202.Alexander Chung: Teaching Dancers to Fish For Themselves

March 13, 2024 00:59:14
202.Alexander Chung: Teaching Dancers to Fish For Themselves
Words That Move Me with Dana Wilson
202.Alexander Chung: Teaching Dancers to Fish For Themselves

Mar 13 2024 | 00:59:14


Show Notes

Dana Wilson hosts Alexander Chung on the Words That Move Me Podcast this week! Alex has 500k YouTube subscribers and even more jokes. In this episode, we talk about what creativity is to us and how we create work and a sense of community. We also dig into the mentorship programs that have taken the dance community by storm. Find out why Alex runs his the way that he does and what Dana thinks about the rest of them. 

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Episode Transcript

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Do you have to pay taxes? Are you. Wait. Sorry. [00:00:05] Speaker B: Imagine. Yes. [00:00:11] Speaker A: Hello. Hello. I'm Dana. This is words that move me. Thank you for being here. I'm stoked. I always say that I'm stoked, but I'm stoked today in kind of a different way because I usually have, like, dear friends on the podcast, and today I have a new friend on the podcast, and it was so much fun getting to know him. Alexander Chung is my guest today, and we're talking about mentorship programs. We're talking about teaching styles and ways of leading. We're talking about creativity and what that means to both of us. I think you are really, really going to love and laugh a lot this episode. But before we get into it, we start every episode with wins. Today, I am celebrating. This is a very small win, both literally and otherwise. I took a risk today, y'all. I took a risk on my eyeliner, and I think it really paid off. I'm wearing white eyeliner today, plus black eyeliner today. And if that doesn't bring you right over to YouTube, I don't know what will. The podcast is in video and audio format these days if you have not been here in a while. And I think I like it. It was a huge. As it was going on, I was really second guessing myself. But both eyes, two little wings, like, I'm celebrating them both as wins. Because if you've ever done a cat eye, you know that one can be a win and the other can be a loss. I'm celebrating both of them as wins today. That's me. That's what's going well in my world. Now you go tell me about what's going well in yours. Can. Congratulations. I'm so glad that you're winning. Please keep crushing it. Okay, shall we do this thing? I'm so excited. I really, really enjoy this person and have laughed a lot. Enjoy Alexander Chung. And trying to get your finger on the pulse of his sense of humor. He is a slippery one because he is so serious and sincere and so silly and so canadian. So Canadian. Without any further ado, this is Alexander Chung. And also, that was the worst TikTok dance. It's going to make sense in a second. Alexander Chung, my friends, welcome to the podcast. [00:03:00] Speaker B: Thank you so much. Thank you for having me. [00:03:02] Speaker A: It's my pleasure to have you. Thank you for wearing shoes that match my rug. [00:03:07] Speaker B: You know, as planned out, these are. [00:03:10] Speaker A: The reasons why I think having a video format podcast pays off. The not so obvious reasons why having a video format podcast for dancers and choreographers is that, number one, we always have great shoes. But number two, sometimes those shoes match the carpet. My accent rug. That wrist roll. The dog loves to pee on exactly where your left foot is. [00:03:34] Speaker B: Love it. [00:03:34] Speaker A: And I've washed this rug now since episode, I think. How many episodes have we done in the video format? Twelve. I have washed this rug at least that many times since. Wrist roll. The dog christened it wrist roll. [00:03:52] Speaker B: Holding it down. The assistant. [00:03:54] Speaker A: Really impressive. Okay, so, tradition. On the podcast, I ask all of my guests to introduce themselves. And I know that can sometimes be daunting, but I'm curious to see how you do this. Also, because I'm so curious and excited to be getting to know you. A lot of the people I have on the podcast are already close friends. We have met, but don't know each other very well. So I'm excited to get to know you on your market intro. [00:04:19] Speaker B: All right. I'm guessing I know, right? [00:04:22] Speaker A: How does that feel? Well, if you like to look here, cut to wide. And if you really want to drive it home. Straight there. [00:04:32] Speaker B: Drive it home. [00:04:33] Speaker A: Drive it home. Alex, with the introduction, it feels like. And you could also stand up and deliver to my. Oh, my God. [00:04:41] Speaker B: It's Alex here. I am a dancer, choreographer entrepreneur. I'm from Canada. I moved to LA ten years ago. Yeah. [00:04:52] Speaker A: Are you serious? [00:04:53] Speaker B: Sometime. Not a lot of time. I don't know. [00:04:56] Speaker A: And our paths had never crossed until, like. [00:04:59] Speaker B: I know. Yeah. This is going to be fun. I feel like. Because we're on not opposite sides of the dance world, but we're on different sides, maybe. [00:05:06] Speaker A: I like to think we keep it balanced, like, where you're at and where I'm at. We're balancing. Orbiting. [00:05:11] Speaker B: Yes. [00:05:12] Speaker A: And now colliding. [00:05:13] Speaker B: And now we're colliding on video. And I am also. This is important detail. I'm also a friend of Dana, although she does not like Zodiac signs. And she almost got kicked out of a party. [00:05:24] Speaker A: This is true. You. Listen. I almost got kicked out of a birthday party for saying that I don't believe in zodiac signs. And I think it's not something you should say at a birthday party. I'm going to a holiday party tonight. I'll try it on. I'll audition tonight. I think at a birthday party, people care about birthdays. Otherwise they wouldn't be celebrating it. But people who care about birthdays are not necessarily the same people who care about Zodiac signs. I was in Santa Monica, so they care about Zodiac signs. Do you care about Zodiac signs? [00:05:55] Speaker B: How are you going to get me in trouble. [00:05:56] Speaker A: Okay. You've really. [00:05:58] Speaker B: No, I'm on the same page as you. I don't know. I feel like we're unpopular. [00:06:05] Speaker A: Somebody's walking by in the hallway. You're unpopular for caring about this. [00:06:09] Speaker B: No, I'm kind of like, eh, about. [00:06:11] Speaker A: Oh, I see it. [00:06:12] Speaker B: Yeah. Which is. I would also get kicked out of a birthday party. [00:06:15] Speaker A: It's unpopular to be wishwashy. There's people who are like, cancer, and then there's people who are like. But you're like. [00:06:22] Speaker B: You don't like. [00:06:23] Speaker A: Oh, okay. [00:06:24] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:06:24] Speaker A: Okay. [00:06:25] Speaker B: And I play this prank on my students sometimes because some of my students are really obsessed with Zodiac signs. So I'll say a random one, like, I'll be like, I'm a Leo or I'm a cancer. And then they go, oh, my God, you're so. This, this. And then I'll just. Sometimes my wife would be like, by the way, he's a Gemini. He's not actually this. And they are so offended. [00:06:44] Speaker A: Okay. This is what I'm really excited to get to know is your sense of humor. I'm excited to get to know you as a human, but your sense of humor. Okay. You didn't introduce yourself yet. Back up and then we'll get to the sense of humor part. [00:06:56] Speaker B: That's it. That's my introduction. [00:06:58] Speaker A: Okay, but you didn't say your zodiac sign. [00:07:00] Speaker B: Oh, I am a cancer. [00:07:02] Speaker A: No, you're a Gemini. You just said that. Wow, we're learning so much. Stage left, stage right. [00:07:11] Speaker B: Hey. Yo. [00:07:11] Speaker A: Okay, so we met for the actual first time in Edmonton in what was it, like 200 BC? It was a long time ago. It was before you moved here, obviously. [00:07:25] Speaker B: Yeah, it was probably like ten years ago. I had a studio, I was competing, and you were a judge. [00:07:31] Speaker A: Yes. [00:07:31] Speaker B: Artists emerge. Shout out. [00:07:32] Speaker A: Shout out. Thank you for having me. So many years ago. Yes. But did we interact? Did I give feedback? Was I voice recorded? Was it good? Did I help? [00:07:44] Speaker B: It was great. [00:07:44] Speaker A: Was I helpful? [00:07:45] Speaker B: You were great. You were great. [00:07:47] Speaker A: All I want is to be helpful. That's what the podcast is. That's what teaching is. [00:07:51] Speaker B: You're great. You're a legend. Dana, everybody. [00:07:58] Speaker A: Okay, well, then that feeds nicely into the time that we actually, actually met, which was a couple of weeks ago. As of the day of this recording. [00:08:06] Speaker B: You have a mustache. That's so cool. [00:08:07] Speaker A: I have a mustache here and a little hat over here on the. [00:08:11] Speaker B: Wow, you really went for it. [00:08:12] Speaker A: I did. [00:08:13] Speaker B: The hat. [00:08:14] Speaker A: Years of my life, 21st birthday. Marty paid for this one. [00:08:17] Speaker B: Awesome. [00:08:18] Speaker A: And then I think it was maybe one year later. All right, you can commit to it. Commit to it. She will chill out, I promise. Oh, no. [00:08:26] Speaker B: I have a little dog. [00:08:28] Speaker A: Do you? [00:08:28] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:08:28] Speaker A: What kind of dog? [00:08:30] Speaker B: He's a poodle. Something. Little curly, little small fluffy thing. Next time I'll bring him. [00:08:36] Speaker A: Please. Look at that. But she does have a booger in her. I have to get it. It's my thing. [00:08:44] Speaker B: Get the booger. [00:08:45] Speaker A: I can't. And I'm wiping it on my pants because work. Podcast. Oh, find it. Tattoo. [00:08:54] Speaker B: Tattoo. [00:08:55] Speaker A: Marty. One year later. I thought, like, this wasn't enough. Like, I needed to double down on that terrible pain, excruciating pain. And I just thought, I'm going to do that one more time. And not only does it not really still look like a hat, I apologize for her breath. I wish there was a command. She doesn't know. She doesn't know. Lay down. Yeah. Off work. [00:09:22] Speaker B: Turn off. [00:09:23] Speaker A: Yeah. Come over here. [00:09:24] Speaker B: I feel like this we can do. [00:09:26] Speaker A: Oh, you're resist actively, she says, oh, that's nice partnering, Riz. That's nice weight sharing. That's good. Lay down, please. Or go with Auntie Riley. Okay. Excruciating pain. [00:09:49] Speaker B: Yep. [00:09:51] Speaker A: It doesn't even look like a hat anymore. It looks kind of like the snake from the little prince that swallowed the elephant. Wow. Right? And or a speed bump and or a turtle. So what I'm thinking is I need to modify it somehow. She is relentless. [00:10:08] Speaker B: She loves me. [00:10:09] Speaker A: She really does. [00:10:10] Speaker B: Or she's just relentless. Or she's relentlessly in love your dog. [00:10:14] Speaker A: And is relentlessly in love with your dog and your fuzzy sweater. We really do have to move on because we have a lot to. So same Edmonton artists emerge. And then a couple weeks ago, Marty dropped in on your mentorship program and I dropped in on him dropping in on you guys. So it was like a double drop. And I was really struck by the way that you teach, and I will explain it very quickly, even though I love to pontificate. [00:10:45] Speaker B: Pontificate. [00:10:45] Speaker A: You asked more questions than you gave sentences. And when you're. I'll call them students. Although you do have. I don't want to be misleading. This is like a professional level intensive. Is it weird to call it an intensive? Would you call it a mentorship program? [00:11:04] Speaker B: Yeah, it's like a program. [00:11:05] Speaker A: Okay. [00:11:06] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:11:06] Speaker A: They're professional level dancers. Probably just looking to refine or go that extra mile. I don't know what it is they're looking for. I'm going to ask you what they're looking for and what you give them in just a second. But that was all I needed to know. I really like that style of feedback that empowers the performer versus assumes that you alone are omnipotent and can tell them everything they need to know in order to do all the things they want to do. Because I don't think you know them as well as they know themselves. And I don't think you know the industry as well as the industry is going to or for what the industry will be by the time they're in it because it changes so fast. And so when I'm leading, I love to ask, what's going well, what's not going well? What do you think? And you had different ways of asking that. A similar question that just revealed and made space for conversation and more learning. And it was just so much better than this seminar style thing that. Not that I expected that, but I was pleasantly surprised by how you led that room. [00:12:14] Speaker B: Thank you. Thank you for coming. [00:12:17] Speaker A: Oh, my God. It was a treasure. That was so much fun. [00:12:19] Speaker B: That was our first time actually getting to know each other, talking because, yeah, the industry and the world can just be so big sometimes. You can pass someone hundreds of times and not even know who they are. [00:12:32] Speaker A: How have we done that for ten years? Fascinating. Okay, so let's start with the mentorship intensive program. What do you call it? What do I call it? [00:12:41] Speaker B: Who knows? [00:12:42] Speaker A: I'll call it. Who knows? [00:12:43] Speaker B: Who knows? It's like a mentorship program. It's a dance community. [00:12:50] Speaker A: How many years have you been running? [00:12:53] Speaker B: So I had a studio in Canada for, like, ten years. [00:12:56] Speaker A: Okay. Which you built, like, actually built? [00:12:59] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, I didn't build. The building already existed, but I built the community. [00:13:05] Speaker A: Sorry, why did I think you built a building? [00:13:08] Speaker B: You're like, he built it. He built it, guys. [00:13:11] Speaker A: I really thought, like, you ground up that. [00:13:13] Speaker B: Wow. [00:13:13] Speaker A: No. [00:13:15] Speaker B: Do I look strong or something? You should. [00:13:19] Speaker A: I'm going to have to backtrack and find out where I. This is our conversation. We're like, this is going to be us getting to know each other is going to actually be on camera, unlearning the things that we've heard about each other that aren't true. Okay, so where is the studio? [00:13:36] Speaker B: Number one studios in Canada. I started it when I was, like, 17. My last year out of high school, I was just doing dance classes, and little did I know I was building a studio. And then I think my year out of high school, I signed a lease for a building, and you had this space and then many years later, now I'm in LA and I'm like, I'd always been craving building something in LA. [00:14:01] Speaker A: Yeah. Having a community. [00:14:04] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. So we started this, I think, two years ago. I've been running, just started this program and it's been growing, so it's really cool. It's just different and I don't know, classes. I was just getting bored of classes. [00:14:23] Speaker A: The isolated, standalone. [00:14:25] Speaker B: Yeah. And you're creating something new. Every week you walk in the room and you create a new energy, a new environment. And I was like, I just want to bring people together. And I also felt like I would see dancers come into LA and leave, and I don't just, I felt like something was missing. So I wanted to create, like, a home for people, a home for dancers to feel comfortable. Here we are. And I love it year, too. [00:14:51] Speaker A: And it feels like family. [00:14:53] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. [00:14:53] Speaker A: Nice. From what I felt in the room, I don't know if I would have been like, oh, this is family. Because there was a little bit of pressure. It did feel like there were high expectations. When I think of family, I think of sitting on the couch and binging the lord of the Rings trilogy over bottles of wine on end. [00:15:17] Speaker B: Love it. [00:15:17] Speaker A: And so that is not the vibe that I picked up on the room. I felt like there's high expectations in here. Work gets done in here, and I don't know. You tell me, the people who take your intensive, are they looking to be grilled? Are they looking to be nurtured? Are they looking to be like, what would you say is the goal of the people who step foot in that door? [00:15:42] Speaker B: Just such a range? Yeah. Okay. It's not catered to people that want to dance professionally. It's not catered to people that just want to learn how to freestyle. It's just such a range. I think everyone's there for different reasons. [00:15:55] Speaker A: Which is even more why it's important that you ask questions instead of rattle off the do's and don'ts, which are absolutely can't all be true always. And I don't know, anytime somebody in that mentor position gives a do's and don'ts, I immediately doubt, because there are exceptions to every single rule. And I was just thrilled to hear you asking questions instead of come on. [00:16:27] Speaker B: Statements about what I'll receive. That, and I think it goes bigger than dance. I think the goal of a leader or mentor coach is to help someone get to there themselves. Right. It's always more powerful if they get there themselves. [00:16:40] Speaker A: Yes. [00:16:41] Speaker B: So I think even just beyond dance, in relationships, or in any sort of mentorship position, if you can help someone else get there, they can click it in their brain. That's the best thing you can do. And a part of that is asking questions like, so what do you think in this? Or even you asked, what did you. [00:16:59] Speaker A: Guys do to arrive at this? [00:17:01] Speaker B: Yeah, that's great. [00:17:02] Speaker A: And I was like, yeah, what did you do? Because not only do you get to learn then, right? Because the teacher is always a student, or the best teachers, I think, are always students, but also they have to learn how to verbalize their process, which isn't always essential. But I think those of us who are really good at what we do can do that. And that, I think, is so important. And what you're pointing towards is this idea that if you give a man a fish, you will feed him for a day. But if you teach a man to fish, you feed him for a lifetime. [00:17:36] Speaker B: Come on, now you're teaching people how to fish. Come on. [00:17:39] Speaker A: Love it. Okay. So that's your community here. I am curious, because you seem like an optimistic person, like most Canadians, and you're from Calgary. Shout out Megan Lawson. [00:17:51] Speaker B: And I'm a cancer. Megan's the greatest. Megan's so cool. [00:17:56] Speaker A: And she is an avid listener of the podcast. So I'm telling her right now into her ear, I love you, Megan Lawson. [00:18:02] Speaker B: She's the best. [00:18:03] Speaker A: We love you. Yes. I think I've also, for the record, never met a Canadian that I do not like. But I really love Megan. [00:18:10] Speaker B: Losing. Represent Team Canada. [00:18:13] Speaker A: Yes. What are your thoughts? I'll call them techniques for navigating stops. Because if you started a studio when you were 17, made the move to Los Angeles, which I know for Canadians is not easy. That process is insane. You've gotten married, which, I'm not going to lie, I've worked on feature films that were less complicated than a wedding. So you are a person who can do hard things, and I want to know what it is that you think that gets you through them. [00:18:48] Speaker B: It's a good question. What gets me through hard things? [00:18:50] Speaker A: Yes. [00:18:51] Speaker B: What is something that gets me through challenging things? [00:18:53] Speaker A: Or just recall the last thing where you were like, fuck, I don't know what to do. [00:18:59] Speaker B: So I have a weird relationship with that. [00:19:01] Speaker A: Okay. [00:19:01] Speaker B: I don't know what to do. [00:19:03] Speaker A: Great. [00:19:05] Speaker B: I really am thinking about that. [00:19:06] Speaker A: Elaborate. What do you mean? You have an interesting relationship with. I don't know what to do because. [00:19:11] Speaker B: I'm in really small percentage of people. I think that will just go for it. All the time. Okay. [00:19:20] Speaker A: So hesitation doesn't really happen much for you. [00:19:22] Speaker B: No, I usually just go for it. If I have an idea, like my close friends or people in my family, when I call them about something, they're like, oh, yeah, he's going to do this. Okay. [00:19:32] Speaker A: Right. So you're rarely like, I don't know what to do. You're more like the guy that's like, hey, I've got this idea. I'm doing it. [00:19:38] Speaker B: Yes. I'm really trying to think. I'm stuck. How do we do hard things? [00:19:43] Speaker A: Yeah. Or do you just might not see them as being hard? It's possible, because I think the only thing that makes something hard is the way you're thinking about it. [00:19:53] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:19:55] Speaker A: Except for lifting weights, that actually is hard. Carry on. [00:19:58] Speaker B: You're hilarious. I need to get on your level. [00:20:02] Speaker A: You're hilarious. I just don't understand it yet. Every time. I just always think you're being serious. Yeah, I might later try to remember what's your sign? And I might think that you're. [00:20:12] Speaker B: It's a cancer. Yeah. No. So I do this thing where I'll say a joke and I'll never say I'm kidding. And my wife thinks for years, it goes crazy. I actually told Marty. I told him that you didn't end up going to the show, like, to the Renaissance show, and I never told him that I was. [00:20:29] Speaker A: Yeah, I talked to him that night. [00:20:32] Speaker B: Oh, really? [00:20:33] Speaker A: He was so confused. Yo. He was texting me all through the movie, and I was like, what is going on? I went to go see Renaissance right after I dropped in on you guys. [00:20:44] Speaker B: I love that. You love dropped in. [00:20:46] Speaker A: And I dropped everyone. I was wondering why he was still hitting me up for the whole movie. And then I called him afterwards to chat, and he told me. He was like, alex told me that your movie was canceled. And I was like, they don't cancel renaissance dude. [00:21:04] Speaker B: What did he say? [00:21:05] Speaker A: Beyonce's tour. Video tour. Video tour film. I don't remember exactly what he said. He was like, why would he say that? And I was like, I don't know. [00:21:15] Speaker B: Okay, great. [00:21:16] Speaker A: So do you only joke about trivial things, or do you also joke about serious things? [00:21:19] Speaker B: It really depends on the person, on who you're joking. No, I think if it's, like, really serious, someone would joke about it. But if it's small and it's dumb, and especially someone like Marty, who's a jokester, I will joke with him a lot about anything. Yeah, I don't think he trusts me that much right now. Just because I'm always joking with him, but it's great. But hard things. So how I get through hard things, this is actually something I think is very slept on, but it's like having mentors and advisors, and I do a lot of calls with a lot of people, not a lot of different people, but I have people I see as mentors, as advisors, and I feel like that's a big one. [00:21:57] Speaker A: Even makes a lot of sense. [00:21:58] Speaker B: Yeah, I sent a video for something, and I had a few people. I was like, what are your thoughts on this? What's your advice on this? I was talking to someone last night. I was like, I just finished this project. I'm so curious what your thoughts are on it. My friend Jason Koenig. Shout out. Yeah. And that's in anything, like, in relationships and work and finances and health, lifestyle. [00:22:18] Speaker A: I have a team. [00:22:19] Speaker B: Yeah. Someone said this to me, and it's so good. There's, like, three levels of relationship. There's, like, people that are kind of, like, pouring into you, that they're visually, like, they're upwards, they're pouring into you, they're investing into you. And then you have your friends. They're like, they're this, and then there's people that you're investing into, you're pouring into, and every relationship is different. And there was so long where I had mentors and people that were giving to me, and I was like, well, what can I do for you? How can I give back? And they're like, it's fine. They never answer that question. And it's because that's that dynamic of that relationship. And now have students in my program, even just in general, they're always like, I'll help them. And they're like, okay, let us know if you need anything, if you need someone to talk to. And I'm like, no, this is my time. This is my place. I just pour into you. This is the dynamics of this. So I see it as, like, there's that, and I feel like they're so important. And I think talking about dancers, I think it's the biggest thing slept on is, like, having. [00:23:27] Speaker A: There's no systematic structure for let. Like, there is in medicine. You work your way up ranks, and you have. I don't know the correct words for it, and I should because my whole family is in medicine. But you have a residency, you have an internship, you have systematic areas and people in place to help you learn how things work. And in our world, we don't have anything that systematic. I think socially, most of us wind up finding communities, and those communities have leaders. And we find ourselves learning from individuals as much as we learn from our little groupings of people. But to actually have a person invested in you is like a rare and very special thing. I'm lucky to have found it in Marty and several other people over the course of the years. But I like the way. Sorry. [00:24:21] Speaker B: And even like invested. That's a very strong word. That's a word. But I think even just people that they're like mentors for you, they're like advisors. [00:24:32] Speaker A: So people who are less care, like they don't maybe care. Well, I don't know. [00:24:38] Speaker B: Sometimes your partner or there's people that are more invested into you, but they're not. Invested is a tricky word. [00:24:47] Speaker A: Well, I guess you could be a mentor to someone, or maybe you can't. I don't know. We should pull up the definition of mentor. I'm glad we're talking about this because there are advisor. Advisor. You see them as being different. There are 8000 different mentorship programs for dancers right now. So me saying that there's no systematic way for people to climb the ranks is actually not true anymore. There are 1000 ways for people to do it. What is the most effective way is probably different for the individual artist. But I think a mentor is someone who is invested in you and an advisor is somebody that I pay for their expertise. [00:25:31] Speaker B: Yeah. And then to add a step, I think they're also more than invested. I think they've also been down that road before. In a very ideal world. A part of that role is too, is you going down the road and they can help guide you navigate because they're like, I've done this, I've been here. I can help you go a little more straight. Not that going off is straight may not be the best word, but help have a little less speed bumps along the way. [00:26:01] Speaker A: I hear you. Or at least be a really great copilot to have. [00:26:05] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:26:06] Speaker A: A companion or the person reading the map. Helping you read the map. [00:26:10] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:26:11] Speaker A: Love that. Okay. [00:26:12] Speaker B: And it's funny you say there's a lot of programs that I was curious, what is your thought? Because this is going to be fun. Please. [00:26:19] Speaker A: Yeah. Give me the question. [00:26:21] Speaker B: What is your thoughts from your background? Because the dance community has changed a lot since COVID This is something that's been birthed recently. What is your thoughts of all these different teachers having all these different programs? [00:26:37] Speaker A: I think it is important. Wow. I've never had to answer this question before on camera. I think it's important for many options to exist, right? I don't want to ever see a monopoly. I don't ever want to see one person teaching how you should be a dancer. I think it's best that there be 25 people teaching how you should be a dancer and do this industry thing. More options in general is more better. [00:27:08] Speaker B: More better. Love it. [00:27:09] Speaker A: But, yeah, I think it is hard for people to choose what is the most economic and valuable for them. Dancers, especially aspiring dancers, probably don't have a ton of money. So it's hard for them to know what's the program that will work best for them without trying all of them, and they can't afford to try all of them. So I think what I wish is that people would be more upfront about what they're offering. What I wish is that people wouldn't make the promise of offering work at the end of the intensive. And I think sometimes that's implied, sometimes that's straight up spoken and I know that that's never the case. Like, I have mentored and taken people under my wing that I still haven't hired yet because they're not right for the job. You only will get to hire someone if they're right for the job, no matter how many times they've taken your class or paid for your intensive or things like that. So I think the part that ruffles my feathers is sometimes the cost of entry and the promise that at the end of it, there'll be work for you, because that's just not the way our world works. [00:28:25] Speaker B: Can I ask you another question? [00:28:26] Speaker A: Please. [00:28:27] Speaker B: Now we're flowing. [00:28:28] Speaker A: Nice. Hit me. [00:28:29] Speaker B: So if there's a dancer that's like, they're 20, they moved to LA, they're like, I resonate so much with Dana. I feel like she's me, she's older, me. [00:28:40] Speaker A: Nice. [00:28:40] Speaker B: How would they go through a process of having you as a mentor, like an advisor? What would that look like? [00:28:47] Speaker A: Well, it's funny you should ask, Alex, because I have a mentorship. Let's get. I. I am a coach. I'm a certified career coach, which is different to me than mentorship in one big, big way. I think mentors, like you mentioned, as a copilot or as like a map person, will say, oh, take this right, right here, because that's what I did. Or don't turn there, because that's what I did and that isn't good for you. This young person, however much they admire me or have a similar taste to mine or want to replicate my career for themselves. They aren't me. And the industry that they're walking into isn't the one that I walked through. So as a coach, instead of encouraging my values, my path, I try to hold up a mirror and say, what are your values? What's the path that you want to take by asking questions instead of by saying, here's what I think is good. Here's what I think is bad. Here's what I did. Here's what I didn't do. Here's what you should and shouldn't do. So I actually offer coaching. I have a community that is made up of about 60 people right now. [00:30:03] Speaker B: Congrats. [00:30:04] Speaker A: Thank you. Love work. Yes, love. We group coach twice a month and I have a few people that I coach one on one. [00:30:11] Speaker B: Cool. So they would find you, message you. [00:30:13] Speaker A: And they would visit wordsthepme.com and look into. [00:30:19] Speaker B: Never told me about that. [00:30:20] Speaker A: I know, right? Because now you're going to be all up in my camera. I love it. [00:30:24] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, I block your face. [00:30:25] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:30:28] Speaker B: I didn't realize I would block you. Well, I'm not going to do that again. I'm not going to do that again. [00:30:34] Speaker A: Okay. [00:30:34] Speaker B: That's how they. [00:30:36] Speaker A: But wait, back up. [00:30:37] Speaker B: Okay. [00:30:37] Speaker A: That's how they would share time with me because I'm in the coaching calls and I'm on our slack. And I know them by name, I know them by face. That's how they share time with me. But to work with me, the only thing that is required is that I know your talent and your professionalism and that you then be right for the job. And I don't control that. So I have a really hard time and I try to be very transparent at the outset with the difference between coaching and mentorship. I'm going to help you see yourself through your own eyes, not mine, not somebody else's. And teach you how to fish. [00:31:19] Speaker B: Yeah. I love it. Thank you. [00:31:21] Speaker A: Thank you. [00:31:22] Speaker B: This is also really cool because I feel like I'm on the cusp of the younger generation, like the old generation, but I think I naturally fall more with the younger generation. [00:31:32] Speaker A: Well, if you were opening a studio at 17, then yes, you're on the top edge of your demographic. [00:31:40] Speaker B: Let's go. [00:31:40] Speaker A: I would say that you're a grown up for your age group. [00:31:44] Speaker B: I'll take it. I'll take it. But this is cool because I feel like you're from the old. Like your generation is different than mine. This is a fun conversation, too. [00:31:51] Speaker A: Wait, how old are you? [00:31:52] Speaker B: 31. [00:31:53] Speaker A: Okay. I'm 37. [00:31:54] Speaker B: So almost but you've been hanging with the older or not the older, but you've been around for a while. [00:31:59] Speaker A: That's true. Yes. I moved to LA basically the day I turned 18. [00:32:03] Speaker B: Let's go. Wow. [00:32:05] Speaker A: It was like 16 years ago. [00:32:06] Speaker B: Yeah, dude, come on. Now. It's a long time for a great Gemini. So I feel like maybe I have to get us. Maybe you're the jokester today. [00:32:16] Speaker A: It might be that. [00:32:17] Speaker B: So I feel like the older generation was. I don't know why I always see this thing that I was like, everyone has mentorship, everyone has programs and training groups. I know. I feel like there's a little bit of poopoo. Yeah, because poopoo. Because it didn't exist. And now it's like everyone has their own thing and I'm like, this is an interesting dynamic. [00:32:36] Speaker A: Right. [00:32:36] Speaker B: But I personally think it's awesome because now people and teachers are accessible. Whereas before, yeah, it'd be impossible to get in someone's space. But now I think all the teachers and choreographers are becoming more entrepreneurial. They're all business owners now, right? [00:32:56] Speaker A: Yes. Or have a thing. Have an additional thing. I do consider myself a full time choreographer and performer and I happen to have a podcast and I happen to have a coaching business. And I happen to be one of the four vice presidents of the Choreographers Guild. [00:33:13] Speaker B: Congrats. [00:33:14] Speaker A: I know you killed that. Thank you. [00:33:16] Speaker B: You were the MC for that event and she was amazing. [00:33:18] Speaker A: Thank you. [00:33:18] Speaker B: Yeah. I was going to go to your camera, but I want to block your face. [00:33:22] Speaker A: We have a lot of work to do, but I think what dancers are good at. I was just talking to Galen hooks about this is noticing a gap and filling it. Like you said, we create things. It's what we do. You wanted to create a community. You wanted to create a family feeling, place to train. That's what you built. You notice a void and you filled it. What I have noticed is that having a career, especially a successful career, finding financial stability as a performing artist in entertainment means way more than what you learn in dance class. You have to have a mental fortitude. You have to have technique for thinking, not just technique for performing. And so that's what I wish I had. And that's the gap that I am trying to fill. And that just doesn't sound like lists of do's and don'ts. Yeah, it just doesn't sound like that and it doesn't. Look, know you can't film the thing I do. You can't put it on Instagram. Well, you could but it'd be people's deepest, darkest, most personal details. So I can't advertise that part of my life as well as I can advertise the work I do in TV and film, because that's literally built to be shared and seen. But these kind of deeper, these kind of less spoken tricks of the trade aren't easily shown and shared or marketed. Even so, I don't know. I think a lot of people that have dance intensives that promote them as dance intensives, it's kind of an easy in, right? Because you use the material, you use the people who paid you to take your program, to advertise your program. And so it can really be self sustaining. And I think that might be why people have a chip on their shoulder about it. And of course, there's this, like, you shouldn't even be teaching idea. You're too young to be teaching. But to that I say, well, then, where's your class? If you have a better alternative? I always look for something to admire, and that's awesome. Pulling anything off in this city is not easy. Yeah, like getting my ass into dance class isn't easy. Starting a program, building a community, having a follow ship. [00:35:47] Speaker B: I don't know if vulnerable is the right word, but you really are putting yourself out there to be rejected. Yes. [00:35:55] Speaker A: So I'm here for all of it. And I hope that people continue starting things and making them accessible enough for people to find out what works for them and what doesn't. [00:36:05] Speaker B: I had a thought. I have an unfiltered thought. Oh, go. [00:36:08] Speaker A: Yes. [00:36:08] Speaker B: So you said something like, dancers are problem solvers. I was thinking. I was like. I almost think, in a way, I know so many dancers that are extremely passive. They're just like, where do I go? What do I do? And then I know so many choreographers and teachers that are extremely assertive. And I do think there's some sort of go get them mentality that you have when you're a choreographer and teacher, because it's a lot of, you have to make the first move, you have to take the first step. And also in a funny way or in an interesting way, there's dancers that are so talented, they could choreograph their blanks off. They could choreograph so good. They're so good, but they are just scared to put themselves out there or to make that first step. And then you have some of these choreographers that are amazing, but their choreos is a seven out of ten, but their minds and their grind is an eleven out of ten. [00:37:03] Speaker A: Well, this is an excellent opportunity to interject. Being a choreographer, as you well know, is not the same as making up hot eight counts. To be the head of a department, to be a leader of the department, for sure, it is about so much more than eight counts. So, yes, although that dancer probably can choreograph their ass off. Can they be on the call sheet, the choreographer? [00:37:30] Speaker B: Right. [00:37:30] Speaker A: Maybe not. Or I'm sure with great training or with a mentor, probably. But I think what you're pointing towards, which is the idea that many dancers are voiceless or passive, is part of the reason I have this podcast in the first place. Because I love dancers with a mind, I love dancers with a voice. I love dancers with something to say. Those are the people who I hire. I don't hire the dancers that I have to fill in every blank for them because I don't have time for that. So I think it's a side effect of our training. It's a side effect of being taught by people who love to be the omnipotent, to be the God figure. And when that is your leader, it's probably common to. And we're making a monolith of dancers right now and of choreographers and no, shouldn't do that. But it's just for the sake of. [00:38:26] Speaker B: Conversation, say yes, don't ask questions. [00:38:28] Speaker A: Yeah. Yes. I think it's like the culture of being a dancer is someone says jump, and we literally say, how high, how high? And what foot do I land on and what count? And is it a gleesad or a soda shop? And I really think that that is useful to a point. It helps people keep an orderly classroom. It helps people advance. Right. That works to a certain point. And then it stops working. Those dancers get to LA and will likely flounder, because this is just one example of why. But we don't have enough rehearsal time to tell all 75 of the people in the opening scene of La La Land what to do at every moment. So you have to say, okay, you're in a car, it's really hot. You get out. This is the eight count, but you have to look at camera on this, you have to close the door on this, and you have to engage with your eyes, with the person across from you. But don't make eyes with camera. And we're rolling back to ones. You need to have a mind to do that. So is it true that many dancers are aiming to be more robot than human? Probably. Especially now when I think a lot of what gets love on the social media is tricks and or the opposite of tricks, which is just very lowest common denominator moves that everybody can do. [00:39:52] Speaker B: Amazing. [00:39:53] Speaker A: Do you know what I mean? It's like either. Or. It's like either I can do 18 turns with my leg up like this, or I get it. [00:39:59] Speaker B: Get it one more time. [00:40:01] Speaker A: I started with a woo, which is funny because usually with the tiniest move. [00:40:05] Speaker B: And you know what it is, right? [00:40:07] Speaker A: But mostly it's this. Hey, either of those two things can really catch fire in the social media sphere. I don't see myself as being in either of those two places or I don't really light up for either of those two things. But I don't have trouble lighting up for my work period, so I'm fine. We got very off topic, but I think. [00:40:31] Speaker B: No, I love it. And also, thank you for being so accepting and loving and down to talk. [00:40:38] Speaker A: I mean, podcast. Hi. [00:40:39] Speaker B: Let's go. [00:40:39] Speaker A: Right? [00:40:40] Speaker B: No, but I feel like you're very encouraging and that's an awesome quality to have. [00:40:47] Speaker A: Thank you. [00:40:48] Speaker B: I think you're also very open. Very open. [00:40:52] Speaker A: I blame that on being a middle child. I have an older sister. Do you believe in birth order? We know you don't. [00:40:58] Speaker B: I could get on birth. [00:40:59] Speaker A: I can get down with it. Makes sense. [00:41:02] Speaker B: Oh, wait, not that astrology doesn't make sense. Hey, you told me I would have to leave your house if I didn't hate on astrology with you. [00:41:09] Speaker A: I did tell him that before the interview started. [00:41:12] Speaker B: She's like, I need someone that will. [00:41:14] Speaker A: Take this part of my secret agenda. [00:41:16] Speaker B: To take astrology and back on track. [00:41:18] Speaker A: Back to birth order. Middle child. I think I can see at least two sides, but multiple sides of a problem. How's this for a callback? Problem solving is kind of where you entered our last conversation point. Excuse you. That you think a lot of dancers aren't naturally problem solvers. [00:41:42] Speaker B: Oh, calm down. [00:41:44] Speaker A: Isn't that what you said? [00:41:45] Speaker B: That. No, you said more passive. Not all. [00:41:49] Speaker A: Not all right, not all. [00:41:51] Speaker B: Well, I see you trying to get me. [00:41:52] Speaker A: Trying to get me putting words in your mouth. [00:41:54] Speaker B: No, here's what I think. You know what? Maybe I did say that. I don't know why. The way that you said it sounded so. [00:41:59] Speaker A: Well, because you're canadian, so it sounded nice. [00:42:01] Speaker B: I was like, wait, I never said that. Some are. Some are passive. [00:42:06] Speaker A: I'm trying to hold two conversations at once. Dang it. [00:42:09] Speaker B: What about the woe. [00:42:13] Speaker A: Now? Three? I think that creativity is problem solving. That's how I define creativity. If we take this out of dance context. I do. Let's say the problem is, I'm hungry, and I have to solve that problem with creating a meal. There are people who will solve that problem with, like, a flourish and a garnish and a flavor profile. And then there are people who will solve that problem with peanut butter and jelly. And that is fine. It doesn't mean one is more or less creative as a person. I'm just saying you create the solution to that problem with degrees of creativity. And for a person like us, the problem might be, I'm teaching a room full of 150 kids between age seven and ten, and I need them to, or I want them to, at the end of it, have an understanding of rhythm, have an understanding or at least some historical context of something that we did. I also would like for their parents to feel that their money was well spent, and I would like them to have fun. So those are four problems that I need to solve with a 60 minutes class. So those four problems are how I will creatively choose a song, choose a lesson plan, engage with people, decide how and to what degree I engage with parents. That's me creating solutions to little, tiny problems that I call my work. And when you're on set, you have different kind of problems, and you solve them differently. We could answer this what is creativity? Question with a lot of different metaphors. Like, creativity is a muscle that you flex, or creativity is like this, or creativity is like that. I really think creativity is simply problem solving. [00:44:02] Speaker B: That's good. [00:44:02] Speaker A: I don't think it's a stroke of genius. I don't think it comes from outside of us. And then we're the vessel, although that is, get it? Poetic and beautiful. A lot of people think that. I think. I didn't just answer the question. [00:44:15] Speaker B: No, I love it. I wanted to disagree with you in the beginning, but I agree. [00:44:19] Speaker A: And then I convinced you because I. [00:44:20] Speaker B: Was thinking of construction, something goes wrong, a door is weird, and, yeah, fix it. Sometimes you have to be creative to fix the problem. There's no manual for some of these things. [00:44:31] Speaker A: Yes. And I also love people who tell me they're not creative and then convincing them that they are, because there are people who will say, like, my accountant or my bookkeeper will be like, oh, you're the creative one. And I'm like, are you kidding me? The way that you made my taxes make sense. That's creative like that. Please don't audit me. [00:44:52] Speaker B: I was about to make a joke. But you already did. [00:44:54] Speaker A: About the audit. [00:44:54] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:44:55] Speaker A: Do you have to pay taxes? Are you. Wait. Sorry. [00:45:00] Speaker B: Imagine. Yes. [00:45:03] Speaker A: Wait. Do you have to? [00:45:04] Speaker B: Wow, your brain is a beautiful place. How do you. I think you might be worse than. [00:45:10] Speaker A: Me, Dana, at the jumping around. [00:45:12] Speaker B: Yeah, you could be worse than me. [00:45:13] Speaker A: Are you? [00:45:14] Speaker B: Or you're just more. [00:45:15] Speaker A: What I meant to ask. [00:45:17] Speaker B: Not yet. [00:45:18] Speaker A: Okay. No. So obviously you pay taxes because you live in one of the highest tax states that there is. But when you do your taxes, how does that work? You're not a citizen. [00:45:28] Speaker B: This is not on your lesson plan. [00:45:30] Speaker A: Did you think. [00:45:33] Speaker B: And I sat in the chair, you go, so how do your taxes work? [00:45:36] Speaker A: How do your taxes work? [00:45:37] Speaker B: I just pay them just like you do. Yeah. [00:45:41] Speaker A: Are you bummed about the health care thing? Be real. [00:45:45] Speaker B: I don't know. I don't really know what goes on that's not perfect. I have strengths and weaknesses, and this whole conversation is a big weakness. [00:45:51] Speaker A: Okay, are you ready for a strength? Because I have a feeling you're going to be ready to rapid fire. [00:45:54] Speaker B: I'm ready. [00:45:55] Speaker A: Rapid fire me. Okay. Wrist roll with it. Rapid fire. Just trust your instincts. [00:46:00] Speaker B: Okay. [00:46:01] Speaker A: We're going to go like standard American first, and then we're going to get to a really nice Canadian. [00:46:06] Speaker B: Okay. Standard American. [00:46:07] Speaker A: Yeah. Got it. What is a move that you would delete from dance for all time? Like, I never want to see or do that move ever again. [00:46:15] Speaker B: Oh, okay. It's like a forward hip thrust. [00:46:18] Speaker A: My God. Yeah, this is from Ikea. [00:46:20] Speaker B: It's like boom, boom. Yeah. [00:46:24] Speaker A: I don't know what I just thrusted her. [00:46:26] Speaker B: I think I do it. No, I do back. [00:46:29] Speaker A: Okay. I love that for us. I would probably also delete that move, although people already know this. If you're a big fan of the podcast, you already know my answer to that question is sea jump. There you go. Good one. I was like, Riley, come through. I'm awake. I'm here. Yeah. A sea jump. I hate doing them. I don't even like looking at them. They are just uncomfortable. [00:46:50] Speaker B: I have another one. [00:46:51] Speaker A: Go. [00:46:51] Speaker B: This one's controversial. I would also take out humping the floor. I don't like. [00:46:57] Speaker A: We could do without very few contexts. Am I okay with that? [00:47:02] Speaker B: I don't know. Yeah, I think, yeah, dance is getting a little crazy. Or maybe it's been crazy. [00:47:09] Speaker A: Anyways, it just depends on where you're looking. There's been crazy dance happening. [00:47:13] Speaker B: Oh, I thought you mean on a floor hump, like where you're looking if. [00:47:17] Speaker A: You'Re looking at the fitness. No, I think dance has been crazy and there's been floor humping since the dawn of floors. But that's the sound bite we were looking for. [00:47:28] Speaker B: I'm so glad she's here. Since the dawn of floors, but it's getting a little crazy. [00:47:32] Speaker A: Well, it's just on our feet all the time. And so it's like, yeah, it's getting crazy. It used to just happen at the clear, but now it's happening in your back pocket. [00:47:40] Speaker B: Get it? Someone's probably doing it in that rim over there. Okay, next. [00:47:45] Speaker A: Somewhere right now, someone's humming the floor. Of that we can be sure. But if you had the power to delete it, here's the actual question, right. If you had the power to delete. [00:47:56] Speaker B: The stuck on the floor, what would. [00:47:57] Speaker A: They be doing instead? What would you replace it with? [00:48:00] Speaker B: Dancing. [00:48:00] Speaker A: What's your favorite? [00:48:01] Speaker B: Instead of. This is the next question. [00:48:03] Speaker A: Yes. I mean, well, yeah, favorite move. Pass. If you could replace the floor, maybe. [00:48:10] Speaker B: Like a body roll. I don't know. [00:48:12] Speaker A: Okay. [00:48:12] Speaker B: Yes, but I wouldn't replace it with a body roll. [00:48:14] Speaker A: I would just encourage that as an option. Okay. That's very canadian of you. You can do a collaboration with anyone, living or dead. Who is it? [00:48:23] Speaker B: Collaboration with? Anyone, living or dead. This is going to sound crazy, but it'd be so fun to dance with LeBron James or something like that. [00:48:31] Speaker A: Nice. [00:48:32] Speaker B: I don't know. If I went home and I'm like, I just did a collab like, me and LeBron just danced together. That'd be so fun. [00:48:39] Speaker A: I love this for you. And I want to watch that so bad. You get to listen to one album and only one album for the rest of time. I'm sorry to do this hypothetical bullshit to you, but I'm so curious. [00:48:53] Speaker B: I would say Chris Brown royalty. Wow. Sorry. [00:48:57] Speaker A: A music video you wish you were in. [00:48:59] Speaker B: I would say fine. China. [00:49:00] Speaker A: Wow. [00:49:01] Speaker B: I guess I'm a fan. I guess I'm a Chris Brown. [00:49:03] Speaker A: Okay. Yeah. I did not see that coming. [00:49:04] Speaker B: Not the video, but, like, the dance video. [00:49:06] Speaker A: I get it. [00:49:07] Speaker B: Because a music video, like the dance was cut a lot, but they're like a dance video for it. [00:49:11] Speaker A: A dance only. The dance edit. Yeah, I think there should be a dance edit of every musical ever made. [00:49:16] Speaker B: Let's go. Who do we need to call? [00:49:19] Speaker A: Everyone. [00:49:21] Speaker B: Okay, back on track. [00:49:23] Speaker A: Podcasts. Cats or dogs? [00:49:25] Speaker B: I don't even know the first word that you said. [00:49:27] Speaker A: Cats or dogs. Are you a cats person? [00:49:30] Speaker B: I still can't hear that first word. [00:49:33] Speaker A: He's making a joke. [00:49:34] Speaker B: That's how I feel. [00:49:36] Speaker A: It took me fucking an hour. Coffee or tea? [00:49:41] Speaker B: Neither. Oops. [00:49:44] Speaker A: Dunkin donuts or Tim Hortons? [00:49:48] Speaker B: I still didn't hear the first word. It's like your words, like, not coming out right. [00:49:54] Speaker A: Fun fact, I have stock in Tim Hortons. That's how much I love Tim Hortons. Do you love Tim Hortons that much? [00:50:00] Speaker B: Yeah. Tim Hortons is great. [00:50:02] Speaker A: Do you have stock in Tim Hortons? [00:50:03] Speaker B: No. You are. [00:50:04] Speaker A: I love Tim Hortons more than. [00:50:07] Speaker B: That's impressive. [00:50:08] Speaker A: What did you think of the Justin Bieber line of Tim bits? Tim Biebs. Is that what they were called? What were they called? [00:50:14] Speaker B: Something like that. Yeah. I wasn't that invested to really care about it, but it looked. [00:50:18] Speaker A: Were you an advisor? [00:50:20] Speaker B: I was not ready to invest as a mentor. Wow. Good callback. [00:50:23] Speaker A: Okay, this one's important. Ketchup chips or all seasoned ketchup chips? Ketchup chips. [00:50:29] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:50:30] Speaker A: Same. [00:50:31] Speaker B: Nice. [00:50:32] Speaker A: Hickory sticks or pretzel sticks? [00:50:34] Speaker B: Wow. [00:50:35] Speaker A: I love canadian snack food. [00:50:37] Speaker B: I'll say. Hickory sticks. What about you? [00:50:39] Speaker A: So good. Hickory sticks. So good. [00:50:41] Speaker B: Had one for a while. [00:50:43] Speaker A: Poutine or chili fries? [00:50:46] Speaker B: Poutine. [00:50:46] Speaker A: Okay. [00:50:47] Speaker B: You know these answers. [00:50:50] Speaker A: You're going straight Canada all day. [00:50:51] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:50:52] Speaker A: Okay. This next one has nothing to do with Canada, okay. It just has to do with ballet, a ce song or an. [00:51:02] Speaker B: Really? [00:51:03] Speaker A: I don't know why I get such a kick out of this. [00:51:05] Speaker B: I'm going to say the second one, Assamblay. [00:51:09] Speaker A: It means to assemble. That's probably why you like it, because you build dance studios and stuff. [00:51:14] Speaker B: Wow. Get it? [00:51:14] Speaker A: Another good callback. I am on fire. [00:51:17] Speaker B: Your phone is going off. [00:51:18] Speaker A: What's the let? Is it. [00:51:20] Speaker B: No, no, I get it. [00:51:22] Speaker A: Another joke that I missed. See, I'm learning you. This is perfect. What is the last song that you belted, like, really sang? [00:51:30] Speaker B: It's probably like some worship song when I was showering and I just yelled it out. [00:51:37] Speaker A: Nice. Can you sing? You strike me as being a. [00:51:39] Speaker B: No, not at all. [00:51:41] Speaker A: Really? [00:51:42] Speaker B: No. But I'll take that compliment. I don't think I can. [00:51:45] Speaker A: It was a question. [00:51:48] Speaker B: No, I think that's a compliment. You said, you strike me the first I could sing. [00:51:52] Speaker A: You're right. [00:51:53] Speaker B: That's a compliment. Wow. You are. I'm never coming back. [00:51:57] Speaker A: Got dukes up with you today. This is so much fun. Oh, also, we're dressed to match, so. [00:52:02] Speaker B: Maybe this is just our duet jacket. [00:52:05] Speaker A: Did you bring it? [00:52:06] Speaker B: No. [00:52:07] Speaker A: They don't look great on camera. We do have the same jacket, but we could never be filmed in that jacket. We could be photographed but not filmed in that jacket. [00:52:14] Speaker B: Exactly. [00:52:14] Speaker A: So let's start thinking of whatever that event is that we're going to. [00:52:17] Speaker B: I love it. [00:52:18] Speaker A: Twins at last one. And this is podcast related, so make it good. Take your time on this one. [00:52:23] Speaker B: Okay. [00:52:26] Speaker A: You have mentioned that you don't typically think, what should I do? That leads me to believe that you have a pretty strong north star. Or like a guiding principle, something in your guts that says go or act or, I don't know, do. And I'm wondering, what are the words that move you? What is your north star? What's your guiding principle? Is it a poem? Is it a mantra? Is it a word? Is it like some people just straight up just say love or something like that? I'm trying to think of all the other good answers to this question. What are the words that move you? [00:53:06] Speaker B: I think it would be this. I think it'd be there's people out there that need you. [00:53:12] Speaker A: Yeah, man. [00:53:14] Speaker B: I would say that's it. [00:53:16] Speaker A: Yeah. Do you believe it? You feel it right now? [00:53:18] Speaker B: 100%. [00:53:19] Speaker A: How does it make you feel to think that? [00:53:22] Speaker B: Yeah, it feels right. It feels real. [00:53:25] Speaker A: Right. [00:53:26] Speaker B: And I think, yeah. When there's people on the other side of something, you do it. And when you're on the other side of something, it only lasts so long. Like the inspiration only lasts so long. [00:53:36] Speaker A: That's interesting. Doing for thyself versus doing for. [00:53:39] Speaker B: Yeah. And I think some people live a decade like that, or maybe two decades, they live for themselves and then their head hits a pillow. [00:53:47] Speaker A: Well, here's the tricky bit, is that in order to help other people, you also do have to live for yourself. Like, you must surely at some point need to put yourself first so that you can help the people. Now I have more questions. How do you put yourself first? What does it look like in your world for you to do that? [00:54:06] Speaker B: There's a core belief in me that you can never fill yourself up, you can never love yourself enough, that you're just like, okay, today I'm 1000%. I think I do have a belief that we live fully. When we're serving and we're loving and helping others, there's a part of us that becomes filled up. [00:54:27] Speaker A: Are you ready for me to disagree? [00:54:29] Speaker B: I love it. Yeah. [00:54:32] Speaker A: I believe that I can love myself 100%. [00:54:35] Speaker B: Yeah, I love that. [00:54:36] Speaker A: I do. I don't find that I achieve it 100% of the time, but when I remember that I am 100% worthy of love and that I am 100% capable of loving, like, yo, I can love strong. [00:54:54] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:54:54] Speaker A: I can love really strong. [00:54:56] Speaker B: I believe. [00:54:56] Speaker A: Ask Riz. She's like, mom, back up a little bit. There's a lot of love right now. There's a lot coming at me. I know that I can love. I know I'm capable of loving. And I know that I'm capable of being loved. I'm able to receive it. And no matter what I produce, no matter if I change someone's day today or not, no matter if I learned something today or progressed today, I'm worthy of love. Of feeling full, for sure. I know this because I always come bring this back to my nieces. I've also talked about this on the podcast a lot. I have two awesome and amazing nieces that are so lovable. They're the best. They're so great. I'm sorry. Riz also is great. But my nieces are like, really it. And the youngest one can'tie. Her shoes and can't say her R's. And the other one loses stuff and has tantrums still and struggles with math and has never been in a music video or choreographed a movie. And they are both so worthy of love that I know that I must be. Everyone is absolutely baseline at just being a human. They are. And when I remember that, I feel full as fuck. [00:56:17] Speaker B: Yeah, I love that. [00:56:18] Speaker A: Full as fuck. [00:56:19] Speaker B: Yeah. No, I love that. Yeah, I love that. [00:56:23] Speaker A: Do you love yourself 100% right now? [00:56:26] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:56:26] Speaker A: Nice. [00:56:27] Speaker B: Do you? [00:56:28] Speaker A: Yeah, I do. What if that was my actual objective on the podcast? Is just to encourage full love of the self and of the guest and of the person listening and of the. [00:56:38] Speaker B: Floor when you're doing the thing. Sorry. Back. [00:56:42] Speaker A: The callback of all callbacks. Loving the floor. [00:56:46] Speaker B: Loving the floor as much as you love yourself. [00:56:48] Speaker A: At least as much as you love yourself. [00:56:50] Speaker B: Boom. There's your title. [00:56:51] Speaker A: Thank you for not losing your mind on my dog as she potted. Sigh for an hour. She's falling. She's falling. Don't fall. And I really do look forward to getting to know you more. And I hope our dance paths cross soon. [00:57:02] Speaker B: Oh, they will. We'll make it. [00:57:03] Speaker A: Shall we? [00:57:04] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:57:04] Speaker A: Okay. [00:57:05] Speaker B: We shall. Thank you again for having me. Best of luck with everything. [00:57:07] Speaker A: Thank you for being here. Appreciate it. You listener, viewer. Man, I choked myself out. Is it over here? Where is it? It's down. Click the bell. Subscribe, leave a comment or review and or rating if you're listening. Leaving comments on the podcast or leaving reviews really help. I don't know how Apple keeps these things a big, big secret, but I know that when people leave genuine comments and ratings on the podcast, we get a huge spike in listenership. All over the world. So if this has helped you at all or inspired you at all, please share. Because that really is. I just want to be helpful. That's what it is. Okay, major smash the likes by oh, keep it funky. That's weird. My sign off is keep it funky. It's important to me. Keep it funky. Do you want to say it? Get in front of my camera. [00:58:07] Speaker B: Keep it funky. That was a wrist roll. [00:58:11] Speaker A: I saw that as punctuation. Keep it funky. Exclamation mark. Get on the floor, hump. [00:58:19] Speaker B: Keep it funky. Don't keep it humpy. Keep it funky, not humpy. [00:58:24] Speaker A: This podcast was produced by me with the help of many big big love to our executive assistant and editor, Riley Higgins. Our communications manager is Ori Vajadares. Our music is by Max Winnie, logo and brand design by Brie ReIts, thumbnails and marketing by Fiona Small. You can make your tax deductible donations towards that move me. Thanks to our fiscal sponsor, the dance resource center, and also many thanks to you. I'm so glad you're here. And if you're digging the pod, please share it. Leave a review and rating. And if you want to coach with me and the many marvelous members of the words that move me community, visit wordsthmoveme.com. If you're simply curious to know more about me and the work I do outside of this podcast, visit.

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