Episode Transcript
[00:00:04] Speaker A: Guys, I have the coolest job in the world. Can we just clock that for a second? That I do what I love for a living and I do what lights me on fire for my passion. This podcast is the coolest thing. If you don't think so, I don't care. It doesn't matter because it's my show. And today I got to talk to one of my dearest friends and biggest inspirations in my life. I don't know if he knows this or not, but. But y', all, he's the through line. This person is special. I've known for a very long time. I love the way that they move through dance spaces, but also the world. When we say that good humans make great dancers, maybe it's the other way around. I don't know what we actually say, but, man, this. This guest today is tops of both.
I cannot wait to share this conversation with Will Johnston because he is a light. When all else seems so dark, it's nighttime. Also, we don't usually record at night, so I'm on one Will Johnson, y', all, special rare bird that I'm so excited to share with you. But first, we're going to celebrate a win. So here's what's up.
I'm not ready to make, like, a formal public service announcement about this yet, but I've been really looking at my finances lately, and I think, like, I think that I might become the poster child who elects themselves the poster child of anything. First of all, me. I might elect myself the poster child of attempting to make it look cool and, dare I say, sexy to be frugal, to, like, live beneath your means. There are plenty of people in the entertainment industry making it look sexy as to live outside your means. Okay. I think. I think I want to be the poster child of, like, oh, that person really lives beneath their means. And it's hot to me. Like, that's cool. I want to be like that. I think I want to be that person. I think I want to be that superhero that, like, has multiple, multiple properties, like, multiple mortgages, and, like, I want to be the person that has more houses than Louis Vuitton bags.
And right now I already am that person because I have zero Louis Vuitton bags.
But, like, I have this new money goal, you guys. I. I think it's a shame that there aren't more people out there, like, walking the walk and living the frugal life and making it look cool to have more houses than, like, luxury brand name items.
I'm working on it. That was my dress rehearsal pitch. What do you think? What do you think? Please give me the feedback. I want to hear about what you think about this because, like, I feel like I might be onto something, but also maybe I'm just crazy. I don't know. Tell me what you think. Okay. That's me. That's what's going well in my world. A new sense of expanding via tightening the belts. On the money front. I'm excited about this journey. Tell me what you think about it and also tell me your win. What's going well in your world?
Congratulations, my friend. I'm so glad that you're winning. Please keep it up. My guest today, Will Johnston. My good friend. I'm so lucky that I can say that. And MFA in dance from the University of California at Irvine. BFA in dance performance.
BFA in dance choreography. His bs, which makes me laugh because I'm seven in Mechanical engineering, which doesn't make me laugh because that's really serious stuff. He's the co director of Entity Contemporary Dance. He's on faculty with West Coast Dance Explosion and was on faculty with Chapman University for nine years.
He has seen his fair share of the concert world, but he's also been all over your TV screens. So youo Think youk Can Dance Glee.
He's danced for crazy big pop stars like Katy Perry, Rita Ora, Kelly Clarkson. Iconic. He's also taught all over the globe, the actual planet Earth. So he's got a lot of information and he's sharing so much of it today. He's also one of the most delightful people I've ever met. Without any further ado, the one and only Will Johnston.
That was pretty good.
That was my contemporary Flea Hop.
Ow. Will Johnson, welcome to the podcast. We're doing it.
[00:04:35] Speaker B: Oh, we're on.
[00:04:36] Speaker A: Yeah, we're recording.
Riz is wearing her brand new kimono.
[00:04:40] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:04:41] Speaker A: Gift gifted to her from Reba.
[00:04:43] Speaker B: And it is cinched.
[00:04:44] Speaker A: It is really tight.
We could have gone a size up.
[00:04:49] Speaker B: But it does close at the front.
[00:04:51] Speaker A: It is fully closed and. And the only thing folding over is her neck.
[00:04:56] Speaker B: But you know what, it looks so traditional. So it's like, perfect.
[00:05:00] Speaker A: Thank you for this gift. Well, from Japan.
[00:05:02] Speaker B: Yeah.
Remember the kimono from Hong Kong? This is a funny thing.
[00:05:07] Speaker A: From Hong Kong. That's true. Oh, good girl. Okay. She's resting, she's chilling.
Welcome to my house. We've been friend for friends for a long time.
[00:05:14] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:05:15] Speaker A: In fact, one of my fondest memories of you, Will. Do you remember when you took me out in San Francisco. On my birthday, we just walked around San Francisco and took photo. We had a photo walk. We ate some good eats.
[00:05:26] Speaker B: We went to Marin Headlands.
[00:05:28] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:05:28] Speaker B: Hung out by the bridge.
[00:05:29] Speaker A: It was super soggy that day. It was really a magical, beautiful day.
[00:05:33] Speaker B: That was really fun. That's when you moved to the Bay Area. And I was like, wait, what?
[00:05:37] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:05:38] Speaker B: And I, for some reason was up there over and over and over.
[00:05:42] Speaker A: Yeah. I don't remember why, but I did all also take your class. Clip incoming.
I took your class at NorCal Dance Arts and I have video of it.
It's on my phone.
[00:05:51] Speaker B: Dude. I don't.
[00:05:52] Speaker A: I'm text it to you later tonight and then I'm going to share the world with your approval. I really loved it. And I was in a place. I was. Yes. I lived in Sunnyvale.
[00:06:04] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:06:04] Speaker A: For like 2014, 2015.
And NorCal Dance Arts. Shout out, Tanya.
[00:06:11] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:06:12] Speaker A: That was a place that I did a lot of, like, personal discovery movement stuff. But when my friends came through town, a lot of you guys would teach there. What's your anchor to NorCal dance arts? Do you just.
[00:06:24] Speaker B: That was. I don't even know what year that was started, but I would teach for the summer series. But I grew up in the Bay Area, so my family's still there, so I was going back and forth. But I just remember you moving there. And usually it's my friends moving away, but when your friends move too, you're like, oh, oh, yeah, I'll show you everything.
[00:06:44] Speaker A: And it was. Yeah. And it was my birthday and it was so special.
[00:06:47] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:06:47] Speaker A: I had just gotten a new.
My Sony, a 6000. And we took such fun photos and videos. It was windy and it was overcast.
[00:06:58] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:06:58] Speaker A: Which means the photos are all really beautiful.
[00:07:00] Speaker B: Yeah. That was special. That was really special. Thanks for bringing that up. Dude. I forgot about that.
[00:07:04] Speaker A: It was really cool.
[00:07:05] Speaker B: Yeah, that was okay.
[00:07:05] Speaker A: So all that to say, but you've never been to my home. You've never been on the podcast.
[00:07:09] Speaker B: No.
[00:07:10] Speaker A: I love that you're finally here. You're a busy bee. Thank you for making time. I'm so glad our calendar's aligned. Yeah.
Okay. So here's the tough part, though.
Also talking, like, sometimes. And it's weird we're surrounded by cameras and Riley, but just take a beat from Riz. This is actually really casual.
You're gonna feel cinched, but it's actually. It's very casual.
The first thing I ask of all my guests is for them to introduce themselves.
[00:07:35] Speaker B: Absolutely. It always feels a Little tricky, but my name is Will.
Born and raised in the Bay Area, California native. And more than ever, I feel really proud of that because I. I loved growing up here, and there's so many things about it that I didn't appreciate that I do now in my. My high 30s.
High 30s. High 30s.
[00:07:56] Speaker A: Not late high.
[00:07:58] Speaker B: My high 30s elevated. Yeah. It feels better than saying late 30s. Yeah. High 30s.
And I really love dance.
I've danced my entire life. I like making things.
[00:08:09] Speaker A: When you say entire life, totally.
[00:08:11] Speaker B: That's actually false because I started when I was four, so it was three years unaccounted for.
[00:08:16] Speaker A: It's funny because I started at three.
[00:08:18] Speaker B: Dang. Well, it shows, honestly.
Yeah.
[00:08:22] Speaker A: That one year.
[00:08:23] Speaker B: That one year of creative movement, It's a crucial year.
[00:08:26] Speaker A: Huge shaping for my feet as well as.
[00:08:29] Speaker B: It's a big deal.
I really feel like I was recreational for a long time, though. And then in seventh grade, the teacher that really raised me through high school made me think more seriously about it, which was really cool. And I remember specifically that.
I really remember we were in a lunge, and I remember one day in my head going, like, I should work hard. I just remember this feeling, because recreationally, it wasn't ever really. Like, you're not, like, challenged like you are when you maybe go into, like, competitive dance. And I remember that moment, and from there, I felt like it was really just so consistently part of, like, my life. Yeah.
[00:09:10] Speaker A: Wow.
[00:09:11] Speaker B: Yeah. I don't know what that was.
[00:09:12] Speaker A: Okay. I also had a pivotal moment in a lunge.
[00:09:15] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:09:15] Speaker A: But this one was.
[00:09:19] Speaker B: It's.
Those weight bearing positions will make you.
[00:09:22] Speaker A: Think, yo, anything that's opening the hips, be prepared for a life change to be coming your way.
[00:09:27] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:09:27] Speaker A: This one was less of a positive experience.
[00:09:30] Speaker B: Oh, hell.
[00:09:33] Speaker A: An educator who will remain nameless because I think they know better now gave me a criticism that was really, really mean when I was in my lunge.
[00:09:44] Speaker B: Oh, dang.
[00:09:44] Speaker A: And now it's gonna sound like a joke, but they told me, 13 years old at the time, this is gonna sound like I am making it up to be funny. It is not funny. They told me. Now I can't even say it. Maybe if I said it. Just say it in an accent.
[00:10:00] Speaker B: Oh, throw it on there. Yeah.
[00:10:04] Speaker A: They told me I looked like a sagging horse.
[00:10:08] Speaker B: I know there are other ways to be.
[00:10:10] Speaker A: Like, engage your core.
[00:10:12] Speaker B: Yeah. We both just said two other options. I do love animal references, though.
[00:10:18] Speaker A: Well, it's funny you mentioned that, because when I was three, I was in a dance class where all we did was move like an animal. Truly. It was like, move like a sagging horse. And I was like, oh, yeah, that's what they said. They said, you look like a sagging horse. And then poked my belly.
[00:10:33] Speaker B: Oh.
[00:10:34] Speaker A: And I was like, I wanted to throw him.
[00:10:36] Speaker B: I don't wish that on anybody ever.
[00:10:39] Speaker A: So I think, like, because of that, my teaching and leading style has.
Tends towards really nurturing and gentle.
[00:10:46] Speaker B: I think I feel that way too.
[00:10:48] Speaker A: I'm sure I've said some pointed things that have hurt some feelings. I'm sure.
But, yeah, man, you look like a sagging horse. And I was in a lunge, and I never wanted to be in a lunge again.
[00:10:59] Speaker B: Gosh, I wonder if that was on the same day I was in my.
[00:11:01] Speaker A: Lunch and the world was in perfect balance.
[00:11:06] Speaker B: It could have been. Who knows? It was really crazy. I do remember that moment you gave.
[00:11:11] Speaker A: Yourself the thought it wasn't somebody, like, giving a talk, but you were like, I should care about this.
[00:11:15] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:11:16] Speaker A: This seems important.
[00:11:17] Speaker B: Similar to what you were saying. Like, it sounds like I made it up, but I really remember that specific moment. And then I just started, like, pushing a little bit more. I also, that year did not get welcomed back onto my soccer team. So I chose to do competitive dance. I was so bad. So that's fair enough.
But, like, yeah, I think from then on, dance always became a.
[00:11:36] Speaker A: Did not get welcomed back.
[00:11:37] Speaker B: Well, here's the thing. I was on a team. I don't know if any of my friends from seventh grade back in, like, 99 are watching this, but I really.
It was. I was on a competitive soccer team. And then we. We had tryouts the next year, and I didn't make it back.
I know. And at that moment, I said, great. Dance it is.
[00:11:56] Speaker A: All right.
The decision has been made.
[00:11:58] Speaker B: The decision has been made. But I funny enough is like. Yeah. So dance has always been a part of my life. I think back then I graduated.05 from high school. I still didn't really know what possibilities there were.
[00:12:11] Speaker A: Sure.
[00:12:11] Speaker B: So I went to school for engineering because that's what I really wanted to do.
[00:12:15] Speaker A: Right. And then I have your BS in Mechanical Engineering.
[00:12:18] Speaker B: Yes. I went to school.
[00:12:19] Speaker A: Say BS without cracking up.
[00:12:20] Speaker B: It sounds like bullshit.
[00:12:22] Speaker A: Yeah.
Which actually recorded your intro and I made a joke about it. So we're back.
Call this a callback.
[00:12:29] Speaker B: It's considering it is BS And I look back on my career.
[00:12:32] Speaker A: It means Bachelor of Sciences, Right?
[00:12:33] Speaker B: Totally.
[00:12:33] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:12:34] Speaker B: Yeah. But I.
I'm not sure I really got the most out of that.
Those Five years for engineering because I was double majoring.
[00:12:42] Speaker A: Right.
[00:12:42] Speaker B: And I put so much into dance, but that's what I wanted to do. I wanted to be an engineer. And then dance just took over.
[00:12:49] Speaker A: Where are they the same?
[00:12:51] Speaker B: That's a really good question. Logistically, in terms of courses, nothing. Like, you know, usually you have like, if you double major, you can kind of have some crossover with some classes. But it was like two separate tracks.
[00:13:04] Speaker A: Correct.
[00:13:05] Speaker B: Um, maybe like in terms of precision and like critical thinking and analyzation and.
[00:13:17] Speaker A: Computational understanding things in three dimensional space.
[00:13:21] Speaker B: Exactly. It makes it like, especially the theoretical part of it makes it most similar to choreography. But I can't say that I've been like, oh, I feel myself using this from these studies. I don't know. And I could just be doing it subconsciously, but really felt like this.
[00:13:37] Speaker A: Polar opposites.
[00:13:38] Speaker B: Yeah. But I was also 21 years old and still figuring things out. Correct. So, yeah, I was.
[00:13:44] Speaker A: I didn't know this about you. I was so shocked and impressed to see that. I also.
My ex husband is a.
Is an engineer, optical. But similar. There's a lot of overlap and he's a very mechanical person.
And when we met, I. The story that I told myself was, oh my God, we're so different.
[00:14:04] Speaker B: Oh, yeah.
[00:14:05] Speaker A: But then you find out, actually there are a lot of similarities. But I felt that the biggest difference in my observation of him is that the things that he learned, he learned through reading. And the things that I learned, I had to. I learned, embodied. For sure. I had to try with my body. I don't get the information from books.
[00:14:25] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:14:26] Speaker A: And that was maybe the most distinguishing thing. I can't imagine how splitting your time looked.
[00:14:32] Speaker B: Yeah, it was. It's really interesting. And I feel like I tell a lot of dancers who are maybe going into collegiate programs or are currently in them that like that time of your life, your stamina is out of control. Like you can do the.
[00:14:47] Speaker A: Riley and I talk about it all. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:14:48] Speaker B: It's like not just your physical stamina, but just like your endurance in how much you can do in a day. So I.
I almost sometimes think like I did way too much because I'm like not taking the full of all of the things I'm committing myself to. So things really just became like a checklist. But yeah, but at the same time, you did it. Yeah. So there's something to say about the time management and just the getting things done.
[00:15:18] Speaker A: Yikes.
[00:15:18] Speaker B: Like getting in there and doing it.
But yeah, that was pretty crazy. I mean, I did like cedc, which is one of the hip hop teams within the Southern California Collegiate. Yeah.
So much fun. I. We would. And if anyone has done those collegiate teams, especially back in the day, I don't know how they are now. We would be practicing in a parking structure some days till like 6am Crazy. There were days and anyone who did it would know this. We would go straight from practice to lecture.
I don't know. And then I would sleep in lecture. It made no sense. I'm like, why even go, you know? But, but it's like yeah, it's. I don't know.
[00:15:56] Speaker A: So you're. Ever since soccer, your heart was dance. And ever since that one lunge, you were like work hard at shit you care about.
[00:16:03] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:16:03] Speaker A: And mechanical engineering for you was like, maybe I should care about this. Or where did the care and interest for that come.
[00:16:09] Speaker B: I was. Since I was a little obsessed with roller coasters.
[00:16:13] Speaker A: Still got it.
[00:16:14] Speaker B: Still am obsessed with roller coasters.
I still to this day think they're beautiful in the way movement is. I love the smoothness of them. I love watching them.
I still play roller coaster Tycoon and Planet Coaster on the plane. That's how the time goes by. A five hour flight feels like it's 20 minutes. It's so nice. Yeah, it's so good. But I, I. When I was like in eighth grade, I had written letters to a lot of like the bid manufacturing companies who are still designing a lot of the stuff now. Like Bolior Maviar is one of my favorite ones. And I sounded like you said Blair Mabrio Boyard Mauvillard. Well now when I say it's slow. Oh gosh. Not A in how many roller coaster enthusiasts watch your podcast you think?
Maybe none B and M but it's just. I think they're Swiss but they. Oh, some of your favorite rides. Batman at Six Flags.
[00:17:06] Speaker A: Totally.
[00:17:06] Speaker B: Okay. That's theirs. R's revenge. That's theirs.
[00:17:09] Speaker A: Twister 2 at Six Flags in Denver. Six Flags Elish Garden. Twister 2.
[00:17:13] Speaker B: It was made out steel and steel track. No.
[00:17:17] Speaker A: Well, it's like the oldest one in Earth maybe. I think it might be the first.
[00:17:21] Speaker B: Roller coaster.
[00:17:23] Speaker A: Coming out of there with temporary memory loss. For sure.
[00:17:26] Speaker B: Oh, those old and like maybe a.
[00:17:27] Speaker A: Chipped wall, a chipped walnut chipped molar. I don't know why interchanged it can happen. I've been talking a lot today.
Okay, but wait, no. My mom also loves roller coasters.
[00:17:40] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:17:41] Speaker A: This is a niche thing.
I feel like there was a show on TV about Roller coasters and how they're made.
[00:17:48] Speaker B: I mean, there was. I have VHS tapes from when I was younger. I just recorded anything that was tlc, Travel Channel, Discovery Channel. They would have a ton.
[00:17:56] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:17:57] Speaker B: But I wrote to those companies when I was in eighth grade and I was like, I want to do what you do. What do I need to do? And they're like, you also. I was like, I have an A in physics. I never took physics in eighth grade, but.
[00:18:07] Speaker A: So you lied.
[00:18:08] Speaker B: I don't. I think I maybe thought I was stuck. It doesn't matter. I said, I have an A in physics and math. Let's go. And they. But it was really cool. They wrote me back.
[00:18:17] Speaker A: These like, this child is like, yeah, this I have. I have an A in social studies and history.
[00:18:24] Speaker B: Yeah, no, actually. But they wrote me back and they're like, we usually hire civil mechanical engineers. So if that's. If this is something you want to do, we go to that. And I was like, great, I'll do mechanical.
So that's why I went to school for it. And then it just.
In those five years, the double took me five. Just so much changed. And I feel like the opportunities that we have now as dancers also, like, we're simultaneously emerging between, you know, 2005 to 2010 to then, you know, after and even now. So it just sort of like once I graduated, I just let that go.
[00:18:59] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:18:59] Speaker B: Happy to have done that.
[00:19:01] Speaker A: Because doors were opening for you. Opportunities were there.
[00:19:04] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:19:04] Speaker A: Okay. You're the co founder of Entity Dance.
[00:19:07] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:19:08] Speaker A: When did you and Marissa. When did this. When did you guys start? Because I feel like you've guys been around way longer than I even. I think.
[00:19:14] Speaker B: Yeah. 16 years. Holy shit.
[00:19:16] Speaker A: That's amazing.
[00:19:16] Speaker B: It's crazy.
[00:19:17] Speaker A: Congratulations.
[00:19:18] Speaker B: Thank you. Yeah. I think we're lucky to have the people that we have currently and have had in the past. That's really the reason why we're able to still go is because it's our family and people are so down to do it. Right now we're at 11 dancers, I think. And that's been the same group for a very long time.
[00:19:37] Speaker A: Gorgeous.
[00:19:38] Speaker B: We have one Karen Chuang.
[00:19:40] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:19:40] Speaker B: Who is the one member who has been with us literally since the start. She's been with us for 16 years. Yeah. It's pretty cool. And Karen is someone who does so much. So it just go. And all the other dancers as well just goes to say like how committed they are to what we do as a group. Yeah. And I think that's one very strong reason of why 16? It's 16 years now, but we started in June 2009.
It was a stem from Boogie Zone and we just wanted to make up dances, literally.
[00:20:11] Speaker A: And was your objective at the time concert world type of work or contemporary? Did you genre FY the company @ that time, you know, or we just want to make up moves and put them just that.
[00:20:23] Speaker B: I'm really grateful. I think because we were all doing so many. We had our hands dipped in a few communities simultaneously. One being the academic community. The academic community has a really strong tie to like the concert world in terms of the work we were learning. And then we were taking class in an la and then we were also doing these hip hop teams in collegiate world. So it's like everything went for us. Like, I was so equally inspired at the same time by like Keoni and Mario at those days, and then also William Forsyth, Erie Killian. Like all of that information was coming in like at one time. So I feel like when we were dancing and making up movement, there was no real, like, we want this to be for this. It was just whatever felt good. And I look back at some of the stuff and I'm like, oh, I've like, I can see like the influence on that. And then look at the next thing. I'm like, oh, that was a completely different influence.
[00:21:16] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:21:16] Speaker B: I feel really good coming through the.
[00:21:18] Speaker A: Funnel at the same time.
[00:21:19] Speaker B: Yeah. Which to me is like, I think many people can maybe like have a different opinion on this, but really like the heart of contemporary is like the celebration of all and the concept of newness, you know, and so I feel like, I feel really grateful to have never maybe been committed to just one community because I feel like there's power in all of them. Yes. You know, and I think we still to this day are never trying to be like, we want to create a commercial, we want to create a con. It's just whatever comes to us in that moment. And we're self funded. So we're also not adhering to anyone else. Like, we do what we want to do and then that's it.
[00:21:59] Speaker A: Not having a board to answer to.
[00:22:01] Speaker B: Not having to, which has its downfalls. But ultimately, creatively, it's so freeing. We do whatever we want.
[00:22:07] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:22:07] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:22:08] Speaker A: I do want to circle back. You mentioned Karen and all the many, many things that she does. And it's people like her who keep this a family.
[00:22:14] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:22:15] Speaker A: I want to like zoom out just a little bit because. Yes. And. But you similarly perform in pop star spaces and on TV and things like that. And I think it's a trickle out. You and Marissa also.
It's a trickle out effect. Right. It is the people that you have attracted, but you've attracted those people and set the example of not having barriers or borders to the type of work that you do.
[00:22:40] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:22:40] Speaker A: And so when you don't model, there are barriers and borders, guys. You can only do it now if you're going to go do. If you're going to go be on tour with Taylor Swift, you're not going to be dancing with entity anymore. Sorry.
You model and encourage going and doing, and the company itself is about going out and doing.
[00:22:57] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:22:58] Speaker A: And so it makes total sense to me that, like, be attracting, like in that way.
[00:23:02] Speaker B: Yeah, that's. Thank you for bringing that up because I.
It feels so natural for us.
[00:23:08] Speaker A: For us, it's unusual.
[00:23:10] Speaker B: It is unusual. And I also think that our model is also unusual because we're not like contract based and also like, we're consistent but self funded, which means that it's pretty volatile in what we can do and pay for. So it's a lot of different components to it. But I think that's. Yeah. Like what you're saying is one of our strongest suits is like the multifaceted group of people that we have collectively in the same space. So interesting to watch, but it's really cool to watch people go and do such different stuff and then come together and do a work that we make for, you know, the 11 dances that we have. Yeah, it's really cool.
And I think only creates like a stronger foundation. Like, the more we do, the more versatility everyone has, the more information and, like, substance we have to work with, thus allowing us to really celebrate those various communities that we've all been a part of. You know, that.
[00:24:05] Speaker A: That you built yourselves through.
[00:24:07] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:24:08] Speaker A: And because of.
[00:24:09] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
[00:24:10] Speaker A: Gorgeous.
[00:24:10] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:24:11] Speaker A: Okay, let's segue into talking about influence because earlier this year you got.
You got called to pull up a big kid chair at the big kid table that we call social media and say in front of all the people how you thought about a specific circumstance that happened earlier on. There was a choreography competition and the young person that won the competition, I saw the number and I was like, wow, love. And the next day, some anonymous person on social media had shared a side by side between the number that won that competition and one of yours.
And the angle was, this is copyright infringement, this is biting. This is whatever you want to call it, this is one step past influence, and this is impersonation or this is, this is stealing of somebody else's work.
And I know how it feels to all of a sudden become centered in a conversation that you didn't ask to have publicly. But I think there's a lot to untangle here. And it was a huge learning moment, I'm sure for you and for this young choreographer. But for the dance community, I think the first thing that I want to kind of tease at that's super important for me to say is that I love social media for how it can connect us, but to see it used to police and shame especially a young person, I was really disappointed in how that went down and I felt so bad for everybody involved. But I would.
I do think it's important to call attention to ways that we all, individually and as a community can do better.
I've been working as a member of the Choreographers Guild for a long time and as the vice president for a couple years now.
Ownership and recognition for our work is like top of the, top of our list of important shit. Yeah, this is an important issue. And, and one of the things I've been learning as the chair of the social media branch at Choreographers Guild is how to say something heavy and important with a positive and professional voice.
[00:26:23] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:26:23] Speaker A: And I don't think that is what happened in that instance. I will say this. It takes a lot longer and it takes a team of people to really PR something like to really carefully approach a subject. Takes meetings about language, tone, messaging, whatever. Clearly the person behind this social media account didn't have all those meetings and didn't care maybe to have a positive or professional approach, but it wasn't done that way. And so I, I felt bad at the way the conversation was introduced. But alas, it was an important conversation to have.
That was a long winded way of me to saying, there's still a lot to untie there. But I'm curious about, now that some time has passed, what was your biggest lesson learned from that incident?
[00:27:04] Speaker B: Yeah.
So I'll start off by saying I too fully agree on, when inserting myself both involuntarily and then voluntarily, like to maintain a sense of professionalism first and foremost, because I don't. It's. This is not about me. Like, I don't feel.
And I didn't feel. I still don't feel offended or mad.
And the biggest reason why I feel that way and when I've tried to reflect on it is because I'm like, it's not about me. Like, someone was not coming for me and making this like, I'm going to get him. It's like, no, they probably.
[00:27:48] Speaker A: I mean, it still will.
[00:27:49] Speaker B: Yeah. And for the reasons to hurt or to. To. To lessen his. His. His progress or reputation, whatever it may be. Like. So I genuinely am just like, yeah, I don't feel any specific way. And so I'm not going to approach this with some sort of manufactured energy or demeanor that is like, reachful or mad or like, what the. Like, yeah, because I genuinely don't feel that way. Yeah, it's not there, so I won't be putting that on.
So all that is to say is I think it's a lot easier and comprehendable to speak in a way that feels a little bit more general, professional, clear and concise, precise. And I just feel like everyone on all ends of that absorbs. And it's something. I do think that in general, spaces in our environment could use more because it's not always there. And I don't think that everyone knows how to embody that. And it is hard when things get stressful or there's time constraints. I get it. Like, it's not.
Sometimes it takes a lot of energy and focus to be like.
[00:28:54] Speaker A: Especially when there's a lot of voices that. Social media posts got a lot of attention very quickly and a lot of people.
There were so many voices. And when there are that many voices, it can be really hard to hear your own and to deliver a message.
Your message. Yeah, clearly.
[00:29:12] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly.
[00:29:13] Speaker A: Yes. But in this. In this instance, you didn't feel rattled or emotionally triggered. And so speaking clearly on it was natural for you.
[00:29:20] Speaker B: Supernatural and. Yeah.
[00:29:23] Speaker A: And you had a conversation with this person, I'm assuming.
[00:29:25] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Which I fully like. You're saying I'm. I for sure use my social media, but never in this way. And the fact that I felt like I had to was already the one thing I was like.
[00:29:37] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:29:37] Speaker B: Like, I'm in New York, in Central Park. My boyfriend, I, are celebrating our anniversary. I was like, all right, let me hop on here real quick, because I know it's important, but damn, I hate the.
Of course, I'm like, we're teaching next Wednesday. That I love, but, like, this kind of stuff. Oh, man. I'm just like.
Because I think sometimes I'm like, I'm 30 years old. Let's be about us, you know? So all that is to say is it's a bigger issue. So, yes, community in this regard, conversation's important. But, yeah, so I did speak. I did speak with this person, and it was great.
Like, conversation was clear.
[00:30:15] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:30:16] Speaker B: Points were given across and that's all you can ask for, is just conversation. Like, I think the biggest lesson. Sorry you asked this idea. The biggest lesson that I learned from this is that and something I was already aware of. But it's like this idea of plagiarism and authenticity is really hard because it's not quantifiable. Like, we don't have a rubric for this being. Like, let's count these points. Tick. That's one, that's two, that's three. Because sometimes, like, the things that really get transferred over again, maybe involuntarily or voluntarily by this creator are the nuance, the demeanor, the posture, the energy of things. You know, maybe it's not necessarily like two eight counts that you're taking, and maybe sometimes it is. Which I think is easier to tell.
[00:31:01] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:31:02] Speaker B: You know what I'm saying? Like, if it's like, oh, I just did Dana's like, combo from last class. You can't put that in there. Whatever.
[00:31:06] Speaker A: Right.
[00:31:07] Speaker B: We can, we can quantify in a way.
[00:31:09] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:31:09] Speaker B: But even when it comes to that, it's like, how many moves can I use?
[00:31:12] Speaker A: Right. Because how many sequentially? And what if I use them out of order?
[00:31:15] Speaker B: Exactly. And like, there's things like, like, let's take like Fosse, who has such an iconic way of moving. The arch architecture is so specific and it's influenced so many things. Like how, how. How much of it can you use before it's too much?
[00:31:30] Speaker A: There is an answer to that question because he has an estate and, and I believe has, I'm sure, like the.
[00:31:36] Speaker B: Trust of it or something.
[00:31:37] Speaker A: Copywritten. A lot of that.
[00:31:39] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:31:40] Speaker A: Basically, these are questions that clear, clean ownership of our work will solve.
And that's one of the things the Choreographers Guild is seeking to do.
Is it our job to make the law? No, that's. The U.S. copyright Office would be them. But we're working with lawyers. We're trying to educate our own communities around this. But you're right in that what might be okay for you is really, really not okay for someone else.
[00:32:13] Speaker B: That's the thing. It's like, subjective.
[00:32:14] Speaker A: We don't all agree on all fronts on this subject. So, yeah, maybe I'll. Maybe for today, let's wrap it up for you personally. Where does the line from influence or inspiration become full blown impostorism?
[00:32:35] Speaker B: When it feels like something is completely replicated instead of just inspired infringement? There it is, man.
I have to be honest, when I'm like, I don't know, like we know when it happens and we see something.
But that point for Dana, that point for me, that point for Riley, that point could trigger at different times.
[00:32:55] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:32:56] Speaker B: So it's like, I don't know, like, at what point is it this. But I do know that if you're recognizing things physically and you're also seeing this, the, the, the. The nuance and the, the feelings of things where it's sort of undeniable, then that is when the red flag goes up. And when you, when. Where you kind of go from there is. Is.
I don't know. It's hard to say. It really is hard to say. But I think, I think the way to try to avoid these sort of situations happening is to just be so meticulous. I think that's our job as creators. We are all influenced by something 1,000%.
[00:33:38] Speaker A: I mean. Yeah. Is anything original? Maybe should have been the question I asked.
[00:33:41] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:33:42] Speaker A: It's hard to see if this person was influenced by your piece. What was your piece influenced by?
[00:33:47] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. I, you know, I, I'm like thinking that this specific piece we're talking about also was made like four years ago.
And I remember feeling this idea of over consumption and being completely engulfed in something to the point of hypnosis.
Thematically, that was the first idea. And then while creating this piece with the studio, the idea of like the TV came up because of the movie Poltergeist. Yeah, I love the movie cover where the little girl sitting in front of that tv.
[00:34:24] Speaker A: Iconic.
[00:34:25] Speaker B: So. Yeah, super iconic. So clearly influenced by things. And then the song that I Did it to Gosh, by Jamie xx.
I mean, just sonically, like drives you places. So there's, you know, as we create pieces, we all have so many different influences. And all that is to say is like, you know, as the creator, knowing that we're pulling from certain things, especially if it's something dance specific. Our job is to just comb through that and look and see from our perspective. Do we really feel like we're developing and interpreting our inspiration or does this look like we are replicating?
It's subjective. Again, we're all gonna might say something different, but totally.
[00:35:10] Speaker A: I think if, if you're asking yourself the question, yeah, it's worthy of some deeper digging, like, ooh, could somebody think that I stole this for? Or does this look too much like. Simply the fact that the question is there means yes, more digging is important and maybe some adjustments are required, but the first step is like, there's an instinct that's like oh, this might be close.
[00:35:35] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:35:36] Speaker A: And when the instinct says this might be close, then more digging needs to happen or like a decline maybe also needs to happen, or asking what else is there of yourself or of the client and then that gets you on your way. But yeah, every. I do. I really think everything is inspired by something else.
[00:35:55] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:35:55] Speaker A: So to have a truly original thought, I personally don't think that that exists.
[00:36:01] Speaker B: Yeah. All. All different iterations of something, perhaps combinations, fusions. But that's why I was saying, like, you know, maybe a part of the process, even if it's just sort of like, like proofreading is. Is to use this as your end process, you know, and, and even when you feel like, like, let me go back. Because I don't.
Do we think that every single person that in your opinion, plagiarizes something, does it voluntarily?
Sometimes I'm like, I don't know. I think some people might just, you know, it completely pass over and you not realize it.
Because I do think as dancers, when we watch and see stuff, we can like physicalize that and then remanifest it. You know, it's like, so maybe there's something that we can. We all just like, like similar to if you write a paper, you look at your sources like, and you re. Go back, you're about to present an evening length work, or you're in a process of a music video, whatever it may be, go back through and look at what you're doing and sort of just see if you can highlight some of the, the, the influences that might have come from this. There's something sparking when you step back and watch it, or I hand it to Dana. Does this remind you of anything? Even if you're like, I don't know if it does. You know, maybe there's a. Maybe it's a way to just help avoid these things. Because again, I don't think everyone who maybe falls under the umbrella of a plagiari. Plagiarism or plagiarism is doing it voluntarily, you know, and it's, it's hard because sometimes it's really minuscule, you know, and sometimes it's not.
[00:37:27] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:37:27] Speaker B: So I don't know. Is this a process that we all, as creators, add on to the end, middle or beginning of what we're doing? Hand it off to a friend. Like a proofread. Yeah. You know, and if, if. Because like you're saying, you know, you.
[00:37:40] Speaker A: The edit in the editing phase.
[00:37:42] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:37:43] Speaker A: You read and reread and share with another person.
[00:37:47] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:37:47] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:37:48] Speaker B: Especially if you're, you know, getting a treatment with references.
You have the specific things you could be using and comparing it to. Because that, that, that does become hard if I'm just creating freely with no specific references. Obviously there's something in my mind, but maybe not super tangible. You know, it's hard to maybe put them side to side. But if you have those references, maybe a great thing to just like, I'm gonna split, I'll split the screen and play them simultaneously. Who knows what comes up.
[00:38:12] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:38:12] Speaker B: And it's just a way to avoid it.
Yeah. Because I think you're right. We are influenced always by something and we're just having these iterations of things and you know. Yeah.
[00:38:22] Speaker A: In the, in the social media climate right now, really love how you showed up for that. It was such a great example of leadership and compassion and somebody who puts an emphasis, as much emphasis on learning as they do on making original work, which, yeah, is great and is awesome. But we're all students still, and, and especially this person who is actually student age.
[00:38:43] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:38:43] Speaker A: And I just, I, I, man, I think the way the problem was brought to light was tactless and I think the way that it was addressed on your behalf was very tactful.
[00:38:55] Speaker B: And so thank you for saying that. I appreciate it.
[00:38:57] Speaker A: Shout you out for that.
[00:38:58] Speaker B: Thank you. Appreciate it.
[00:38:59] Speaker A: Not easy, man.
[00:39:00] Speaker B: No, it's definitely not.
[00:39:02] Speaker A: But especially knowing that you're coming from like a vacation moment plucked from your real life world to deal with the thing that you didn't expect or want to be.
[00:39:11] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
[00:39:13] Speaker A: Well, thank you for reopening that up today also.
[00:39:15] Speaker B: Yeah, I think you're right. I mean, it's cool. It's like we use these things to just like, propel our community because ultimately we're all better.
[00:39:22] Speaker A: Do better.
[00:39:23] Speaker B: All. Still. It's still. You're still my community, you're still my peer, like, and I don't. Yeah, we just push forward and move on and maybe there's a way to, you know, move past this in a more progressive way that just elevates everyone else's stuff, you know? Yeah.
[00:39:38] Speaker A: Thank you for that.
[00:39:39] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:39:40] Speaker A: Speaking of elevating, I understand you have an interesting. A release date coming up.
November 3rd.
So this, this work. Yeah, the, the work in, in not in question, but this work, the one that you set four years ago.
[00:39:56] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:39:56] Speaker A: Became a film.
[00:39:58] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:39:58] Speaker A: Tell me what it's about. So actually you mentioned where it came from, the idea of being like, oversaturated. Oversaturated, Overstimulated to the Point of.
[00:40:06] Speaker B: Yeah, Full numbness. Like hypnosis Zombie. Yeah.
[00:40:10] Speaker A: But tell me about making the thing. What did you love about making it? What was hard about making it? Because that's another thing I respect the shit out of you for is being a part of other people's projects that are big and making, but also making your own shit.
[00:40:22] Speaker B: It's my favorite.
[00:40:23] Speaker A: Oh, my.
[00:40:23] Speaker B: You guys talk about this all the time.
[00:40:25] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:40:25] Speaker B: Yeah. So I'll start by saying I do a lot of studio work, like on the weekends. A lot of our friends do this. And I was feeling the last couple of years particularly just like I want to do something that I want this stuff to not feel so terminal. I work so hard on it and it takes so much energy.
[00:40:45] Speaker A: And then you walk away from it.
[00:40:46] Speaker B: And then you walk away from it. And some of them, but all of them I love, but some of them, you know, just like when we make stuff for anything, like, some of them really resonate. And this one in particular, I was just like, I kept thinking about it and not to say that I thought that that version didn't have anywhere to grow because everything we make, I really think has potential to develop.
But I.
I have been really wanting to just further my career and try to widen my audience and also expand my portfolio because I want to work more creatively. Just like, so I need to make things. I need to show what I' love this attitude. Yeah.
[00:41:21] Speaker A: Make the kind of work that you want to be doing.
[00:41:23] Speaker B: Yes. Make the work I want to be doing. Practice it. Practice collaboration and. And, yeah. And have this living portfolio of stuff that I.
No matter what it gets into or what it gets accepted to, who sees it, I love. Because you cannot tell me anything if I love it.
[00:41:40] Speaker A: Come on.
[00:41:41] Speaker B: You know.
[00:41:41] Speaker A: Oh, what a great position.
[00:41:43] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:41:43] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:41:44] Speaker B: So. So it started from there. So I just. It was a schedule thing. Sometimes I'm just like, I need it on a calendar and then I'll do it.
[00:41:50] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:41:50] Speaker B: So it was that.
And I had my favorite people involved, as always. Entity is in there with a couple of sprinkles of some close friends.
And the, the.
The idea of it and the feeling of it, this over consumption to the point of numbness, this really cathartic movement and this glazed over face was in the original. The TV was in the original. Everything from there was just reinterpreted. How can I, like, how can I allude to this idea of numbness through really cathartic movement? Numbness usually makes me feel like really still.
[00:42:24] Speaker A: Right. But there's something dance about stillness.
[00:42:27] Speaker B: Yeah. There's something internal about the vibrations and the chaos that's happening when you can't move.
[00:42:32] Speaker A: Like, static actually moves still.
[00:42:34] Speaker B: Yeah. And it's like, in. In this case, the film is like. It's a little darker, so it's like the. The feeling of it is like.
It's a scary feeling to not be able to move because of something you're just constantly seeing. You know, you almost like. It's like, what happens to our vessel when this turns off?
It's like, you know, as dancers, we know, like our body has a mind of its own, so it's playing with, like, all these different ideas.
So, yeah, I booked the space. I really wanted to work with a DP this time, and I worked with dp, and his name's Tyler Wilcox. He's awesome and had the best team.
And that was really cool for me, too, to just, like, get a little bit more insight to more of the technicalities of things. I love seeing and making, but sometimes I'm. I still need to learn some of the technicalities and the specificities.
[00:43:25] Speaker A: For sure. Because you were in college getting your BS in mechanical engineering when other people were studying film and filmmaking.
[00:43:31] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:43:32] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:43:32] Speaker B: Yeah. I think I spent the last, like, five months while traveling and stuff, editing it.
[00:43:41] Speaker A: And you edited yourself?
[00:43:42] Speaker B: Hell, yeah.
[00:43:43] Speaker A: Hell yeah.
[00:43:44] Speaker B: Same dude.
[00:43:44] Speaker A: I'm the same.
[00:43:45] Speaker B: It's like, if you don't.
It's like, it.
It's part of the work. It's part of the choreography. I'm like that. It's been a long process, and I like to do everything as legitimately as possible.
Music rights.
[00:43:58] Speaker A: Okay, See, you're one step past me on that front.
[00:44:03] Speaker B: For.
[00:44:03] Speaker A: For personal projects. I have never gone through those channels to get music rights. I'm more of a. Ask for forgiveness than permission.
[00:44:14] Speaker B: For sure.
[00:44:14] Speaker A: What was that? What's the process?
[00:44:16] Speaker B: So you. It depends on the song itself. Sometimes if it's small enough, you can reach out specifically to the artist.
[00:44:22] Speaker A: That's what the Seaweed sisters have done in the past is like the indirect. Yeah. Side door.
[00:44:26] Speaker B: Yeah, but. So you either go. You can search catalogs, you, like, ASCAP or bmi, and it'll tell you, like, who has the publishing rights and the master license to it. In this case, for this song, I had to get.
I have to get permission from the master license, who owns it, and then also the publishing, which is Universal.
Universal. I have not gotten a response from after, like, four emails, two months of waiting, and the. The people who own them that have the master license. To it were really quick, but they are waiting for the other. It's such a bitch. Like it's so. And there are certain things that I can get because I do want to submit it to festivals. I love playing it on big screens, but not all festival. Some festivals require music. Right.
[00:45:11] Speaker A: You have to own every.
[00:45:13] Speaker B: And also my big thing that I was really working for was nowness. And I wanted it. I submitted to nowness, which at this point I don't think it got in. Which I'm cool with again because I'm like, I love it. So. Okay.
Yeah, so it's fine. So I just. I want to practice that because the logistics of things like land permits, film permits, which I've done for all spaces too. It's just like I want. If I take 15 people out to the dry lake bed and three, even if it's just 20 of us and you just drove two and a half hours, I'm not turning away because a ranger just came out. You guys can't feel. So to me, I like to just understand how that stuff works. Shit gets expensive. Yep. It's crazy. And I pay all the dancer. I pay everyone who's involved. So like it's a big investment, but it's also a really good learning.
[00:46:01] Speaker A: So are you comfortable sharing an over. Under a ballpark of what I spent? Yeah.
[00:46:08] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:46:08] Speaker A: You can say no.
[00:46:09] Speaker B: Also no. I told. I'm so open to it. I at least spent 5,000.
[00:46:12] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:46:13] Speaker B: Yeah, at least 5,000. And I got a really good deal on the space. Yeah. All the dancers, like, of course, everyone deserves more. But I just want to be in the practice of. Even though it's just my project, you're still here's some compensation for your time. You know, to me it's like it's. It's part of the job. And it's just a way of me showing my appreciation for you showing up, you know, in hopes that maybe one day someone with more money wants to do this.
[00:46:39] Speaker A: And you know this because this project is a bid at more work.
[00:46:43] Speaker B: Yeah.
It's a practice of things I love to do.
It's a exhibit of how I would interpret a film in its entirety.
And yeah, it's a way for people to see what I do and see the potential of it working for their project or their artist or their. Whoever it may be.
I want to be creating in this world more. And I think that I have something to offer. So the way I have to prove that is by making my stuff. And it's fucking fun. Fun.
[00:47:12] Speaker A: And it's fun.
[00:47:13] Speaker B: It's so fun. Yeah.
[00:47:15] Speaker A: Cost money to make money would be the short answer here.
[00:47:18] Speaker B: Yeah. I still wouldn't. I wouldn't give it up.
[00:47:20] Speaker A: And we know. Yeah. I wouldn't change a thing about it. And in fact, I think it's one of the greatest privileges to be spending the money I made doing the thing that I love on making more thing that I love.
[00:47:31] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:47:32] Speaker A: I'm so excited to see Pepper. Right? Is what it's called.
[00:47:35] Speaker B: Pepper.
[00:47:35] Speaker A: I can't wait to see it.
[00:47:36] Speaker B: Thank you.
[00:47:37] Speaker A: Good luck with Nowness and the others. But I. I also thrilled for you. Thrilled to know you. Thrilled to have taken your dance class and to be watching you flexing your maker muscles. It's just. It's the coolest thing.
[00:47:51] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah, I feel that. Yeah, you too.
[00:47:53] Speaker A: Are you ready for this? We're gonna do rapid fire burnout.
[00:47:55] Speaker B: Let's go.
[00:47:56] Speaker A: Dogs or cats?
[00:47:57] Speaker B: Dogs. I love cats. Over dogs.
[00:48:00] Speaker A: Coffee or tea?
[00:48:00] Speaker B: Coffee.
[00:48:01] Speaker A: Beer or wine? Beer.
What's your favorite vegetable?
[00:48:04] Speaker B: Ooh. Bok choy.
[00:48:06] Speaker A: Say it with no teeth.
[00:48:09] Speaker B: Without opening bonk.
[00:48:13] Speaker A: Will. Do you remember that game that we played at camp that year at Fusion? Camp at Fusion. Cuz we also at camp together, basically.
[00:48:22] Speaker B: Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Was this the one with the headphones or Different?
[00:48:26] Speaker A: Different.
Everybody claimed a name. I taught my nieces this game, by the way.
And you can do different categories. Like we did vegetables, but you could do like denim or states in the US or whatever. And I'm like, okay, I'm Delaware. And you choose yours. And there's a rhythm. And I would say my name. I'd say Delaware, Colorado. And you, if you were Colorado, you'd be like Colorado. And then you'd say Riley State, which she hasn't claimed.
[00:48:51] Speaker B: But what's your poppy?
[00:48:52] Speaker A: California. Great.
[00:48:54] Speaker B: Colorado.
[00:48:56] Speaker A: We're nailing it.
Is it just the single? I don't know.
[00:49:01] Speaker B: I like the double.
[00:49:01] Speaker A: Okay, cool, cool. So Delaware, California.
Great.
[00:49:09] Speaker B: California. Nope. Colorado. Oh, I lost. And then I would go to Delaware.
She said, what's happening over here?
[00:49:17] Speaker A: She's like, There was clapping. She's been digging. She's been digging.
[00:49:22] Speaker B: I love it.
[00:49:23] Speaker A: Riz has been digging. And now she has an extra accessories under her nails. Okay. Anyways, the rounds of the game goes like this. First of all, you go out if you say the wrong name or if you forget the pattern.
The speed increases over time. So the clapping gets quicker, it gets harder, and then there are less people. You have to clock who's in and who's out. It gets really challenging. But the final tier, the most challenging tier, is that you have to say all of those things without showing your teeth.
And now you're just laughing hysterically.
[00:49:52] Speaker B: Nowhere.
[00:49:53] Speaker A: Exactly. California. Yeah. When you do vegetables, rutabaga is a really good one.
[00:50:00] Speaker B: Yes. I remember this.
[00:50:01] Speaker A: I was crying playing this game for my first time ever in my life with you.
[00:50:05] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:50:06] Speaker A: My favorite vegetable really is bok choy. Bok choy. Do you want to try to answer director questions like that?
I'll try to ask him. When's your last time you took a ballet class?
[00:50:15] Speaker B: Oh, hell.
Oh, I got accident on that one.
Honestly, I think it was.
I think it was my fifth year in college.
That's crazy.
[00:50:27] Speaker A: What's the last song that you belted out loud?
[00:50:30] Speaker B: Oh, I. Today Our Shine. You know. I love Rosalia.
[00:50:35] Speaker A: Oh, I do know. Wait, go ahead, Rosalia.
[00:50:39] Speaker B: Try to control the Russell.
[00:50:43] Speaker A: Good job. It actually was better.
[00:50:44] Speaker B: It's hard to do that. Yeah. I was trying to belt some of those lyrics today for her new dude. She's like, that's my dream. That is.
She is like.
Everything she does is so groundbreaking to me and unlocks something in me, and I love. I want to see this in myself, too, as an artist, but something I feel like she embodies is like true contemporary, true interpretation and at the same of the new, but still honoring the old. And she's just like. She's a. A shape shifter. I'm like, the stuff that I hear come from her work has so much range, and I feel something from all of them. Like, I think she's just insanely incredible. But this new song is wild. The video is insane, and I think it's very.
That she starts singing in.
[00:51:36] Speaker A: She sings in three languages in this one.
[00:51:38] Speaker B: Yeah. It's like, I. So. Any. I don't know the lyrics, but I was like, you know how they come on Spotify. But there's ripping it.
[00:51:43] Speaker A: You were ripping it.
[00:51:44] Speaker B: Yeah, I was loud in the car. I had that on repeat. It's so incredible.
[00:51:49] Speaker A: Love that for you. I want to hear you sing. Will you leave me a voice note next time?
Last one. Are you ready?
[00:51:54] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:51:55] Speaker A: What are the words that move you? A North Star guiding principle mantra. Something that is that you keep coming.
[00:52:01] Speaker B: Back to lead with love for sure. Like, whatever you do, whoever you're with, wherever you are, like, lead what you do and how you act in your life with love.
[00:52:14] Speaker A: I can't think of a better place to end it, my friend.
[00:52:16] Speaker B: Yeah. Thank you so much. You're so welcome.
[00:52:19] Speaker A: Thank you for doing this.
[00:52:20] Speaker B: Love you so much. That was awesome.
[00:52:22] Speaker A: Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you. Listener, viewer. You do this whole thing. Oh yeah. Okay, my friends, thank you for watching. Thank you for being here. Click the bell for notifications. Subscribe Leave a review, a rating and get out there and keep it really funky.
[00:52:40] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:52:42] Speaker A: This podcast was produced by me with the help of many. Big, big love to our executive assistant and editor, Riley Higgins. Our communications manager is Fiona Small with additional support from Ori Vajadares. Our music is by Max Winnie, logo and brand design by Bri Reitz. And if you're digging the podcast, leave a review and rating and please share. Also, if you want to connect with me and the many marvelous members of the Words that Move Me community, visit wordsthatmoveme. Com. If you're simply curious to know more about me and the work that I do outside of this podcast, visit thedanawilson.com.
