247. The Reel Response: Parents of IG Speak Their Truth

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign. Yes. Yeah, we're doing it. Hi. I know. Am I the only person feeling slightly, like, nervous, excited? Somebody did tell me that fear and excitement are the exact same thing. The only difference is breath. So I'm going to take a good, deep breath with my tongue out, so you know, it's a good one. As I welcome a gorgeous round table of parents to words that move me. Thank you all so much for being here. Listener, viewer, thank you for being here. This is a really, really special episode. We're having this round table in response to the comment section of an Instagram reel that I posted recently. Like, maybe a weekend ago. Two weekends ago. Time is slippery, though, y'. All. Forgive me. That Instagram reel is a small clip, like, less than 30 second clip from a podcast episode I released about a year ago with the one and only, the fabulous Caroline diamond, who is a comedian, educator, and dancer herself. We're going to play that clip for you now so that you understand the context of this conversation. So if you're also not the favorite in your dance class, keep persevering because you will end up sticking with it other than the people who were the favorites. [00:01:18] Speaker B: And then now. [00:01:19] Speaker A: No shade, no hate. [00:01:21] Speaker C: You have babies now. [00:01:22] Speaker B: And. [00:01:23] Speaker A: And that's fine. [00:01:24] Speaker B: No, it's fine. [00:01:25] Speaker A: Success means differently to everybody. But just know, if you're 14, going through the depths of hell, and at your ugliest point of life, you will come out on top. All right, my friends, the intent of that clip is far different than the actual impact of that clip. And if I were given the chance to do things differently, I absolutely would. But I'm profoundly grateful to have landed where we are right now, which is in the middle of a deep and heated and important conversation about parenting in the entertainment industry. It is hugely clear to me that this is a conversation that needs to happen. And I'm so grateful for everybody who's in the room right now and to everybody who weighed in on the comments section for illuminating parts of this conversation that I did not see, for showing me my blind spots, and for helping me care for this community that I deeply, deeply care about. So thank you all again for being here. I'm going to ask all of my guests to introduce themselves. Anything you would like us to know about you. I'll go ahead and start. My name is Dana Wilson. [00:02:34] Speaker D: Hi. [00:02:34] Speaker A: For those that don't know me, if I have any new listeners to this episode, which I'm really hoping that I do, I am a dancer. I'm a choreographer. I'm a movement Coach. I'm a seaweed sister. I am a lover of people, truly. I think the podcast host and me started more recently, like within the last five years. Words that Move Me has found itself on Apple's top 100 performing arts cast multiple times. Super, super proud of that. And oh my God, how can I forget? I'm also one of the vice presidents of the Choreographers Guild. Advocating for artists is hugely important to me. Probably as important as actual dancing my body. So that's me. Nice to meet you all, if we haven't already met. [00:03:17] Speaker E: What's up? My name is Ava Mitchell, formerly Ava Bernstein. I'm a professional dancer, choreographer. I have been dancing for over 30 years. Professionally. I'm college graduate, part of the Choreographers Guild and a member of the local board at SAG aftra. So I participate in negotiations and all those things. I'm a mother, I'm a wife, and I love words. [00:03:47] Speaker F: Hey, everyone. I'm Lisette Bustamante. I currently live in Atlanta, Georgia, formerly Los Angeles, California. We'll get into that later. I'm a dancer. I'm a choreographer. I'm a mama. I'm a maker, I'm an educator, I'm a cook. I make school lunches in the morning. I schlep, carpools. I do a lot of things and wear a lot of hats. [00:04:18] Speaker D: I'm happy to be here. [00:04:19] Speaker F: I'm happy to connect with all of you. And just really quick, thank you so much to Dana for just. [00:04:26] Speaker A: What you. [00:04:27] Speaker F: Do and what you provide for dancers, but also being so responsible in this conversation and having this conversation. I think it's really awesome. I'm happy to be here. I'm happy to talk. [00:04:38] Speaker G: Hi, everyone. My name's Claude Racine. I was a professional dancer and choreographer for 18 years. I am now a wife and a mom and only really dance on TikTok with my husband almost every Tuesday and for my church. And I also make lunches every day and breakfasts and make beds and love it. [00:05:02] Speaker H: Hi, I'm Brittany Perry Russell. I'm an actor, a choreographer, a producer, still dancing actually. And I'm a cold blooded single mother. I think the thing that I love the most about my career is I gave birth to another human who shares the same passion as me. So I have a unique perspective in the fact that I started my dance career pretty much as a mother and then now I have a son who does the same thing. So now I've kind of transitioned as well into being a momager. So yeah. And I've been dancing in this business for over 20 years. [00:05:41] Speaker D: Hi everybody, my name is Mel Ma. My passion has always really been to spread light and try to make impact in the ways that feel that I feel very connected to. So for a long time it was through dance I met most of you through dancing. Professionally, I've transitioned into filmmaking. So I write, direct and produce and I'm also a yoga and meditation teacher. So I own my own company called you got this girl where I empower women through mindfulness. And I also work for the app. Com. Oh and cannot forget I am a mother and the mother to a 19 month old baby boy. I'm from Toronto, but I'm actually living in Toronto right now for that very reason. Because as we all know here, becoming a parent changes your perspective on everything. So coming to Canada and raising him here felt like the best thing for all of us and especially for him. [00:06:34] Speaker B: Hi everyone, I'm Jessica Castro. I've been in the business for almost three years. I currently live in New York. I am a mom to a 13 year old, almost 14 year old girl. I'm a dancer, choreographer, educator. Currently I am the associate choreographer for Cabaret at the Kit Kat Club on Broadway. Yeah. And I'm here to talk all things. [00:07:04] Speaker C: Mom business, you know. [00:07:08] Speaker I: Hi there. My name is Scott Hislop. 31 years in this business as a dancer, choreographer, actor, host, writer, anything else they'll pay me for. But all of that pales in comparison to being Birdie's dad, who is my three and a half year old daughter. [00:07:28] Speaker A: Who I had the pleasure of meeting recently and is not three and a half. She is 30 and a half mentally and emotionally. I was just like, who is this tiny adult that we are having dinner with right now? Rocked. So rocked by her. [00:07:44] Speaker C: Hey, what's up you guys? I'm Janet Langer. I'm super honored to be here. This is super awesome to see you guys. All of, I mean some of you I don't know yet, but a lot of you here I've looked up to for so many years. So this is so rad. I've been in this business for 25ish years. Dancing, choreographing, production, little bit of acting. Currently I'm a pole dancer and a pole dance instructor and a mom. I have a five year old and yeah, super excited to be here. Thank you, Dana. [00:08:12] Speaker A: Well, gi. [00:08:13] Speaker J: Hi everyone. I'm Marianne. I am a dance educator, choreographer, professional dancer, dance business owner, mentor and mama currently in Baltimore right now. We just moved here last week and I am doing a artist in residency at Peabody Conservatory. And my son just started kindergarten at a brand new school on Monday. [00:08:38] Speaker A: So big steps, big steps. Thank you for being here. I should also add for this conversation importantly, I am not a mother. I will be holding down the not a mother perspective. I am the auntie to two incredible nieces, 11 and 7 years old. I am here in my sister's office right now on mom duty. It is the second week of middle school for the eldest and of second grade for the seven year old and I'm doing pickups and drop offs. I think it is important to say I do love kids. I teach them often. I'm a proud auntie. It is my decision at this time in my life to not be a mom. And I'm so grateful to have all of these wonderful working moms who have literally shaped my life. I'm the daughter of a single working mom. My dance teacher is a working mom. Most of the women in my life, most of the, like the people that have really shaped my world are moms. And I know the power of this community. So thanks again you guys. Let's get into this, shall we? Okay. My friends, I have asked all of you just for the sake of time, to come prepared with a few tight answers to a few important questions. The first is what about your work life changed the most when you became a parent? And I know that the answer to this question is probably everything about your work life changed when you became a parent. At least that's what I can imagine. But I'm wondering, and I would love to hear the things that stand out the most to you, what changed about your work landscape when you became a parent? [00:10:07] Speaker E: What changed for me, firstly, my body changed. Oftentimes I was associate choreographer and I would dance on all the jobs I worked and I would choreograph after having a baby. I just felt different in my body. So I did less dancing on screen. Family calendars developed because time management is important. All the witches and wheres you know and you know, really counting on your village. You find out who your people are. Lucky for me, I have family here and they're very involved. And so that big change and then you're focused period, overall changes your intention of why you're doing stuff, what you decide to do because your time is very precious and what you decide not to do. So all those things you get very conscious of. Yeah, that, that, that's overall what, what really change. [00:10:59] Speaker F: So yeah, very similar to what Ava was saying, I think, you know, time freedom for sure. I used to Be in LA and meet for coffees and cute little moments with my friends. And I can still do that, but it has to be strategically scheduled now and then. Yes, like, letting go of my attachment to what my body was prior wasn't the same, but it comes back in a different, more strong way. I find, like, now I feel really incredibly strong and really capable of doing anything with my body. Where I think I was in my body differently when I was dancing, it was kind of like, you know, looking a certain way and making sure that my body was in tip top shape to look a certain way. And after having kids, it was about being strong and holding space and feeling good in my body and less about the outside, more about the inside. So I would say those things. And then for me, I don't know about you guys, but I became really organized. I was always organized, but now it's like streamlined. You want something done, I can get it done. And that muscle has been really worked throughout these years of being a mom. And I just feel like it's a great gift that came on the other side of it. [00:12:20] Speaker G: I want to say I think a few of us had Covid babies, but I had my son in January 2020 and then had like two jobs after that. And then Covid hit and the whole industry shut down. And I actually had really debilitating postpartum depression. I was suicidal for like a year after having my son. So that is a possibility of that happening. But I think for me, it was like I couldn't just escape into something else. I had to really confront this new era of my life, of being a mom. And it was not my favorite thing to do at first. When my son was born and I also gained 40 pounds and like, didn't recognize my body and it felt like, oh, I have no control over my mind and now I have no control over my body, which I'd been able to control as a dancer for, you know, 18 years and learning how to love my new life. But what was really going on was this constant dialogue of stability for my son. And it was no longer this focus about, like, me and my career and like, what's the next job and what else can I do, but more of, like, what life can I create now that is going to be stable for him where I can, like, be with him? So I imagined all the time staying home and building something from home. And so my entire focus shifted from, like, me and my career and what can I do to him and how can I provide a better life for him? [00:13:47] Speaker D: Yeah, I can totally piggyback off that about how your focus and your priorities just shift immensely. You know, the direct answer to that question about what changed the most about your work life is like, you just don't have as much time to do the work that you did before. And there's actually something really beautiful about that because then you really have to ask yourself what's actually important. And for me, at least before becoming a parent, it's like work and career seems so all encompassing. It's like this is all that matters. And then when you get so ripped out of your skin, especially if you've birthed your own child and you have to go through all the, you know, challenges of healing your body and understanding your mind in a whole new place, you're really forced to ask what's important to you. And in fact, now, you know, I'm still in the middle of postpartum because I'm still within the two year mark. I still am noticing my mind and my work and how those things interact with each other, but I'm seeing it so much as a benefit. Like there's so much magic that comes with you questioning yourself and then having to come out on the other side knowing yourself with far more wisdom than before having a child. [00:14:47] Speaker H: I understand exactly what everyone's saying, but for me, because I had Isaiah Young, I met his dad when I was 20, I actually started to work more, which probably wasn't healthy, but I was in total survival mode. A lot of you in this group have seen me in rehearsals with my son, on tour with my son, and I was really blessed in the fact that my mom and dad literally dropped everything. So while on tour with Sierra, my mom was in the hotel room with me. And I know that that's not normal, but again, I was in full on survival mode. I think what changed for me was boundaries. When you become a parent, you start thinking about everything. Like for me, when I would take jobs, it was about the money. But when I had my son, okay, do I want to be in hot shorts and a crop top? Do I want to do this? Would my son be proud? Do I want to bring him to set, you know, dealing with this? And so that was a big thing for me. It also changed my perspective just in how I treated other dancers. I think that's why I became a mentor because, you know, I, I saw how I was treated as a young dancer. That was a mother. I think half of the jobs that I did while I was pregnant, I was definitely sneaking because just even mentioning to you know, certain people that I wasn't on a job with when I'm pregnant, you would see the confusion, the disappointment, the strange, like, energy that you get when you become a parent in this industry. Like, almost as if you're washed up. And I'm like, I'm only 22, you know, and I think it's just a lack of understanding what it looks like to be a parent. It doesn't make you less talented. It doesn't make you less cool. As. As a matter of fact, I. I feel like I became more fear fearless and started to work harder when I became a parent. And I think that that's something that a lot of people miss. They make fun of you being a parent, which is very weird to me because I've done my best work being a mom. [00:16:53] Speaker B: You know, I'm a witness to it. I mean, I'm going to answer this question, but I have to piggyback on what Brit just said. Like, I remember we were dancing for a heavy D, and I think Isaiah was probably like, five. Was. I say like five. He was like, yeah, like, young. And. And this is before I even thought about being a mom. And I just remember we were in rehearsal and he was in the corner, you know, and Brit had all the things for him and looked at her and I said, wow, he's like. He just knows his way around the room. Don't you ever feel, I think I asked you something like, you know, are they okay with having him here? Like, are they okay? And you responded very quickly to me, and you said, literally, you said, I will never apologize for being a mom. [00:17:45] Speaker H: That sounds about right. [00:17:47] Speaker B: It stuck with me. And it was. When I had Josephine, it was something that I replayed in my mind when. When I felt very doubtful, when I felt insecure. Like, it was like, no, Brit. Brit will never apologize for being a mom. And I'm not either. Like, it's literally something that I would. It was like my mantra now, going and answering this question, what changed for me? I think I went through a couple of phases. You know, when I first had her as a single parent, it was like this idea that I had to take every job because I didn't want people to forget about me. And I was doing it alone, you know, which was really hard. So I was like, I just took everything that I could, even though at times, physically and emotionally, I wasn't ready. You know, she was still a baby. I was nursing her. But thankfully I had women like Fatima Robinson, who, when I had her, you know, Fatima hit Me up at like two months and was like, hey, girl, I know you just had her, but can you do this job in Brazil? And I was like, I can't leave just yet. She was like, okay, I'll come back to you. Three months later, hey, girl, I'm doing this job in New York. Can you do it? And I was like, I don't know. Fatima. I'm nursing her. She's crying all the time. And Fatima literally said to me, she said, who's watching her? I was like, well, my mom is helping me. And she said, bring your mom. Bring the baby to rehearsal. So what I did, I brought my mom the baby. I brought the little playpen with me, literally. So in between, you know, rehearsals, I would go out, I would nurse her, my mom would take her. We had a whole corner set up for her. So I think, you know, my journey with it, as she got older, was more when it came to work was, is this worth leaving her for this amount of time? How is this going to benefit us financially and as a family? [00:19:57] Speaker I: So I think the biggest thing that changed for me, I think there's to be. In this industry, no matter what facet you work in, there's a certain amount of not knowing what's next that I used to love. It was a thrill for me. People like, what's going on next? I'm like, I don't know. We'll see, right? And I kind of. It was my thrill seeking. I loved not knowing what was next. I sort of trusted and, you know, after the years of building something, but, you know, I just trusted and I kind of got off on that. After having a child, it is stressful. I don't like not knowing. And, you know, that is an exercise in stress management, I think, because I think I have to do a lot of calming myself down and I'm like, we're fine. And if you take stock, I go, oh, no, we're fine. I will never be. I know myself too well. I'm not a 9 to 5 guy, so I don't think necessarily that's the answer, but I'm still sort of searching and trying to discover what that is in terms of stability and security and. And it's a daily, weekly, monthly journey for me. It's something that I used to love, and I don't like it very much anymore. That said, I want to say one more point. One of the biggest things I've learned, and I had sort of, I guess maybe a cursory understanding of this before, but now I truly understand it single moms and single dads, because they're out there too. Single parents are the heroes of this world. Because I, you know, there's two of us, my husband and I, and I can't even imagine. And I've got one. And so I just, I. Since probably, you know, the second week, I was just sort of really. That dawned on me so much. And so I just want to give my hat off, you know, bow down to the single parents. Make the world go round. Thank you. [00:22:15] Speaker A: Cosine. I think, Scott, also unique to you, but definitely not unique to everybody that both you and your partner are in the entertainment industry. So that uncertainty and that constant seeking of something consistent is happening for both. Both parties. I'm not sure if anybody else in this room agrees. Lisette, Claude, Marianne and Ava. Yeah, absolutely. And mama. Yeah. Creatives, this is. We'll talk about more as a group in a second, but I think out of all the industries, it is possible that the entertainment industry specifically has the fewest pathways for parents the least amount of support. I'm really glad you mentioned that, Scott. Thank you so much. [00:23:01] Speaker C: Hey, you guys. So I had my baby in August 2020, so right in the heat of COVID so there was not much going on, obviously. What I still had was my desire to back my. My pole ability. I've fallen in love with pole dance, and it really kind of saved me and helped me recreate my identity. And now I'm just. I really want to be an advocate for women. I'm in my 40s. I'm going to leave that a mystery because I like a little bit of mystery. But I really want to be an advocate not just for women, but for moms, for finding your sexy maybe again or in a new way at any point in your life, literally any point in your life. And I'm. I have gratitude for being an old geriatric, as they call it, mother, so that I can be an example of that. All of the things everybody said, but to go off on a different path. What changed for me was my belief in myself about being able to rebuild, not just emotionally, but physically. Of course, you lose your abs, you lose everything. It's really like. So I remember starting to train again and being like, that's it, that's it. It's all gone. Right? Everything I. I worked for for the last few years is I got to start from. From scratch. And I did. And I went to my friend's house when we were semi allowed to, or maybe I was sneaking. I don't remember it was just me and me and one friend. We were also training on Zoom, and I did it, and I dedicated, you know, even 45 minutes just to training. Thankfully, my partner is very, very supportive, and he was obviously home from work, too, which, now that I look back, was a blessing, because our only job was to raise a newborn, and I was able to do that, and it taught me. Wow, you can rebuild. Oh, wow. You can even be stronger. And I feel the strongest, the sexiest, the most confident in this body, I think, that I've ever felt. And that goes on top of a lot of other, you know, developments through the years in addition to having a child. But really, it has taught me, like, you can rebuild. You can get even stronger than before, and I feel the strongest than that I ever have before. [00:25:21] Speaker E: I wanted to say something to that, because I think you talking about finding your sexy, because when after having Brooklyn, I may have. I physically didn't change that much. I didn't gain that much weight. I went back and did dance jobs, like, a few months after. But I felt physically different in my new body. You know what I mean? It's just foreign to you. Like, I don't feel like myself, but physically, you're like, it's fine. But, yeah, that. That's something that messes with your brain as well, is, like, how you feel in this new body as a parent. [00:25:57] Speaker C: I mean, your organs are, like, here and there and everywhere, you know, and you're like, wait, where is that machine I used to have? [00:26:04] Speaker A: Where'd it go? [00:26:05] Speaker C: You know? And you have to. I had to rebuild it. We all had to rebuild it. So that was not easy. Absolutely. I'm not. I don't want to make it sound like it was easy. It was not gears. [00:26:14] Speaker H: But what I think people don't have compassion for is we're doing it in the public eye. We're doing it at auditions. Like, I remember, I think Isaiah was, like, five weeks old when I was shooting Sierra's Promise, and we were in sports bras, and I started to cry, and everyone was like, oh, my God, you look great. Like, what's the problem? And it's so hard when you feel isolated trying to navigate, and everyone's like, what's the problem? You know, so that's not normal, and it heightens the situation. And I don't think people always understand that because we're in a business that's based on looks, barely talent. You know, it's what your skin color is, what your body looks like. So when it's foreign, to you, you're not feeling your best. I think that was something that I struggle with, just not having a listening ear or people fully understanding or even trying to understand what I had to say about my body and how I was feeling at that time. So I feel you, and you are. [00:27:13] Speaker A: Hot girl over you, Marianne. Go for it. [00:27:17] Speaker J: Yeah, I'm gonna piggyback off that. Then I'll start from the beginning. My first dance job back after having my son. I was the only person that was put in a bathing suit bottom, like, bikini bottom. And, like, I was like, please don't. They're like, you look great. And I was like, I don't feel great. Even if I look it. It's. Yeah, it's just. You can't explain it in words that they're going to understand. You kind of just have to experience it for yourself, unfortunately. But, yeah, I was a Covid mama. I had my son in April 2020. So five weeks into the shutdown with formula shortages, I breastfed. And I did it for way longer than I ever wanted to because of that reason. And it took a toll on me, like, tremendously. I'm still, like, working through all that. Try not to get emotional, because everything you said, I just. I'm like, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. And postpartum. I know you were Mel. You were saying, I'm still in it. It's technically until they're seven, and that's like postpartum until they're seven. So we have some time, but we're in it together. Yeah. So my fiance is also creative. He's a dancer. Answer choreographer. All the things teacher. And so covet, hit. And we were scared. Pros and cons. We were, like, at home a lot. And we got to raise Lorenzo, but then we were like, crap, when's my unemployment card coming in? You know? So, yeah, really, really hard times, but it gets better. It gets better. I'm gonna touch on, like, what changed for me, I would say resilience is, like, number one. I did not know I was this strong. Like, I feel like I've been in the depths, like, deep in the pits so many times, and I'm able to pull myself out, like, while caring for him. Sorry. This is, like. This is a lot. I'm sure you welcome it. [00:29:41] Speaker A: We've got you. [00:29:42] Speaker D: It's so beautiful. Marianne, seriously. [00:29:45] Speaker J: I just did a speech at my friend's wedding, and I was just like. Like, I'm so sorry. I'm a crier, but. Yeah, you too. But, I mean, well, I'm Gonna try to get it out. But I started my business loom when I was three months postpartum. I was breastfeeding my son while I was building the website. We started during COVID August 2020. And now my business baby is 5 and my real baby is 5. And seeing them grow alongside each other has been, like, so cool. And I got a really, really good piece of advice. Well, I didn't. My. My fiance did, and then he told me. But I'm sure you all know nappy tabs, they gave Mikey the advice of, like, your kid doesn't know what normal is, so bring your kid to everything. They don't know what a normal childhood is. They, they're not looking for that white picket fence. Like, go and do all the, the, you know, normal stuff, like take your kid to set, take your kid to rehearsal, take your kid to shows, take your kid on the airplane with. And we took that to heart. And I take him everywhere with me, and he is the best. He goes to all the shows with me, he goes to rehearsals with me. He's just like, he counts them in, he takes notes, he holds people's spots, and he's five. So nappy tabs, if you're listening. Thank you for that advice. Saved. Saved our lives. [00:31:25] Speaker A: Thank you, my friend. Go ahead, Jess. [00:31:27] Speaker B: Yeah, like, I think for me as a single parent, there were moments where I just didn't have the option not to bring her to the theater, not to bring her to rehearsal, not to bring her on set with me. I just, you know, I just did not have the option. So for her, you know, being able to experience that through a different lens, I think has benefited her as, and it has helped mold her in the, like, little human that she is, you know. Now I also think that going back to, you know, I don't think people or women or moms talk about enough is how your body does change. Like your bones, your limbs, like your joints. I just remember when I went back to work, you know, she was about three months old. And I remember the stylist gave me these heels and I put the heels on and I tried to dance in them and I, I really felt like my bones were gonna break. Like I felt physically weak. And I've. I've always been a very strong, like, muscular dancer. And it was the first time that I felt this out of body experience. And I don't know if anybody will ever understand unless your body goes. Unless you, your body goes through that change. And to Britt's point, I remember I was on an awards show, and one of the dancers was a mom. And, you know, of course, they always want you in the skimpiest things. And, you know, her only request was that she not show midriff. Right? Her body was snatched. But we all know that once you have a baby, you have no control over stretch marks. Like, your body can snap back, but there. There's residue. Like, there are things that stay. You know what I'm saying? Like when you nurse and now they don't. They lift it anymore, but you got to, like, you know, it's not cute. And I don't have big ones, but, like, damn. Like, they just drop. You know what I'm saying? Like, it's not cute. So I just remember, you know, one of the stylist assistants barged into the dressing room and was like, this is for the girl that doesn't want to show her midriff because of her stretch mark. And the whole room went silent. I was just like, you. Like, I could not believe what just came out of his mouth. And, you know, obviously, you know, he was spoken to. She was also spoken to. But I just don't think that people. People, and I should say anyone that is not a mom that has not gone through the transformation really fully understands the transformation and what it does to you physically. It is hard. Being a parent is beautiful, but it is fucking hard. Like, there are moments where, you know, you're in rehearsal and you look at your screen and you see the school phone number, you're like, no, no. [00:35:11] Speaker A: I. [00:35:11] Speaker B: Can'T leave right now. We in the middle of this eight count. Like, I can't leave right now because you already know who that is. That is a school nurse talking about, can you come get your kid? And you're like, I can't, because she was. You see, the school was supposed to be the sitter for the day. You know what I mean? Like, you know what, Jessica? [00:35:32] Speaker G: Like, that's why this conversation is so important and why I think the actual real triggered so many of us is because there is no understanding or compassion or reality with moms and what we're going through. And so to shed light on it and talk about it is really the only way to, like, can people have a little more sensitivity or just compassion? And I did also want to say. I didn't say earlier. I think I'm the only one here. I actually, full on, full blast, quit dancing and choreographing completely during that transition. And my son, I call him my Phoenix, and I have him. I have it tattooed Here, because he literally killed the old identity, the old version of me. And I started building a business from home that, like, completely scaled so fast, and it's all because of him. And I think a lot of women worry that kids are going to slow them down. First of all, all these women here are proof that they don't and proof that they actually can totally expand and escalate and speed up and, like, make your career bigger than it ever actually has been. Because of what happens to you as a woman when you have a kid. [00:36:48] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:36:48] Speaker F: I think there's a part of you that has to go through a grieving process of, like, the old. You kind of going away. The old body, shedding the old body, shedding the old identity. And that transition that br. That you have to walk across is so scary. It's really scary. It's frightening. You feel isolated. You feel like you're the only one. And I remember my. My husband. I'll never forget this. He called. I got a phone call one day. My phone rang, and I didn't recognize the number, And I picked it up. [00:37:19] Speaker A: And I was like, hello? [00:37:19] Speaker F: And they're like, can I speak to Lisette? And I said, yes, this is she. And they were like, yeah. Are you okay? Do you need to talk to somebody? Because your husband had reached out to us just to make sure that you didn't need to get on the phone with somebody. Because I was grieving. I was totally going through a postpartum. I was going through this sort of identity crisis, like, who am I now? Because my whole life was so tied to this girl over here for so long. And so walking the bridge was scary. It was frightening, actually, if I'm being honest. But, you know, I think you get to. Once you cross the bridge. Right. And I say this to everybody that I work with and I mentor. I'm like, there's something on the other side of it. There's something huge on the other side of it that clearly I was calling in. I was clearly calling it in for more life, more. All the things. And if I'm being completely transparent here, like, I've never been more successful than I am now as a parent. And I think what people see is this idea. Idea of success and what it looks like, your resume, your who you've worked with, all of these things. But I've never felt more successful in all the ways. And we are doing and we're thriving. And, you know, there's other things, too. You know, we left LA during COVID I had a Covid baby. And already I was kind of feeling not tied to Los Angeles anymore. Just because if I'm being really transparent here, I want a retirement, and I wanted to really put my money into somewhere. I wanted a garden, I wanted space. And also, I didn't find myself in the scene as much anymore because I had gone through all of. [00:39:07] Speaker C: All of these shifts. [00:39:08] Speaker F: And we came to Atlanta and scared. So scared. What are we doing? I don't know. We're taking a leap of faith. But it has been lovely and beautiful and we've created this new life that I couldn't. You know, 10 years ago, if you were to ask me, I would. If I would live here, I'd be like, there's no way. I'm an LA girl. I'm like, I'm not leaving. Right. Because I was this person. So there's this, like, kind of. I love the Phoenix image because it is. It's like. It's like a rebirth. And so, yes, it's hard, but I also feel like there's something on the other side. And if parenting is something that is calling you, follow it, follow it. Because there are beautiful things on the other side and new experiences and tons of growth, tons of growth and expansion for you and, you know, your family and what your next part of your life looks like. [00:40:03] Speaker A: Was that. That's so wild. [00:40:04] Speaker D: Because I literally said those exact words just this past week of. If you told me a year ago, even three months ago from now, that I would not be living in la, I would have chosen to come back to Canada. I would have thought you'd be crazy. But that's the beautiful thing about becoming a parent and becoming a mom is that your whole perspective shifts. And in order for something to shift in that seismic way. Yeah, it's going to be uncomfortable for a second. Yeah. You're going to have to really question everything. Your identity, the world around you, who you are, how you show up. And it sucks in ways, but it's also the most beautiful thing you go through as well. Right. And I think that's the thing that we have to remember, is that discomfort is not bad. Pain is not bad. There's purpose in all of it. Look at this conversation. It came from a seemingly painful moment. Right. That has now blossomed into such a beautiful, connected and inspiring conversation. And something. A big reason I came on here, too, is because Caroline actually is like one of the biggest aunties to my son. I get emotional thinking about it. She's actually one of the reasons that I've been able to Be aware of. [00:41:10] Speaker G: Working mom as well. [00:41:11] Speaker D: With my husband, we've had sometimes auditions or just meetings that pop up and I'll call her, she'll drop everything and come take care of our baby. And so in seeing her feel so misunderstood, but she being such a big part of my motherhood journey is just why I think conversations like this are so important. Because as we all know, what we see in maybe a 15 second clip or anything on social media is not what's actually happening beneath the surface. And I think that's also what we really discover as mothers is there's so much more than what we see just on the outside. There's. There's so much that's going on beneath, and we have the gift of being able to start seeing through that. [00:41:50] Speaker H: Okay, I. Because Claude addressed it, I feel the need to, you know, explain how I feel and why I'm here. You know, when you say something like, I think, Danny, you started out and said that that clip was intentional. Use the word intentional. I watched it four or five times. Right. And I don't know Caroline, and I know she's a comedian, but I think there were a few things that stuck out to me and it was triggering for me as well, Claude, because I think first and foremost, I'm always in awe of the fact that when comments like that come out of dancers, it's always gender specific and it's the mother that's attacked. The person who carries a kid that goes through all of the postpartum that has to suffer the most is always the one that's made fun of. And I want to ask you guys, why do you think that's the case? Because it's always the case 99% of the time. Secondly, Dana, when you say that Cliff was intentional, I would love to know what you wanted to get out of posting that clip. Like what. What did you want people to get from it? Because clearly people were upset. So I. I would love to know, like, what. What were we supposed to get from it? [00:43:14] Speaker A: Yeah. I'm happy to address this conversation, but my intention for this roundtable is really to give parents voices on parenting. And especially since Caroline isn't here to defend herself, I want to talk less about the clip and more about your experiences as parenting. But 100% will answer this question for us in the room today because I know it is important. I don't. I. The clip is intentional because I posted it, period, the end. But I don't think I used that word in this today. It was the impact of. It was not its intent. The impact of the clip was not its intent at all. What happened? Again, this podcast was released a year ago and no noise, no ripples, no flames, no comments, no ruffled feathers at all. A year ago. I do my podcast in seasons now, eight weeks on, four weeks off. And during the four weeks off, I try to reuse old episodes because as I'm sure you've all experienced, the social media algorithm is asking for more, more, more. And my format is long format. I have evergreen content. I've got interviews for days, 245 episodes to date. So during my breaks, I try to be re releasing pieces from old episodes. And on one day before we went on this, what actually became a 5 week break, I reviewed over 25 reels side by side, one after the other, after the other, after, after the other after the other, and approved them or didn't approve them. And because I'm not a mother, I had a blind spot with this podcast. It didn't strike me as being offensive. I had also the context in my memory of this entire episode being basically a standup routine by Caroline and me. The at times, actually frequently the uncomfortable, laughing audience member who's going to see a comedian perform and they say some wild shit. And I am in shock, not knowing what to say or what not to. What to say or what not to say. And in retrospect, I don't think this clip was intentional. I think it was extremely shortsighted. I think with this clip and its caption, I managed to not only offend a community that I seek to protect, but also throw my guest under the bust. It's a huge, A hugely embarrassing moment for me and I'm. I have tools to handle embarrassment. I think Malma mentioned feeling misunderstood. Oof, y'. [00:45:56] Speaker B: All. [00:45:56] Speaker A: It's one of my least favorite feelings. I hate feeling misunderstood, especially in the. In this particular way, which is the group of people I intend to help is the group of people I accidentally harm. I hope that answers your question. [00:46:15] Speaker H: You know I love you. [00:46:16] Speaker F: I think the fact that you're doing this shows a lot of care. And, and I know that about you, Dana, for sure. I know that about you. I think what I felt it. I didn't take it so offensively, but for me, what. What I felt initially after it was the first thing, you know, when you open your phone and you go click on Instagram, it's like the first thing I was like, oh, like, oh. [00:46:41] Speaker B: That was a lot. [00:46:42] Speaker F: And I usually don't speak on many things unless I feel the need to. And for this one, I felt like it was important to say something just because I wish I had an expander when I was a young dancer to say, like, you don't have to be waiting to be the favorite or to be picked. Like, and. And you can also want to be a parent, and that's really cool. And all of the things. [00:47:10] Speaker A: Right. [00:47:10] Speaker F: So I think that's more of what I was like, oh, oh. Like, you know, And I'm sure a lot of us feel similarly. [00:47:16] Speaker C: It's like, oh. [00:47:17] Speaker F: But our voice also wants to be heard, so I think that's what you've created here, and I get it 100%. But I think, yeah, there's that responsibility of going, like, I. I definitely want to be someone for younger generations to go, like, actually, yes, it's hard, but I can do that. Instead of, like, I have to seek to prove. [00:47:37] Speaker A: Right. [00:47:37] Speaker F: What am I constantly after? This perpetual hamster wheel of, like, you know, like, there's more to life than being picked. There's so much more, and it's expansive. Right. So, yeah. [00:47:49] Speaker G: But I think the idea of, like, the woman who hustles and builds a business and who keeps going and. And dances till she's 70, like, brav. [00:48:01] Speaker J: Oh. [00:48:01] Speaker G: But the woman who chooses to, like, maybe not do that and have a child, like, oh, you gave up. Oh, you're not as. You know, you're not as revered. [00:48:13] Speaker A: And. [00:48:13] Speaker G: And I'm actually, like, so in my mom era of, like, standing up for moms, because I woke up to the fact that I'm running around like a dude, because I think that that's what's respectable and that's what's valuable, because I've been taught that being just a mom or just a wife is weak, not admirable. And so that particular point really triggered me with her comment, and it's like, no. Like, there is no shame if a woman at the age of 38 is like, you know what? That life, that identity, what I've done is no longer for me. I'm ready for this. And that is also beautiful. [00:48:53] Speaker D: And. [00:48:53] Speaker F: Okay. [00:48:55] Speaker A: Thank you, guys. I want to get to Marianne first, and then we'll go to you, Jess. [00:48:59] Speaker J: To be honest, I forgot my thought, but I'll touch on this a little bit. I personally wasn't, like, triggered or upset at the clip, but I was excited to chime in on the conversation because it is something that I live every day, and I'm, like, such an advocate. [00:49:19] Speaker A: I've. [00:49:19] Speaker J: I was telling you, I bring Lorenzo to everything that I do. So, yeah, I was just like, well, this isn't true. And, like, also, I think one of my comments was, like, the only place you're irreplaceable is in motherhood. And so that was, like, the first comment. And then I was, like, sleeping on it a little bit more, and I, like, went and did a whole thing on, like, the metamorphosis, kind of, Janet, what you were touching on today, because, like, I had a C section. I was ripped open. All my organs were on the table beside me. My body was going like this on the table, and I'm awake for it. And Mikey definitely saw my intestines in a bowl. Everything. It was terrible. And, you know, they say, oh, six weeks, then. Then you could go back to regular activity. I didn't feel like I could really move my body until maybe seven months after I had Lorenzo. My organs were still shifting, trying to find its place. And that's kind of what I was touching on in my comment in the. In the video. It's just like, no one really knows, like, because also, every birth story, every postpartum story is different. Oh, I remember. What I was gonna say is that sometimes it's hard for moms to, like, really touch on, like, the hard things. They're. They don't want to voice it because they don't want to feel like they're complaining about it. Because we should be grateful for, you know, the miracle of life. You know, we just created something in. In nine. Nine, you know, eight to nine months. And you should be grateful, right? But it's like, okay, everyone's asking about the baby. Everyone's asking about the baby, but what about me? What about me? Like, no one's asking about me. Well, maybe some people. There's. There's. If you know who you are, if you were asking about me. But all I'm saying is that if there's a mom in your life, just check on them, too, and not just the baby. Because it's hard. Everybody. It's very hard. [00:51:23] Speaker B: You know what? To piggyback off of that. I think people, you know, when they found out that I was a parent, they're like, oh, my God. Isn't it beautiful? How do you feel? And literally, all I wanted to say was, like, this is bullshit. This is bullshit. Like, no one talks about how hard this is. No one talks about how my child is waking up every 45 minutes. Like, no one talks about how I would wake up and literally feel like a zombie and, you know, go outside with her and cross the street, not looking to see if the light was red or green. Like, no one talks about that. And I think why that clip was like, I'll use the word triggering was because it was like, whoa, whoa, that's not true. Like, that's not true. That's literally all I wanted to say was, wait, that's not true. This is actually really hard. And it's an art to be able to do both. Because that's why back in the day, you know, there were villages. That's why it. The saying is it takes a village to raise a child. And that's why back then there were gender roles. Because, you know, men went out and hunted and witnessed women stayed home and, you know, maintain the home, which is hard. It is 24 hours. You never stop. And then on top of that, to add a career to it. Nah, that's why when she said that, I was like, whoa, no, no. It is my choice to be a parent. And that is a fact. Right? But I have a community. Like, literally, I have friends, my mom, my sister, my. My sitter, who is literally my husband at this point, that I would not be able to do anything without her. And so that clip was more like, wait, wait, no, no, no, no. Don't spread that rumor. Don't spread that rumor. That's not true. That's not true. Like, don't, don't say that. Because someone who may be thinking about being a mom may think twice or, you know, I don't know. But for me, that was more like, no, no, no, don't spread that rumor. That's not true. [00:53:32] Speaker C: You know, totally. [00:53:34] Speaker A: I want to respond to that and then I'll throw to you, Eva. I do think that there were a lot of opinions down there in the chat, and there were also some cold, hard truths. And that is one of them, Jess, is the notion that you have to either be a mom or a career person is outdated, to say the very least. It isn't true. It isn't useful. That stereotype. That stereotype is ready to be abolished. I don't believe in it. It's harmful. It's not useful, and it's not true. And I don't think it was Caroline's intention to say that it is. I really don't. I think one of the other truths that sprung from those comments is that success looks different for everyone if. If that is your choice. If that is. And. And what somebody. I was recently having a one on one. And I also think it's beautiful that a lot of the people who reached out to me were not ready to have this conversation in a public forum this way, but wanted to, you know, talk one on one. And one of them was saying, I have fantasized about being a stay at home mom. I would love. Who of us hasn't thought about not working? It would be amazing to not have to be working. And I think that it's as empowering as it is to hear all the stories of people who can do both. I think we also are doing some damage, maybe doing some damage by saying women can do it all and should do it all. And I think you are all testament to that, to the great strength required to be able to do more than mother or father or parent. And I think most of you, even outside of your industry, professional jobs, are also educators, which is another full time job. So I think again a lot of opinions in there and I read them all and a lot of truths and that truth that we can be done with, the idea that it is either mother or career person is at the top of my list of like, I, I, yeah, I would die on that hill actually. I really, really believe that, that we can be through with that stereotype. [00:55:51] Speaker D: The word that comes up for me is, is just that I feel like being a mom or being a parent allows you just to be more authentic with who you are. Right? So whether that means okay, I choose to work or no, I want to be a stay at home mom. Like it just has to be be something that feels so personal to you and that allows you to really live in what your purpose is, what your definition of purpose is. And it's like after you go, we go through what you do go through and raising small humans, it's like I kind of just at this point where I'm like, well I don't give a anymore, you know, like I'm like my butthole has been on fire for a week. Like I don't really give a, like, you know, like if I don't want. [00:56:28] Speaker A: To work today, I'm not going to work today. [00:56:29] Speaker D: If I want to work my ass. [00:56:30] Speaker F: Off, I am going to work my ass off. [00:56:31] Speaker D: Ass off. You know, literally my ass off. Like I don't know if I have. [00:56:35] Speaker A: A butthole anymore down there. [00:56:36] Speaker D: So like, it's just this different level of authenticity that just makes you show up unfiltered. And that's honestly one of my favorite things about motherhood is like just who gives a shit? We're all just here to live in the way that we know best and no one else can tell you how to do that but yourself. And motherhood definitely connects you way more with that. [00:56:55] Speaker E: It's that right there, that ending everybody's journey is going to look different, we function different, whatever. But I wanted to say, to kind of just this point, somebody once asked me, they were like, so who, Who? So who takes care of your child? And I said, I'm still taking it back. I was like, I wake up at. [00:57:15] Speaker G: 6 o' clock in the morning. [00:57:15] Speaker E: I take my child to school every day. Every day. If I'm working or I'm not, I. [00:57:20] Speaker H: Take her to school. [00:57:21] Speaker E: You know, I see her when I get home. When I move to Boston to work on a move here called Spirited, my mother came with me, went to rehearsal in the morning. She was the first one to wake me up. I saw her, played with her before I went to rehearsal, got home from rehearsal. Everybody else can chill and do all things. I can go home and play with a toddler. You know what I mean? These are the things you do as a mother, you know what I mean? [00:57:43] Speaker F: So. [00:57:44] Speaker E: And we don't all have to do that. Like you said, you can also be like, I'm not doing this because I don't need to do all this. But I was like, I'd raise my child. Yes, I have help. But like, yeah, it kind of got me. I was like, no, I'll take care of my child. [00:57:56] Speaker I: All of these things that do color how we enter into parenthood, our background, our circumstances, whether we are partnered up or not, whether you have to work or not, by choice, by necessity, they do color the way you parent. And, you know, being an older gay dad, which I think is the only one of that in this, you know, it's perspective. It's, you know, I, you know, it should, it, it shouldn't go without saying, but I'm going to say it anyways. It should go without saying, but I'm going to say it anyways. I understand. Both my husband and I, we entered into parenthood. There's something about parenthood that it's, it's leveling for everyone. Right? How humbling it is. Right. However, I didn't carry a child for nine months and entered into it with. That exhaustion pushed a child out, Right. Not that that's the only way for a woman to have a child as well, but. Right. So I'm already not entering, I'm already entering parenthood with, with. I'm not at a deficit. I don't know if that's the right word, but my body's not exhausted. I'M not going through chemical and hormonal imbalance stuff this. I already, I knew that on day one, it's like, wow, we're lucky because we're, you know, sort of at a full tank entering into. Into parenthood. And we had, you know, she's never been a good eater, but she, My daughter is a. Has her superpower sleep. She was always a good sleeper, so I had that. So when people would say, you know, you look like. I'm like, oh, it's not her fault. It's right. It was never her fault. At three months, she was at 11 hours a night, you know, so, you know, also, I, I got the luxury of, of kicking the can down. I wasn't fighting a biological clock, right? And if I had had a child when I was 35, oh, I'm so sorry for that child. I wasn't ready to have a child at 35. And so I got. We had the luxury of kind of pushing, Pushing parenthood, and there's a good side of that. We had her when I was 46. I wouldn't trade being an older dad for the world. I think I bring so much wisdom. You know, my back hurts a lot, but. But the wisdom I bring is just so beneficial to how I parent to my daughter. I didn't buy into the whole baby industrial complex. I'd seen my sisters and friends go through, and I'm like, I'm not getting that stroller that she's going to be in for three months. Why, you know, all of that stuff, you know, I just, I didn't have to. Have to battle with, but it was because of the type of, you know, a. Who I am. I didn't have to, you know, all of these things. My, My insides weren't sitting out on a, On a bowl. And I just have so much empathy and grace for women and mothers, biological mothers, that, that, that, that conceive and give birth. Because it's like, y' all are. All of you are just amazing to me. And, you know, I just, I'm in awe of all of you. So that's it. [01:01:11] Speaker H: Because we all are educators, I think, and I don't think I expressed this that well earlier. I wasn't really offended about the mother thing. I think as a mentor, what I want us to stop pushing is this narrative that in order for us to be the favorite or to be seen or to work, someone else has to be pushed to the side. I've always loved that everybody that I've worked with or know in this group, they Inspired me. And if they were the favorite in a Fatima's room or Marguerite Derrick's, I'm like, okay, I just wanted to share the spotlight with you. It doesn't mean I have to push you over. I think in this specific clip, mothers were glad damage, and that's why we were like, wait a minute. But I just really want dancers to understand that. And I did catch that. She said, success means something different to everyone, and that's a larger conversation. But I really hope that moving forward, that's something that we all keep pushing because it's already a saturated business, and it's kind of getting out of control. I think we can all agree, but we can share the light. There's room for everyone. [01:02:18] Speaker A: I love that sentiment. And I cosign one. Dang it. I'm gonna botch it now. There's a saying, one matches flame does not take away from the brightness of another. And there is room. And it creates a rich, diverse artist collective. When you have an underdog and you have a favorite, when you have dynamics between students learning and performers performing, I think it's our artist community is richer. When we think of winning and winning versus losing and losing or winning having a winner and having a loser, I hope to create more win, win environments, y'. All. This conversation is case in point. I've been in chills multiple times. This is. I don't think you have to have a, like, ooch, ouch moment in order to have one of these, but I'm glad that I did, because here we are. Yeah, Jess, go ahead. Yeah. [01:03:18] Speaker B: I think the actual. The second part of my. When I saw that clip was like, you know, what I thought of recently to add on to what Brit just said was, you know, when I was at CLI last year, and I was one of the mentors, and you know how CLI has a whole audition. Audition season right towards the end of the year? And, you know, I was talking to the women that I was mentoring, and I was like, what's the one thing that stood out to you? Like, during. Because it's a week of, like, auditions, like, the cruise ships, the agencies, you know, different choreographers that come. And I was like, what's the one thing that kind of stood out to you? And the majority of them said, you know, what was really strange was that a lot of the dancers that were called out weren't the dancers that were called out during classes. And I was like, and for me, that didn't surprise me, because if we. We are all in the industry and we know that class is very different than the industry. The industry has an idea of what they want, which is very different than whoever the teacher is teaching in that specific classroom. Right. It's all about preference. Like, this business is all about preference. I love tea, you love coffee. I mean, there are amazing dancers that will never work with certain choreographers because, like, I'm just not their cup of tea. You know what I mean? So I think to add on to that clip was. What I also want dancers to understand is that when you get into this business, it's not about who was the favorite in the classroom. Right. It's like you're walking into a business filled with different, like, preferences, and they see you a certain way, which is very different than what you see. How you see yourself in this business. I think I would agree with her, is that perseverance is actually really important, you know, and not to let those environments, because I know those environments can be really, like, debilitating. It's like, I wasn't called out. I wasn't called out. I wasn't called out, you know, and when I started, I was never the dancer that was called out in class. Like, I was never the dancer that was called out in class. And so when I stepped into this business. You want to say hi to everybody? Okay. Yeah, you can't come. Everybody wants to meet you really quickly, girl. We're on a time schedule right here. [01:05:55] Speaker A: I would love to meet Joe. [01:05:59] Speaker B: This is my daughter Jojo. [01:06:01] Speaker A: Hey, Jojo. Thank you for saying hello. [01:06:05] Speaker E: That hair. [01:06:06] Speaker A: Oof. [01:06:07] Speaker E: Gorgeous and tall. [01:06:09] Speaker A: You said 13. [01:06:10] Speaker B: 13 going up 14 in a. In like a week or so. But yeah, anyways, to that point, I think it's just. I just wanted to add on to what Britt just said about that clip because it was two parts. There were two parts to that clip. [01:06:25] Speaker A: We could continue unpacking the clip and the social media of it all. And truly, I think that could be its own episode. I've learned so much over the course of the podcast life about trying to make long form content into short form digestible bits. It's really hard. 800. To be honest, you guys, I don't. I. I'm holding both simultaneously. Being both embarrassed and really proud that after 866reels posted, only one has generated this type of conversation simultaneously proud and embarrassed. As a podcast host, somebody could tell me that I've missed the mark by not doing better at stirring conversation, but I. I'm proud of it. I think it's. I think it's. I'm not a. Those of you who know me know that I'm not like a pot stirring person. It's just not my style. But the conversation that has sprung is my style. This is exactly my style. Talking about important matters, talking about things that don't get talked about very often, and sharing, sharing the floor. I wouldn't stop, even though these moments have made me want to. Like, it's, it's, it's not easy. But of course, like, that actually is the bedrock of this conversation. It is about strength. And not what strength looks like, but what strength feels like. So that is like huge, huge takeaway for me for today. Go ahead, Liza. [01:07:58] Speaker F: And also that we don't have to have it all figured out and perfect all the time. I think that's part of it too, right? It's like you're providing this platform to educate, to share, right? And this happened, but now, again, look what's happening. And now all these voices get to be heard. And maybe there's some young woman, young man out there that is like, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, I can do this, right? But like, in the spirit of it, it's just like parenting. You're never going to be perfect. And I think one of the questions initially was like, how do you find balance? I'm like, well, that doesn't exist. I've never. Balance is not real. There is no balance. There's always one thing that's a fire alarm as a parent where you're like, okay, forget everything. I gotta do this. Oh, wait, okay, no, now I need to make this phone call. Okay, wait, wait. My kid is sick, right, Jess? It's like the whole world stops, right? And it's like, it's, it's, for me, it's like, about being flex, just in that flex spirit, that flow spirit, like that flex. And I think that's what's so cool about this, is that people can tune in and listen to it and go, okay, yeah, it doesn't have to be one or the other. I can, I can construct this and I can be flexible and I can do it my way, you know, and. [01:09:15] Speaker A: You'Re doing that not one or the other. And not right or wrong. [01:09:19] Speaker F: It's not right or wrong, which is another choice. [01:09:22] Speaker A: No, we can all relate to being industry people and wanting to do it right. Like, if you, if you've been on a job with me, you know, I want to do it right. And you also know that I'm going to mess up. [01:09:33] Speaker E: And it's. [01:09:34] Speaker A: That is exactly what happened with this post. And that's what, like, going into this conversation, I was just afraid of doing it wrong. But there is no wrong. [01:09:45] Speaker B: It's just. [01:09:46] Speaker A: Well, not doing it would be wrong is the only view in my mind. It's all learning. I know the desire to do it right probably leads most of the time, at least it does for me. But the desire to learn, when I remember that way, Way supersedes that, is way more important to me to be learning than to be right. Go ahead, Brittany. [01:10:08] Speaker H: First off, I just saw this clip yesterday, just to put in perspective, and I know it's like a week old, but what I love about this is we were able to hop on the phone almost immediately, and we had the best uncomfortable conversation. And you invited me on the podcast day. I think what I just. The word that keeps coming to me is grace. And I love that you've taken accountability and that you're trying to write whatever this is, you know, because again, I lovette just said we don't know what we're doing. We're just trying to figure it out as the day goes. And I'm so grateful for this platform, and it's a testament to you and how much we love and respect you, because look at who's on this panel. You know, we got some icons on here. So I. I just want to say thank you. And again, and I love that everyone keeps saying, you do not have to pick. I feel like with this business, people always look for someone else to be the blueprint. My journey is a lot different. My kid's almost grown now, so it looks different than male or clothed. You know what I mean? But we have got to start having more of these conversations, because what I find is a lot of people don't know that the working dancers, the favors, are parents even now, and that we're grown, grown most of the time. We don't really kick it off and really start working, working until we're well into our 30s. So, yeah, I just love that we're having this. And I'm proud of you. Some tea? [01:11:37] Speaker A: Thank you, my friend. And I'm proud and wildly inspired by each of you. I think it's. The conversation has always been the more interesting thing to me, and the people are the more interesting thing to me. Even more interesting than the dancing itself. I don't think I would be in this business if it wasn't for the people. So thank you all for being the type of people who will engage in a deeper conversation instead of close off. And again, this is a win, win version of what can happen when you're willing to have an uncomfortable conversation and treat it as learning? I have learned. Whoa. So much from you guys, and I hope that all our listener viewers have, too. I know that we are fighting the clock, so I'll ask for any final remarks that you guys might have. [01:12:26] Speaker B: I think for me, I just want to leave, for all the viewers out there, is that I had really great examples of moms, parents, single parents. Brit literally was. I was like. And you remember I called you. I was like, if she can do it, I can do it. If she can do it, I can do it. But I think right now, the beauty of the time we're living in right now is that there are more and more parents in this business that are very vocal and open. So there are so many examples for dancers that are, you know, entering, that actually have examples in front of them of working parents. I've also, for all of those that are thinking about being parents in this business, I've been really blessed to have work with, you know, choreographers and. Or whether I'm a dancer or an associate, with people that are compassionate and that are open and that have welcomed me and Jojo in this space when I don't have a sitter or let me go, let me leave rehearsal when the school does call and she's sick. Like, I've been in. Really, I've been blessed to be in working environments that have been very healthy for her and I, as a working single parent in this, you know, business. And so for all of you that are watching, I just. It's not impossible. It's hard, but it's not impossible. [01:13:59] Speaker A: I don't know. [01:13:59] Speaker D: I mean, gosh, this conversation has inspired so many things, but the word that comes up to leave with and to lead with is just love, Love. You know, like, gosh, becoming a mom and being a parent just has inspired a new level of love that I never could have imagined. And there's also, I want to remind everybody, there's so many ways to be a parent, too. You know, Like, I know many women in my life that are struggling to have kids, too. And you don't have to birth something from your vagina to be a mother. You know, like, I became a mom when I adopted my cat, Stan. So it's an energy, and it's actually just about accepting, experiencing a higher frequency of love, because that's really what it's all about. So just seek that. Seek love and everything. And if you lead with that, becoming a parent, not becoming a parent, it's all the same. [01:14:42] Speaker J: Lorenzo's dad, he's also dancer, choreographer and has put his career on hold many, many, many times so that I could do my thing and I don't want that to go unnoticed. Lorenzo's older now, so it's like, like we are able to kind of like do things at the same time now. Like he has supported me in bringing Lorenzo to Baltimore with me for the rest of the year and has sacrificed that time with his son for me to like live out my dream while he goes on tour with T Pain as the choreographer. So it's like now that he gets older, we're able to do our own thing at the same time. But, but it definitely was a slow start and we were high fiving each other through the door on the way in and out, tag teaming with our son. But yeah, I just wanted to give a quick shout out to all the partners who are also doing the thing too. [01:15:39] Speaker E: I just know that before I had a child and mine was a planned pregnancy is that I knew that it was possible because of all the women in ministry who I had seen before. So that was a great example to me. So, Brit, especially you being one of. [01:15:54] Speaker I: Them, I just want to say for listeners, whether it's. This is a, whether you want to be a parent and it's planned or unplanned and surprise or whether it's a calculated or whether it's a three year slog for adoption, it doesn't parenthood. I think whatever you, whatever happens and whatever circumstances you get catapulted in, you'll figure it out. Out, you'll figure it out. And dancers are some of the smartest people ever and resourceful. And so you really figure it out. And you know, just I, you know, Lisette, hit this. It's, it's, it's about the flow because it never, nothing ever happens in parenthood how you want it to or think it's going to or even getting to parenthood. Right. Fertility issues. My process was two years longer than I thought it was going to be. I ever expected it was going to be, you know, so all of it is just staying in and keeping your nervous system regulated. And when you're in it and preparing for it and you're in parenthood, it's just about staying in that state of flow and being able to go with it. And I've had to turn down a job before. I really wanted it, but we couldn't figure out sitters and stuff like that. You know, usually we can and we couldn't and so it's just about. That's okay. And understanding the big picture of things. Lastly, I just wanted to say there's lots of kids that need to be. Are in the foster system, you know, so that's an avenue too. I just want people to sort of think about, you know, there's lots of kids that needs home, that need homes. And so, you know, it's not the only way to carry a child, to have it, to become a family. There's lots of ways. If you say you're a family, then you are a family. [01:17:44] Speaker H: That's it. [01:17:46] Speaker C: I just wanted to say this to anybody who may be able to relate out there and maybe hear beforehand, but leading up to having a child, I postponed it a lot because I was very nervous and I was very self conscious, had a lot of anxiety that I wasn't enough. And I remember most of you know, Stephanie Kammer, we were on a job and we were having dinner and I. And she's like, are you thinking about it? I'm like, I am, but I don't feel like I've done enough in my life. I don't feel like I've accomplished enough. I don't feel like I've done enough cool, productive things that my child, this is so crazy to say, but that my child will be proud of me for like, how crazy is that, right? Like, our kid really thinks about that, you know, as they're growing up. They love you for you. One comment that was in the, in the thing in the post that stood out to me was a woman, I think it was a woman who had recently lost her mother. And it hit me so hard. She said all that, I'm gonna botch this up too. But she said all that mattered was that she was my mom and she was there for me and that's all I cared about. And I think about that on the daily as you go into parenthood. After having my child, I said, oh my gosh, like, I can still do things. I can still aspire to things. Life looks different, plans look different. I can't just drop everything and go international or go on a trip or leave for two weeks or do this job that's 15 hours a day. And that's okay. We have the choice. Sometimes we don't have a choice. But I think at the end of the day, the not having a choice is because we're choosing our child and the new identity we have and the new life we have that we've created for ourselves. If we have chosen to be a Parent. Not everybody chose to be a parent out there. But what's really cool, what I've learned is that I feel more abundant now, but in a different way. You know, it's not because I'm doing. I'm shoving all this shit in my. I don't know if I can say bad words, sorry on my plate, you know, I've learned now that's not the vibe for me. I don't want a lot of things to do because I want my head to be present with my child as much as possible. Maybe because I'm older and I. I'm not saying I did so many things, but like I did things, you know, that I'm so thankful for in my 20s and 30s. And now I'm so thankful to just do simpler things and be able to really say no. I love saying no. It's the shit and focus on the stuff that aligns and vibes and that feeling of if you feel like this audience out there, if you feel like I haven't done enough, I haven't. Life is not over. [01:20:24] Speaker A: It still keeps going. [01:20:25] Speaker C: You have so much life to live. And I'm so grateful of that shift. And I think that only happens when you are then in the shoes of a parent. [01:20:34] Speaker A: Thank you for sharing that. I remember you and I had that conversation when we had our one on one. And I remember feeling that way about my mom. I didn't understand her. My mom was a flight attendant and she would drop me off at school, go to the airport, get on a plane, go to a different place, get on a plane, come back. And when she was home, when I got home from school, I didn't know where she'd been all day. I wish I could say that I cared. I just knew that she was my mom and what. And what she was doing as my mom was the part that mattered the most. And she's was my best friend then. She's still my best friend now. [01:21:10] Speaker G: So I know that in this conversation, if you're out there, you've heard a lot of us say, like, it's hard. It's hard. Even me saying postpartum depression, suicidal, and that can put a lot of fear into a woman. And I know a lot of my friends are like, oh, I'm scared that I might have postpartum depression or it's so hard. The hard and all of that, that the postpartum depression was my biggest gift. It turned me into a version of myself that I would have never had. [01:21:37] Speaker J: The. [01:21:38] Speaker G: The beauty of becoming and like, I can Only imagine, like, someone like Brittany who had a child at 20 and the woman that that helped her become or, like, who she had to become. And the life is hard. Might as well, like, do it with a kid who, like, greets you with a kiss and a hug and a little note that's like, I love you, Mom. And you're like, oh, my gosh. Like, there's so much beauty in the hard. Don't be afraid of it. Like, lean into it. And also for, I think for a lot of people, dances, like, your identity, like, I'm a dancer and letting go of that. And I just had to say, like, you are not just a dancer. You know, you can at any time just change your mind and become whatever the fuck you want to become. And don't let the pressure of everyone around you and what their life looks like make you think you can't do your own thing. Thank you for. Dana, I love you for having this conversation. Thank you so much. [01:22:33] Speaker F: I think just to speak into the listening of people out there that are interested in becoming parents, kind of like what Scott said, I think look inside and try to tune in to what the guidance is for you, because it's so easy to hear all the noise and be fed things constantly and kind of go, well, I need to do what she's doing. I need to. To do that thing. I need to wear this thing. No matter if you're having a kid or not, just think about what speaks to you and know that as you evolve, it's going to change. It's going to change and keep growing and change. But I think just really like tapping into that listening, because for me, I held off on having kids just because I was, like, questioning, because a lot of things were happening in my career at that time that I didn't want to lose. And then when I went to go have kids and have kids and I had to do ivf and that cost a lot of money, and that was a struggle. And I don't have many regrets, but I do have the regret of not just going into it when I had the calling and the trusting and I had kids at 40 and 41. But that's what I would like to share is like, follow your calling. Whether it's having kids, whether it's not, whether it's being an auntie or a friend, a babysitter, but just tune into what you want to do. And if it's dance and you want to go hard on dance, go there, you know? But there's a timing for everything. And Just allowing that timing kind of to flow. You can do whatever you want, really, but just listening in instead of absorbing everything I think is really important sometimes. [01:24:15] Speaker H: I love that you pretty much said what I was going to say. Lisette. I tell my son this all the time. Own pace, own race only. And it's so imperative that we always remember that with all of us. We're educators, we mentor a lot of dancers, and we're specifically talking about parenthood. But I know that I've been talking to a lot of dancers who are doing this to take care of their parents. It's always a challenge in what we do, and we've picked a career that is. Is not easy in general, regardless of if you want to be a parent or not. So I just. I want everybody to walk away from this knowing that your hardships will always forge your strength. My biggest testimony as a dancer, the pride that I feel when I think about jobs, is always tied to the hardest moments, the most challenging moments. And it really is a beautiful thing. I tell my son all the time, we're going to. You're going to be fearful. Feel the fear, go after it anyway. Ask all the questions, Give all the grace, give all the compassion. Be someone who's willing to learn, to hear people out. And I love that's what we've done today, because it's not easy. And I specifically want to talk to you, Marianne, because I'm an empath and I feel you. You're newly in this journey, and you're doing a fantastic job. Kudos to you for figuring it out. There's never a balance to any of this. Your goals as a family will always change, because when you're in a house full of creatives, it will always get crazy. You'll find this, and you're like, okay, it'll go here, so just keep going. You know, my kid's almost an adult at this point, so I just wanted to share that with you specifically. But, yeah, to any dancer that's thinking about doing this, you got it. Point blank, period. It's your purpose, or it wouldn't be in your heart. [01:26:06] Speaker A: Right. [01:26:07] Speaker J: I received that. Thank you so much. And I would love to connect after this. I wanted to touch a little bit about, like, the timeline of when I decided to have a kid. It took me actually two years to get pregnant, and I had my son at 25, so I was a bit of like a younger mom, I guess you would say, in this day and age, not back in the day. Like, my mom had her first kid when she was 19. But. But yeah, I. It took me a really long time to get pregnant and after having a kid I'm not going to have anymore. That's my choice. But I like going along with like the IVF and adoption and surrogacy and all of that stuff. I have decided to donate my eggs and I have donated my eggs like four times now. So if you are able to have kids or if you're. You don't want kids but you have have the goods to help another family, that is also an a route that you can take. You have to go through a lot of screening and all of that. It was a little bit easier for me because I had a kid. But yeah, I now I'm helping families have kiddos because I'm done. One and done. [01:27:24] Speaker A: Thank you for sharing that. That's a hugely important reminder. Thank you. Thank you friends. Thank you so much for being here. I can't find words for my gratitude and I'm a words person so that really says a lot. Whether you are a person who commented in the chat or a listener viewer who has no idea what we were talking about today, a parent or a not parent, I hope that this conversation has been as moving for you as it has for me. I'm so grateful for you guys for weighing in and I hope that this doesn't read as conversation closed. Please let this just be the beginning. I would love to keep the dialogue going. You all know where to find me by now. I'll be sure to include the handles websites, various ways to get in touch with all of my guests from today. But until next time, I suppose get out into the world and keep it very funky. I'll talk to you guys later. This podcast was produced by me with the help of many Big big love to our executive assistant and editor, Riley Higgins. Our Communications manager is Fiona Small with additional support from Ori Vajrares. Our music is by Max Winnie, logo and brand designed by Bree Reitz and if you're digging the podcast, leave a review and rating and please share. Also, if you want to connect with me and the many marvelous members of the Words that Move Me community, visit words that move me.com if you're simply curious to know more about me and the work that I do outside of this podcast, visit thedanawilson.com.