185. Codie Wiggins: “I’ve auditioned less than ten times in my career.”

Hello. Hello. I'm Dana Wilson, and this is Words That Move Me. I move people. I choreograph movies, music videos and TV shows. I dance for pop stars. I coach some really awesome people. But what I truly love is to learn, share, and inspire clarity and confidence in my fellow movers and shakers. So if you are navigating a creative career or simply want to live a little more funky and free, then settle in, because this is for you. Hello, Rizz. And hello. Hello. I'm Dana. This is words that move me. I'm glad you're here. Really stoked, because today we're talking to a dear friend of mine, Codie Wiggins. I know Codie because we've danced together and toured together many times. We've shared many moves. But after this conversation, I would say that I have not shared enough moves or tours with this person. He's a delight. He's a remarkable talent. He's worked with Usher, Beyonce, Chris Brown, Ciara, obviously, Justin Timberlake, just to name a few. His talent is singular. He is one of a kind. Oh, and he has some incredible stories about booking gigs, specifically tours. I cannot wait to share. But first, let's do some wins. Today, I am celebrating. I'm working on a project where I'm choreographing some movement for stop motion animation. I love this kind of work. It lights me on fire. I live for this. And today I'm celebrating delivering a first pass, like a round one of a number, and I received no notes. First pass. Great pass. Pause for teachable moment here. No notes does not necessarily mean that it's good and you're good. Getting notes does not necessarily mean that it's bad and you're bad. And this is a collaborative field. I'm trying to remember this. There will be notes most of the time. Most of the time. But for time's sake, today I'm celebrating no notes and moving forward onto the next number. Stoked about that. That's me. Now you go. What's going well in your world? Wins Music Okay, my friend. Congratulations. Keep winning. I'm celebrating. You so, so strong. Okay, let's do this. Codie Wiggins, man. The best stories about booking work that I've ever heard, period. So settle in and enjoy the one and only Codie Wiggins. My face hurts already. I know. I'm really excited. Thank you for being here. Codie, thanks for being here. We've known each other for a very long time, but on one hand, I can count the times that we've sat down and talked shop. Just us with a room full of cameras and people. So thank you again for being here. Tradition. On the podcast, you introduce yourself. Tell us everything you want us to know about you. Okay. It all started on October morning. I'm joking. But wait, really, truly, when is your birthday? October thirtieth. Okay. Day before Halloween. Warm up. Okay. Scorpio. Okay. I don't know much about that. I almost got kicked out of a birthday party once for saying I don't really believe in astrology, and everybody's like, it was not the move. So I'm cool with it. It's fine. Same, but okay. Scorpio, carry on. I am from North Carolina, by the way, of Georgia. I was born in Georgia, started my dance career around the age of eighteen. It's like two thousand and six. And have been able to run across many of stages with your artist's, favorite artist and some of your recent favorite artists, I would imagine. Yeah. Care to list? Yeah. Let's try Justin Timberlake. I was there for that. Usher. Chris Brown. Jason Derulo. I've worked with Nicki Minaj. Nicki Minaj, beyonce once, which was very quick exchange. So I can't really say I was there, but I was there. It's interesting. I've worked with Beyonce nuns. That's more than me. Good job. No stress. Film. Crossed over a little bit. Wait for it. There's one more that I have to mention because we share on this one as well. The Backstreet Boys. Oh, man. Yes. First Vegas residency cycle. Indeed. What? Backstreet's back, baby. All right. Okay. I'm not trying to get you into any trouble right now, and I will let you finish, but who's a better boy band in sync or Backstreet Boys? Okay, so I love questions like this because they're two different. One is more R and B, and the other one is more like pop. R and B. Backstreet Boys tailored themselves after boys to men, for sure. And that time period, early nineties, was more like, I love you. Make love. Whole nine. Yes. Whereas NSYNC was more like Y, two K, more up to date, more pop, more upbeat. Make the girl scream. Because I look good. No offense to you fellas. You're handsome. Okay. But I think for me, it's even split fifty fifty. That's how you dodge a question, ladies and gentlemen. Right there. Okay, back to film. Go. I was able to cross over into working on a few films as an assisting and associate choreographer, depending on the film pitch Perfect One. I had a scene where I performed and kind of assisted the scene. Aakomon Jones is the head choreographer. Creative. Pitch perfect. Two same thing. I got to be there for the whole process with himself and Binkie. If you don't know who Binkie is, research. Oh, my God. Have to have Binkie on the podcast. I will connect AJ. On the podcast. You already got him. Yikes. Indeed. Okay. Carry on. Alvin and the chipmunks. I forget the extended title to that, but it was with Rich and Tone, who were the head choreographers for that film get On Up, which was the James Brown biopic. Done a TLC movie. Done a new edition movie. Done the Bobby Brown film. Is that your preferred mode or medium of work? Do you love doing that? I just think that's where God, the higher power, has placed me. I really have no hold to any genre of entertainment like I've been able to touch. I would say every surface, almost, except for country. I think country music is the only space that I haven't been able to fully exist yet. I've done things in the Latin community. I've done things, of course, in the hip hop. I've done things super pop. I've been in the slums of artist development, working with actors to become artists, just kind of every range that you could kind of, I guess, think of, I would imagine. Is there one that lights you up more than another? Oh, man. I mean, you did just call it what did you call it? The grunges or the gutters of artist development? Is that not your favorite? Well, artist development. Oh, man. I do enjoy artist development, but it. Can be slow and sometimes the payoff is certainly less immediate. one thousand %. But that process to collaborate with someone if they're open and when you find that in a person, it can be very rewarding. But then sometimes you kind of flip the bill and it's like, all right, well, I just paid this and we're going to move forward to the next one. Investments, sometimes they return, sometimes they but that's self growth. I think that the process is self growing. Like, you understand a lot of mediums for the challenges that you meet and the barriers you have to jump over in those spaces to be a problem solver. Depending on if you want to go a creative direction route or just a directing route, or to produce all of these small or what some people may call small jobs or the lower end jobs, which they are not. They're all promotive for the next level, the upper echelon, if you want to put it that way. Put it that way. No one can do much alone. So many moving pieces of this entertainment business that we get to do and that I've been so lucky to get to do at least part of with you. But let's not jump quite there. I want to do a little retrograde because you just said that you started dancing when you were eighteen and I don't think I ever knew that. And that's relatively late to three. Yes. Daycare at that point. Let's be real. But what was your Meat Cute with dance? Like, how did you find it? What did that look like? Well, my dad has always been into funk music. Come on. Okay. See, keep going. No. What's up? I'm like my dad was into the Beatles, which isn't bad, but that's still. Funk music to me. Well, it's a little spacey. It got there. They got to a place. But it started like rock and roll. Rock and roll, but very pop. I mean, hook. I mean, not even verse. Like starts with a hook, verse, hook, verse, hook. The end or double hook at the end is like very much a recipe. But my dad's favorite beatle, I think, is Paul. And a lot of Paul's music is kind of like, I get you. And funk music is so you can tell by how you move what kind of music you're and for us, it was like we were kind of this household. Wait, the California had to be bigger. I didn't find funk until I was, like, an adult here, living in LA. It was just taking a nap inside of you. It hit this news for eighteen/nineteen years. Yeah. Wait, really? Well, yeah, I mean, I moved here when I was , and I was assisting Marty all the time, and Marty introduced me to Tony Basil. And she and I did a trade swap. I helped her with his material, specifically his musicality, which she could not I remember a neo combo that he did once that I had to put on at half speed for her. And she has a tempo control thing at her place that doesn't correct for pitch. So we're dancing neo, but she needed to hear, like and she needed to hear all the little bits, so I helped her with Marty stuff in exchange, she taught me locking, and then I started taking more locking class. Suga Pop, Lockadelic was teaching at Millennium at the time, and that is when I literally I don't think I really had it before then. I had some technique and a lot of diversity in terms of styles, but yeah, the actual feeling of funk I didn't have until later. I'm a thing. But your dad was into funk. We're back. Yes. So my dad was into funk music, like, super heavy, but my mother is very much so religious. Okay. And there was no secular music. And the fact that I'm saying secular lets you know how there's no other music in the house. Oh, it was nothing. Done. And if it wasn't that instrumentals, not to say jazz of sorts, not to say, like, classical music, but no words or gospel music done. Well, it could be worse, man. Very much music is oh, it's amazing. Oh, my goodness. What? My voice. Okay. I don't just sing, ladies and gentlemen. I mean, I don't just dance. I meant to put that the other way. You get what I meant. I don't really do it for real. I used to you can't really come. On a podcast and say that you don't just sing, I mean, dance and then not give us something. Also a smoker at this point, you. Might need, like, a full warm up. It's been years since I really sang, though, like, a long time. Sorry, dad. Funk music. How did you find dance, then? So I played sports, but I've always had music around, like, even though in the house, we couldn't listen to secular music outside the house. My dad in the car. I was with my dad all the time. And my cousins, a lot of my cousins in North Carolina, I would spend a lot of time with them just based on based on, like, my mom had three businesses and my dad drove trucks. So if I wasn't at home, I was on my bike around the neighborhood. But there's music everywhere. I'm primetime, like ninety s oh, yeah, primetime like ninety six to two thousand, you know what I'm saying? So in that you have MTV, VH, one Bet and I'm Enticed, and you're. Watching music videos all the time. All the time. Top ten get home right out of school. But I'm practicing and like, mimicking what I see. And I had some cousins of mine, set of twins out of North Carolina, antoinette Anthony. They introduced me to the movie Breaking. Even though my dad record underneath Prince right there. Kid you Not That's wild and on vinyl, dude, it's really nice. Chris, I'm really, actually a little crackly. Okay, on your way out, that's what we'll pay. Okay? Please, I promise I will stop interrupting you. No, it's cool. We haven't had a chance to do this often. Like you said less than five times. Okay, we got a lot to catch up. So they introduced me to that movie and my dad would be around the house, like gliding and waving just randomly with my mom. Okay. Pop. Right? My mom, she has like, this she didn't always just listen to gospel music, but she has like a funky bounce. Her mashed potato is oh, I can see it. I bet it is. That's the only thing she'll do is the mashed potato. That is the only thing she'll give you like a side groove, but she'll give you like that's it. But my dad is waves and pops. As old school as it is, just enthusiasm, like a high level of it. So that's where I get it from. So basketball practice to baseball practice to track practice to football, anything sports. I'm getting in trouble because I'm add, like I'm like, all right, I know the play, or I know what's coming up next. La la in school. Do all my schoolwork and be at my desk. Like, what am I doing? Get sent to the principal's office for interrupting class, whatever. So it was just in me, I guess. And then my junior year of high school, parents got a divorce. They are remarried, that's another story. Wow. After thirty years. But my parents got a divorce and when they split, we moved. I was battling in North Carolina at the time. I was like fifteen or so when I really started to understand that I could dance. And we would go with radio stations from county to county at their block parties and perform or do local talent shows or talent shows at school. And I was the best dancer in my grade. So anytime we had like, pep rallies, people are pushing me out. So in that I was battling quite heavily that last year before I moved from North Carolina to Atlanta. And when I got to Atlanta, a guy in North Carolina had just moved from Atlanta, and he was telling me about a few things that I could do when I got to the city, and I actually went and did them. Got with this church to do some summer camp with these kids as a coach. And there was a guy that he introduced me to. He said he'll take you where everybody dances. And I said, all right, cool. Ended up going into this broken down nightclub called the Aquarium or The Atrium. The aquarium if I'm not mistaken. It's not open. It's a gutted pool. It's torn to bits. But they are playing crank music, like fast tempo, kind of like how Miami has their bounce music, their style of music. Ours is very similar. Our movement is very similar without the booty popping. Ours is more intricate, footwork and, like, arms. And we're battling without speaking, obviously. And I learned that style my senior year of high school, which is then translated into my first audition for Stomp the Yard. When I snuck into that audition, that was my first audition. Went from there, got some network in that space. And that's a whole other story, because you booked it. I did, but I actually got kicked, so okay, I'll tell you. Side story. Cindy and Steff were the agents at Block South when Block was there. And I used to intern as a movement coach at this place called the Artist Factory. So it's my first time in the city. Like, I'm just like, I can dance whatever. I got the dance. I got the dance. Yeah. So I go into these spaces, and they had the audition there, but they didn't know I worked there. Okay. At this point, I'm living by myself, so I'm a senior in high school. I had my own apartment, own car. My mother went back to Eastman, where I was born, and I was just running the city, trying to figure out ways that I could keep my rent paid for sure. And then I got the internship while getting paid to clean. And they had the audition there in the back door. Cindy and Steff are letting people in, but it's a private call. So you got Dave Chappelle. What? That was perfect. But Dave Scott is head. Chuck wasn't there. I believe the director and a few producers were there. You have myself, Chase Benz. Chase Benz ended up being my partner in that movie. Fantastic. Good bookend, you know what I'm saying? But I battled everybody in the room. I battled a semicircle. One guy was from Chicago. If you crash auditions, that's what all the time, you have to battle everyone. Put your badge up, baby. But I ended up going through that back door. I wasn't allowed in. And since I was an intern, I knew the assistant working at the front desk that day. So when they said, no, you can't come in. You don't have an agent. It's for agency only. I said, I don't even know what that is. Cool. Whatever. The agency is great. I'll see you all in a second. I go outside and go around the other side in the front. And my homegirl, she was like, oh, yeah, they're doing an audition in the back. You can just go back there and wait in the lunchroom or our cafeteria of sorts. And I snuck in there and I sat for, like, ten minutes, and I came outside and I came out, like, dancing. Like, okay, if I just hit a couple of steps, then they're just going to let me come in the room because it's traffic everywhere. So I literally come out of the snack room and I'm like, playing around with my hands. And Ne-Yo is in the hallway. The singer Ne-Yo? Yes. I'm moving my fingers like this, and he looks at me, he's like, yo, show me how to do that. Like, that's fresh. How do you do that? And I showed him real quick, while I'm showing him, he's walking me into the Callback studio because there's two studios. Oh, my God. And I'm like, okay. Yep. I'm about to get in here. We're gonna go crazy. Oh, my God. Dave Scott walks as well. And he's like, oh, have you auditioned yet? You're supposed to be in this room. I was like, okay, you did exactly the thing. You're like, if I look like a dancer, they'll put me where the dancers go. Especially if you look like a really sick dancer. Oh, I looked horrible. No, you looked fantastic because you can fucking dance. Thanks. I mean, that was cool, but the gear. I want to see it so bad. The same beanies that I wear all the time. Yes, I had that on longer hair. Okay. I had on a big T shirt. You've seen the new Victoria Monet music video? That's how I looked. Big white T shirt, Jabot jeans and FILAS, which are forever. I love Atlanta sneakers. If you don't know, did not know that's our acronym in the city for that. Is that what it really is? It's not but forever. I love Atlanta. You got me. You got me. Dang it. Okay, carry on. I'm wrapped, by the way. This is a fantastic story. I have a few of these actually. Like, that's why I say I don't have a podcast. I want to talk to you about it. Let's go. Okay. I will tell you everything I know. Please and thank you. Oh, my God, this is wonderful. I'm crying. My face hurts. Carry on. Okay, so Dave Scott's like, you should be in there. And then he takes me across the hallway meanwhile at the same time so. You're like, sorry, Ne-Yo, I'll teach you finger waving another time. Yeah, pretty much. He's like finger wave. That's the hairdo. What do you call this? It is very much like, that sounds right. And then I was like, no, that's not right. What is it called? At the time, fingertip was really big Fingertip. Okay. It's a wave. I'm going to put them down. But to go from that into all of these, your knuckles are extremely I isolate. Like, I had to learn. Isolation is bananas. But I mean, like, the range of motion in your finger. Oh, yeah, it's timing. It's timing, but it's also I'm basically. Just going, like it's coordinate. You know what it is. He's fantastic. That's what it is. Thanks. I get it from Dana trust when I tell you I've studied you for a very long time, even before we met. That's another thing that kind of, like, I think has helped transition me being or helped translate my athleticism into rhythmic movement, like, to become the dance artist. I've always been a movement artist because of athleticism sports. Right. But in this case, i.e. the audition and we'll get back to well, I'll mix it in. Right. Once we get in the room, I adapt quickly, or I've been able to. So a lot of you're a good. Study, but a quick study. Yeah, because I grew up in a daycare setting. So having the attention of your parents, not to say that it wasn't there, it was quick, it's very minimal. So it's like, I love you, I'll take care of you, I'm going to feed you. But go in the room and tell them that I said to be quiet. And I'm like, okay, I'm a manager. Okay, great. I'll take the leadership role. I have no issue. Wow. So that's where I kind of got the wolf pack mentality lead from the back. I have to be observant of everything so I can figure out where I can put myself to help. So that's where this sneaking into the audition thing came in. Right. So we get here, Dave's like, all right, cool. Stand here. He puts me on this little stage, and I'm looking at the other six or seven people on this small stage in front of these producers and director, and he gives me St. Louis, which is the city, of course. And he says, you're going to dance like you're from St. Louis. And in my head, I'm like, I don't know any St. Louis dances besides the chicken head at the time or the mono. So it turns out you knew, like, four or know I was like, all. Right, let me and I said, okay. That'S gonna be easy. In my head, he gives chase. I think la. He gave a friend of mine after the fact, her name's Shan and Antoinette Crank from Atlanta, which I knew the. Style, and I was like, I got the wrong city. I was like, dermot. And then he gave this guy named Lucky from Chicago. Chicago footwork, obviously. So they all go first, and then I go, but I'mimicking them. And then I do my thing, and then I start going into each person's face because at this time period, I'm. Battle like, Right, that was your training. First introduction to dance expression. If you want it, I got it. Like, come get some. I don't care who it is. So Dave could have got it. And even when we got on set, Dave put me up against Choppa. Do you remember him? Yes. One of the goats. Oh, my gosh. His animation, I would be terrified. I would sit down. What? I was trying to go crazy on him on set, but Dave was like, yeah, get him. And John Silver is sitting there laughing like, it's a few guys that I met on that gig. Even though I only did one scene, I was there for two weeks. A week and a half, two weeks. And at that moment in the audition went through all those changes. Dave comes in and he puts his arm around me. He's like, all right, cool. I'm going to make sure that your agency calls me so that we can get you set up. And you were like, the agency, right. That thing that I don't know or have. As soon as he's saying that, it's just timing, right in this space. As soon as he says that, Cindy and F come by the door. It was like, you you weren't supposed to be in there. And Dave's like, oh, no, he's cool. And I'm like, okay. I'm cool. He said, yeah, just get him, right? We're going to talk. And then a week later, they called me and was like, hey, so we have an audition for Block. Do you know what that is? No. Well, you booked this movie, so you need representation. And I said, okay. And I was like, all right, whatever that is. I'm seventeen at the time. This is before my eighteenth birthday. And you're still in high school? Yeah, I haven't graduated yet. I have probably, like, three months left. Amazing. The conversation kind of went, you booked a movie. We have an audition in a week. I said, okay, wherever it is, here's the address. Meet us at audition in a week. You booked the movie. You have to audition.? Well, I had to audition for Block. This is when Block came to Atlanta. Block south. Sorry. It doesn't always happen that you have a feature film and need to audition. What the hell? Very true. I mean, I didn't understand the dynamics that were going on. I guess they wanted to just see. Whatever Dave Scott saw wasn't enough. Okay, carry on. I didn't know who any I knew Dave from You Got Served. I was like, you're the dude with the red tracksuit. Exactly. That's it. That's all I knew. And you're tallest shit and the perfect smile, man. What? Whoa. Will light up a universe. Whoa. For sure. We should have him come here and light the podcast, please. Thank you. What? I mean, this is mean. Obviously, he should be on the podcast, but I'm like, this lamp with all available lumens wouldn't stand a chance next to him. Not at all. Not at all. His skin we could talk about Dave for time. Okay. His skin is podcast where we just compliment Dave Scott and his attributes. Side note I hope that he's good now. I do too. I'm going to reach. Thank you for bringing this up. This is important. Yeah, he's important. Whoa. Career change for so many people I know as a leader and as a person who's stepping on into the next phase of their creative life, as a choreographer, as an instructor, being able to make opportunities available to other people the way that people have for us lights me on fire. That is the and it's people like that who have done that for so many people that make that look cool to do, like, makes me want it. We are privileged. We are blessed, man. This is where the study habits come into play, I would say. My story, even though we haven't delved too deep in detail wise, yet my story is rare, I imagine, because I hear the run of my peers at a time period. And for some of the youth now, mine was not the same. All of these situations, this one specifically I'm talking about now, it just has happened seamlessly. Almost even me booking each tour I've been on, I've only been on two tours, like titled tours, three, if you include Pink Print. But I didn't have to audition. Thankfully, I was brought in days before our first performance, late to most of these opportunities to where I would have to learn numbers in two days. Three days. So if you include Justin Pink Print two and Chris Brown's party tour, those are the only three tours that I've done that I was there from start to finish. Other than that, me getting with Usher or me being with Jason Derulo, I've had to learn as we went or learned right before. And you think that that's highly unusual? I don't think that's unusual. What are the ways that your career has been so different than everyone else's? I've done less than ten auditions in my whole career, and I've been in this industry for years plus. Yeah, I've only done less than ten. Okay. And that's because a mentor of mine, Aljamaal Jones, was friends with Devine Stevens, Aakomon Jones, Jamaica Craft and a few others. And put your name in the hat. He literally took me out of the Artist factory and a club. So I was dancing at a nightclub, doing the snap movement time period to get the party going. And he came to a club one night and he was promoting Keri Hilson at the time. And I didn't know who she was yet because she hadn't come out. She was just writing. And at the end of that, he kind of, like, brushed up against me and told me, like, oh, you get. Busy. I'm going to see you. I'm like, okay. I don't know who the fuck this guy is. Whatever. Literally. Maybe a week or two later, I'm at the Artist Factory. He walks in. He's becoming an A R, and he knows the network at the Artist Factory. He pulls me aside. I want you to meet me at this studio in a couple of days. I'm working at Dunkin'Donuts in this fucking music spot. So I'm like, all right, whatever, dude. I got two months left. I gotta take these EOCs. I gotta take these tests so I can graduate. I'm not concerned with anything but this check. Let me get it. He says, well, just rock with me. Trust me, you want to meet me. I said okay. Meet him at the complex, which is Divine Stevens studio in Atlanta. It's not open anymore, but at the time, walk in and no. He takes me to the Artist Factory, and he introduces me to Jamaica Craft first. I walk in the room. It's Vic Damone. Like Vic. Vic Carter. Brittany Perry. Russell. Rio Henderson is in there also. And I forget who else, but I don't see who's behind the wall necessarily. I see Jamaica. And I didn't know who she was at the time, but Aljamaal looks at me with the seriousness that I've never felt from any other human at the time. He goes, when the music comes on, you dance. No matter what, you dance, and you go crazy. I said all right. And at the time, battle mentality. Whoever wants it at any point in the day, I don't care if we're at the grocery store, you can get these rounds. She looks at me, Jamaica, and she goes, click. Turns the music on. It's I PROCEED by Ciara, and I know the song because the album had just dropped. We're getting crazy in high school with these songs and such, right? As soon as I start dancing, I see a head pop from behind a pillar. And it'Ciara and I'm like, what the yeah, you're right. That's atypical. That doesn't happen more than once. It happened more than once. That's the first time, Codie! A month later, less than a month later, me and Aljamaal are talking like every other day. I'm still interning at the artist factory. He's coming up. I'm seeing in the Artist that he's bringing in. He's just talking to me. He'll take me into the snack room and just talk to me. I'm like, okay. I guess this guy is cool. I'm in Atlanta by myself, granted. He says, okay, I got another one for you. He's like, you know who you need to be dancing for? Then we go to the complex. This is the second time this happened three times. Second time, get to the complex. Jamaica's not there this time. She comes in later, but it's me and him. He goes, all right. Again, when the song comes on, go crazy. I said, all right, cool. There's a woman sitting in the corner. She has on a hood and her head is down. She has on a baseball cap, so I can't see anything but, like, her lips. And I'm like, all right, whoever. And she's not paying attention to me, so I'm getting kind of agitated where I'm like, say hello, I'm southern. So, like, hello, yeah. Like, good morning. Yes. He goes, looks at me, click. I know the song. Because on the underground of Atlanta, Keri started to bubble, and a lot of R B artists who were crossing over into pop like herself at that time period, the dance community started to kind of gravitate toward a lot of what that sound was. And we knew the songs in the studio, so I'm freestyling. Like, I know the words, so I'm going nuts. And she looks up and I was like, oh, shit, it's Keri. Hilson. I'm like, what in the world, man? What did is happening to me? And I'm doing stuff on the floor, playing around. And then he stops the music, like, you know, you need to be dancing for I was like, who? He was like, Usher. I said, if you can make that happen, they can pay me fifty dollars a day and I'll be good to go. Not knowing anything, he looks at me, he says, you will never effing say that again. Yeah, good call. I'm glad he said. I was like, fifty dollars a day is not a thing that anybody should do at all, ever. Not today, not yesterday, not moving forward. If you do it, you suck. Sorry. I'm joking. We're going to send you some links so that you can not suck. Some references, indeed, general guidelines and daily minimums that will help you not suck, says the guru. Live a life that and live a life that doesn't suck. Also. Yes. And I'm aggressive. So that came off very aggressively. Not aggressive. We can say direct. Yes, very much direct. Okay, Keri. So the third time, after I did the Keri thing and he says the Usher comment, I said, all right, cool. You set it up. Whatever. Again, I'm not very trusting, so I'm. Like, this isn't going to happen. It's whatever. Exactly. Go back to Dunkin'Donuts. Eating sour cream donuts, having a good old time. Delicious. Okay. And about a month later, we go to JPat, which is Usher's mom's studio and his studio. I don't know this at the time, but JPat is a very prestigious music studio, like Camp, where they take artists and they build them just like the artist factory. But it was Usher and his mom's establishment. I've never heard of this ever before. Atlanta cult classic moves like around the city, like, that city will grow you up. Love it. Snore score wrist roll’s asleep. That was deep. Yeah, it was. Carry on. Pull up to the spot. It's very much so, like, private. So you have to go through a few things to get to the dance studio. Get in there, he says. When we go inside, just chill. Said, all right. Walk up to the front door. AJ. Is in the corner of the room, and he's sitting on the floor. No hair, has glasses. I remember smooth as hell. Okay. Sitting there already smooth. I remember his face from an Aliyah video, and I kind of like and Aljamaal puts his hand on my shoulder, and I kind of look at him. He was like, chill. Okay. He caught you quick. Oh, my God. AJ. Gets up. He walks across the room. He floated across. He levitated. He's putting out sage on his hand. What? That's hot. He is the smoothest guy. Butter gets it from him. Chuck Norris gets Chuck Norris from AJ. Okay. Sorry. Okay. So he floats over. Floats over, is putting out sage on his hand, holds the sage, and he goes, Hi, I'm AJ. What's your name? Say my name. He takes a CD out of his pocket, and he goes, I want you to go in this studio across the room and choreograph a hook to the song on track seven. No, it's track six. Because I remember him saying, if I hear track five or seven, I'm going to ask you to leave. And I'm like, okay, it's your shit. Whatever you want. He's like, I'm glad you know that. I was like, cool. Why is everybody talking to me like I'm some kid right now? I'm an adult. I understand what's going on. I'm eighteen. You are? Fully. Yeah, I'm a kid. I'm, like, nineteen at this point. Almost twenty, I think, now. Okay. Because I've been dealing with Aljamaal for about a year or so. Okay, so some time has gone by. Yeah. But these moments I'm developing with him, like, I'm just making relationships, right? And as soon as he says that, I hear somebody in the corner go laughing. It's usher behind the freaking cackling, but behind the speaker, he comes out. He's like, hey, what's going on? Aljamaal puts that hand on my shoulder again. I look up. Yeah, we're good. We're good. AJ. Is like, all right, cool. You all met. Go into that room. I'll see you in a second. He's developing him for the Here I Stand album, and I think this is his first time creatively directing with that camp. Yeah. So it takes me ten minutes to put the piece together because I'm in my bag already, and moves just fall out quickly. You plus that music is easy. It's nothing. Yeah, it's what's your name? With Will. I Am. And I'm freaking out anyway, because I hear Will on the song, and some of the this is actually funny from the Rock Your Body music video. I use that in the choreography because. I didn't I'm dying right now because we finally have a video format podcast. So we'll add a little timecode in that music video so that if you're listening on audio only, that you know what we're talking about. But carry on. Carry on. So I had fused at the time period a bunch of these moves and moments from music videos that I had been studying, and I finished in, like, ten or fifteen minutes, and I opened the door, and I just crossed my legs, and I'm sitting outside the door, and AJ's at the mic stand with us. And then Aljamaal is on his phone across the room. Aljamaal looks at me. He's like, what are you doing? I was like, I'm done. And AJ's. Kind of looking at me over his shoulder repeatedly, and I guess I'm not getting it. I'm like, I'm not going back in this room. I'm in here by myself. I don't care. I want to know what's going on. Out. Yeah. Yeah. This is better than yeah. This is better than yeah. So AJ. Looks over. He's like you. Good. I was like, yeah, I'm done. He gives one of these, and he looks at us, and us was like, exactly. And Aljamaal was like, I got it. And he walks across the room. He was like, all right, cool. Let me see it. Turn the music on. I perform it for him. He tilts his head. And then he was like, one second. Walks out the room, comes back in. He was like, Let me see it one more time. Did it again. Tilts his head, walks out the room. AJ. Comes in, looks at it, tilts his head, walks out the room. Usher comes in, looks at it. Do it again. Do it again. I did it probably four times for him. Tilts his head, walks out the room. I was in there for minutes after that. By yourself? Yes. And I'm like, what in the hell is going just wondering, like, did I was it bad? I don't know. What's happening? What is this punishment I'm receiving right now? What is it? So I play the song again, and I'm just kind of freestyling. Whatever. And then all three come in the room, and they said, all right, cool. AJ. Says, all right, cool. He said, Let me see it one more time. He said, all right, Bet, let's take this out. Let's take this out. And then add this. He takes this out because, of course, he takes one other move that I got from a Ciara video out, and then he replaced it with some of his speed. And then he's like, all right, cool. I'll see you tomorrow. That is a supervising choreographer for you. one thousand %, a curator, a chemist, one thousand, and amazing at it. I learned so much from those experiences. Right? That's huge. And then you went on to work with AJ for ten years. Yeah, for a decade. At that point, he developed me. I was just freestyling, and I could choreograph because Aljamaal was teaching me how to structure movement, and I had never been on a stage, really. Like, I've been on some hood stages in the neighborhood, been on some stages with a few local artists. Just, like, randomly doing things. After getting that structure from Aljamaal, working with the Keri and working with Aloyd and working with a Ciara at a time period. Just development, like, not really putting too many steps. I did help choreograph Jamaica with Keri on her first project, amongst a few others, because she's another person that is a great curator of Jamaica. A picture. Oh, it's incredible. So amazing. And at that point, I was working with Jamaica and AJ quite consistently for maybe two years between the two of them. And then at one point, Jamaica kind of looks at me and she's like, you should go over there and stay over there for a little while. Not in a bad way. She's just like, I'm going to have you also. But he has quite the effect on you. I think you should stay over. Yeah. And I naturally move very similar, surprisingly. How would you explain it to people who are listening, who might not be dancers? How would you explain your style of movement? I am groovy. I am very sharp and strong. I'm very swift. Very I would say I'm a kaleidoscope with a groove, if that makes sense. So I make shapes for stage, for camera, if you will. But more stage movement as far as being big. Yes. Huge scale arms. How tall are you? I feel like people ask men that question the way that people ask women how old you are. I lie about it, to be very honest. I know exactly. I also tell people that I'm twenty. Okay. When I tell you I am also. But you dance like you're six, four, one thousand. I think the energy is that as well. I am five seven on a good day. But we are great partners. We look like yeah. Listen, I don't think there's a wrong height to be a dancer. If you get off, you get off for anyone. Yeah. If you get off, you get off. I was going to say, if you get down, you get down. Okay. So your style, scale wise, I see what you're saying in that it would do well for stage. But I would add the only thing that you haven't said yet is this tremendous effortlessness. I think probably because you're such an athlete, the things that you are doing that look hard. If other people did them, I would say, oh, that looks hard. But the way that you do them makes them look very easy. You have a very effortless, seamless, smooth thing that's really fun to watch. I really love it very much. Thanks. I don't know where that well, I do know where it comes from. Certainly AJ didn't hurt that. No, he enhanced it. Because that time where the choreography moment happened, it was for this NFL performance that he did with Rio and Vic. I didn't get to go because I'm too short. And at the time I had long hair and I probably weighed a buck twenty wet. Okay. No facial hair. Just a baby. Yeah, I've been used to get that a lot, man. And he's tall, so I can only imagine. Ivo, you look great, man. You got a little weight on you now. I got a little muscle. I see you. Daddy coming. Literal father. Literal father. Crazy. I'm trying to have all three of. Them on the podcast and it's going. To be a nala d and Ivo, come on. That sounds like I'm going to need more mugs. I'm going to need a little words that move me baby bottle. What? We might need a sippy or a. Cup of straw by then. Yeah, come on. She's pulling through a straw. Get the hell out of here. She's a full on moving human. She's no longer seen the movement facts. Excuse me. Carrot taking in the room. Yes. Directing. Fully directing. Like it's. That finger incredible. Oh, there. You should teach her how to finger wave soon. Coming. I said it wrong on purpose. No, it's coming is real. Thank you. Okay. I'm seeing the lay of the land. This is fascinating, your story. You must have a podcast. I'm sorry, I would love to. You have to do this. I will help you in all the ways. You can just come over and hijack mine for a little while. I will definitely take you up on that. Don't get it twisted. I have a quick round of questions that I want to make sure that we get to because they're arbitrary and sometimes interesting shit comes out of that. Are you prepared? I think so. Okay, we're calling this section roll with it. Okay. Exactly. Wrist roll with it. You picked up on that. Very keen. Very keen. Okay, so you are going on a tour. How many have you done? Now, you mentioned the three were the only ones that you had to audition for, but how many would you say you've toured it with? How many times? Well, I haven't had to audition for any. I just have only been on three titled sorry. Tour. Just three titled tours. No, you're good. That was not a stab. That was not a stab. It's like, no, I haven't auditioned for. Any of the oh, my God, I've been crying for an hour. Okay, you're going on another tour. You didn't have to audition. Don't worry. Okay, other than shoes, clothes and essentials. Yeah. Is there something that you bring that maybe people would not expect that you have to have with you on tour? Actually, no, because I open myself to the opportunity and the environment. Like, I try to understand where I am with the artist. What is it that I'm going to gain from this artist? Because I'm an artist, I don't feel that I'm a support. I think that we share the stage because my light is as bright as whoever I'm on the stage with, because I offer something to that space. So I think that the way that you're going to take from me or receive from me, I'm going to do the same. So, example, with Usher, I picked up a flavor palette, so I was more open to cuisine, more open to the opportunity of exploring a city to get food or wines or the bourbons or the whiskeys and all that refinement for a male to kind of gather, to have what I would say is an expensive time. And it helped me to change how I clothe myself also. So I think that's what I picked up on that tour. So you leave your house with nothing and you go on tour. And very much so. Terry. So Terry, who has been on the podcast Percussionist for JT, also original founding member of Rose Royce. So if you've ever worked at the car wash yet, that double clap is Terry fucking Santiel. He's so great and he is notorious for going on a full leg of tour with like a carry on. Blue jeans, black shirt, baby blue jeans, black shirt. And he has the essentials only. Okay, so you leave with minimal and you pick up as you go in terms of not only I love the way you answered this question, by the way, not only in terms of objects, but in terms of qualities and tastes and values and things like that. And I think that stems from the daycare environment, surprisingly, because you have to become a people person, not a people pleasing person. Because I'm me. I'm going to enjoy the opportunity, how it makes me most comfortable, not to make anyone else uncomfortable in the environment, but I have to be able to pick up your nuances so I understand how we can collaborate in this space. Yeah. Tour is a collaboration that is a. Family and you don't know the people before those moments necessarily. Like, you're literally getting thrown into a mixing bowl saying, you're going to be on the road for two years. This is your new family. You're welcome. Okay. You stink. I got to deal with that. Yes, you do. You know what I mean? I love the way that you take this question. You're approaching it from the place of what qualities do I bring? What mindsets do I bring versus what objects do I bring? And I think it's true. When you're heading into a life event like a world tour, there is no object that's really going to save your life. There's no secret hack to crushing Tour. It does seem like a dream job from the outside, but you and I both know that it's extremely taxing and there's no such thing as a dream job. There will be a toll, a tax that you have to pay for everything as awesome as getting paid. Tour the world. Yes. Okay, next question. These are supposed to be rapid fire, by the way. Sorry. We'll get better. No, it's okay. Wrist roll with it. What would you say is your dance superpower? We've talked a lot about your scale, your smooth effort. This effortlessness, I love it. Favorite move, go quick. My faster signature backslide foot move. The one singular slide. You're going to have to do it. I'm sorry, I don't know what you're talking about. Yeah, so I plant one ft, whether it be right or left, and I glide behind it. I know the one. I know the one. Least favorite move. A move that you would just control alt delete from time. What's? The knee drop thing thread where you. Put your foot behind the thing and. You would drop from here. I can't do it. That great. You're going to smash it? Well, I'm probably out of print. Yes. I don't like that one. Wow. It's the only way I know how to get to the ground, so I do it. No, no, I like it, but I. Physically you would delete it for you. Look at you backslide. Okay. You're very good at questions, but I almost asked you. By the way, I'm going to ask, what's up? Who's a better dancer, JT or Usher? That's a hard one because it's just different. It's different because one's a gentleman and the other one used to be ladies. Man, they're both gentlemen for sure. I e twenty twenty when it comes to Justin. But you have the same nuance for caught up. My God. I like confessions with a gentleman's. Like, listen. It'S a hard pill. That's a hard pill. You can't really answer that question on air, but I got you after you. Yeah, I got you after. So I think I also know your default freestyle move. Is it the same backside one or do you have a default freestyle go to? Freestyle go to? I would say it starts with right arm wave. Interesting. Or there's an illusion. Yeah, I'm the essence walking in the circle is what I kind of feel like it is. OOH, watch me essence. Exactly. Watch me essence on you. Mine is probably like a Rendezheon Potaboo Ray situation or spin it and a quick swift pirate come through. Quick swift lock. But also my time saver. This is my like, I'm killing time. Hey, but it's this on you as well. What is it? The joy of being able. That's my definite freestyle go to move. But, I mean, this is where my study habit of the individuals I've come across comes into play. I'm going to use you as back to that. You were studying me. Sorry, I took the rapid out of it's. Okay, let's do a clip insert here. Sorry, this is my podcast. Yeah, let's do a clip. Dana at Super Bowl, Crimea River. That essence your scowl. I was mad. I was acting. What dacting at its finest. Look out. I love acting. I've been in acting classes for years. It makes my dancing better. Come on. I've done two years acting. Because I've heard you say that. Yeah, in two thousand fourteen, maybe two thousand fifteen. We had never met, but I was outside of Millennium, and this is after a Marty's class. Okay. And I just kind of was ear hustling the environment. And you and Marty were having a moment, and I think there were a few students around, and I think someone might have asked your advice about this or asked Marty his advice, and you kind of gave your opinion, and it was like, well, you should get into an acting class or you should study more than dance. And I said, two years later, I was taking acting classes because of you and watching you in class because I wasn't dancing out here. Like, that too crazy. I just was coming to Millennium to watch. Interesting. Okay. So I did a lot of were you in clubs? Were you freestyling? Were you just not here? Not in La. Okay. Like La. I got here when I was twenty seven,, but at that time period, I had only been here twice. One was for a Chris Brown audition because we were in Stomp the Yard, and they said if you were in the movie, you'll get the job. Too short. I was too short. And Rich and Tone didn't know me. And Chuck actually took maldonado. Yeah, Chuck Maldonado actually took the initiative to come to me personally because I flew in town from Atlanta, had no money, came in, was staying at a Super Eight. They took my clothes at the Super Eight, and they locked me out of my hotel. So I literally slept on misha Gabriel and Nick Basses couch for a day. They didn't know me. Chase introduced me. So this is like these moments. All of this stuff, like, symmetrically started happening around the same time. And like I said, it's the higher power saying that you're supposed to be doing this in whatever facet of the entertainment industry you want to exist in. You will, and you're going to meet people who are going to take care of you along the way. Good people taking care of good people with talent. Man one thousand %. So backtracking to you and that scowl of yours. The additive to your freestyle is the joy of being a movement artist and the unapologetic presentation of that. A lot of people don't possess that button. Press in a moment. The performance thing. Quick. We call it stage presence here. And actually, my acting teacher, who is also a podcast guest, I will link to his episode, which is fan freaking tastic. He explains stage presence simply as the amount of interest you have in what you are doing, how interested are you in what you are doing? And I'm very interested, very interested in what I'm doing. And the joy part, for me, honestly, comes very naturally, especially when dancing it's actively hard for me. And, actually. Crimea river. It's funny that that was your reference point. Not natural for me to dance from a dark place or from anger or from friction, even. It's not very natural. But Marty's moves now by this point, are very natural for me. So doing Crimea River plus an unnatural emotional state of dance was kind of natural. It made very much sense. But you embraced the move. That was exactly and how do you not I mean, come on. That band, that moment, those moves. And that guy Justin is what you said earlier about being a person who shines. Justin is a star who shares shine. And it is very rare to feel quite so forward when you are a backup dancer. really puts people and talent forward. And that is why you are there, because you are wildly talented. Holy hell. Thank you so much. Very welcome. And I've taken less than five Marty classes. I don't know why Marty I did not. That speaks volumes. Y'all yeah, that's what I'm saying. I have no idea why this is what's happening. But again, I'm very aware of moments. Sometimes we fall into the background and forget to be aware and be present. And I've had moments of that. But in these staple points in my career or in life, because I don't really call it the career. I think this is just the life that I'm living. I just am able to navigate in uncomfortable spaces and come out with whatever I feel. Me personally offers the space that we're standing in. And Marty's movement, for example, is very intricate, but I love instrumentation because I played drums for, like, six years. Yo. Why is all the drummers coming out of the woodwork right now? I used to think this is classic. I used to think, like, why aren't there more drummers that dance? Or why aren't there more women that lock? And the answer is, I just don't know who they're around. Oh, they fully exist. This is great. Carry on. You know. Is it Taya? Not Taya. Taya from Canada. She's nasty at locking. She doesn't do it as much anymore. She should. You should. Carlito Sienna's wife. Okay. Got it. Got it. She's amazing. Okay. Drumming. Yes. So stepping into Marty's world and yours with this movement, I knew that when I watched class that there are spaces to freestyle. Right. If you give me , that's a lot of time for me. That is a lot of time. Oh, yeah. You're going to fill that all the way up. And there are spaces in class where I couldn't fill it the way that I knew I could. So, of course I'm going to play off the people that are next to me in these spaces. I e Natalie Gilmore. So the second time I took Marty's class, he did a Prince song. You walk in. I woke up. Yes. Never seen a pretty good expected. What's the song called? You are a natural unaffected. I don't know. Oh, no. It's coming. I stand corrected. We're almost hooked. You got the look. Yes. You got the look. Body slamming. Your body slamming. I know it okay, carry on. I'm going to include sorry. There's a video on YouTube of me dancing. That the first time he taught it word, which is old millennium. I think I was in that class. Get out of here. I think it was me. You misha Gabriel. I'm wearing a who got skills shirt. Were you on blue sweatpants? Left side. Because Misha was in the center. You know, misha. He was in the center. I do, yes. And I think Marty might have jammed. Oh, my goodness. Yeah. So in that, there's a freestyle moment, three of them, if I'm not mistaken, and I was bouncing off of Natalie. But Natalie didn't know me dance wise that well yet. Nobody really did. And she didn't curse at me, but she cursed me. She was like, don't mess me up, Codie. Don't you mess me up. Hilarious. Because we've shared this moment with each other, of course. And in that space, I said, okay, I have to not do a flip here. I have to not go to the floor here because I don't have enough space to do it, and I don't. Want to mess with Natalie up. Exactly. But this is me going for that turn before that extension. Right before that is a freestyle moment. And I did HECA slamming, bing, bing, bing down her body. Nice. And she looked at me, and it kind of took her off a little. OOH. So, at that time period in class, people weren't really like doing should. I actually texted Marty about this combo not that long ago. He should bring it back. I would love to do it. We should do it. You can tap, tap, tap. What? I would love to. Dana, I just want to dance next to you. Let's go. I have no idea. I know. I'm so excited. Let's go. Are you around for a while? Yeah. I don't plan to go anywhere. Look, I could never plan, but back the following Monday. Let's dance. I really would love to. Please and thank you. I would love to more than anything. Love to do that. Okay. More than that. Oh, wait. This might answer our next rapid fire question. No. Sure. You get to do a duet with anybody, living or dead. Who is it? Dance or just create anything. Figure skating. Okay. Figure skating. It's so funny. Marty asked the same question. Oh, my God. Great answer. Yes. I would love to do that with Will Ferrell. Okay, great. I take it. If you were an animal, what animal would you be? Red panda. That is very specific. I thought you would be more of, like, a cat. Like a fast cat. Not really into cheetah or something. Oh, yeah, I could do that. Right. Really swift. Yeah, crazy swift. Swift. Swiss cheese. It's like swift with wrist roll. Yes. I take that. A swift. Okay, final question. Are you ready for it? I think so. What are the words that move you the most? The words that move me the most as far as making my blood boil let's go would be that. Doesn't it just work? It does. Let's go. But it has to be a specific moment. Okay, fair. I try to use it on wrist roll all the time. I'm like, let's go. Let's go. And you're right. It doesn't require a moment. It requires specific. And it depends. Yes, it depends. Let's try it. Rizz. Let's go. Let's go. Yes, sugar. Let's go. It was the ear. Let's go. Oh, there it is. So is it let's go? Is that what it is as far as getting the blood to boil? But then it's a thing of I listen to a lot of podcasts where it is to train the mind to understand how to illuminate. I am successful inside and out. I am creative inside and out. What is another one that I've been on recently? I'm attractive inside and out. Like, I am attractive, so therefore I attract. So these things inspire me to move forward and a little bit of doubt. I don't really need people to doubt me in order for me to exist. But if I can sense because my intuition is very strong, if I can sense that you are not in full belief that I can do something, then I have no choice but to show you. It's no other option. I love this I E audition. Okay. You can't come in here because you don't have an agent. I don't know what that is, but I'm still coming in here. Okay. It just depends on the situation. I think I have to arrive at it like I have to confidently be in a headspace where I'm like, all right, cool, whatever you think, because it's not up to you, and it's not up to me either. But whatever is happening right in here right now, I'm going to follow that. So that's what's happening inside and out. Inside becomes out. I think all the wonderful things that have been inside of you and gifted to you, you turned into very real, very tangible talent. Thank you. And awesome projects and awesome things, awesome moves that I cannot wait to share with you again sometime soon. We will do it Tuesday of two weeks from now. Tuesday? Two weeks. Are you going to come take class? You're teaching on Tuesday. I saw the clip of your class. Please. I don't know what we're going to do next Tuesday, but doesn't matter. I'm in there. Let's go. Oh, my God. I'm going to be a zombie. No, I didn't mean let's go. Sorry. That was misleading. That was confused. Big yawn. Yeah. I'm going to be a zombie, though. But I am going to be there. Why are you going to be a zombie? Well, I teach strength training because I am into fitness at the moment as well, but I have bigger plans for fitness and dance. Oh, this sounds like a Codie wiggins round, too. You know, we are going to be okay. I would love to. You're building something, you're creating something. And I would love to chop your ear off with this one as well. Van Gogh. Okay. I am gaining knowledge by teaching. Yeah. So I train a strength training class at a.m. Four times out of the week, and I do personal training every day as much as I can before noon. So I still have the rest of the day to dance. There's a podcast I was listening to a while ago, and if you join the A.m. Club, you have two days in one day. Yeah, she's up. five. A.m club, baby. Up. Ready to go. Oh, this is a lot to handle, isn't it? Okay, well, if you come take my class that day, I'll come work out with you that morning. Holler at me. We can get it. The Snore score is going way up over here. I'll give you a warm up because my workouts are it's strength training. I have a feel. Yeah. Rude. No, I want to see the meter. Here it comes. Okay, let's do that. I'm so down. I love cross training in general. It's really important to me. Comes up on the podcast all the time. But it's all for tour. No, well, I mean, for me, it's all for Tour. Oh, I see. I see. Life like routines. Okay. Yeah, you have to, because the show at that point isn't going to keep you strong. Dancing doesn't keep you strong at that point. You're doing the same moves. One hundred and fifty three shows. You actually must counter that with cross training because those moves that on a week basis might make you strong. It makes you strong at those moves, but start to deteriorate quickly. Yeah, quickly. Okay, Codie, let's talk athleticism and moves another time. We'll have you come back and we'll talk about this training business of yours. Thank you so much for putting my dog to sleep. That's not what I meant. No, it's not what I meant to say. But she's soothing, cozy right now. She is. Thank you for sharing these stories. You are fascinating. I cannot wait to be a weekly listener to your podcast. I can't wait for you to help me produce that so we can share. Tell me what you need. Anything. Everything. All of it. All of the things you can have. All of the things that we've learned and vice versa. Thank you. Always. Thank you. We cross paths for a reason. Yes. I can't wait till the next one. Same I thank you. Thank you. Malone thank you. Thank you guys all for being here as well. I really appreciate the very early this is just my second video format episode. Oh, congratulations. The other ones have been audio only. So thanks everybody, for listening, audio and video world and keep it funky. I'll talk to you soon. This podcast was produced by me with the help of many big, big love to our executive assistant and editor, Riley Higgins. Our communications manager is Ori Vajadares. Our music is by Max Winnie, logo and brand design by Brie Reetz thumbnails and marketing by Fiona Small. You can make your tax deductible donations towards that Move Me thanks to our fiscal sponsor, the Dance Resource Center, and also many thanks to you. I'm so glad you're here. And if you're digging the pod, please share it, leave a review and rating. And if you want to coach with me and the many marvelous members of the Words That Move Me community, visit wordsthetmoveme.com. If you're simply curious to know more about me and the work I do outside of this podcast, visit thedanawilson.com