Episode Transcript
[00:00:10] Speaker A: Yeah, you can.
Ta da. Shalomi.
Oh, my God. Hi, friends. It's Dana and wriss roll. And this is words that move me. I'm so glad you're here. Today's a special episode because we are doing a q and a. It's been a long time since I allowed you, the listener, to ask me anything. And out in my daily life, I get a lot of really, really great. I get great questions about dance. So I've added a few of those into this mix as well. I'll be honest, guys, it gets hard being the one to ask all the questions all the time. So I'm very excited to switch the flip. Flip the switch. What is it? No one. No one. No one actually knows which one it is.
Flip the switch and let you guys ask me that. Anything's today. But first, we're gonna do some wins. I have a win. Segues into a story. Are you ready for this?
In 2022, I think it was the first year back to my regularly scheduled summers, which are usually very dense with teaching after the pandemic. So 2022, I had a big nationals event. Oh, big, big unprofessionale moment. Sorry.
Big nationals event. And in 2019, right before the pandemic, I had done two feature films. Big stuff. Hadn't celebrated myself, hadn't treated myself to a thing. Not a vacation, not a, like, new, expensive luxury item, which apparently is something that I had done in the past. I don't know. Anyways, I felt that I needed to celebrate. So in the summer of 2022, I bought myself not one, but two pairs of Louboutins.
Wow. You've probably seen a handful of them on this podcast. I think I've worn them both. At least one. I've worn the Cinderella ones before. Maybe the gold ones. I haven't yet. Anyways, it came down to two. I took photos of them. I sent them to my friends. I was like, which one? Gold or glass looking diamond type? And everybody said, both. And because I can't make my own decisions, I just went with the flock and I bought them both.
What I'm celebrating today is that this summer, as a celebration, as a reward to myself for completing a really dense summer, I bought myself a pair of hocas.
And that, my friends, is how, you know, I'm growing up. I'm 38, and I care about the comfort of my feet and the alignment of my spine and the secret hidden gem of a win in this. I guess this is my win.
Did I set this up as if it was going to be my win. I think it is. Anyways, it will be. Now, the secret win here is that as soon as those Hokas arrive at the door, which very well may be during this episode. Cause I got an email that says they're in transit.
I will be throwing my croc slides away. These are hitting the garbage because I have eaten shit so many times in these shoes. So many times all the way down, like ribs on the pavement. One of them I even slid cause it was like a linoleum parquet situation.
I would. And I move fast, if you don't know, I do live in LA, but I walk like a New Yorker. I am at a clip. I am moving. We have things to do, people to see. I'm moving fast. And if you catch these croc flops at a certain angle, you will go down. I have slid and then more recently in Greece. So hard to be in Greece and you're croc flops. I really ate it and I really severely sprained my toe to the point where I went to urgent care and the lady at the side of my toe said, oh, let's get you some x rays. Like, it was that bad. So anyways, croc flops out. Hoka's in. Be on the lookout. They are a slide. Also, I'm sticking in the slide genre. I don't know if I'm ready for a hoka sneaker yet. Nobody asked. We're not in the q and a portion yet. Nobody asked. I thought that was the first question.
I don't know if I'm ready for a hocus sneaker. I just. Most of them are just so ugly that I am not quite there yet. But anyways, the slides are coming. I'm so excited. That is what is going well in my world. I'm growing up and my feet are going to be happy about it. What's up with you?
What's going well in your world? Hit me.
Yay.
I'm so glad that you're winning. Congratulations. Keep it up. I am cheering you on from the sidelines. Okay, let's get into this, shall we? Wrist roll is sound asleep. You're gonna be getting a good snore score today. Although she has this little lump on her leg after we got some shots recently. So I'm gonna be massaging that so that that little lump goes down while you all ask me some questions via Riley Higgins. Let's go.
[00:05:35] Speaker B: Ready?
[00:05:35] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:05:36] Speaker B: Okay, first one. What makes the mark of a great music video?
[00:05:42] Speaker A: Whoa. What makes the mark of a great music video? Okay, two for me. Number one. It's a one er. And it's masterfully. Well, I guess you're asking, what's the mark of a master? There can be bad oneners, it's true. But a oner is usually so hard to pull off that it implies there has been some sort of planning. I think a lot of the mark of a not masterful music video is no planning. 85 different setups. We throw the artist in a red outfit, a denim outfit, an orange outfit, and in that corner in this color now with black light. And have them sing the song top to bottom and then throw the dance on the chorus. That's like, not so well planned. If you're doing a Warner, it's likely been rehearsed and discussed and it usually winds up good. Like all of those fantastic jungle videos that we love so much. Another mark of a. What was the question? Mark of a masterful of a great video.
Yeah. When the artist.
Hmm. I guess this could backfire. But I love it when artists.
This definitely backfires. Can act and will put themselves in a scene with a love interest person. Those always get me. I mean, I love that. I love that I'm trying to think of my favorites and then to explain them.
Yeah, having a scene. I think having a scene makes it great in my book. Even if the scene is bad. Cause we're all embracing that this isn't a movie, it's a music video. So it's okay if the scenes are kind of bad. I love them. Like, the opening scene of thriller is so good. It's so. It's not even bad, but it's like, it's cheeky. We know that it's not a film. Although he did consider all of those short films. So maybe that's a bad example. I'm rambling now, but I think those are my two. Anything that suggests there has been a great deal of planning and then scenes. Oh, and great costumes.
I'm thinking specifically, one of my favorite music videos is a tame and Paula music video. I forget the name of the song now, but I'll include it. There's a gorilla scene, a gorilla costume, dancing. There's cheerleaders. There's the. Looks are incredible. Oh, another favorite cheerleader music video. I forget who sings it, but I will also link to it as well.
Maybe cheerleaders make for good music videos, now that I say it, because, hey, Mickey has got to be up there on best music videos of all time. And that has cheerleaders, too. So I retract my first answer and I will tell you the mark of a great music video is cheerleaders.
Next.
[00:08:37] Speaker B: Okay, kind of a two parter. What is something you wish the people you try to cast did more of or had more of? Is there something that stops you from casting someone purely on an optical.
[00:08:48] Speaker A: Okay, wow. What do I wish people did more when I'm trying to cast them? Hell, pin your best dancing. Pin your best dancing videos to the top of your feed. Because even when I go to the agencies instead of to my own personal rolodex on Instagram and they send me all of your materials, unless there's a reel, which I will watch, I will go to your Instagram feed. That's where I usually land. And this is probably, like, the millionth time you've heard this before. But try to keep your best dancing at the top of your feed or freshen. Cause they don't like to look too deep to find it. So I wish people did that more.
Keep their good dancing upfront. And what will deter me from hiring someone off of optics alone? That's hard to say. I don't think I've ever just, like, the look hasn't. I mean, it may be not right for the gig, but I definitely ask around. Hey, have you ever worked with so and so? Hey, have you ever hired this person? Hey, what do you think of this person? Have you ever gigged with them? And if the personality is not fun, easygoing, professional, I'll probably. Next.
Next.
[00:10:09] Speaker B: Okay, so previously, you have talked about you being bored in high school.
So I am curious, or we are curious. Where did your appetite for learning come from?
[00:10:22] Speaker A: When was I bored in high school. Like, in high school? Like, in class. Okay, cool. Okay, okay, okay. Okay. So, yes, not wanting to go to school has been a lifelong theme for me. I never, ever wanted to go. Once I was there, it wasn't quite so bad. And there were courses that I really, really loved. I love learning. I think that's why I created this podcast, so that I could keep learning and assume that others like learning as much as I do and just share it with you guys.
I'm boring her. Speaking of bored, she's like, wah, wah.
I do remember feeling like information was force fed to me in high school. Like, I didn't sign up for this. Where the red fern grows. Really? I don't think so. That seems sad. I don't want to do that. I didn't like that somebody else had curated my to learn list. That felt annoying. But certainly there were things there that I did need to learn, like basic multiplication in us history, for example. What? I think I kind of miss those days, though, because now I have to know what I want to learn in order to go out and find it and learn it. I just showed up and sat in a chair and somebody brought to me what you're going to learn that day. And I don't know what I don't know. So I don't know how to look up the thing that I don't know. That's the thing I need to know. So I kind of envy my past self and wish that, you know, Jolynn Tierry, my boss, founder of New York City Dance alliance and founder of the New York City Dance Alliance foundation, just gave away $25 million in college scholarships in one day, y'all. This summer, in July, over the course of two nationals events in Phoenix and New York. 25 million. If I had been 18 and on the receiving end of a full ride scholarship or even partial to a school like Loyola Marymount or Pace or Juilliard, I mean, I'd have probably gone. I love learning and I do love just showing up and sitting my ass in a seat and having somebody dump information on me. I think it's rad. But at the time, it didn't feel like any of that was relevant or important. Certainly not the things that I wanted to be learning. So, yeah, I think I disengaged a bit in school or I could have been more activated. I think it's really. Having a great teacher makes such a big difference. When I think back about the subjects that I loved, I loved them because of my teachers. And maybe that's why I care so much about education and teaching things in a way that is sticky. Sticky enough for people to want to go and learn more about that thing that as a dance teacher, I usually have, like, what, an hour to gift to you, I guess. Yeah. That's my runaway train of an answer to that question.
I hope that satisfies.
[00:13:33] Speaker B: Three dance moves that define your career.
[00:13:37] Speaker A: Okay. What are three dance moves that define my career?
Define my career, man. All right, question asker.
Yeah, this is some hot ones. Shit, this is good. This. I like individual moves. That's tough, but there's gotta be a wrist roll in there somewhere. I am very wristy with my wrist roll. They're not usually tight wrist rolls, but like, a wristy flourish that's based on a wrist roll. I'm very wristy hands.
Hand gestures, yes. So wrist roll gestures, for sure.
Some sort of like a slidey footstep. Like, there's this one that I put in a combo recently. I don't know the name of this step, actually. If you're listening on the audio only, please watch this on YouTube because I'm going to include a video clip of me doing this step that I don't know the name for and I really wish somebody would send it to me. It's a step that I do all the time. You toe ball, heel on 1ft, and then you turn out the other foot while that's happening. So toe ball, heel and twist. Toe ball, heel and twist. Toe ball, heel and twist. I don't know the name of this step. I do it all the time.
Upstairs I stylize it a thousand different ways, but downstairs I am locked in. Toeball heel twist. Toe ball, heel twist. It's my jam. I could probably say that that's iconic. Oh, got it. Here's the last one. Air instruments. Air instruments of any time of any kind. Air guitar, air drums, air saxophone, air trumpet, air flute, air slide, trombone, air. Uh, name it. I love it. If you see a funky dance with an air instrument in it, there's a strong likelihood that that was me next.
[00:15:29] Speaker B: But tips for asking for help. Like, there's a lot of questions, like, how do I ask someone to submit me to an agency? Or, without sounding weird, how do I ask someone to join my project? Like, there's a lot of. How do I ask people a lot of blockage?
[00:15:44] Speaker A: Okay, okay, okay. So what I think this question is is how do I not feel uncomfortable asking for help?
That's on you, my friend. You can decide to feel empowered asking for help. You can decide to feel activated asking for help. You can decide to feel humble when asking for help. You get to decide the emotional point of view that you are coming from with that ask.
That's my coach, Dana, answer to that part of that question. I do have an episode all about asking good questions, and I think that that could factor in here. In my view, a good question is not only one that hasn't been asked, but let's ditch that for now. A good question reveals how much you know instead of how much you don't know. So, for example, you could come to somebody saying, hey, Riley, I've never lived in LA. I don't know anything about the valley. I'm not sure where to take dance class. But I was hoping that you could help me out, maybe like, help me feel comfortable out here. Woof. Yikes. Versus. Hey, I know my hometown, Aurora. Really good. I've got a favorite coffee shop. My dance studio owner is Michelle Latimer, she's churned out a bunch of, you know, top working dancers, and I'm the next in that line. I'm sure of it. Are you interested in meeting with me to talk about some anchor places here in LA that I might have find support from?
Just like, tell me how much you know instead of how much you don't know. Because it is not attractive to associate with somebody who's treading for water, somebody who's drowning or feeling like they have nothing to offer. I think it is a common misconception that somebody new doesn't have anything to offer. You may be someone who's new, but you have a lot of value to offer. So when asking for help, that's my advice. Don't forget how much you might be able to help that person, even if that person is someone you view as being, you know, career wise or otherwise, above you in some way.
Yeah. There we go.
Next.
[00:18:00] Speaker B: Okay, this is a two parter, but we'll start with the first one, a reference you wish you got more of when you're choreographing.
[00:18:08] Speaker A: Whoa. Anything? That's my own work.
I got my own work as a reference once, and I was like, nice, I can do that. I get Yuri Killian all the time. Ohad Naharin all the time. I'm like, listen, the works that you are giving me and the artists that they came from are.
I mean, they're the magnum opus works of these. Absolutely. One of a kind, never will happen again artists.
And that. Yeah, that can be daunting. So what I would like to get references for is more of my own existing work. Okay, let me try to answer that. Sincerely, soul train.
Anything that involves party dancing, like social dancing, real social dancing. I would love to see more of that. Less TikTok in general. Less TikTok, more golden age Hollywood.
Less TikTok. More. I'm truly.
It would be hard for me to think of a treatment that I've received in the last two years that doesn't say something about a viral dance or reference. A TikTok video treatments and commercial castings. Actually, more the commercial castings. When I get a commercial casting breakdown, like, to audition for the commercial as talent, nine times out of ten, I am asked to learn a TikTok dance.
Okay. Yeah. More golden age Hollywood, less TikTok, more social dance and party dance.
Less TikTok.
Yeah.
[00:19:51] Speaker B: Well, the second part was a reference you wish you would stop getting.
[00:19:54] Speaker A: So I guess that's TikTok. Yeah, TikTok. And I'm pretty sure it's ohad or shit. Yuri. I can't remember the one where they're sitting in a half circle in chairs in. Is it Ohad? Okay. And they're. And they're in suits, and gradually they're taking their suits off and all the time. I mean, like, six times, probably, which. Great. I'm so glad that people know who Ohad is. But something new. I mean, when you're telling me to do that in one day of rehearsal and we're gonna shoot it in one day, that gets a hard no. I've just started saying, I can't do that.
[00:20:34] Speaker B: Do you ever do a locking battle or a locking project?
[00:20:38] Speaker A: Oh, I have never done a locking battle, and I have never done any battle. I have never battled.
Should I say that one more time? Hey, listener. It's me, Dana. And I have never battled. What the heck? I'm low key. Embarrassed by that. And I've got a goal for this year, which isn't going so well, because I already missed a day. It's only been three days, by the way. I want to dance daily. I've changed it slightly to move my body daily. And so the day I didn't dance, I did some yoga. I did it.
I want to be dancing daily. And so I think my first battle is closer on the horizon than it ever has been before.
An exclusively locking project?
No, I haven't. It's hard for me to do an exclusively anything anything because my interests are so wide ranging. Yeah. No, I haven't. And that is such a great question. Thank you for asking. Feeling like maybe I should.
[00:21:40] Speaker B: The best advice you can give someone just beginning their career in the dance industry.
[00:21:45] Speaker A: Nice. My best advice for someone just beginning their career in the dance industry. Are you ready for this? Flex is to listen to all 212 plus words that move me episodes. Except for maybe the bonus episodes that were, like, on my mom and dad's birthday. Those ones probably less to do with dance, but all the rest, that would be my best advice. My second best advice would be quickly, quickly, right away, start celebrating your losses just as much as you celebrate your wins. They are so, so important.
[00:22:25] Speaker B: As a dancer, do you have a different head space for skeleton crew versus on the job versus performing?
[00:22:33] Speaker A: As a dancer, do I have a different headspace for navigating skeleton versus on the job rehearsal versus performing?
My headspace for performing is unlike any other space. So, yes. Hard yes to that. It's hard to explain. It is hard to explain.
It's a different plane. It's really hard to explain, somebody asked me recently, when do you feel the most yourself?
And that is one of those times when I'm performing. I feel so uniquely and exclusively myself and certain that no one else is me. Like, I'm aware of my singularity in that moment.
And I think that's interesting to watch. I think, I hope. But I feel very like myself when I'm performing. And I think that's because of the headspace. It's very quiet, but the body's loud.
I hope that makes sense. It's a fun dichotomy. It's a very fun place to exist. Skeleton crew in rehearsal.
Maybe I'm a little bit more offering of ideas in skeleton. I might be more chatty. I might be more vocal.
Certainly, depending on who I'm working for, that scales up and down during the real rehearsal process. I have riz hair on my nose. I can feel it. Certain people run a really tight ship and don't want any chatting in the rehearsal space. So I gear down. Some people really enjoy feedback, don't mind a social sidestep. So it's more.
I would say I operate in different headspaces more per person for rehearsal, like per rehearsal director than I do for a skeleton versus actual rehearsal. And now that I say that out loud, do I run the room different for skeleton crew versus rehearsal?
Oh, man. I might not be the best person to ask that.
Usually by the rehearsal time, I know what I'm doing and I'm quick to direct us there. In skeleton crew, I'm much more explorational and much more conversational.
Asking for conversation versus seminar. Yeah. So I think I do lead those spaces differently. I hope that answers that question. That's such an interesting thing to think about.
Next.
[00:25:08] Speaker B: How do you know when to say no to a job?
[00:25:12] Speaker A: How do I know when to say no to a job?
If I cannot visualize it, if I cannot imagine it, then the answer is no. If I close my eyes and really try to see it and I can't, then the answer is no.
It's been a while because my imagination is pretty solid. Yeah, that's a good one. Really good one.
[00:25:38] Speaker B: Okay, I'm still finding out how to warden this question.
How do you edit your choreography? Like, after your first draft happens, what do you look to enhance? Is there, like, usually you have to.
[00:25:52] Speaker A: Adjust hand or, like, how do you edit choreography? How do I edit in my choreography, I have come to be a person who calls pretty heavily on video in my choreography process. Almost never do I make something up without filming it. A I film it so that I can remember it, because it might be a while between, you know, then and when I teach it. If the work communicates what I want it to, then there will be very few changes. But if it doesn't communicate the thing that I want it to communicate, I'll try to imagine a way that it could and get back in there and do that. Sometimes it's purely aesthetic. Oh, I haven't lifted my arms in a while. Everything seems really low. Or I. Oh, that. I didn't hear that musical thing before. I should change whatever is happening there now. It doesn't stand out enough. So, usually part one of the edit comes from watching part two edit. Or, like, the refining details will come by putting that back on my body and seeing if anything feels crunchy or not so great.
That's a really good question. I think everybody's process is different, and it's not always that I get an editing process. Like, I don't always have time for that. So I relish when I do get to have enough time to do it on day one. Film it, think about it, watch it, give it a day two, and then get it into my body. Ooh, that's so nice. I love that much time. It doesn't always happen next.
[00:27:21] Speaker B: Okay. I didn't have this one written down, but based off of that answer, what is your thought process when you don't have time to edit? Like, on the Jason Raz video. I know you came in with some stuff to workshop, but, like, what do you tell yourself what you have to deliver on the day?
[00:27:40] Speaker A: Ooh, that's a great question.
So, yes, this Jason Raz example is a perfect example. I choreographed, or I was asked to movement coach a music video for Jason Mraz, and I got the song the day before and loved it. Really loved it. Like, moves just started to fall out of me for it, and that doesn't happen for me very often. So I took heed, I leaned into that, and I came prepared, like, in my back pocket with a verse and a couple chorus options for him, because on the day he happened to have an appetite for movement, I wound up giving him everything I got. And then we wound up, like, kind of wanting some dance stuff on the other verses, too. So I didn't have a top to bottom song choreographed the day that I walked on set, but by the time we were shooting, it was a top to bottom dance. What was I telling myself in that moment?
I was talking less and listening more. He would make an offering, and I would say, yes, that looks great. It's in. And then I would connect those dots and just know, yep, that's the only way we can do that. Or there's no time to do that. Definitely less about what I said to myself and more about listening to the room that told me, more this, less that, and then there's. Honestly, at that point, there's just not enough time to question it. So you say more yes and just go. I hope that that answers that question.
It's a good one. It's a really good one. When I have to work fast, it's more about listening than talking and saying yes. And then also keeping a keen eye as you're capturing, because it's not over till camera's wrapped and in the truck. Like, you can always be taking tiny tweaks, but in an environment where there are a lot of notes being given, different departments, different things, you do have to prioritize the notes. You can't always get 100% of what you want. You have to choose. Those are great questions.
[00:29:50] Speaker B: I have two more.
[00:29:51] Speaker A: Okay. Two more was not on my list.
[00:29:53] Speaker B: But has popped into my head.
[00:29:54] Speaker A: Love it.
[00:29:55] Speaker B: As vice president of the Choreographers Guild, what's one thing you hope to see the guild accomplish this year?
[00:30:04] Speaker A: A contract. I want the guild to have a collective bargaining agreement. That's the first one to be officially unionized. We need this official piece of agreement. I would love for that. For us. I know. Also, we're making big, big strides on copyright, licensing, and ownership of our creative intellectual property for choreographers. That's huge. I think that's a very close second. Those are things that I'm very excited about. It feels like a momentous year for us. I'm hugely optimistic about what we can accomplish altogether, because the last few years alone have brought some really big wins.
[00:30:49] Speaker B: Last question.
You can go back to any project you've been a part of.
[00:30:55] Speaker A: Oh, shit.
[00:30:56] Speaker B: And add briz into it.
Which project is that?
[00:31:01] Speaker A: The seaweed sisters.
[00:31:03] Speaker B: Which one?
[00:31:04] Speaker A: Probably the desert. I don't know why?
With the water balloon chase, if it could be. Yeah.
The good, the bad, the ugly. And it's, like, close up on us, and we're running. And then one of them was just, like, a pug. Like, drooling from the face, slow motion running. I think that would have really, really enhanced the value of that work.
But I would add her to all projects. Just little Riz. Easter eggs. Yes. Imagine Riz in a certain time, a little surgical assistant.
She's so snoozy, you guys, right now. I shouldn't wake her up, but I want to wake her up just to hold her so you can see how tiny she is. She's so tiny. Okay, those were some fantastic questions. I would like to redirect this question at you all. When do you feel the most yourself?
Not when do you feel the best? When do you feel the most yourself?
And how can you make room for more of that in your life and work?
That is a big question.
Number two question is, what do you want to do next, and how can you start doing that today?
If I had to answer that question right now, oh, my gosh, you guys. I had a nightmare last night that I had to audition for a show that I really, really wanted to be in, and I had to sing. And I'm like, what do you mean? There's no singing in this show. I wouldn't want to be in it if I knew that I had to sing and I had to sing at my audition.
If you know that you have a weakness, like, kind of might as well just, like, start kind of strengthening that in some free time that you may or may not have. I would like I'm going to do a vocal warm up today because I'm not ready to do an actual vocal exercise today. I will do a vocal warmup today because I would like to get back in ownership, in command, and see what I can see and master of my own voice. That has been huge for me ever since the podcast started, but especially since vocal cord surgery, which is now three years ago. Oh my God. My vocal cord surgery was the week before my birthday. Oh, man.
[00:33:28] Speaker B: Was it 2021 or 2022? I thought it was 21.
[00:33:31] Speaker A: I think it might have been 21.
Good job. Three years post op.
Yeah.
There's no reason anything should scare me as much as the thought of singing in public scares me. So I'm on it. What are you doing for yourself? To get you closer to the things that you want and further away from being afraid of them? That is the last and one of the few questions I will ask you today. Otherwise, I will simply wave you off and tell you to get out into the world and keep it funky. After you subscribe, leave a review and or rating and smash the likes.
This podcast was produced by me with the help of many big big love to our executive assistant and editor, Riley Higgins. Our communications manager is Ori Vajadares. Our music is by Max Winnie, logo and brand design by Breetz, thumbnails and marketing by Fiona Small. You can make your tax deductible donations towards that. Move me. Thanks to our fiscal sponsor, the dance resource center, and also many thanks to you. I'm so glad you're here. And if you're digging the pod, please share it. Leave a review and rating. And if you want to coach with me and the many marvelous members of the words that move me community, visit wordsthatmoveme.com dot. If you're simply curious to know more about me and the work I do outstate of this podcast, visit thedanawilson.com.
