don't show up to the same job all the time. There are very few things that are like defining and marking of time and trips home is definitely one their birthdays, which I forgot both of this year. Whoops. That's okay. New low. I hit a new low. And it's just. We're going to fly high from here on out.
But yeah, I have a 12 and I have an 8. So kind of tracking in alignment there. I'm glad that you're involved in your nephew's lives. What a cool. Are you. Do they see you as being super cool auntie or are they totally unimpressed with all your accolades?
[00:10:20] Speaker A: I don't know. I've Never. I've never asked them. I think they're genuinely happy to see me, but I don't think that's a. A response to, like, success in career. I think it's just a response to being family to them and, you know, being connected to them in a way that's meaningful in. In terms of that relationship other than. Rather than it being, you know, seeing me in these particular worlds and. Yeah. Making a decision.
[00:10:47] Speaker B: But do you guys ever make up dances together?
[00:10:50] Speaker A: I. I have yet to do that. I think my middle nephew was really obsessed with K Pop Demon Hunters, and we did dance the soda pop together, and then he was also obsessed with Taylor Swift.
[00:11:08] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:11:08] Speaker A: So we did do some dance moves, some actual choreography.
[00:11:12] Speaker B: That's cool.
[00:11:13] Speaker A: It was very cool.
Okay.
[00:11:16] Speaker B: Niece's nephew's auntie. Check, check.
Will you talk a little bit about your meet cute with dance? How you began your relationship with dance?
[00:11:27] Speaker A: That's a great question.
I feel like my meet cute began when I was young and my mom had a VHS of the Nutcracker. And I don't know which ballet company or which company was performing the Nutcracker, but I remember watching it and being really struck by what I saw and really wanting to replicate what they were doing.
[00:11:52] Speaker B: All of. Were you drawn to one or another role or.
[00:11:56] Speaker A: And I don't know if this is like, a outcome of me having watched Nutcracker, like, more recently, but I definitely, obviously remember Clara. I remember the Rat King or the mouse. The Mouse king. Rat king. Yeah.
[00:12:10] Speaker B: Yo.
[00:12:10] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:12:11] Speaker B: Drosselmeyer.
[00:12:12] Speaker A: Oh, man.
[00:12:13] Speaker B: Darkness. Give me a cake. I need there to be cakes.
Okay, carry on.
[00:12:17] Speaker A: Yeah. And I think that was what drew me into dance. That performance. And my mom grabbed a phone book, which was, you know, how we discovered businesses at the time.
[00:12:28] Speaker B: Yellow pages or white Pages? If it was businesses. Yellow pages were residential. I think white pages were business.
[00:12:34] Speaker A: Must have been the white pages then.
[00:12:36] Speaker B: That's how old I am curious. We're back.
[00:12:39] Speaker A: Yeah, back to the 20s.
[00:12:42] Speaker B: And that's how you found a studio?
[00:12:43] Speaker A: My mom, she. She flipped open the white pages and I think looked for the first studio that she found in the area, and it was Dance Attack in Mountain View. Yeah. Da. And enrolled me in classes there. And I distinctly remember, actually, funny enough, we didn't. I didn't own a leotard in my first dance lesson, and. But my parents thought that a leotard was the same thing as a bathing suit, and so I wore a bathing suit.
[00:13:10] Speaker B: Dance class. You were a seaweed sibling even then?
Yeah. Oh, Karen. That's amazing.
Also super Shout out some other Dance Attack homies. They. They really crank the dancers out. Oh, yeah, there's that studio creates a legacy.
[00:13:24] Speaker A: Very. Yeah. Sue Lehner was the director of that program, and she went on to also direct other programs within the Bay Area, but started off at Dance Attack.
But name, namely, like, Reed Tankersley, Anthony Lamolho, Dominique Lamoho. His sister.
[00:13:40] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:13:41] Speaker A: Yeah. A lot of incredible people came from that program.
[00:13:44] Speaker B: So good.
Cindy Salgado. Did she come through that program or did she just teach? I think she might have just taught there.
[00:13:50] Speaker A: Cindy Salgado definitely is from the Bay Area. I think she trained more at a studio called Dance Academy usa.
[00:13:57] Speaker B: Oh, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Okay. I misplaced her in my.
[00:14:00] Speaker A: No, but she's definitely Bay Area cat. And she was actually a big motivator and influence in my young dance life. Dance life.
[00:14:08] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:14:08] Speaker A: She choreographed my senior solo, Shut it Down.
[00:14:11] Speaker B: What was it to?
[00:14:12] Speaker A: It was a instrumental song, for sure. It was like. I think it was called Fajar Kanistan or something. It was like.
[00:14:20] Speaker B: It was one of those that the MC has to radio backstage for the pronunciation.
[00:14:25] Speaker A: Lots of. Lots of. What is those. Not vowels, but the other ones. Consonants.
[00:14:29] Speaker B: Yes, Lots of consonants. We don't know what to do without with all these consonants. Yeah.
[00:14:32] Speaker A: It must have been, like, Norwegian or something. But amazing. I think she was at the time a student at Juilliard and would come back and set work for Teen Dance Company, which was the company I was a part of in my later years. And through that, choreographed my. My senior solo. And she was a huge influence on. On my understanding and perspective of dance
[00:14:54] Speaker B: and dance with purpose. Dance other than dance being about something other than itself.
I think one thing Cindy does well is dance with a message, and it's not always rewarded in competitive dance spaces. But I got to sit in on. She and I both teach for nycda. We were out last weekend in Provo, Utah, and I covered a few of her classes because she was not feeling well and she was able to teach. The second day I went in, just, like, check on her and, like, give a wave. And she was saying, okay, I want you to think before we. Before we go around again. I want you to think about what your purpose is. What do you care about more than you care about yourself?
What is the cause that you want to pour into?
Do this round for that cause, and then the next round I want you to do. I want you to dance it for what pours into you.
Like, is it family? Is it a higher power Is it a sense of, like, physical sensation in your body? But this pass will dance for your cause. And the next time we dance, we'll. We'll dance for what causes you to go. And I was like, wow, thank you for introducing the concept of dance for a reason other than performance, period.
And then the idea of, of things being things that are bigger than you being something that you can feed versus something that you only feed from.
I think that was an important thing. So. No, no, no. End of learning from Cindy Salgado. She also has danced my ass under the fucking table at clubs at three in the morning.
[00:16:43] Speaker A: Remarkable.
[00:16:44] Speaker B: Like house clubs. Like, she. Oh, it's incredible. What a gift.
[00:16:48] Speaker A: She's an insanely talented human being.
[00:16:51] Speaker B: So, so thoughtful. So good. So, yeah, she's got to come on the pod.
[00:16:54] Speaker A: Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. She. I mean, the program that I was a part of, and she was definitely a big influence for me during that time, but the program itself too. I think what you're saying about Cindy really resonates with me because I think I was so ex. I was exposed to so much in terms of all the different communities of dance at a young age.
I would say teenage years young.
And I think what you're saying about, you know, dance for performance is, is something that we. I didn't have the language at the time, but that was, you know, commercial work. It was that. That sense of, like, performance energy and that relationship to being crowd pleasing.
[00:17:35] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:17:36] Speaker A: And I think I. I definitely learned that through conventions, through other teachers. But the program I was in was also so much like modern ballet, also concert dance driven. And we brought in people like Cindy to expose us to critical inquiry within dance that I think at the time would really land with some people.
And for me, for me, when I was younger, just the best.
[00:18:05] Speaker B: Cozy now.
[00:18:06] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:18:07] Speaker B: Oh, the best.
[00:18:09] Speaker A: For me when I was younger, I think I had a curiosity in it, but. But I didn't have enough understanding of myself to answer those questions really honestly.
The questions of what pours into you and what do you want to pour into?
[00:18:26] Speaker B: Yeah, and what are you pouring into?
[00:18:27] Speaker A: And so I think having exposure to that was really important, but I don't think I really started understanding dance as a channel or a conduit for it until, you know, the last maybe five, ten years when I sort of matured into a young adult, into now adulthood. So, yeah, it's really amazing to look back and recognize that people like Cindy.
[00:18:50] Speaker B: That seed was planted when I was 13. I didn't know what it meant, but now I Do. Yeah, yeah. I definitely was looking around the room like, is this landing? Are you receiving this fucking brilliance right now?
[00:19:00] Speaker A: Yeah, but that's what's fun about convention, right? Is it just has to land on one.
One person.
[00:19:06] Speaker B: Whenever you're ready. Yeah, I will tell. Oh, my God. I will talk forever. Obviously. Literally have a podcast you can play at any time.
And if one thing lands for one person, it will have been for good.
Good reason.
[00:19:21] Speaker A: It's enough.
[00:19:21] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Cindy is an epic presence in that way that. In that she will teach a lesson without having to, without preach teaching or without forcing it. She's just offering. I'm just offering. And what sticks will stick, and anything that doesn't, later on in life, you will remember because it turns out it did actually stick. And you're gonna be like, wow, my dad said that.
[00:19:45] Speaker A: Exactly.
[00:19:47] Speaker B: There are great dancers in the Bay Area and in the South Bay area in particular, it does not surprise me at all that you hail from this region.
So, okay, so it sounds like early on you had kind of an awareness, at least of different dance spaces. You mentioned the performative, competitive space as being noticeably different than what, how you treated concert type, the company that you were on and the. Was it you called it Teen Company? Is that what it was?
[00:20:17] Speaker A: Teen Dance Company.
[00:20:18] Speaker B: Teen Dance Company. Okay.
So were those really different in your mind, or was dance just dance and you're dancing when and where you can, how and when you can.
[00:20:28] Speaker A: I think this question brings up another really pertinent part of my childhood as well, which was training under Chris Jacobson and Sonia Taya at the Dance Company of San Francisco.
And I bring them up because Chris, I think, was really paramount to introducing me to modern technique at a young age. Cool. And introducing me to quality over quantity.
And I think it relates to your question because when, when we would go to competitions, you would see, you know, other studios performing these mind blowing turns and legs and trick. Yes. Which so, so, so impressive. But we weren't doing that kind of dancing or that style of choreography. And Chris really embedded in us the importance of artistry and the importance of movement, quality and storytelling beyond these physical feats. Yeah, they have their place and they are special, but they don't necessarily need to show up in every single dance. And there's like a small sliver of me that like, wishes I could do something cool, you know, like some powerhouse trick. But I also think that they, as teachers were so dedicated to showing me that dance.
Dance was a multitude of things. Dance wasn't just this or that or, you know, all these categories. It was a spread of things, and you. You can learn all the things and then choose when to, you know, put on what Doy. This or that. Yeah.
[00:22:01] Speaker B: A lot of restraint. I feel like it's so funny. Chris paired with Esonya, who I do see as being full throttle dance, but less so in the performative, you know, entertainment driven. The gag. The gag of it. But like, more.
More like the Olympics. Right. Like, nobody has to do the Olympics.
[00:22:22] Speaker A: Right.
[00:22:23] Speaker B: Just like nobody has to do Sonia's choreography.
You do it because you are compelled to, because it's important, because it feels life or death in some way. And if you don't have that attitude about it, you probably won't be able to pull it off.
[00:22:38] Speaker A: Oh, yeah.
[00:22:39] Speaker B: So that paired with this idea of restraint and quality and choice of when on and when in or off, that seems like that was introduced to you early, and it does feel like it was introduced to you. Well, because it feels very apparent in the way that you dance now. But also you're choreographing. You are now an educator yourself out on those conventions that, you know, that our peers and our heroes like Cindy are out doing the work.
I. There's no end to that sentence. I'm just. It just feels so full circle.
[00:23:17] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:23:18] Speaker B: That you are getting to teach what you learned early on, but what you practiced and are still practicing as a performer. But you, like, okay, learn this as student.
Practice it as professional.
Maybe probably make some little tiny tweaks as you learn, like, in the workforce. Okay. This is different. And this actually, I think, is an itch that I want to scratch. And I don't think anybody's really said it this way before. I think this would be useful.
And now you're teaching.
[00:23:44] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:23:45] Speaker B: Is that a terribly distilled chronology of your dance life?
[00:23:50] Speaker A: It is perfectly distilled. Yeah. Perfectly distilled. I love the way you put it, too, because what that brought up for me was thinking about, what are the things I'm emphasizing now as a teacher? Yeah. I think I've been teaching for Hollywood Vibe for this is my 11th season. Season, which is like, go get them, Kara. They're so lucky to have you. Oh, thank you. Yeah. I'm lucky to be.
[00:24:10] Speaker B: And you're lucky to have them. I feel the same. Yeah.
[00:24:12] Speaker A: Oh, man. But it's like, what am I trying to focus on as an educator? And I found that in the beginning, it was very different from what I'm focusing on currently.
[00:24:22] Speaker B: Okay, what was it then?
[00:24:24] Speaker A: I think as A young teacher, I didn't have a sense of exactly sort of like the theoretical components of my physical practice and my physical teaching. Okay. If I reflect on it now, I think it was definitely musicality and sort of like a.
[00:24:39] Speaker B: Like a moves meet music.
[00:24:41] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That intersection slightly informed by hip hop and my relationship to that genre and my relationship to contemporary.
But I have distilled it down in the last couple years to thinking about movement quality and how to really physicalize and encapsulate the sounds that you hear, either through instrumentation or through a vocal execution and connecting it with things like effort, flow, time.
You know, these effort qualities that.
[00:25:19] Speaker B: Are you a Laban fan? I. Oh, I saw it coming about a mile away. Yes, yes, yes.
[00:25:25] Speaker A: Okay. So cool. I actually, yeah, I discovered Lab on effort qualities throughout through Marissa Osado and Will Johnston.
I mean, just the best. The best, Just the best.
[00:25:35] Speaker B: Marisa also should come on the podcast.
[00:25:37] Speaker A: Yes. She would be an amazing guest.
[00:25:39] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:25:40] Speaker A: Yeah.
But she talked about it and I've never had formal academic education in dance. I've had embodied practice and studio training and then, you know, lived experience through professional work. But I've never studied dance in that, like, academic way. And so Marissa had taught this idea in an entity intensive one summer, and it just stuck with me ever since. And I started being really particular about how I describe emotions like aggression versus longing versus desperation and how each of those emotions have a flow and a weight and a time. And there's these dials that you turn in order to really embody these things. And for young dancers, I'm sure, as you know, they always. I feel like, connect with the music first because. Yeah, it's just. It's something that is.
[00:26:40] Speaker B: It's human. It's hardwired. Music happen, movement, go.
[00:26:43] Speaker A: Yeah, so sometimes it's like. For me, what's been really interesting is sort of teaching the actions and then having them dance it to music and then fine tuning execution, because now that they know what it sounds like, they have a reference point for how deep the bass is, how. How much inflection is in that voice.
[00:27:05] Speaker B: Like, it.
[00:27:06] Speaker A: It really, for me has been so fun teaching based off of my perspective of, like, effort and emotion and.
But yeah, that's what.
[00:27:14] Speaker B: I'm glad you mentioned, emotion, because I can tell that was one of the things I found lacking in Laban technique is.
And also, I have no formal academic training in it whatsoever. But I came upon this technique after I became interested in mime. And mime also had a language and a dictation and what's it called when you make it? Turn it into words.
[00:27:41] Speaker A: Notation.
[00:27:41] Speaker B: Notation. Thank you. Bound, free, direct, indirect.
These qualities and facets of movement that didn't require emotion, which around the time I was getting into this, it was kind of a nice break to be moving without it needing to be fueled with story, with emotion, with a greater purpose. Sometimes it's just nice to do drills.
Sometimes it's just nice to have a new technique to be leaning into. Like how many times have I demi plied and I'm still learning about the feeling of a demi plie. It's nice to just plug into a technique sometimes. And I think what a lot of what it sounds like you're offering young convention kiddos is techniques that they didn't know existed because they're thinking that ballet, tap and jazz are the genres of dance.
Techniques are tools and technique also is whatever works. And if you're dancing classical ballet, there is a technique for that pirouette. And if you're dancing a different form, then there's a different technique for that thing.
But when it comes to self expression, I can't see a world where it is more bad to have more techniques. More tools means more ability to use or not use them. Yeah, I can decide if I use my Laban technique or not. I can decide if I use my classical technique or not. I do wish I had more of it. I'm not gonna lie. I did try to just do a triple pirouette the other day.
[00:29:09] Speaker A: How'd it go?
Your expression tells me double and a half.
[00:29:14] Speaker B: I was like, I was like, I feel like I could really do a triple right now. From fourth. Turned out landing in fourth. I knew, I knew, I was like, I feel like I could do that. Two. Yeah, two, two and a half.
[00:29:26] Speaker A: But it's amazing the way the, the brain can trick.
[00:29:29] Speaker B: It's amazing the way that you can think you can dance when you can't. It's amazing the way that classical ballet is actually not a bicycle and that your body does not go right back to no, but I do. I.
We are going so far left. But it's not what I planned for.
But I do think I like that. I learned many different styles of dance. I never considered myself a technical person. I considered myself an emotional performer. More than a technical craftsman or specialist. I really, I like my skill set. I think my skill set is best for enjoying dance and sharing joy of dance Love is what I like. My unique skill set has brought me to that. And sometimes, yes, that means a Commercial for somebody. But sometimes that means making shit with the Seaweed sisters, sometimes that means teaching at ML, sometimes that means, you know, making something for myself.
Yeah. This is a very long winded way to say I'm glad I have the techniques I have and I'm glad I only use them when I want to. I'm glad that they're not the most important thing.
[00:30:43] Speaker A: Yeah, well, and also there's. There's so much overlap now happening.
[00:30:48] Speaker B: Let's talk more about, let's talk more about the overlap. We probably could cut my whole speech from the last 30 minutes.
[00:30:52] Speaker A: No, stop. No, let.
[00:30:55] Speaker B: I do think, yeah, in this moment of time right now, there is so much overlap in genre, in style, in aesthetic. Like what used to be really commercial and really Instagram is now really a Gap ad.
You know, like what used to be concert work and what used to be a pop star tour is now. Rosalia, like you, we really are now more than ever, in my view, seeing a ton of crossover. And I think you're a great example of that.
Was it ever at the front of mind to do both pop commercial work and concert work or was there another North Star?
[00:31:43] Speaker A: I really appreciate that designation.
I think my relationship to dance has always been multi layered. In that entity was my outlet for creativity, individuality, expression, in a way that didn't feel fulfilled by commercial work.
[00:32:01] Speaker B: In a way, selling a hamburger.
[00:32:03] Speaker A: Totally. Which we still could do if we wanted, but call me. But yeah, I think what Will and Marissa did with the company was make concert work feel accessible for dancers like myself who maybe had some kind of connection to that world, but was still very much embedded in the commercial setting of Dance Louisiana.
Exactly, exactly. And so they and entity has also evolved as a company to. We began creating such short form work and then now we create evening length works, which is, you know, what is that word? Traditionally more concert style presentation.
And I think I've always tried to feed the different sides of myself that felt like they wanted to be fed. And so I wanted, I wanted performance opportunities in the commercial space. And so I trained and took class at Edge Performing Arts center and Movement Lifestyle in Millennium and took all the commercial classes I could. I could. And then I at some point was reintroduced to Gaga through.
At the time there was a company 89 that held classes at the Sweat Spot. And I remember getting back into a regular rhythm with Gaga and then doing Gaga Labs. Yeah, two summers in a row.
[00:33:31] Speaker B: Cool.
[00:33:32] Speaker A: And it was like that was straddled in between me doing Greece live and then also teaching on dance Convention and then also maybe doing, you know, the Billboard Awards. And I think.
I think my approach has always been to look at the things that I feel most inspired by to do and then continuing to do them.
I didn't have an agenda with learning Gaga or understanding or, you know, being exposed. I didn't have an agenda with maintaining my love of contemporary dance. It was just because I loved it and I felt called to it.
And then same thing with commercial work. I think I've, in the last, you know, whatever, almost two decades, felt called to perform and engage with dance in
[00:34:19] Speaker B: this commercial way and engage with audiences. Yeah, because you're very good at it, Karen. Oh, you're very electric up there behind the eyes and the smile. Yes. It is actively hard for me to watch anyone else when you are performing.
[00:34:34] Speaker A: Oh, my gosh.
[00:34:35] Speaker B: It's really flattering.
[00:34:37] Speaker A: Thank you. Sometimes I watch myself and I think maybe I'm doing a little too much,
[00:34:41] Speaker B: but I think it always time.
[00:34:43] Speaker A: It never feels. It never feels like I'm doing anything.
Like, I'm not trying to do anything. It just. I think I'm a naturally expressive person. My. My face just doesn't. Right.
[00:34:54] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:34:55] Speaker A: And I'll watch things back and be
[00:34:56] Speaker B: like, ooh, I'm doing a lot.
[00:34:57] Speaker A: I'm doing too much, but I'm experiencing
[00:35:00] Speaker B: my feelings with my face. Yes, yes, correct. And then you start a group called the Seaweed Sisters, where that becomes. Okay. It's really, you know, there's. Yeah, I have definitely heard you're too much before.
I've heard that more than I've heard you need to do more.
[00:35:14] Speaker A: Really? Do you think by people who you want that criticism from, or has it just been like, ah, okay, copy.
[00:35:21] Speaker B: At one mile marker of my life, that came, like, on my first tour, that feedback of, like, you should do it more like that person.
Ah. And I was like, what?
[00:35:32] Speaker A: The implication.
[00:35:33] Speaker B: What do you mean?
Yeah, it was rocked. It was completely rocked. Sorry. I might have just blown the mic out there.
[00:35:40] Speaker A: What was. How did you take that feedback?
[00:35:44] Speaker B: Quietly, but hard.
Hard on myself. And it really was a shifting of the tectonic plates of what I had built myself to be, which was a very certain kind of backup dancer.
I think a lot of the dancers I looked up to were men.
I modeled myself in my early commercial dance career after a lot of men. And so when I received feedback that was like, do it more like her.
I heard, do it sexier. I heard, you're not sexy. I heard that.
And that wasn't the words that person said.
[00:36:27] Speaker A: Sure.
[00:36:27] Speaker B: But, like, do it like her, who was the epitome of woman.
Music video sexy woman.
And I really resisted that I would need to ever do that. I was like, I thought that I could do this without doing that.
Are you telling me that I was wrong about that?
And so what it sparked was basically a quest in my version of sexy. Like, I took the note as, you need to do it sexier, more like a woman. And so my quest became what is sexier and what is more like a woman than what I'm doing right now.
And a lot of that I got to explore, actually, when I was in the Bay Area, when I was away from the commercial dance industry, when I was, like, making up moves by myself at NorCal Dance Arts during the day before classes started, like, that was where I got to investigate that criticism, which was fully, probably, like, 10 years later.
[00:37:28] Speaker A: Wow. Really?
[00:37:29] Speaker B: Yeah. Cause I probably got this note in 29.
[00:37:33] Speaker A: Wow.
[00:37:34] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:37:35] Speaker A: That's amazing.
[00:37:36] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:37:36] Speaker A: It's incredible how these really. I don't know if it was, like, extremely traumatic for you, but it obviously
[00:37:43] Speaker B: stands out enough to like it. Yeah, it was a. It was a core memory.
[00:37:47] Speaker A: Yeah. I have. I have those kinds of memories, too, where you look back on that moment and you think to yourself, that really influenced and shaped how I go forward in my career.
[00:38:01] Speaker B: There was life before that moment and life after that moment. Yeah.
[00:38:04] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:38:05] Speaker B: Care to share one?
[00:38:06] Speaker A: Oh, man.
[00:38:06] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:38:07] Speaker A: Well, it brought up. Because this idea of presentation in a way that feels traditionally feminine or sexy. I. I remember growing up, and I was conditioned to believe that if you danced well, then that was. That was enough for.
That was enough.
And I think back when I was. When we were younger, there wasn't so much emphasis on presentation in the sense of, like, how you stylized yourself for class, how you showed up for rehearsal.
[00:38:37] Speaker B: It was grunge. It was very grun. It was like, great. Your. Your socks have holes. Cool. Fold them halfway down. Awesome. You have those sweats. Cut them off.
[00:38:45] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:38:46] Speaker B: And then hike them up.
[00:38:47] Speaker A: Yes. Yeah.
[00:38:47] Speaker B: And wear them inside out.
[00:38:48] Speaker A: Cotton.
[00:38:49] Speaker B: Great. Cotton.
[00:38:50] Speaker A: A lot of cotton. Yeah, well. And I made that mistake of not connecting the need to look like the part on the job in the rehearsal space. And I distinctly remember I was a freshman in college at ucla, and I was. I'm not going to, like, blast anybody, but I think through maybe, like, the context of it, you can kind of know.
So the year was 2008, and I was invited by Wade Robson to be a part of this. This incredible promo tour. And I was so excited it was. This is my first major opportunities since moving to la. I'd been a part of this cool Nickelodeon show, but this was like since moving to la. I'm a college student now. This is the first big break was
[00:39:35] Speaker B: the Nickelodeon show, the one that Tony Testo was on.
[00:39:37] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:39:37] Speaker B: What was it called again?
[00:39:38] Speaker A: Dance on Sunset.
[00:39:40] Speaker B: Dance on Sunset. Had to shout that out. Yes. Good job.
[00:39:42] Speaker A: Oh, that's also a huge turning point in my life.
[00:39:45] Speaker B: So cool. That show was great.
[00:39:47] Speaker A: Oh, incredible.
Fast forward to, you know, fall semester or fall quarter 2008. I'm invited to be a part of this promo tour. I show up to rehearsals. Mind you, I'm. I have like photo. I can like look back and look at photos of myself and I'm wearing a, a Jack Johnson tour T shirt. It's like, like pine trees. And I'm wearing my cutoff sweats and I look like a child. So I can acknowledge that. But I'm in a room with the most incredible dancers. Sohe, Devin, Jameson, JP San Pedro, like, just people that I so admire and know and respect.
Go to rehearsal for a week and then I'm walking to class, my class at ucla, and I get a call from Wade that says.
And he said to me, the artist and the management unfortunately think you look too young and too like childlike standing next to the artist. And so we're releasing you from the tour.
And I remember the call really, really distinctly because I had had to go through all these hoops with my professors
[00:40:58] Speaker B: to get to do it, to get
[00:41:00] Speaker A: to do it because I was gonna take my finals early, I was going to skip a bunch of classes, but they were all really excited for me. And, and then it was like the embarrassment of actually being like, nevermind, I'm back, because it didn't work out. And that was, I think, the first moment when I had been met with any kind of critical comment about my appearance.
And it really changed my perspective of myself.
And I think that moment was the moment from which I just became so, so hyper conscious of how I presented myself, what I looked.
Not to say that I'm. I still struggle a bit to like, know what to wear to class and rehearsal now because everybody is.
[00:41:45] Speaker B: I will change eight times before I leave the house 100% and I'm bringing options, by the way, in my bag.
[00:41:49] Speaker A: And I don't really have. I'm like, I still have the same cotton things that I had 20 years ago, like, what am I supposed to wear?
But all of that said, it just really struck me as this Moment where, wah, it doesn't matter how hard I danced, how good the choreographer thought I was. If they cannot envision you, they can't see it.
[00:42:09] Speaker B: And they don't have an imagination most of the time. They can't see through your Jack Johnson. No, they can't see through it. You have to show them.
[00:42:18] Speaker A: Yeah. And I think I. And then it was just a series of artist interactions after that that made me even more hyper conscious of self and relationship to them and interaction with them that I didn't, I didn't know.
Yeah. I didn't know how to let go of that fight or flight mentality when it, when it came to that kind of work.
And I think when I look back in retrospect, my, the last tour that I did was in 2014, 2015 was when I started, you know, dabbling in other things. And I was like, I think that was an unconscious, subconscious. Excuse me, not unconscious. I was still conscious. It was a subconscious choice to be like, ooh, I feel like I am constantly in an anxious state and I'm thinking about all the things that I'm I doing wrong appearance wise or if am I, am I talking to the artist in the wrong way?
[00:43:10] Speaker B: Like saying the right thing.
[00:43:12] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.
[00:43:13] Speaker B: Wearing the right shoes.
[00:43:14] Speaker A: Oh my gosh. And I still don't think I ever do.
[00:43:17] Speaker B: Right.
[00:43:17] Speaker A: I still don't have an idea, but.
[00:43:19] Speaker B: Well, definitely not when it comes to dance. I haven't found the right dance sneaker yet. So I'm courting, recording.
[00:43:24] Speaker A: Ah.
[00:43:25] Speaker B: We need, we need better solutions for dance footwear is all I'm saying. Yeah, okay. You know what else we need better solutions for that you are helping with and that I want to point towards.
[00:43:34] Speaker A: What?
[00:43:36] Speaker B: Career transitions for dancers. Specifically finance focused.
And I know that you and our dear friend Eugenia have created a program I would love for you to talk a little bit about.
Pathways in Motion. Absolutely, talk about it. You've done one season with this program already and you're now building upon it. You're going, you're grad schooling. Tell me the space that you are trying to fill and what you're going to fill it with.
[00:44:00] Speaker A: Yes. Okay. Thank you for the intro. And Pathways in Motion is a college and career readiness initiative at Hollywood Vibe. And the whole purpose of it is to expose dancers to all the options that are available to them after high school. It's a non exhaustive list, but it's a lot of the things that feel really relevant right now, including exposure to BA and BFA dance programs, dance teams and Professional training programs, like non degree programs that still help create that framework for them in a professional way. And we've done one season of it, one nationals last year. And then we've tried to do some regional programming throughout the regional season, which is. Has been really fulfilling to see even just the small little impacts that we have in terms of creating those connections and, you know, seeing those light bulbs go off in terms of understanding a potential opportunity.
[00:44:57] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:44:58] Speaker A: And so we are trying to build upon the program year after year, bring more people to our events so that our attendees can have more exposure to all the different options, all the different
[00:45:11] Speaker B: bricks that are next out in front of them on this dance pathway that we're on. Because I don't know, it's different for everyone.
[00:45:17] Speaker A: Exactly, exactly. Yeah.
[00:45:20] Speaker B: That is so freaking cool. I don't know if you feel the same way, but I am rocked by the caliber of dancing that I see on convention weekends. Yeah.
90% of the people in the teen and senior ballrooms are already overqualified to be working professionals on the ability front. But it sounds like what you are, what you are solving for or creating the bridge to is the like, okay, where do I go with my talent? Yeah, like, where do I take this? Yes. These skills that I have a hundred
[00:45:53] Speaker A: percent, 100%, because it's like the, the skills that they've been developing in their studio setting, in the convention competition setting, those are really legitimate skills. Like you mentioned, a lot of them are so already professional level. But there's a lot of other soft skills that aren't necessarily taught in the studio setting or competitive, you know, setting. And that's where the professional training programs and the BA and BFA programs and even places like Dance Team, they create these structures for dancers to build upon additional skills that help to support their talent. Because talent to me is just but one route of a sustainable career.
[00:46:35] Speaker B: And it is a baseline. That's the baseline. Like you get out here to the place where people move to do that thing and everybody has that.
So it is all. It's about the surrounding skill set. And honestly, character, like, I did just have Jackie sleight on who's been doing this game, this dance game and this convention game a long time and asked for any final thoughts and she was like, yeah, don't be an asshole like that. But you actually need to be under pressure.
You need to be in spaces where things other than everything you've experienced your whole life are happening to practice not being an asshole.
So it's, it's like, it's that those are active practices and you do need to find spaces or find yourself in spaces like you either seek them out or. Or they happen to you.
[00:47:23] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:47:24] Speaker B: Where you can. Can be building those skills.
[00:47:26] Speaker A: Yes. And have the opportunity to fail at it and have someone be like, the way you handle that was horrible.
You know what I mean? Like, that tone was bad or you shouldn't have said that. You know, And I think that those options are out there.
And I feel like right now for dancers, there's so much pressure to make the right choice and they're just trying to gather as much information as possible. So we don't want to make it harder for them. You know, we want to help bridge that gap. And you brought up finance.
[00:47:56] Speaker B: Yeah, let's talk about it.
[00:47:57] Speaker A: Which I'm like pretty passionate about. Although I'm by no means a professional.
[00:48:04] Speaker B: A financial advisor.
[00:48:05] Speaker A: I am not a financial advisor for
[00:48:07] Speaker B: what you're about to hear.
[00:48:08] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. Because I don't know anything and I'm learning a lot at the same time. Great.
[00:48:12] Speaker B: I find myself feeling some of my least favorite feelings in money spaces.
And for there to be a dancer specific solution to that. I really light up about this thought.
So what are you learning now and what are you hoping to share with me or other dance types who feel at odds with doing the numbers?
[00:48:36] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, it's. It's a tough one. I'm currently in a program, a certificate program through UCLA Extension that is a personal financial planning certificate program.
And I'm basically learning all of the information that would be pertinent to take the CFP exam, which is the designation to be a certified financial planner, which I'm not going to take. But I'm learning all the information.
And right now I'm learning really technical, tedious information that won't really.
[00:49:11] Speaker B: That you won't transfer onto just any person.
[00:49:15] Speaker A: Totally. Yeah. Like unimportant. It's very important, actually. It's. It's like, for example, it's like when you're talking about how. What to invest your money in. I'm learning right now in my Investments Clients class how people classify an asset based on their riskiness and then how that asset correlates to another asset to create a portfolio that is either really efficient or not efficient.
[00:49:38] Speaker B: So, okay, this is. Right, I'm with you.
[00:49:41] Speaker A: So, yeah, it's. It's. I think when you zoom out, the information is really important. But like right now we're, you know, capturing.
So. But I'm hoping to, once I go through the program, create Something somewhere down the line where we make the language accessible for creative people to help people who feel in the weeds or count higher than eight. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:50:07] Speaker B: Or like I'm talking in jest, but I really like. I.
It's not that I am not smart.
I am a smart person.
[00:50:15] Speaker A: Yeah. Very smart.
[00:50:16] Speaker B: That I have spent a lifetime of learning in an embodied practice. And I do feel a disconnect when the practice is not in my body but on the page. Just removing the bar to entrance being language. Like, yeah, let's make words that people understand instead of stupid, stupid acronyms, which usually I love. But man, in the money space, everything's a.
[00:50:42] Speaker A: It's a theory, it's a.
[00:50:44] Speaker B: This. Yeah. It's like. It seems like impot. It seems intentionally confusing.
[00:50:49] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:50:50] Speaker B: To keep people out.
[00:50:51] Speaker A: It is. It's an intentional gatekeeping trick so that you pay somebody to do it for you.
[00:50:55] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:50:55] Speaker A: Correct.
[00:50:56] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:50:56] Speaker A: I'm gonna. I'm gonna name drop somebody in a book that I think could be really cool to look into.
It's called Finance for the People by Paco De Leon. She's a dear friend who works with creatives and has a bookkeeping service. Service and exclusive. It doesn't exclusively, but basically exclusively has clientele that are freelancers.
[00:51:18] Speaker B: Amazing.
[00:51:19] Speaker A: And the book, I will be honest. I haven't finished it yet, but I.
[00:51:23] Speaker B: So the end might be bad. Don't hold that against me.
[00:51:25] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. The beginning is amazing.
[00:51:27] Speaker B: But don't know about that.
[00:51:28] Speaker A: But I think it. Like you mentioned language. I think Paco breaks down the financial, you know, stuff in a way. Jargon. Great word.
[00:51:40] Speaker B: That helps. See, listen. I know words.
[00:51:42] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:51:43] Speaker B: But when they're on the page, it's hard.
[00:51:46] Speaker A: I would look into this book because it's a great entry point. And then she does cover some very basic topics that I think.
I think are somewhat intuitive to some people, but maybe for some people, not so intuitive. Yeah.
[00:51:58] Speaker B: Awesome. Thank you. I love a reco on a book on a money book.
[00:52:02] Speaker A: Excited for you to read that.
[00:52:03] Speaker B: Thank you.
Well, thank you for your commitment to that and your curiosity about the subject, period. I know a lot of dancers, like, just aren't interested in. It's not interesting for them to talk about. They don't crave further learning. But for you to pursue that and want to creatively transfer that information so that it will help your community.
[00:52:26] Speaker A: Thank you.
[00:52:26] Speaker B: You're after my heart, sister. Yeah. Very cool.
[00:52:29] Speaker A: I think there's not enough people.
It's sort of like vice versa, that there's not Enough people in the academic spaces that are talking about dance, which is sort of the inspiration for me to get my mfa.
Because I want to be somebody who has a different breadth of knowledge and information to share with students who are interested, fill that gap. And then the finance stuff is just a personal interest that I'm like. There is also a need.
There's just so much information where I'm like, yeah, who's keeping this stuff and why? Why are they there? And dance as a profession, Creative professions deserve the same kind of frameworks and support as all these other professions.
We. We have to kind of be the ones to build them, unfortunately.
And fortunately, yeah, it's us. So, yeah, why not to build the
[00:53:16] Speaker B: thing that we think we need?
[00:53:18] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. Dude.
[00:53:20] Speaker B: Yes. You ready for some rapid fire burnout over here?
[00:53:22] Speaker A: Ooh, love. Yes, please.
[00:53:24] Speaker B: Why do I pull out the card like I need it? I asked the same question.
[00:53:27] Speaker A: I'm nervous.
[00:53:28] Speaker B: I tried to modify a little bit.
Coffee or tea?
[00:53:30] Speaker A: My instinct is coffee, but I also really love tea. I love oolong.
[00:53:33] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:53:34] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:53:34] Speaker B: All right, I'll take that. Dog or cat?
[00:53:37] Speaker A: Dog.
[00:53:40] Speaker B: We're gonna put this in the episode. Friends.
[00:53:43] Speaker A: Shut the perfect looking Ewok.
[00:53:48] Speaker B: Morning. Rehearsal night.
[00:53:49] Speaker A: Rehearsal morning.
[00:53:51] Speaker B: Is that when your most creative period or.
[00:53:54] Speaker A: I think my best body. My comedians. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:53:58] Speaker B: You're watching a movie tonight. What is it?
[00:54:00] Speaker A: Movie tonight?
[00:54:00] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:54:01] Speaker A: Was it going to be quick Shrek
[00:54:05] Speaker B: Green. You are vibing with green right now, for sure. So true. What is the last song that you sang at full voice? Like, really belted.
[00:54:15] Speaker A: Hands Down. Hands down. This is a messy by Dashboard Confessional.
[00:54:24] Speaker B: Oh, I know. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:54:25] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:54:25] Speaker B: Thank you for that. Thank you for that. I needed a little.
[00:54:27] Speaker A: Is that right?
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's the right song. Yeah.
[00:54:30] Speaker B: I wouldn't. Yeah, I wouldn't have stopped you. I did listen to Dashboard Confessional probably for the last time when I was in high school, so that. Probably.
[00:54:38] Speaker A: Take me back.
[00:54:39] Speaker B: Take me back.
[00:54:39] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:54:41] Speaker B: Tell me about a guilty pleasure that you have.
[00:54:45] Speaker A: My guilty pleasure is watching bad reality TV shows. Not bad. Because it's such a, you know.
[00:54:51] Speaker B: Oh, it's a thing. It's a thing. It's its own thing.
[00:54:54] Speaker A: Yeah. Right now I'm watching Singles Inferno. I have not on Netflix. It's a Korean show.
[00:55:00] Speaker B: Okay, perfect. Thank you.
Tell me your favorite joke. Go.
[00:55:07] Speaker A: Oh, I feel like I think of these on the fly.
[00:55:09] Speaker B: I know. I'm the worst at remembering jokes. It's like classically bad. How. How shitty I am at remembering jokes.
[00:55:15] Speaker A: I'M really good at.
What is that? Like double entendres? Like words with two meanings? I think of one right now.
[00:55:22] Speaker B: What about just like a classic knock knock or like dad joke? Do you have any of those on? On the ready?
[00:55:28] Speaker A: I think I'm gonna say this wrong, but knock knock.
[00:55:32] Speaker B: You nailed that part. Who's there?
[00:55:35] Speaker A: Yoda.
[00:55:36] Speaker B: Yoda who?
[00:55:38] Speaker A: Yoda Lehu. Is that one?
[00:55:43] Speaker B: Yes, I like it with a question mark on it. That's a cute spin on an old classic. No, that's perfect.
[00:55:50] Speaker A: Now I'm gonna try to remember actually
[00:55:52] Speaker B: exactly what I need to do.
[00:55:53] Speaker A: I'm gonna blank my mind.
[00:55:55] Speaker B: How about a guiding principle? A North Star poem, mantra saying, proverb, something that kind of like guides you in your daily life.
[00:56:02] Speaker A: A quote, maybe a quote that I've loved for a long time is wherever you go, there you are.
And it's this idea that you might find yourself in a circumstance that feels not your ideal for you, but that is your circumstance.
And how do you go about embracing it? How do you go about framing it in your mind? Perspective wise to. Yeah, because I think it's possible to. And then also maybe make decisions to either get yourself into a different place.
But wherever you go, that's where you are.
[00:56:37] Speaker B: I love that. Thank you for sharing, Karen. Thank you for sharing all that you do in all the spaces that you show up. I'm just a huge, huge fan and so grateful for you sharing these stories and thoughts today and feelings and all the things that are important. I love you and I'm so grateful.
[00:56:54] Speaker A: Thank you so much. Love you Libby. Thank you for having me.
[00:56:56] Speaker B: Also love you and I'm grateful for you. Listener Viewer Is this creepy? It feels a little needy. I'll just sit back and cool out a little bit. Thank you for listening Watching Please don't be afraid to do anything. But specifically, don't be afraid to leave comments Reviews Leave a Rating Share with a friend maybe subscribe click the bell for notifications, But get out there and keep it super funky.
This podcast was produced by me with the help of many Big big love to our Executive Assistant and editor, Riley Higgins. Our Communications Manager is Fiona Small with additional support from Ori Vagiris. Our music is by Max Winnie, logo and brand design by Bree Reitz and if you're digging the podcast, leave a review and rating and please share. Also, if you want to connect with me and the many marvelous members of the Words that Move me community, visit wordsthatmoveme.com if you're simply curious to know more about me and the work that I do outside of this podcast, visit thedanawilson.com.
