Episode Transcript
Transcript:
Intro: Welcome to Words That Move Me, the podcast where movers and shakers, like you, get the information and inspiration you need to navigate your creative career with clarity and confidence. I am your host, Dana Wilson, and I move people. I am all about the tools and techniques that empower tomorrow's leaders to make the work of their dreams and live a full life while doing it. So whether you're new to the game or transitioning to your next echelon of greatness, you're in the right place.
Dana:So we will now commence a brief question and answer panel <laugh> with the filmmakers that will be turned into a bonus episode, for words, that move me because why work smarter? Not harder. <laugh> always be rolling. So I, I think I would like to start by allowing each of you to introduce yourselves and tell us anything you'd like us to know about you. It doesn't need to be resume bio related at all. You could simply explain your outfit tonight or, um, uh, any, any detail? I will put my microphone down here. Eric, do you still hi. Did I check it? Put it down. Oh, you put it down. Um, so pass it to you, mine. Okay. Me. Okay. MEISON short for Meyers related to Wilson. Yep.
Jillian::My name first name is Jillian and I'm the green one. That's all I got. <laugh>
Meg: There we go. Yeah. I'm Megan Lawson, the pink one also known as Maki or Carol, or you choose depending on the day. Uh, I am a fan of words that move me podcast and Dana Wilson. And I have to leave in 10 minutes. There you go. Okay.
Dana:So we'll have Jillian pop up in your chair. Yep. <laugh> great. I'm the blue one. Yeah. Um, and I'm still super stoked and sweaty that you guys are here.
Eric: I'm Eric I love Dana Wilson. Um, and I drive a car. Yes. And it's older than me.
Dana: Wow. Fun. Fast. That's a good one. That's awesome. Be careful.
Brandon: Um, my name is Brandon Mathis and I'm just really grateful to be here.
Dana: We're grateful to have you with and
Hok: Uh, hello everyone. My name is HOK. Uh, I didn't know that I was going to be sitting in front of everyone. So I should have looked a little bit more presentable. Sorry for this mess. Usually a lot cleaner, but hello?
Dana: Hi HOK. Thank you for being here. Wow. Uh, okay. We will be taking questions from the audience preferably about the works <laugh> But I have a podcast podcast host and I'm here for all of it. Um, so think about your questions. I'm gonna start it off with one of my favorite questions to ask everyone all the time. When we reflect on our work is what went well. And what would you do differently on behalf of the seaweed sisters? What do you guys think <laugh> I would, would offer up, always get a plate. Yeah, there we are. If you are a person who's interested in creating a ghost effect, right? Via transparency, you need a plate of everything, of everything, even things you don't think you need, get it, get it, just get it.
Dana:But I'll tell ya. If we had those plates, we wouldn't have added those delightful ghosties animation, which the animation by Danny Madden and this the sound. And I feel like that went really well because of the lack of plates <laugh> we had to come up with another solution and now it's a delight.
Dana: Yes, we got anything. We got it. You got it, Eric, what went well, what didn't go well for you and Charissa, who is not here by the way, but was the lovely curly redheaded wonder in the red pants?
Eric: Absolutely. Shout of her Charissa. Yeah. She's here in spirit. Honestly, a lot went well, I feel like it, it was pretty smooth. It felt like. Um, but I would say for any filmmakers who are interested in making a film, uh, get a DCP made
Dana: <laugh> right. F U D C P everybody. Yeah, I'm kidding. I don't wanna put thank you, Millie. She's here for, to support me. Um, it, it doesn't need to be that deep, but it kind of was that deep for me, for any movie theater, theater, DCPS are the mode of transferring data. It is not an MP3. It is not an mov. It is not a MP four. It is a DCP. DCPS include the data that tells the theater. If it is a trailer or a feature or a short, it includes other information like the title of the film, the frame rate is 24 frames per second, no matter what you shot it in. That's what the theater will play it in, which is one of the other things that one of the things that I would do differently in the creation of the seaweed sisters piece, which I, my sequence settings were 29.9, blah, blah, blah.
We'll call it 30. Um, but theaters will only play back 24. So if you want your work to be on screen at a theater, highly recommend shooting 24 frames per second, and people will think that that's not cool. And you're gonna be like, no, it's cool. <laugh> theater. I'm going big. True. Oh, you're putting a 4k on YouTube. That's so cute. I'm putting mine in a theater. <laugh> 24 frames a second. <laugh> um, but I, I, that you can export a DCP from premier pro you can maybe I couldn't, my computer threw a cool error. Mm-hmm <affirmative> it wasn't even a 4 0 4. It was like some other error I had never seen nor can I correct. So I hired a company to do it for us. Um, and that's how that worked out.
Eric: And I made the mistake of trying to make it myself because I'm like a total DIYer in all senses. And I did try to, I, I made one and I thought it worked and we actually used it for another festival and it worked for them. But then another festival told us, this is not like, this is, this is busted. Like, this is, there's a lot of errors. And so we had to have one made and yes, for this. Yeah, that, that was the second one that we had made. Ah,
Dana: We're all getting, get matching DCP tattoos, but yeah, we've bonded.
Eric: <laugh> if you, you know, if you want your film, if you want to screen your film in a theater somewhere, you're gonna need a DCP, you, you wanna have a professional make that for you.
Dana: And if they have to do a frame rate conversion, they charge by the minute. And if you want it done fast, they also charge for that. <laugh> <laugh>, which is kind of fascinating. We could all learn from this. I think like when was the last time a dancer or a choreographer up their rate, if you wanted it next day? I like that. I know. That's why I paid them. I was like, thank you for that idea. <laugh> I will make my money back by doing that later in the world. Okay, great. Uh, what went well? What would you do differently?
Brandon: Um, a lot went well, less is more. That's what I would do differently. Don't you don't have to do so much. You can extract a lot out of a little, so be easy on yourself, do less, and you end up creating more.
Dana: Brandon, you did so much. Can we do this one more time?
Brandon: I wish I did not. I hear it. And I wish I did not, but it's still, yeah, it's wonderful. But less is more.
Dana:Oh, man, it just kept getting bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger. And I, I would agree sometimes less is more, but also sometimes more is more. I'm not about that. Minimal is life. I be real. I like a lot, but thank you for that. Appreciate HOK what went well? What would you do differently? Oh, man. I think I know the answer
HOK: <laugh> um, I think it was nice that it ended up, uh, looking beautiful and I was really happy with that. Uh, I mean, I'll change a lot of things <laugh> but uh, first, first thing is I probably would try to not do it all by myself next time. That's um, that could probably save some time and hassle. Um, and, uh, I think with technical stuff, that was, I think that was probably the first time I did a proper stop motion. So just securing things, cuz there was so many times where I would be working, focusing five, six hours and then you bump the light or you bump the table and it's just, you know, unnecessary things that happen. But the thing is you don't, you don't know until, you know, you know, mm-hmm <affirmative> so I had to learn a very hard way, but uh, it was a very good stepping still.
Dana: Yeah. Nice Genna. Thank you. Thank you, Genna. Let's go. What we got, how <laugh> okay. I, I, I will rephrase the question, uh, because I have a microphone. How, how <laugh> and this question is directed towards talk. Yes.
HOK: Oh, oh yeah. Um, persistence. Perseverance. Exactly. No persevere exact to a lot of blades it's I knows. Yeah. It's um, it's a lot of work <laugh> um, I forget. So that was actually originally supposed to be just a normal video. We shot it. That was my, uh, friend Lisa amazing dancer from Ukraine. We put it, uh, we did it, I edited together and it wasn't bad, but it also wasn't that great. You know? So I was like, oh, I need to make, I, I just need to change it. Something had to make it great. And then I forget what happened from there to, oh, let me screenshot every single frame, print it out, cut it out, reshoot it. Re-edit it. I forget how I got to that part. <laugh> but Some steps in between Uh, I, I did, but together sort of like a BTS on sort of how I did it online. If you, I, I think you can probably search.
Dana: Yes. Yeah. This, this interview will become a bonus episode of words that move me and I will link to it in the show notes of that episode. Meta <laugh> any other questions? Yes. William Kirkland. Oh, so glad you're here. Will <laugh>
what inspired you to do a film like that Brandon?
Brandon: Long story short, I wanted to dance to those songs for a really long time. It's actually three songs that were put together. And then I moved into my first place in downtown after two and a half years of being homeless and was like, this is gonna be my time to just make a shits and gigs film, except it was nine and a half minutes of music. And I was like, I can't just dance around the city to that. <laugh> so I wrote a poem and I made a love letter to black youth and it was my way of healing through the last two years of my life and shedding light on everything that was happening during the pandemic with protests and all that we go through as, uh, a people. So just life.
Dana: Thank you so much. Thank you. Will. Yes, Sydney. Ooh, great question. So as someone, uh, for, uh, stop me if I miss, if I leave something out as someone who's interested in creating film, could you talk through the process of how you did it and made it and what advice would you give to having things look so good? Did I botch it? No. Okay. Um, maybe we start over here. Oh, okay. Oh yeah, sure, sure. Yeah. Yeah. I think first thing is just start, right. Uh, that's always the hardest part. So just start with whatever materials and tools you have. I think, you know, kind of down the line, it's been a similar version of like, you're always gonna learn something after you do it, that you wouldn't have anticipated learning. So get in there and then, uh, really reach out to your network of people.
Jillian: Yeah. That is how all seaweed films have ever happened is by really collaborating with friends that were like, oh, Hey, I, I wanna help do that for you. Or like, yeah, let's do this. You know? And uh, and that collaboration has just grown in scale of, you know, seven films deep. But the first one was like a single camera at Megan's apartment. <laugh> uh, at a couple underwater GoPro. Yeah, yeah, exactly. On one day, you know, and it's just, it snowballs. So it's like, that's why I think the first thing is just start and then you'll learn. And then, you know, the things that you pay attention to after you've completed a project are the things you're gonna expand upon in your next one. Right? Mm-hmm <affirmative> yeah.
Meg: Yeah. So good. And I think same thing delegating to a team. What you, what maybe doesn't bring you joy. Like there's certain things that seaweeds also we've hung onto. Cause we love making our costumes. We love putting hot gluing feathers onto a cap as craft time or table above your elbows or hot glue, Super gluing nipple TASS on do elbows. Very hot out. Very hot. Yes. Hot. Also we, you can't straighten the elbow because then it will reel. So if you notice, yeah, anyways, a soft bend in the elbow for that last two, eight counts Oh good. Which guided what? That, those moves were gonna be good. Uh, but that really is something that we love doing and also showed out to stand. We made those Sparky dresses, which we're fabric on wear fabric. Yep. She doesn't Remember it. She doesn't remember making them, but look at you're you are the for Clearly My sister tonight spark the best, uh, not being afraid to ask for help, especially on things that do not bring you joy <laugh> or maybe it's not your strength. You just say pass this along. Yeah. Mm-hmm <affirmative> you never know who's out there. So be like, yeah, I'm in I'll help.
Dana: Yeah. I think knowing Sydney also that you are in an institution, there is already a community within reach and also within whi come, there are people who have some tools that you might not have that are probably willing to lend them. Or there are people who have skills or interests that are just waiting for a choreographer to ask them, Hey, will you light my dance film? Exactly. I've been wanting to get a dance film in my, you know, in my category of work category. I think I meant to say caboodle <laugh>, um, even better. So yes. Reach out to your network and say, hi, I'm a choreographer and a dancer. And I would love to make a film. Is anybody interested in lighting it, writing it, shooting it, editing it. And you'll probably be surprised at how many of those answers are like, yes, totally.
Very few people say no to dance. <laugh> very few. The only thing, the only thing that I would add to that is to start developing a taste in deciding what looks good to you. Am I always drawn to bright? Am I always drawn to dark? Am I really drawn to high contrast? Or are, am I actually really drawn to homemade looking stuff? Like in my process with eight counts, I was like the kind of the crappier, the better, I like the bad audio. And I kind of like the like edit like really choppy edits, like felt good to me. So sometimes it isn't about making it look good, but it's about deciding what you think is good in the first place and then going after that.
Eric: I agree with everything. And I wanna add on the people aspect, you know, reaching out to people that you, that you admire and that you, you know, admire their talents. You never know if they might be willing to help you. And honestly, with our film, like the people really made it what it was or what it is. And so people and, um, I think also leaving a little bit of room for spontaneity for oh yeah. Things to happen in, in the mix. You know, of course planning is important, but um, I think leaving a little bit of space for spontaneity and creativity and flow, you know, to arise. Mm-hmm <affirmative> I think really incorporates something special.
Brandon: Um, piggybacking off of Megan, don't be afraid to ask for help. There are often times when you might feel like somebody will say no and like Daniel was saying, they will surprisingly say yes and go above and beyond. So don't be afraid. Let go of the ego. Also, don't get too attached to things. You might have eight shots to get through in the day, but you can only get through four of them. And that is okay, that is what was meant to happen. So just be kind to yourself through the process and also negotiate. Sometimes people say, they'll do this, but you can ask them to do something else. And they will say yes to. So just be honest and open and go with it. <laugh>
HOK: Um, it's kind of like what Dana said, but I think if you can always have your antenna out and alert with certain things that, uh, make you feel a certain way, uh, and it doesn't always have to be good or bad, but you know, you could be a watch in the movie and it's a certain scene that you'd like, if you can try to take apart that information, why you liked that scene specific, you know, was it lit differently? Was it the, the people, what it was if you can kind, and it doesn't have to be fully understanding if you just understand it a little bit. Like even if you get 10% of that and apply it to what you do, then I think you get to kind of borrow that magic where you got it from, and it doesn't even have to be, uh, in the same medium. You know, if, even if you're trying to make a film, it doesn't have to be borrowed from a film. It could be a certain music or a certain sound or a conversation or food or anything that makes you feel a certain way. Just start for a second be and just question and ask yourself, oh, why was that moment a little bit different? You know? And if you can kind of understand that, then that'll be a hint, uh, for you to make what you personally like.
Dana: Thank you. Great answers you. Wow. Wow. Great questions too. Any more cues? Yes. Megan Kane. Ah, I love it. Um, so Megan is asking for one or two non dancer, non choreographer influences in what you made for me. This is dead simple. Tom Sachs is an artist, uh, a sculptor and became a friend thanks to the wild internet. And, um, he and his, one of his interns at the time called the Vanny stat made a film called 10 bullets. Eight counts is my response to 10 bullets. 10 bullets is basically the, the moral code and conduct for anyone working in the studio, which is where Tom operates. Whi com is where I operate. So eight counts is the, the visual manual of words that move me just like 10 bullets is the visual manual of Tom's studio, which I highly recommend everybody watch at least twice it's so stink and good. Really, really, it will make a lot of sense. He'll be like, Ugh, day notch, not even original 10 bullets is the one. Uh, it, it really was. It, it, that was it for me.
Jillian: I'm like how he concerned. Oh yeah. Wow. Um, we, I mean, Ooh, sexy. Yeah. That's what I was gonna say. I'm like the, the idea of like discovering what is sexy as a seaweed like that, uh, was really the driving force of creating that piece originally. That was for live performance. Um, and then I think just overall seaweed, like the nonverbal expression that of like, yeah, ex uh, feelings, you know, of like, you know, I don't know. I, I would, I'm drawn to be saying, yeah, like, uh, also comedians, you know, like a three Stooges, but that's not something we talk about, but I think that is like a background noise. Right. You know, in things that inspire us and that we think are funny and enjoy. Um, I don't know, but yeah, ultimately driving force was like, what if the seaweeds were sexy? How would that go?
Dana: Yeah. That's where we went. Yeah. <laugh>, I'm actually quite impressed that other figures, as in humans, didn't factor factor in at least to this process at all, there wasn't like, oh, like more Lucie ball or like, it was, it was purely that no, it was like, what if, or what's, what's dumber than that? Like what and slash, and did you pick up, you picked up flippers on like a whim and we were just like, these are so funny. And I think those two things combined that was purely like, oh yes. How are flippers, Andy weed? Sexy. You go, oh, wait, backstory, sorry. <laugh> no tell you backstory the, the meat and potatoes of that piece. Um, grew from, uh, we were asked to open for a musical group called Lucious on a tour that they did. And we had, yes, super Woohoo. And we had a, like relatively small body of work and we're like, wait, we have an hour long slot. We have to, okay. I mean 15 minutes, but even still, it felt like hour 20 minutes.
Our long's coming the hour longer, the hour long is coming, stay tuned. Um, but we felt like we needed like an audience participation moment. So what, what is like, you know, in every Janet Jackson tour, she has some guy from the audience come up and she gives him a little show. Why you at me <laugh> cause you were there. No. Uh, and so we decided to do that on tour with Lucius, but we obviously planned it, but we created this piece to be our, our audience alluring audience participation moment. And, um, we, we have a unwritten promise to ourselves, which is to make a film every year. And we hadn't yet in that year. And we were like, what do we have? What do we have? And we knew that we wanted to play with the idea of what is sexy to a seaweed sister. And so this was perfect. And from there it became a big game of yes. And yes. And we should do it at Bob Baker's marionette theater. Yes. And booby tasels on the elbows. Yes. And have a friendly theater ghost. Um, so that's how that worked. Not, not a human, but I just totally hijacked the conversation <laugh> podcast host. Okay.
Eric:That's great. Thank you. <laugh> um, well, I'm laughing because as I'm over here, thinking about my answers, my two are dance and choreography related, so I'm not gonna mention them because it's not part of the question, but Um, but I think the first is, uh, the space that we were so gifted with, um, shout out to Charissa’s uncle Absolute time capsule gem. And so we really pulled from the space and created with the space in mind and created most of the choreography after we had seen the space and then the props that were in the space, like the hallways. So like shout out to also to Wes Anderson, because that was a big inspiration because of the space, because the space was very, it was giving Wes Anderson for sure. And then I think the idea that we wanted to escape, like this idea of, uh, a world that we wanted to create, and this world was colorful and rich and retro futuristic and weird and quirky. And so really leaning into this idea.
Dana: Oh yeah. Okay. Non dancer, non choreographer influence Brandon.
Brandon: Um, really easy actually Steven Spielberg is a big one for me that he has a documentary on, I wanna say HBO or Netflix, maybe it's a two hour documentary about how he started and how he got to where he is. And my favorite part about it is that he says before he goes onto any set, he still gets nervous. No matter how much planning or process there is, he still goes on is like 50%. I know what I'm doing 50%. I have no idea what's gonna happen and we're just gonna go for it. And that was really inspiring to me. Mm-hmm <affirmative> and Solange, because she is just everything. Yeah.
Dana: There you go. I cannot wait for StevensSpielberg to meet you. Yeah. I'm gonna take that. I'm very excited for that moment.
HOK: Yeah. Uh, so I live in downtown right now and I live close to the flower district and I always drive past that. I think flower's really, they're just beautiful, you know? Uh, so yeah, I think it worked perfectly for the video I did. And, you know, realistically, if we were to dance within huge flowers, that costs quite a lot, but if they're, uh, bouquet of flowers and then you are little, it's the same thing.
Dana: Wow. Yes. You're just paying time. Exactly.
HOK: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. That's true. Actually, it's probably more expensive than
Dana:<laugh>. Oh goodness. Great answers. I love that you asked for not choreographer and not a dancer and we give you not humans. <laugh> just one human flowers space. Yeah. Yeah. That's great. I do think I saw another hand fly up. Yeah, Leah, again, I love that question. I will try to reiterate for the microphone that's here. Leah is asking how did the spaces inform our choices in the moment and in our planning, in, in making the thing, Eric, we're gonna let you start.
Eric: Okay, great. So I think, um, a lot of it was seeing the space and then thinking about how we wanna document it and pulling from references that we had found, um Chrisa as the reference queen. So the references were, were great. And the pre, the pre-production phase, like planning before and then collaboration with our DP was really awesome. Um, so yeah, just like if it was a long hallway thinking about how we, how the camera could move down this hallway and, and then the choreography could move with it. And like in the theater, it was like swirly and circular. And so just seeing the space and really imagining how we can, um, document it with, um, respect to references and collaboration to our DP, with our DP.
Dana:So would you say it's a combination of like, like the impulse that you get from the space as you're standing in it plus reference, but not exactly reference plus your other collaborators?
Eric: Yeah, absolutely. Like having the reference and it's and then the space and then you're inspired and then you collaborate mm-hmm
Jillian: <affirmative> did I get, what would you say ma? Um, some of our piece was pretty direct application because we made it for a stage and then we were putting on a show in a theater. Uh, but then all the preamble bits came from a tech scout, you know, so it's like going to see the theater and then walking away and being like, okay, these are the things that we're hoping to achieve. What are the best faces that support those ideas? And even then like, again, you learn things afterwards that you're like, ah, that we actually needed this and didn't get it. So we also in this shoot, uh, have learned the value of reshoots and at shooting other things afterwards, that's the first time we've ever done that. Um, and in a totally other location, because to go back to Bob Baker's was not an option.
Dana: Uh, so that, that was something too, that kind of learning the forgiveness of, uh, even though we were in a very specific location that was very descriptive, visually that some of those other moments that we needed to get could be kind of blended in, in an alternative space, depending on how we shot them, that you wouldn't fully detect that. Like, Hey, you're not backstage with the, the Muppets. I was gonna say the Muppets, the puppets. Um, so yeah, I don't, uh, that's kind of a jumbling answer, but those are a lot of things we learned in this round. Totally. Yeah. Yes, yes. Uh, Brandon,
Brandon: Um, go on walks. I just took lots of walks, walked around, listening to the music, planning outside and brought my phone and was like, oh, I could do this here and this year. And just using the surroundings that I had, cuz I didn't have the resources for the locations that I saw in my head. So I may do with what I had around me and then figured out how to make that as impactful and grandiose as possible. And that's where things like the drone came in or just playing with costumes and how you can enhance your space with what you're wearing and the composition of the shot too. So anything is usable. You just have to think about it
Dana: Before you go HOK. Sorry. I have one tiny question. I'm thinking if I sneak it in right now, then I won't get in trouble. Um, did you get permits for any of your shoots?
Brandon: Nope. All Gorilla, Had to shoot it over the course of a month.
Dana: Okay. Okay. Cool. And HOK’s was all in studio. You guys', your space was a gift, a gift, a gift. And we rented Bob Baker's theater, which is also a thing you can do. Yeah. Wonderful for a party or your next film, take it away.
HOK: Uh, yeah, actually mine wasn't in a studio. It was in my living room. Okay. Which looks Corner of a living pretty. Uh, so I did have the luxury of, you know, playing around and trying to find the angle, um, that I like. And since it was a one man band, the communication between the DP and the set designer was perfect <laugh> it was just me. Sometimes they would argue, but most of the time it was fine.
Uh, yeah. So that was, that was good. And it was, it was actually really fun to use every day who use everyday house objects in a different way. Um, for example, it was like, oh, I, I thought I needed certain more elements of light. And I ended up using the reflection of these, um, what do you call 'em? They like Christmas stringy lights we have on the patio, but it was just a reflection of that on the glass table. Uh, and I just sent up. Okay, nice. Yeah.
I wondered how that Happened. Yeah. So it's kind of, um, it's, it's, it's nice when you get to, uh, use everyday things that you are so used to mm-hmm <affirmative> and then you get to, uh, have a new appreciation for them, you know? So going back to that other question too, what shall I do you have every resource around you and you know, the cameras we have on our phone is amazing. So just, just, yeah, just do it. I'm not supposed say just,
Dana: Just do it or do it start do it, do it start. Yeah. Um, and with that, my friends start getting out of here. <laugh> um, kidding. Thank you guys so much for being here. I'll see you later. Thank you all so much. Thank you so much.
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