Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: God.
[00:00:00] Speaker B: How's this going by the way? Am I wearing this correctly?
[00:00:02] Speaker A: Yeah, but you're not keeping it.
[00:00:07] Speaker B: Okay, well then we better remove it now.
[00:00:09] Speaker A: No, you can keep it on. You can wear it for a while. You can, you can dream.
[00:00:20] Speaker B: Oh my God.
This episode is finally here. We're finally doing this. After 220 plus episodes, I am finally getting to sit down. I'm crying everyone. No big deal.
Finally getting to sit down and talk to the one, the only Toni freaking Basil. She is probably the most mentioned person on the podcast. She's a multiple award winning choreographer, dancer, director, producer, singer, songwriter. She is a legend in the dance world. She's probably among the most influential women in the dance world, period, certainly in my dance life. And I'm thrilled to bring you this conversation with Toni. But first, let's do some wins today. I'm celebrating having an audition over the weekend that resulted in me dancing like a convention kid all over again. And guess what friends? She's not 18 anymore. She really isn't. These knees are at least 95 years old and I was dancing from 1:30 in the afternoon until 6:45. Please don't call SAG AFTRA. Nobody broke the rules. We were given breaks. But I thought because this audition was on a travel day, I thought, and I know you can relate maybe that if I slowed down there's no chance I would start back up again. So I continued moving. I was moving my body from 1:30 until 6:45pm and oh my God, I did moves that I never thought that I would do. I did moves that I've never learned how to do. Porre hempla, that little contemporary hop where you put the. This move became popular after I left my dance studio. I never learned how to do this move. The first time I was doing this move was at this audition and now I've probably done it 90 times.
It happened, happened. I made it to the end. That's my win. How about you? What's going well in your world?
Congratulations. I'm so glad you're winning. Auditions or no auditions, callbacks or no callbacks, I'm cheering you on.
Speaking of cheering, wow. I did not do that on purpose. Toni Basel I mentioned is legendary. But most of you, especially if you're a non dancer, will know her from her hit song hey Mickey which is of course one of the most referenced chant songs of all time. But she's here on the podcast today celebrating the re release of one of her first first firsts called Breakaway. Her body of work is endless. Her sound bites are even more endless. I am so honored and grateful to get to share this conversation with the one and only Tony Basel with you. Enjoy.
[00:03:35] Speaker A: What's up, Dana?
[00:03:36] Speaker B: Hi, Tony. Thank you for being on my podcast. This has been. You know, you might not know this. You are the most mentioned person on my podcast.
[00:03:45] Speaker A: No.
[00:03:45] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:03:46] Speaker A: By who? You?
[00:03:47] Speaker B: Yes. The host and. And probably the president of your fan club. I think I'm number one in your fan club.
[00:03:53] Speaker A: I think you are.
[00:03:55] Speaker B: I'm top of the list and I'm.
[00:03:56] Speaker A: A fan of yours. I think you're an extraordinary dancer.
[00:04:00] Speaker B: We're starting off strong, my friends. I'm just going to try not to cry for this interview. That's my number one objective. Number two objective is to get.
[00:04:09] Speaker A: I love your T shirt.
[00:04:10] Speaker B: Thank you so much. Do you want to talk about it? Where might the viewer listeners find a T shirt said this.
[00:04:15] Speaker A: You can go to tonybazzle.net go to merch and you can grab that shirt. It's stretch too.
[00:04:21] Speaker B: It's lovely. I love how it dances.
[00:04:23] Speaker A: Yeah, I have that outfit also. I have every outfit I ever wore in any picture on any TV show, in the lockers, all my Follies, Bazaar, all my. Actually that picture on the wall is part of my set. I have my sets. I have everything.
[00:04:41] Speaker B: Okay, let's, let's, let's back up a little bit. Tony Basil is my guest today. You're a legend, Tony. You are not just the most mentioned person on my podcast. You're the most mentioned person in my daily life. I think about you when I'm working. I think about you when I'm training. I think about you as I'm navigating my creative life. And that is what this podcast is about. So to have you here to is a real thrill for me. Thank you again.
[00:05:04] Speaker A: We've been talking about doing this for a while, but I would been waiting so that because when I work with Tina and Bet and Bowie and whatever, they don't do interviews until they've got something to talk about. You know, it's one of the things.
[00:05:16] Speaker B: But you've got stuff to talk about. What do you want to talk about?
[00:05:18] Speaker A: I just got back from South Korea, you know, which was a three day event in honor of me called Street Beat. You can go to my Instagram and you can go to my YouTube channel, Tony Basil's house and see the musical number Street Beat. And you can also go to my Instagram and see everything that I did in South Korea, which was two classes, two conferences, and judging two dance competitions, the locking and the whacking. We had almost 400 people sign up and it was.
[00:05:56] Speaker B: Cause the talent was insane.
[00:05:57] Speaker A: Because those dancers, those South Korean dancers in locking and in whacking are insane. They have really just changed the whole course of whacking. I mean, lots of people stay funky and stay, you know, all different styles. But South Korea, woo. It turns up style of its own. And they have battles weekly. They can go from battle to battle to battle, battle to battle. And that's why they're all so good. You know, they're just dancing, always dancing. They're always improvising, they're always dancing. They're always doing some routine. They're always doing something. And I included them, I included them in my. In my little judges demo. Cool.
[00:06:43] Speaker B: Yeah. You sent me a clip, I'm going to show it. If you are only listening to this episode to catch you up, I am wearing a Tony Basel T shirt and she is stunningly clad in black and white. The T shirts are available, like she said on her store and we're going to include a lot of video bits. We'll be showing some wardrobe items today. So this is definitely an episode that if you are a avid listener only, you might want to bounce over to YouTube to watch this episode because there's a lot of visual goodies to grab. Least of all you yourself. You look fantastic.
[00:07:15] Speaker A: Well, yeah, there's. Everything we talk about is on my either Instagram or on my Tony Basil's house. Yes, that's your YouTube channel. Yeah, it's somewhere.
[00:07:28] Speaker B: Which brings me to earlier this year I helped you with a project for the Lincoln center. An audible oral history of dance as told by you, who has been there for you will slap me for almost the history of American dance. Like I'm not calling you 400 years old.
[00:07:45] Speaker A: I'm sorry. I was in show business before I was born. Tell that story because I love it. My parents, my parents.
Well, I have a video on my YouTube channel of my Aunt Iva and Aunt Christine and Uncle Billy dancing in a silent film in 1919.
And then I have Aunt Christine because once they were Billy Wells and the Eclair Twins. Because when you're in the four phase, when you're in vaudeville, you gotta have a snappy name. So the Eclair Twins and Billy Wells and the Eclair. Now, when my mother and her younger brother joined the act from Australia, immigrated over here to America, then they became Billy Wells and the Four Fays. Now, they weren't the Eclairs and they weren't the Faes, they were the Andersons. But you know, they put these snappy names together and you can actually go to my YouTube channel so you can see the act. The act never changed from 1927. The orchestration.
[00:08:50] Speaker B: It may have broke. Don't fix it.
[00:08:51] Speaker A: The orchestration never changed. The orchestration because it was too costly. The outfits changed when the girls in the act got married. Then the outfits would change and Christine would get new wardrobe. But Christine, who's being thrown around in that 1919 film, is being thrown around in Billy Wells and the Four Fays on the Ed Sullivan show, which you can go see on my channel. And it's the same woman from 1919 still doing sex, still dancing in 1964. And that show was a show that the Beatles, the first Beatles show that they did in America.
[00:09:31] Speaker B: You're entertainment royalty. You are.
[00:09:33] Speaker A: You've been there and bodily in royalty, that's for sure.
[00:09:36] Speaker B: And you were doing it before you were born.
[00:09:37] Speaker A: That's right.
[00:09:38] Speaker B: This is a fun story because I happen to know, because I happen to listen to you talk a lot, that your first official job in show business was not as a dancer but as a props stager.
[00:09:51] Speaker A: I did. Yes, yes. And I think.
[00:09:52] Speaker B: Tell the story.
[00:09:53] Speaker A: That was at the Low State Theater when my father was the orchestra leader at the Low State Theater. Billy Wells and the Four Fays with the opening act there on that bill. And they open their act by jumping through hoops.
[00:10:08] Speaker B: Like hula hoops?
[00:10:09] Speaker A: No, two big hoops with their names, Billy Wells and the Four Fays. And they'd run out with the hoops. And then two girls would stand behind each hoop and dive through the hoops. Because you've got to open big and close big and fill in the middle. That's the vaudevillian.
And so before they had canvas covering the hoops where they could just re tape it up, they had actual paper. So they would have to re paper the hoops. And I got to, at 4 years old, repaper the hoops. Yes, I was repapering the hoops.
[00:10:48] Speaker B: That brings me so much joy. I don't know why. Just thinking about you at four years old, paper tape and a hula hoop or a show hoop. Just like being a part of the family act.
[00:10:59] Speaker A: I see you have that picture of little Tony Basil in my aunt's outfit.
[00:11:05] Speaker B: I will be including it in this episode. You guys are gonna be showered with visual treasures in this episode. Moving on. I wanna talk a little bit about your move to Los Angeles. Which was not from Chicago directly, was it? No. Or was it from Vegas?
[00:11:20] Speaker A: Yeah, from Las Vegas.
[00:11:22] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:11:23] Speaker A: Cause my father was the orchestra leader at the Chicago theater where I stood in the wings every weekend for 10 years, which means I saw over 1,000 shows from 1947 to 1957. And then the mob moved my dad to Vegas. Uncle Slim did. Well, my father's name was Bazilotta, and Chicago was run by the Italians. And when stage shows went out, stage shows, for your audience that doesn't know is when there's a movie, like a great American musical, and then the curtain goes down, and what goes up is a live orchestra and three acts. An opening act, which is always a juggler, the dancer, the adagio dancer, the plate spinner. Then the second act is the comedian, and the third act is always a star, always a singer.
So after that, they would get the audience out, and the next audience would come in and see it all over again. Which means that my father did four to seven shows a day.
[00:12:37] Speaker B: And this is part of what makes you. You growing up under that work ethic and watching that many shows per night.
[00:12:43] Speaker A: Well, I went on the weekend because during the week I was at school and ballet class.
[00:12:48] Speaker B: That's right. You started with ballet. And I.
[00:12:51] Speaker A: Well, I started with a step called the Drunken Sailor.
[00:12:54] Speaker B: That's right. That's right. Which was a song.
[00:12:56] Speaker A: What can you do with the Duncan, Sailor? What can you do with the Duncan. Yes, it was a huge hit. No, I heard it. I heard this song on the record player and I went nuts. I must have been. Well, I was in Chicago by. No. Yes, we were in Chicago by then. So I was about 4, 5. And my mother taught me this step, the Drunken Sailor, which is when you cross your feet and then you. Yeah, you rock back and forth like you're drunk. So I did that. Shot right up, start out, did that obsessively as a drunken sailor.
[00:13:30] Speaker B: Morning, ballerina.
I want to pause here for a second because I've called you my dance mom before. You have guided me in my dance life the way I think a lot of actual dance moms do. My mom was not so much a dance mom in the sense that she watched every competition and would, like, look through the window during rehearsals. She would drop me off and she would pick me up. She would make my costumes. She's a phenomenal seamstress. But I remember at a very young age, like her pulling my. Slicking my hair back into a ponytail and it being so painful for me that I decided from then on that, I would do it myself. And I think I must have been five.
[00:14:09] Speaker A: I lost hair.
[00:14:10] Speaker B: Like doing my own ponytail.
[00:14:11] Speaker A: I lost hair.
[00:14:12] Speaker B: Was that like that with your mom's.
[00:14:13] Speaker A: Hair in that ponytail? Because that. She had to make it so tight. Because I used to turn my head for the fouettes that I was famous for.
[00:14:21] Speaker B: Which was your.
[00:14:22] Speaker A: And still famous for, and. Yeah, and she used to leave it up. She wouldn't take it down, wouldn't wash it. My head would rot. I mean, I had hair that was just coming out. Just coming out. But this is show business. But the poetes were more important than the hair on your head.
[00:14:41] Speaker B: This is show business.
[00:14:42] Speaker A: That's right. These are the part.
[00:14:43] Speaker B: Okay. This is what I want this episode to be about. Finally, 20 minutes into it is all of the reasons why you are you. And it's like it was the water that you were swimming in was show business. It's. I think I wind up asking a lot of my guests about their process and how they discovered their process. But you were truly in process.
[00:15:02] Speaker A: I was. It was. The whole thing was process. My life, it was all process. Yes.
[00:15:05] Speaker B: So none of it. None of it was a decision. It was all just happening in us?
[00:15:09] Speaker A: No. But I loved it. And I didn't want to be anywhere else. I knew that when my mother and I would walk down the alley to the Chicago theater on the weekend and I saw all those kids with the autographed books, tons of them, standing outside of the stage door, they would have to part like Moses and the Red Sea. The Red Sea for us. Who. I had white gloves on by then and a hat or a ponytail, and walk through them.
[00:15:42] Speaker B: You and your mom together.
[00:15:43] Speaker A: Walk through them. And I knew it was special. And I could walk through that stage door, and I could go up the stairs to my father's dressing room, or I could walk straight onto the wings, because there was another door which led to the wings, and I could be there. And I just. And I loved it. I knew it was special. I didn't want to be any other place than that or a dance class.
[00:16:14] Speaker B: And did you, from that point, did you want to be anything other than a star? Did you want to be a dancer? Did you want to be a singer? What was it that you wanted to be?
[00:16:25] Speaker A: Well, you know, back in that day, the American musicals, the stars like Danny Kaye or Mitzi Gaynor, Debbie Reynolds, Syd Charisse, they did everything. They were acting, they were singing, and they were dancing. So I just assumed that that's what.
[00:16:49] Speaker B: It meant to Be a star that.
[00:16:51] Speaker A: You kind of did all those things. There was always in those movies, a singing star that only sang. Gene Kelly who sang, danced and you know, but, but no, mainly I liked the triple threat idea.
[00:17:07] Speaker B: Okay, so Mob moves your family to Vegas.
[00:17:11] Speaker A: Uncle Slim.
[00:17:12] Speaker B: You see shows at a young age, I'm guessing. Like, you must have seen everything on this trip.
[00:17:16] Speaker A: Well, then I stood on the side of the stage of the Sahara Hotel where my father was the orchestra leader. But that was, that was. I would even get double stuffed because I could stand on the side of the stage and see like it was like Buddy hackett and Donald O'Connor was there, Marlena Dietrich was there. But I could go from the big room right out to what they call the lounge. And the lounge was really big potatoes. The lounge had the Sahara, Lounge had Louis Prima and Keely Smith. So I saw them live and all these other.
[00:17:52] Speaker B: In close proximity like that.
[00:17:54] Speaker A: Other crazy acts like the Freddie Bell and the Bell Boys. Like these acts that sang and danced and were kind of crazy and funky. Yeah, it was kind of the beginning of like that funk. The lounge had the funk.
[00:18:09] Speaker B: What year is this?
[00:18:11] Speaker A: That was from when we moved like around 58 to 61 and straight from there to LA. Straight from there to LA.
[00:18:19] Speaker B: Tell a story about the car that you drove to la.
[00:18:21] Speaker A: I drove a big white desoto.
[00:18:24] Speaker B: Uh huh.
[00:18:24] Speaker A: My girlfriend said. Roberta Tennis said she was gonna leave the key. I don't know how I found my.
[00:18:32] Speaker B: Without maps, without anything. You just got in the car?
[00:18:34] Speaker A: Well, yeah, and it was a straight. It was straight. Cause I had the year before, we had driven in the summer and I studied at Eugene Loring's ballet. Ballet class.
And I just thought I could drive.
[00:18:47] Speaker B: Straight and get to la.
[00:18:49] Speaker A: And get to la. Just due west, just straight. I don't know how I found the house. I don't know how I found the key. I don't know how I survived.
Because I had a flat tire.
[00:19:03] Speaker B: Yes, this is the story.
[00:19:04] Speaker A: I had a flat tire. I had this big white desoto with the wings in the back, the fins, and another big white DeSoto with fins going the other way. The other way. Stopped, got out of his car, came across the street, came across it wasn't a freeway yet. Fixed my tire and left.
Now I don't know about you, that's out of a movie, but who knows angels where that happened? And I had no idea that if you drove on the freeway in the left lane, you were supposed to drive fast. Uh oh, so a lot of horns were honking. At me, and I had no idea why. I mean, how old were you at this time? Huh?
[00:19:56] Speaker B: Moving to LA. How old were you?
[00:19:58] Speaker A: Um, like, 17. 18. 18.
[00:20:02] Speaker B: I was 18 also when I moved to LA. Yet another thing we have in common.
Yeah, just geeking out over here on the subject of angels and on big stars. You had a fan early on. Eleanor Powell.
[00:20:17] Speaker A: I opened up for Eleanor Powell at the Dunes Hotel the summer before I left for Los Angeles. And I was a baby ballerina in the chorus. Like there was a chorus line, but there was, like, a thing. A baby ballerina came out and pointe shoes. And that was me. I lost my pointe shoe, fell off opening night. So I got the big picture in the newspaper.
With the baby ballerina like this, with the shoe hanging. Yeah.
[00:20:48] Speaker B: Basil, you're not going to believe this.
[00:20:50] Speaker A: But your shoe fell off, too.
[00:20:52] Speaker B: My nickname at my studio growing up. One Shoe Wilson. No, that's what they called me because it happened all the time. I do. I have one foot that is substantially larger than the other.
[00:21:02] Speaker A: Yeah, me too.
[00:21:02] Speaker B: Yeah, my small foot loses.
[00:21:04] Speaker A: Phenomenal about the Dunes was that we talked about the lounge.
Ronnie Lewis's shows were in the lounge. Ronnie Lewis was one of the greatest choreographers ever for lounge acts. He also did Liza Minnelli.
[00:21:21] Speaker B: I feel terrible, because that name is really familiar, but, you know, you should.
[00:21:23] Speaker A: Go look at his stuff. He did Liza Minnelli.
He was phenomenal. And I trained jazz with his assistant, Joyce Roberts, because Ronnie Lewis, back in his early days, danced with Jack Cole.
So that's the jazz I learned that you're coming from. That I came from the Jack Cole. I never learned modern or Horton technique. That was all New York. I never got to have that kind of technique. You know the contractions? Never had that.
[00:21:57] Speaker B: Yeah, no, me neither.
[00:21:58] Speaker A: No, it was a lot of knee turns down to the ground and spins. Yeah, that was Jack Cole.
[00:22:03] Speaker B: Okay, so by some grace of God and the angels, you make your way to la. Oh, Eleanor Powell gives you a strong endorsement.
[00:22:09] Speaker A: She loves you. She did. And she gave me.
And I, you know, everything I say, I have backed up with paper, with contracts, because I hoard this piece of paper I don't have. And it was Eleanor Powell telling Tanya Lachine from the Diaghilev Dance Company that this little girl had talent and to take care of her. And I couldn't find Tanya's studio.
She was in a weird place in Beverly Hills. I couldn't find her studio or studio, and I don't know the paper. I don't think I understood the Gravity.
[00:22:47] Speaker B: Of someone like her.
[00:22:48] Speaker A: Of that paper. Yeah, but it's not findable.
It's not findable. And I hoard everything. I don't have that. I don't have that. And I also don't have that. A note from Anthony Tudor, the great chorus. I don't have those two things to prove. To prove. But I do have that. I do have that newspaper article.
[00:23:12] Speaker B: Literally everything else.
[00:23:13] Speaker A: I have the newspaper article that I opened up for her and Bette Midler. And I met Anthony Tudor when we were at the ballet and we were able to meet up with him. And he followed my career. And he actually sent me a note when he saw that. The Roxie show, your show, my show at the Roxy, which was kind of, as I was leaving the lockers, singing and dancing and kind of doing everything that he commented on.
[00:23:42] Speaker B: Very cool.
[00:23:42] Speaker A: So I missed that.
[00:23:44] Speaker B: And you had a fan in Bob Fosse, right?
[00:23:46] Speaker A: Bob Fosse followed the lockers. Bob Fosse, Ann ranking his museum after.
[00:23:54] Speaker B: Gwen Burden and dear friend of yours.
[00:23:57] Speaker A: Oh, no, I didn't know Gwen that well.
[00:23:59] Speaker B: I meant ranking Anne.
[00:24:02] Speaker A: Yeah, I knew Cheetah better.
And I was having lunch with Anne and I said, you know, when I look at one of those Roxie Hart numbers, I said, and I see her doing a step that to me, looks like she's locking. And she said, oh, my God. Bob loved the lockers. He said every time you guys were gonna be on television, and the only way you knew people were gonna be on television is you read TV Guide.
[00:24:31] Speaker B: Oh, my God, yes.
[00:24:33] Speaker A: Yeah, you read TV Guide.
[00:24:34] Speaker B: I remember what those little guys were.
[00:24:37] Speaker A: That's. And you would read TV Guide every. All the time. Cause you could see the whole week what was gonna. Because it was only ABC, CBS and NBC. There were only three channels at the time. There wasn't, you know, 24 hour news. It wasn't anything like that. And she said he used to call everyone to say they're gonna be on and to watch them. I mean, when she said that to me, you know, I really was, like, teared up. And, you know, when we were flying all around the place, on every talk show from Johnny Carson to touring with Frank Sinatra, opening up for the Funkadelics, the same Radio City, the same year we opened up for Frank Sinatra at Carnegie hall, you know, we were like, flying around. We were, you know, it was just crazy. And it's. Of course, now that we realize that we changed the face of dance at the time after the Lockers Fell, finished, and all of a Sudden Twyla was doing ballets where there was street and, you know, things like that were happening. Did we really realize, I mean, I knew we were calling to the attention of the audience that street was an American art form, a fully, wholly American art form, a real American art form. But I had no idea. I had no idea really how internationally and worldwide. I mean, in just a boot, which is in Paris this year, I think in May, they will have over 1400 people in the audience to see the finals. And of course, there's locking, there's popping, there's house. I don't know whether they're gonna have hap. I don't know whether they're gonna have whacking. He's never had whacking. Amsterdam has whacking. You know, all these different. Amsterdam is insane. Oh, my God. If anybody wants to just do a quick crash course in locking in whacking, they have a three day after the week event of Summer Dance Forever. They have workshops. They have three days of workshops from 9 in the morning till 10 at night.
[00:27:05] Speaker B: We're taking the podcast on the road. Yeah, let's go.
[00:27:08] Speaker A: Nine in the morning to ten at night. And you could, you could. There's three classes every hour. I mean, you. I mean, it's like Sophie's Choice. You have to decide who am I going to take from today? And I mean, you can take all day long, you can take classes all day long, you can take classes and you take classes from the winners of the event and the judges of the event, and he brings over master teachers. So. And if anybody has missed Amsterdam, you can see it live streaming when it happens. Summer Dance Forever.
[00:27:46] Speaker B: And it's really well captured. It's beautiful. It doesn't. It feels like a sporting event. The coverage is like, it's exquisite.
[00:27:53] Speaker A: Oh, it's fantastic. I know. Not last year, but the year before, I was color personality for the live streaming, for the locking, for the locking, the whacking and the popping. And I said to John, I can't do the popping pop. And Pete will kill me. He will kill me. He said, no, everybody that should be maybe doing it is battling or is judging.
And Yaya, who also pop pops, who came in third the next year. Holy smoke. I thought, you know what he said? Yaya's gonna do it. I said, o. Because what has happened now is that the daughters and the sons of the originals are battling or the wives. Yaya sometimes has to go up against her husband. You know, Slim Boogie or Slim Boogie is judging her, or Kwame is Judging Clementine. So there's a whole new. It's like a family thing. And it starts to remind me of my family, you know, this family thing that is happening because it didn't go away street. Did not go away street. Just the lockers gave birth to so much boogaloo. Sam has said that when he saw the lockers on tv, he put a group together. Wasn't locked. Well, he did put locking together, but he put a whole thing called Electric Boogaloo together and popping together. And then after that, well, whacking was happening at that time. Then after that, the poppers came down to la. Then they were on Soul Train, like we were on Soul Train. And then there was house, there was hip hop, there was crumping.
[00:29:44] Speaker B: It all happened very fast.
[00:29:46] Speaker A: And it's every decade because the music changes.
[00:29:49] Speaker B: But the 70s in particular was like, such a. A pivotal moment, not just for you, but I think for dance seeing. We'll call it street dance, which I do want to talk about, because stop me if I'm wrong, but you did coin that term.
[00:30:03] Speaker A: I think I did.
[00:30:05] Speaker B: And I think you also coined another important term.
[00:30:07] Speaker A: What? Dana's talented.
[00:30:11] Speaker B: Can we use that as a sound bite for this episode? No. Do you remember one day we were over here freestyling, dancing and freestyle still is not like, my favorite thing to do.
[00:30:21] Speaker A: It's terrifying.
[00:30:22] Speaker B: I'm terrified all the time.
[00:30:23] Speaker A: It's terrifying.
[00:30:24] Speaker B: Terrifying. Okay, well, that's. I rest assured.
[00:30:26] Speaker A: People around, with people around.
[00:30:28] Speaker B: Oh, my God.
[00:30:28] Speaker A: Not. Not for those South Koreans.
[00:30:30] Speaker B: Not for the people to do the battle.
[00:30:32] Speaker A: It's.
[00:30:32] Speaker B: It. It's still.
[00:30:34] Speaker A: It's a different animal.
[00:30:34] Speaker B: I spent most of my life. It's like you. Ballet, tap.
[00:30:37] Speaker A: Learning, learning routines, Learning routines. It's a different animal.
[00:30:40] Speaker B: And thank you for encouraging that. I lean into it by inviting me here. We were. We were dancing one day, and you looked at me and you asked, what is that? That? What is that? And I was like, oh, what?
[00:30:53] Speaker A: You were doing what I was doing?
[00:30:55] Speaker B: And I was like, freestyle, I think. Is it that bad?
And you were like, no. What style?
[00:31:00] Speaker A: What do you call that?
[00:31:01] Speaker B: And I said at that time, I'm probably 20, trying to explain myself to my agents. Like, what do I do?
[00:31:11] Speaker A: How did that ever happen? It still doesn't happen for me.
[00:31:14] Speaker B: So I was having this moment commiserating with you. Like, I don't know what to call myself because my whole life I've been trying to be everything.
And so you said you grew up at a dance studio, right? Ballet tap. You tap And I was like, yeah, I tap a little bit. And you said, but majority jazz, right? And I was like, yeah. I mean, I took jazz class. It wasn't vernacular jazz. It was across the floor and technique and jazz to dance standards, to competition dance standards. And you said, why don't you call it jazz?
And so I started calling my style and my class jazz. And I love it. In fact, it's my favorite part of class, explaining to people where the name came from and what the plus will be today. Today is jazz, musical theater. Today's jazz. We are lip syncing, y'all. Today is jazz drills, Today's jazz mime, Today's jazz, all the things. So thank you for that gift.
[00:32:12] Speaker A: That's how I developed the name street dance is. I was asked in an interview, the lockers had just done this Alex's Hats, big fashion show. And they. It caused, you know, it was a big deal. And so we got an article in sole publication. And the woman said to me, well, what are you doing? They took pictures of us. What are you doing? And I said, well, you know, we're doing the Campbell Lock and we're locking and no, but what are you doing? What's the.
[00:32:47] Speaker B: You know, she wanted you to zoom.
[00:32:48] Speaker A: She wanted to be able to call it something bigger thing. And in a moment, actually, I said, well, we rock dance. And Fluke was standing sitting next to me.
We don't dance to rock music. And I thought, oh, my God. Oh, my God. Because oh, my God. And I thought, wait. And I don't know, it was in an instant or how long it happened, but my eyes were, like, spinning. And I thought, well, I'm not going to say we're club dancers, because that brings down the level.
We're not trained.
We're street dancers. We come from the street. Yeah. And I said, we're street dancers.
And that stuck. And in that sole publication, you know.
[00:33:34] Speaker B: She quotes, the first time it's printed.
[00:33:36] Speaker A: It became the umbrella term for everything else that has come. You know, it's like, whether it's crumping or hip hop or it's like, you know, we fall under this big category.
[00:33:51] Speaker B: Yeah, thank you for that. I didn't know that entire story. That's awesome. I wanna talk locking because it is my favorite style of dance. And how did I get so lucky to intercept you at a time in my life? I was 18, just moved to LA. Marty Koudelka connected us because you were taking his class all the time, trying to take.
[00:34:13] Speaker A: But if you don't know, please, please, Go on. I would stand there like a deer caught in headlights in the back. The first always in the back. Cause I let all of you guys hustle and elbow each other. Two's gonna be in front to get Marty's attention.
Like in every ballet class, always the best are in the front. It's all the same, no matter where. Street dance class, it's the same thing. The first eight counts I could get. And I thought, oh, I can get this. And then the first eight counts was just a breath of what was to come. And I just stood there.
I mean, he taught it so fast.
[00:34:56] Speaker B: And it was evenly challenging.
[00:34:58] Speaker A: It's designed to look easy. So I would grab you. This is why you started to come over to my house.
We were using CDs at the time. I would grab you, I would make you come to my house. We would turn on the CD, I would slow it down, and you would.
[00:35:16] Speaker B: Like 50% crazy or more.
[00:35:20] Speaker A: Or more. I remember.
And she would teach me the combo. She would teach me this combo really slow.
The first deer in the headlights was Tuesday, and I had to get it by Thursday.
We would so Wednesday. So I'm telling you, I was up till all hours of the night.
[00:35:44] Speaker B: Do you still have that? Yes. You do?
[00:35:46] Speaker A: I do.
[00:35:47] Speaker B: Player over here, that has pitch control.
[00:35:48] Speaker A: So that I could stand in the front. Yes, do that damn combination.
[00:35:54] Speaker B: Listen, I need you all to know, anybody who can recall what Neo Addicted to Sex, what that song sounds like. I need you to imagine it at like 25% speed. Oh, and I said pitch control with no pitch control. So it's not his normal sounding voice. It's like.
[00:36:14] Speaker A: No.
[00:36:18] Speaker B: It'S so funny. I can hear it right now as I'm just thinking about it. I cherish those times. But in exchange, you would teach me some locking foundation. And so I'm so lucky to have intercepted you at that time. Because I, you know, coming from ballet, tap, jazz, lyrical, modern, zero exposure to social dances, zero exposure to street dances.
[00:36:40] Speaker A: Yeah. Street dance is still the best kept secret in show business because it's huge. It's huge all over the world. It's just the battles are not huge here because the kids can't get to them. That's why. That's why. Whereas in Paris, like just a boot, Germany takes 50 bucks to get from Germany to France. Or, you know, it's so easy to get around, you know.
And for here, the battles are either in la, some in San Francisco, a few in New York, but that's it. And I mean, to get from la To New York is not like from going from Germany to Paris. It's a five hour flight that costs you money in a hotel. Really. The dancers here in America make money doing choreography. They make money getting on Justin's tours and doing tours like that. So that's where you go. I mean, I understand if you can have street of any sort in your back pocket, you got a better shot at getting the job. That's for sure.
[00:37:43] Speaker B: I can't. Oh, man. I want to go eight different directions right now. I want to say that one of my favorite things about you as a choreographer is that you understand how quickly you can work when there's already a vocabulary of like locking vocabulary. You can create out of six freestylers in a one hour rehearsal, a full piece that is in unison when it needs to be or. And fully improvised. I think you know how to work with freestylers better than anyone else. And you make them look great because you have them do what they do instead of trying to make them do what dance choreography.
[00:38:23] Speaker A: Kids do. Well, you know, my aunt's opening act, my mother's opening act.
You can see it on the Ed. From the Ed Sullivan Show. You can see that act. No one danced in unison. And they were all came out as separate, like separate characters. And there were separate sections to their act. And everybody had a specialty.
[00:38:42] Speaker B: They do their thing and then people.
[00:38:44] Speaker A: Cheer and then the next person does, right? So. And that was not unlike what would happen in vaudeville. So I understood that it was baked in for you. I totally understood that. And why.
I mean, you've got to let Don Campbell just dance, right? You know, don't tell him what to do. Don't tell. Tell them what to do. I mean, really, the trick in working with the great improvisational dancers is giving them back what they do. In the same way in working with a Bowie or Bette Midler or Tina Turner or Elvis or Elvis. You give them back what they do. You just make them look as great as possible. You know, you don't.
You don't mess with that. You don't really mess with that.
[00:39:28] Speaker B: I have a huge soft spot for Elvis and the period the end. Is that how. Let's talk like specifically about Viva Las Vegas. So you start assisting David Winters, which.
[00:39:40] Speaker A: I will talk about, which I met. I met Initiation by Fire. I did Terry Garr and myself. Terry Garr, the movie star and myself met. She was 17, I was 18. We got through God knows how. We went to this cattle call of. And I. We didn't know each other for the Play. They were re putting together west side Story. West side Story. The George Shakaris with David Winters, Chita Rivera. So what people don't know is the west side Story. The movie is almost the same dancers that did the Broadway show in the 50s. So they were putting that back on. And there was only two parts open because they were using all the original people. George was in this. Cheetah was in this.
[00:40:25] Speaker B: And they're looking for two women.
[00:40:27] Speaker A: They're looking for Velma and Baby John's girl.
[00:40:31] Speaker B: And it's a cattle call.
[00:40:32] Speaker A: There's like 500 people. Neither of us got a callback.
She found out about the callback and went to the callback. Cause Terry had ambition, and I was.
[00:40:47] Speaker B: A way to put that.
[00:40:47] Speaker A: And David Winters decided to try to pick me up because those straight guys go to those auditions looking for girls, as we all know.
And he came up to me and he said, hi, I'm in the show.
Why don't you give me your number? I went, oh, you're in the show. And I gave him my number. That worked. I gave him my number. And about a week or so later, I was in the bathtub. I got a call. Hi, I'm David Winters. Do you remember me? Yes. He said, look, there's still a part open. If you can get over to Yucca and Vine. There was a dance studio, I think it was Rainbow up on Yuck and Vine. You should re audition. And I went and I auditioned and I got the part. And that was. I don't know how Terry and I got this, but it was initiation by fire. We were in Cool with the real people. That really did.
[00:41:38] Speaker B: There is a clip of this as well. I will share this.
[00:41:40] Speaker A: We did. We were in.
Oh, there's a great clip on my channel of me talking to David winners about how he developed. I will link to all of these solo.
[00:41:53] Speaker B: Oh, my God.
[00:41:54] Speaker A: Of Cool, which is one of the greatest solos ever in movies.
[00:41:58] Speaker B: Bones. Just thinking about it.
[00:42:00] Speaker A: And he's phenomenal how he and Jerry Robbins created this solo. Yeah, it's. It's incredible to. To hear him. How they worked on it is the best merger of acting and dance. It is seamless. It is absolutely seamless. So we were with these people.
We were with these people. So, I mean, between crazy show business, family and my first job with these people, you know, it was fantastic.
Those guys came from Jerry Robbins Ballets usa. They were the greatest dancers of that era. So, yeah. And I wasn't so bad myself.
[00:42:42] Speaker B: I know. I've watched this clip And I can't wait to share it. Okay, so giving Elvis. Elvis I knew I started helping Austin Butler do some audition prep a year before he was cast in the film. And at that point, I asked you, I was like, you've worked with this guy. What was that like?
[00:43:03] Speaker A: Certainly you didn't work with Austin.
[00:43:05] Speaker B: Working with Elvis.
[00:43:06] Speaker A: Oh, working with Elvis.
[00:43:06] Speaker B: The real thing.
[00:43:08] Speaker A: Because I worked with Austin once upon a time in Hollywood.
[00:43:12] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:43:12] Speaker A: So he worked with me a little before he worked with you, but I worked with, like, three other guys also that we're auditioning for that part.
[00:43:20] Speaker B: Smart motherfuckers.
[00:43:21] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:43:22] Speaker B: I talked to Anita Mann also. Like, what was he like? Was he very choreographed? Was he not? And she was like, what do you think? And I was like, well, yeah, he's rock and roll. It doesn't make any sense that somebody would say, you're gonna go 5, 6, 7, 8.
I am curious about what it was like translating movement information to him in Viva Las Vegas, the one where you're in the red dress, and he has, like. Has to sing a song, has to interact with Ann. They have moments, beats by beats, and then he has to throw focus to you. Like, there were things that he needed to do consistently.
[00:43:55] Speaker A: Yeah, well, he was a talented star for a reason. He was brilliant. Of course, all these people, from Aboe to BET to Elvis to Tina, they are not stars just because they're stars, because they're brilliant and they have a work ethic and they care about their legacy. They care. They care, and they like what they do. They all like what they do. They all liked it. Nobody moaned and groaned. Everybody showed up on time and stayed longer than they needed, you know, so Elvis also had a dance in, and I was Anne's dance in. Elvis's Dance Inn was very talented. Lance Legault. And he could also sing and play guitar, so. And with David, we would kind of work out what they would do, and, you know, we would leave these spaces for Elvis to do Elvis and, you know, Ann to do Ann and just kind of, you know, brought it together. And we never taught Elvis and Ann the routine together. We always taught them the routine separately so that when they came together, they already knew the routine. They didn't need to be tripping about, am I gonna learn this fast?
[00:45:08] Speaker B: Am I gonna look each other, try to find it?
[00:45:10] Speaker A: No, you try to make things easy for people.
You try to put them in a position where they can shine, not where they can be terrified, for God's sakes.
[00:45:20] Speaker B: Right. I love that. Thank you for that. Listener Viewer.
Such a helpful hint.
[00:45:26] Speaker A: It's not about tricking the dancer.
[00:45:28] Speaker B: Yeah. The timing of that, when movement information is introduced and in front of whom is so important.
[00:45:35] Speaker A: Yeah. Some respect. Yeah.
[00:45:38] Speaker B: Okay, can we jump back to the lockers now, 70s I have every outfit.
[00:45:42] Speaker A: You know, I want to see them.
[00:45:43] Speaker B: Can I just snap my fingers and one will appear?
[00:45:45] Speaker A: Absolutely.
Okay, So I just realized, do I have. I don't have my polka dot gloves in here, but.
[00:45:53] Speaker B: Oh, yes, they're attached at the bottom.
[00:45:54] Speaker A: Oh, they're attached. They're attached gloves.
[00:46:00] Speaker B: Basil, you taught me the importance of gloves.
[00:46:02] Speaker A: And I have the original socks. I don't have the shoes. And you'll see that outfit. And also I have the hat, and I have all my locker hats.
[00:46:17] Speaker B: Okay, I want to know everything about these hats. How do they say, hold on, where do you get them?
[00:46:22] Speaker A: Hold on, hold on there.
[00:46:24] Speaker B: Can I have one?
[00:46:24] Speaker A: There's that. There's that hat. There's that hat. This hat is Greg's original hat. Because I would use Greg's hat as the, you know, the pattern.
[00:46:36] Speaker B: Ah, wait, you made them?
[00:46:37] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, this. Wait a minute. We bought the original ones in a store. Let's call Slim. Hold on. Let's call Slim.
[00:46:47] Speaker B: Cause Slim knows where you got this.
[00:46:48] Speaker A: Call Slim sell new.
[00:46:49] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, cool.
[00:46:50] Speaker A: Slim used to make his own Call Slim sell new.
[00:46:55] Speaker B: Slim the robot is joining our podcast via cell phone. Via Tony Basil's cell phone. No big deal.
[00:47:00] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah.
[00:47:02] Speaker B: Slammy.
[00:47:03] Speaker A: Okay, I'm just calling you because I can never remember the name of the original shop that we got the pizza hats.
[00:47:14] Speaker C: New York hat store.
[00:47:18] Speaker A: New York hat store. 7th and Maine. Now did that. What else did the hat store have?
[00:47:25] Speaker C: New York head store had soups. Knickers.
[00:47:28] Speaker A: Oh, they did?
[00:47:29] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:47:30] Speaker A: And that's where the original knickers. Where we got the original knickers.
[00:47:34] Speaker C: Yeah, we got from there. And the other place was on Los Angeles street. It was an Italian knit store.
[00:47:41] Speaker A: What it's called Italian knit sweaters and stuff. Tag and knit store. Okay. Yeah, because. And then once I got the pattern from Greg's hat, then I would make my hats to go with my outfits.
[00:47:59] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:47:59] Speaker A: And then I would.
[00:48:01] Speaker C: Although it was the same one from New York hat. He used to go to the army surplus right there on, I want to say La Brea and Santa Monica. Yeah, the military surplus store there.
[00:48:14] Speaker A: They had the pizza hat. No.
[00:48:16] Speaker C: Yeah, no, that's where the baggies came from.
[00:48:19] Speaker A: Well, the baggies came later, though. We wore. We wore knickers before the baggies worth of knickers.
[00:48:24] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:48:25] Speaker A: Okay. Thank you. I knew you'd know.
New York hat store. Thank you.
[00:48:30] Speaker B: Slim. Hi, Slim.
[00:48:32] Speaker A: Slim from the. From the lockers. The original lockers.
[00:48:36] Speaker B: I'm good, I'm good.
[00:48:37] Speaker A: It's good to hear your voice. We'll send you the podcast.
[00:48:41] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:48:42] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:48:43] Speaker C: Thank you.
[00:48:45] Speaker A: I knew he'd know.
[00:48:46] Speaker B: That's the best. Thank you for that. That was very cool. So the who's who in here.
[00:48:50] Speaker A: So this is the original lockers. This is the. This is. This is the people. So sh.
Who eventually went on to do Electric Boogaloo and Breaking the Movies. Our movie star Fred Berry's also in the front.
He went on to star as Rerun in what's happening. Greg Kambilock Jr. S on the left. Don Campbell is behind Fred Barry. And Don, of course, is the creator of our dance called the Campbell Lock. And then I'm behind there, and Flukey is looking at himself in the mirror. And Slim, which we just talked to, is on the outside edge.
[00:49:31] Speaker B: Thank you for that.
[00:49:32] Speaker A: And that is the Magnificent Seven, as Shabadu used to call us. It's incredible. Yeah, we were.
[00:49:38] Speaker B: I can feel like looking at this is the most fun I've had in a long time just looking at this.
And that's the fit.
[00:49:46] Speaker A: Yeah. Except I realize that I wasn't wearing the striped pants. I was probably wearing this with striped pants on a different show because I loved. I loved this jacket, and I could actually fit into it.
[00:49:59] Speaker B: Tell me about the tassels on the shoes. When did you get that idea? Because you performed this song when Reebop on I Like Tassels.
[00:50:07] Speaker A: You had, like, pom poms. And I used pom poms on the shoes of Mickey, too.
[00:50:13] Speaker B: Do you remember where you. Where that came from?
[00:50:14] Speaker A: Where's that? Where's my Mickey? Oh, outfit. I think I've got pom poms on that, too.
[00:50:19] Speaker B: This is the Mickey outfit, Tony Basil.
[00:50:21] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.
I have everything.
I have.
[00:50:27] Speaker B: Okay. So not only are you a historian, but your home is a museum. That is curious.
[00:50:32] Speaker A: Yes. Oh, see, I have little pom poms and then big pom poms on the shoes. That you will see.
[00:50:38] Speaker B: Yes. This is riveting.
[00:50:41] Speaker A: Oh, yeah.
Oh, and where's the little pom poms? It was. Well, there's. You know what? They've fallen off, so we'll have to put some more on.
[00:50:50] Speaker B: But they were on the shoulders. Here's. Oh, what is this? Oh.
[00:50:53] Speaker A: Oh, it's my. It's a little duck.
[00:50:54] Speaker B: It's a little bluebird on your shoulder.
[00:50:56] Speaker A: Of course.
[00:50:56] Speaker B: Quit it. Yes. Are you seeing this right now?
[00:51:00] Speaker A: That's. That's the. The video.
And that's the letter sweater.
That's LVHS head cheerleader.
[00:51:08] Speaker B: Okay. Which is a real thing. So you started cheering when you were in Vegas?
[00:51:12] Speaker A: I started cheering when I was in Chicago when I was going to a private school. We didn't have cheerleaders, but I made cheerleaders. We had no team.
[00:51:20] Speaker B: You invented street dance.
[00:51:21] Speaker A: We had no team. We had no team, but we had cheerleaders. Incredible. Get it. And I remember once we went to Boys Latin School, which was another private school that was having a basketball event. And we walked in and we cheered, because if you don't walk in and go for it.
[00:51:41] Speaker B: Yeah. What are you doing?
[00:51:42] Speaker A: It's not gonna happen.
[00:51:43] Speaker B: End. Big fill in the middle.
[00:51:45] Speaker A: Yes. You have to plant the seed. Plant the seed. Get the outfit ready.
[00:51:50] Speaker B: Get the outfit ready. Get the outfit ready. That's another thing about you that really speaks to me.
[00:51:53] Speaker A: Plant the seed. Get the outfit ready. Don't expect to be wearing the outfit for another couple of years. Cause the seed needs to grow. The seed needs to grow. But eventually it all comes together.
[00:52:05] Speaker B: Okay. Great segue, Tony. Let's talk about the David Bowie seed growing. Because if I remember correctly, one David Bowie flew you out to London to see a show of his or to see him in a show.
[00:52:19] Speaker A: Just to meet. No, I was flown out to meet him. He had the same agent that I did, and I was a choreographer also because I had done all the choreography in the 60s before the lockers, for all the films.
[00:52:35] Speaker B: All the. For all the films and commercials and things, too. Right. It wasn't just film.
[00:52:39] Speaker A: I don't think we did it. Oh, no, I don't think. We didn't do a commercial. We did movies. We did movies, okay. We did movies and TV shows, okay. In the 60s.
And so I was flown out to meet him, and he sent me over to see a little show that was in the West End called the Rocky Horror Show.
[00:53:02] Speaker B: The fucking Rocky Horror Picture Show.
[00:53:05] Speaker A: And I saw it live with Tim Curry and all these people, and that was like. That was like another. It was like, you know, you see. You sit in the movie theater by yourself, and you see George De Karis walking towards you with that big alysicant kick, and you're never the same. You see James Brown on the Tammy show doing that step, and. And you think you can dance, and you realize.
[00:53:30] Speaker B: Nope, back to the drawing board.
[00:53:32] Speaker A: Nope, back to the drawing board. Like With George, and you see Rocky Horror show, and you go, wow. I studied a lot of acting and improvisational acting, but ay, ay, ay, ay, yai, Tim Curry. So. Oh, oh, oh, baby.
So genius.
[00:53:53] Speaker B: Genius.
[00:53:54] Speaker A: Oh, really? A genius.
[00:53:55] Speaker B: Okay, okay. So that's when you met. And then how did your creative relationship evolve?
[00:53:59] Speaker A: Well, we talked creatively because I was very much into improvisational movement because I studied the Grotowski Method and I studied with Sam Blaser, which were the people that kind of did this type of theater called the Living Theater, Open theater. And I loved that Open Theater. Living Theater was something. When I saw Frankenstein, I could have run away with that circus also. And that was all, like, improvisational movements simultaneously.
African at the Greek Theater, which was like Follies Bazaar, which. It was like a Broadway show, or what now is like a Vegas show, except it was all African dance, all African musicians. I mean, it was crazy.
And I was doing improvisational and seeing this African stuff. And I was brought out to see David, and we. David was a mime, and so we kind of knew the same vocabulary. So we had the same vocabulary. So I went back to la and I got a call saying, david wants you to come to New York and do his opening number for his show because it's not working out with the choreographer. And so I told Fred Lawrence, my agent, to make the contract. Good. Because I was going to choreograph the whole show.
I just. I knew I would. I knew I would a little chill. Cause I knew that it was. That it was right for us. And sure enough, and, you know, opening night, he gave me the program. And the program said co director Tony Basil. He gave me that gift opening night.
[00:55:43] Speaker B: Cue single tear falling from my left eye.
[00:55:46] Speaker A: Yeah, that is very cool.
[00:55:47] Speaker B: Because you did. You co created. You came with concepts, not eight counts.
[00:55:51] Speaker A: Right?
[00:55:52] Speaker B: Like you.
[00:55:52] Speaker A: Oh, no, it was all conceptual. Oh, my.
[00:55:55] Speaker B: So you were the director.
[00:55:56] Speaker A: I had to work with him. Oh, my God.
[00:56:00] Speaker B: How's this going, by the way? Am I wearing this correctly?
[00:56:02] Speaker A: Yeah, but you're not keeping it.
[00:56:06] Speaker B: Okay, well, then we better remove it now.
[00:56:08] Speaker A: No, you can keep it on. You can wear it for a while. You can dream.
[00:56:12] Speaker B: I love a girl can dream.
[00:56:14] Speaker A: Right.
[00:56:14] Speaker B: Just look at me living in your past.
Which reminds me, I do have a question about who's gonna play you in your biopic.
[00:56:21] Speaker A: I wonder. I wonder who's gearing up. You better go to your acting class and start your singing. Singing don't triple threat.
[00:56:29] Speaker B: I know my relationship with my voice is so strained.
[00:56:32] Speaker A: Where Were we Bowie?
[00:56:35] Speaker B: But I also want to talk about. And we can start wrapping this up. I want people to know what makes you you. And I think one of the things that we haven't talked about yet is that you had all this training, but you were never, like, didn't have great feet as a ballerina.
[00:56:49] Speaker A: Oh, my God. Didn't have sickle.
[00:56:52] Speaker B: Didn't have.
[00:56:52] Speaker A: I have. I have pictures of me as a child doing these 42 fouettes. Single, double, single, double on a sickle foot.
Okay, but, but, but I could turn and leap. I had no extension.
[00:57:09] Speaker B: You could do more than that. You could perform.
[00:57:12] Speaker A: Oh, well. But that came from, you know, your life.
Came from your life from seeing Pearl Bailey on the stage.
[00:57:20] Speaker B: But David Winters has it too. When he's on screen. He was no one else.
[00:57:24] Speaker A: Yes, it was very interesting when I would watch them work on. When I watched the guys work on. Cool.
[00:57:34] Speaker B: Yeah, Talk about that. I'll just shut up over here.
[00:57:36] Speaker A: And. And I thought, how interesting. David does not kick the highest, but I can't, you know. And at that time, period, you said, you gotta kick the highest, but I can't take my eyes off of him. And I realized he was dancing. There was. It was as an actor. And that's why I interviewed him about creating. Creating that short 22nd, 15second little routine. And cool that he and Jerry.
[00:58:10] Speaker B: It punches you in the jaw. It knocks me out.
[00:58:12] Speaker A: It's so incredible. And to hear him talk about it was really wonderful.
[00:58:18] Speaker B: What do you think it is about that you have in common with him, that you have in common with Elvis, That Tina and Bet? Cause none of them are perfect technicians. None of them are like the best vocally.
[00:58:34] Speaker A: Well, they're all special and unique and they have charisma and star power. And they have a work ethic that is unbelievable. A work ethic. Work ethic. But they are the best at what they do. There is nobody better than Tina Turner. There is nobody better than David Bowie. I mean, there's what Elvis. Give me a break. I mean, and in their genre, in their genre, there really isn't anybody better, so.
[00:59:03] Speaker B: Right, right, right.
[00:59:04] Speaker A: You know, it's.
[00:59:05] Speaker B: Yeah. Not to say that they weren't great at all, but I'm just trying to put my finger on that je ne sais quoi, that, like, thirst for life, which is why at your age, at Beth's age, at Tina's age, are still fucking doing the thing. Like, what is that? How do people do that?
[00:59:28] Speaker A: Well, I find dance as a drug. I mean, like, I Just did a class with Hurricane Great Locker, who was in town. And I was high the whole night afterwards. It raised my serotonin level and I got ideas and. Oh, you know. Cause now that I can't spin down to the ground and I can't do those hop turns, I'm always looking for just. Oh, just little things to replace the big things to somehow, somehow pull the wool. Somehow pull the wool over everyone's eyes. And yet again.
Well, you keep tricking us, Basil. Yes, well, making viral shit. Vaudeville. It's also the vaudeville.
And, you know, and this is not about them, but it's about when record companies call me and say, how long will it take you to teach my client to dance like you? Well, hopefully not right away. You know, I spent a lot of time also not on those stars, but on other people making singers really look like they can dance really. Or look like they can perform or look like they can do the steps, picking the steps for them. Now I am that singer looking for ways.
I'm the choreographer for this singer who's not dancing so well anymore. How to pull the.
[01:00:48] Speaker B: Solving the riddle.
[01:00:49] Speaker A: How to solve that little riddle.
[01:00:51] Speaker B: I hear from a lot of people, they feel like they are pulled in too many directions.
[01:00:57] Speaker A: I'm pulled in a lot of directions.
[01:00:59] Speaker B: And you can make it work.
[01:01:00] Speaker A: Well, I mean, I have no choice. I have no choice. I have to. You know, I just put up a record on streaming platforms called Breakaway.
[01:01:12] Speaker B: We listened to it on our way.
[01:01:13] Speaker A: Here that I recorded in 1966.
[01:01:17] Speaker B: Is it the first thing you ever recorded?
[01:01:19] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, in 1966. Just now acquired the master in a crazy way. Somebody called me up from Australia, said, we want to do a vinyl, a Breakaway, but we can't find the owner because we called up A and M Records. They told us to go to Universal. Universal said, we don't have her contract, we don't have the master, it's reverted back to her. So they called me to tell me it's reverted back to me. I thought, get that in writing. Get that in writing.
So when was 1966? And what's 20, 25? How many years later?
[01:01:54] Speaker B: Math.
We'll pop it up on the screen.
[01:01:57] Speaker A: How many years later.
So you plant the seed. Talk about a slow growing seed.
[01:02:04] Speaker B: And patience. And don't leave. That's the part of the David Winter story you didn't say about the west side Story audition.
[01:02:11] Speaker A: Is that. Well, Terry went back.
[01:02:13] Speaker B: He. Well, he introduced you, stuck around.
[01:02:16] Speaker A: You didn't leave. Also, he saw me. He saw me. It was And I was always an odd bird, you know, I was not the blonde. I was fabulous looking. But not a little bit like Fellini esque.
[01:02:33] Speaker B: Eccentric, exotic, different.
[01:02:36] Speaker A: Yeah. And so it was all those people that went, you know what, There's Tony Basil. And I can't tell you how many times, how many times that happened for me that made things happen. Don Campbell, the same thing. I brought a little video of him that I took from a dance contest in Orange County.
[01:02:59] Speaker B: Okay.
Of you and him together?
[01:03:02] Speaker A: No, no, of him jumping off the ceiling, you know. And then there was. He had that record and I brought it over to Dick because I had worked for Dick Clark many times. I said, look, there is this guy and this thing happening. And so I got the song on rate a record on American Bandstand. But without Don dancing and singing it. The song wasn't that song of as strong of a production.
[01:03:27] Speaker B: The song meaning being the Camelock.
[01:03:29] Speaker A: The song the Camelock without Don performing wasn't a hit. It was not that strong of a production.
[01:03:36] Speaker B: Well, none of those Rufus Thomas records would have been a hit without the dances.
[01:03:39] Speaker A: Well, Rufus. Rufus Thomas production was pretty funkin good.
[01:03:43] Speaker B: Okay? I can't recall any other than the Twist.
[01:03:46] Speaker A: Rufus Thomas wasn't the Twist. The twist was. Was. The Twist was introduced by Chubby Checker.
[01:03:53] Speaker B: So what did he do?
[01:03:54] Speaker A: But the Twist was originally written by. Oh yeah, this is good.
[01:03:58] Speaker B: Good, good, good. Come on, you got this.
[01:04:00] Speaker A: You got this.
[01:04:03] Speaker B: We've got devices.
[01:04:05] Speaker A: He also wrote Finger Popping Time. He also wrote Annie Had a Baby.
[01:04:10] Speaker B: There it is.
[01:04:11] Speaker A: Hank Ballard. Hank Ballard, who wrote very blue songs at the time. Like they would call the racy records. They would be. Annie Had a Baby. Then Annie Had a Baby. She Can't Work no More.
That was that song. So Dick Clark heard from another DJ that there was this dance called the.
The Twist that.
Oh, duh.
[01:04:39] Speaker B: I feel like such an asshole.
[01:04:40] Speaker A: The dance called the Twist that all the kids were doing. And it was sung by Hank Ballard. But Dick, who was just starting American Bandstand, the All American Bandstand, he could not play a Hank Ballard song because Hank Ballard had this rap. And so he went and re recorded it with Chubby Checker.
[01:05:03] Speaker B: Almost the same as a fucking instant hit.
[01:05:05] Speaker A: And it was an instant hit, ladies and gentlemen. Chubby Checker doing the Twist. And it was a huge hit. And Hank. There's a video of Hank saying, when I heard it on the radio, I thought it was me. I thought it was me. And then I realized that I had that experience with seeing Tina well, seeing who played Tina in Let's Love Got to Do with It.
[01:05:30] Speaker B: Oh, my God.
[01:05:31] Speaker A: Okay. Anyway, on mtv, there was her doing Disco Inferno.
[01:05:40] Speaker B: Angela Bassett.
[01:05:41] Speaker A: Angela Bassett. Well, I didn't. I was watching television, mtv, and I saw what I thought was Tina for that moment. I saw my choreography. I saw Disco Inferno, and I realized, oh, my God, that's Angela Bassett rehearsing for the movie. And Michael Peters was one of Tina's dancers, the second group of dancers that we used when Tina left Ike.
[01:06:10] Speaker B: And did he choreograph that film?
[01:06:11] Speaker A: And he choreographed what's Going On.
[01:06:13] Speaker B: Did you ever. But your choreography is in the film, right?
[01:06:16] Speaker A: Yeah, it's my choreography.
[01:06:18] Speaker B: Did you ever get payment for that?
[01:06:20] Speaker A: No. Did you get payment? Who gets payment?
[01:06:23] Speaker B: We're working on it.
[01:06:24] Speaker A: Who does the acid inter. Who does that?
[01:06:28] Speaker B: Upset stomach, diarrhea.
[01:06:29] Speaker A: Who does that? Does she get. He get paid every time they redo that with a different person?
[01:06:36] Speaker B: No.
[01:06:36] Speaker A: Was that in the contract? Cause if it wasn't in the contract, most choreographers.
[01:06:42] Speaker B: Contracts still say work.
[01:06:43] Speaker A: Tina owns that. Really? Tina owns her choreography. Tina choreographed all of the Ikettes.
Tina's was that. That's real cool. That's really some of my favorite stuff there in the incredible. Some of the greatest stuff in the world.
But she wanted a little bit different for when she left Ike. She wanted two girls, two guys. She didn't want three. Oh, my God.
[01:07:05] Speaker B: This is amazing.
You were propositioned by Tina to choreograph for her, but she said, I'm not in a position. I can't pay for that. And you bartered a trade swap.
[01:07:18] Speaker A: I bartered a singing lesson in exchange.
[01:07:22] Speaker B: For choreography with Tina Turner. All right, thanks for tuning in, everybody. I'm Dana. This is Words that Move Me. That's the coolest thing you've ever heard. I'm just like, that's your life.
[01:07:32] Speaker A: What the fuck?
[01:07:33] Speaker B: And by the way, Rufus Thomas, walk the dog. Do the funky chicken. The breakdown, which is one of the dances you taught me that I absolutely obsessed with.
[01:07:41] Speaker A: The push and pull.
[01:07:42] Speaker B: The push and pull.
[01:07:43] Speaker A: The dog.
[01:07:44] Speaker B: Yeah. Okay, cool. Ready for the final round of Words that Move Me Podcast.
[01:07:47] Speaker A: There's more.
[01:07:48] Speaker B: It's a rapid fire. I call it wrist roll with it, so you're gonna love it.
Answer from the gut. You ready?
[01:07:54] Speaker A: The wrist roll came from Don, not from rolling dice.
[01:07:57] Speaker B: Thank you. The wrist roll is also my dog's name.
She is so sad that she can't.
[01:08:03] Speaker A: Be here because she's got a tail.
[01:08:05] Speaker B: That goes like this.
[01:08:06] Speaker A: Yeah, like a wrist roll. She's awfully cute.
[01:08:08] Speaker B: Okay, coffee or tea?
[01:08:10] Speaker A: Oh, it's a lot of coffee.
[01:08:12] Speaker B: Dogs or cats?
[01:08:14] Speaker A: Well, cats.
[01:08:16] Speaker B: How many cats do you have?
[01:08:17] Speaker A: 5.
[01:08:18] Speaker B: What are their names?
[01:08:20] Speaker A: Caravaggio. The best cat Jackson. Good cat Sushi. The very shy, shy cat Missy who lives in this studio. And now Mr. Pumpkin, who's orange. Who is an orange brat who needs to be the feral cat who needs to be fixed, who comes at me and hisses while he asks for food. It's like a simultaneous.
[01:08:48] Speaker B: What do you call him?
[01:08:49] Speaker A: Mr. Pumpkin. He looks just like a pumpkin.
[01:08:51] Speaker B: He does. Mr. Pumpkin, what is your favorite dance move?
[01:08:54] Speaker A: Whatever's happening next.
[01:08:58] Speaker B: No big deal. Just the best answer to that question ever. Do you have a least favorite move? Like a move that if somebody asked you to do it, you would just say no.
[01:09:06] Speaker A: I don't know what that means.
[01:09:10] Speaker B: Also the best answer to that question. Like, for me, it's a C jump. The one that you're doing in that. I hate that move. It pains me. Oh, oh, that move.
[01:09:19] Speaker A: But you see. Wait a minute. Stop the music.
Nobody's asking me to do steps.
[01:09:27] Speaker B: Okay, okay, okay. How about a step that you watch that you're like, oh, oh, please don't do that.
[01:09:34] Speaker A: Oh, that's everything. That's everything. I mean, I love everything and every. I love everything that I can't do. And I love when I see things I can't do, I go crazy. I love it.
[01:09:45] Speaker B: But what do you not love anything?
[01:09:47] Speaker A: I think when you. Whatever genre I'm looking at, I like it to be.
If you're doing ballet, I love the feet to be pointed, you know? And if you're doing street, I love it to be funky. I like all that, you know.
[01:10:01] Speaker B: Okay, this is turning into less rapid fire. There's a photo of you and David Byrne. We're gonna pop it up on the screen.
The background is red. You're wearing a black tutu. You're in pointe shoes. You're on a four stars.
[01:10:12] Speaker A: It's the COVID of Dance magazine.
[01:10:13] Speaker B: Tell me the story behind that shot. This is also not rapid fire.
[01:10:17] Speaker A: It was, you know, it was the last. It was going to be and it was the last magazine that Bill Como did for Dance magazine.
[01:10:25] Speaker B: Wow.
[01:10:26] Speaker A: I don't know. I guess they were just making a left hand turn.
[01:10:31] Speaker B: A departure.
[01:10:31] Speaker A: A departure. Yeah, yeah. As also Bill Cuomo who did After Dark magazine, also that I was on the COVID of, but Bill Cuomo, thanks to Viola Fisher or Viola Swisher, who lived in the La Brea area, got the lockers picture In Dance magazine.
[01:10:59] Speaker B: That's right.
[01:11:00] Speaker A: And we were the first people that were not ballet dancers that were in point shoe.
[01:11:05] Speaker B: Advertisement yes.
[01:11:06] Speaker A: And she said to me, now listen, if you go into New York, you go to Bill Como's office and you sit there and you thank him personally for running that picture, okay? So I was in New York. I had just. We had rehearsed the Diamond Dogs tour with David. We had just gone to Philadelphia to open it up. I was just back in New York, and I was sitting in that office and I said, I'm Tony Basil, da, da, da. And she said, well, I'll tell him. And I said, no, I'll wait while he's in a long meeting. I said, I don't mind. I'll just sit here and wait. Because Viola's. I'm hearing her voices in your head saying. And then somebody peeked around the corner, this was after 15 minutes. And said, are you. You're Tony Basil? He said, yes. Did you do the David Bowie Diamond Dogs tour?
I said, yes. Disappears. Then two people rush in with entourage, come in. The guy sitting in with Bill Cuomo had just seen the Diamond Dogs show in Philadelphia, which was groundbreaking, really groundbreaking.
Filmed the whole show. You can see. Yes, you can. Yes, you can.
[01:12:28] Speaker B: That's the one you co directed?
[01:12:29] Speaker A: Yes, that's the one. And they said, oh, my God, come in. And they said, we're going to do an article on you. We're going to do pictures on you. I got the. This is like. This is like. You sit there and you wait, Tony. This is the theme. You sit there. This is the theme. And you wait. You sit there and you wait and you plant the seed. And I mean, who would have dreamed that, me thanking them for running the picture of the lockers, that these people would be in that room at that time. Now, I have fallen through the cracks also. I have missed things. I have fallen through the cracks. But every now and then you're rewarded for writing. Every now and then, it all comes. You get the outfit together, you plant the seed, and you wait for it to grow.
[01:13:19] Speaker B: I can't think of a better place to end it than that. But I'm a bad host. So I'm gonna ask one more question. Do you remember in your shang shopping.
[01:13:28] Speaker A: A to G, good girl, shop, bad girl, shop, shopping. Why is that not a commercial?
Why is that not a commercial for Target? For. Thank you. Let's ask the people. Yes, it really should be.
[01:13:42] Speaker B: Here's my question. Because I did a dance to that as a tiny baby child.
[01:13:46] Speaker A: Oh, you did. Do you have a video?
[01:13:47] Speaker B: I was eating.
[01:13:48] Speaker A: Oh, you were.
[01:13:49] Speaker B: I was eggplant. Do you remember all the Alphabet? A, apple, B, banana.
[01:13:54] Speaker A: I, I, I kind of do.
[01:13:56] Speaker B: I re recorded it.
[01:13:57] Speaker A: You know what? Yeah. I re. Well, that's when I.
[01:13:59] Speaker B: Is that also streaming? Yes. Okay. We're gonna.
[01:14:03] Speaker A: I re recorded that at the same time I re recorded Mickey.
[01:14:08] Speaker B: Okay.
[01:14:08] Speaker A: So that I see money from those songs instead of the other people seeing.
[01:14:13] Speaker B: Money singing that shit on and put it on repeat.
[01:14:15] Speaker A: A, apple, B, bananas.
[01:14:18] Speaker B: C, cat food. It's D, dog food. That's for sure.
[01:14:21] Speaker A: Yes. I, I don't. I don't.
[01:14:23] Speaker B: You don't remember? Well, you, listener, viewer, are gonna have to go find out.
[01:14:26] Speaker A: It's a really cute video that's on my YouTube channel.
[01:14:28] Speaker B: I don't. I don't think I've seen that one. I mean, I've watched myself many times, but I don't think you've seen it. I'm sorry. I have been pretty well prepared for this conversation.
[01:14:39] Speaker A: I'm aghast.
[01:14:41] Speaker B: Maybe I'm not number one. Number one fan. I just got demoted.
[01:14:44] Speaker A: You haven't seen that video? Well, I re recorded it. And it fits like a glove in the original video. As does my re record of Mickey Fit like a glove in my viral video.
[01:14:55] Speaker B: I'm including it in the show notes. I'm including this performance that you did. Wham. Rebop is so good. You in that black dress with your palm.
[01:15:03] Speaker A: Well, you can see that performance on my Vimeo. You have to go to my Vimeo to see that on Saturday night. It's on my Instagram.
[01:15:10] Speaker B: I reposted it on Instagram.
[01:15:11] Speaker A: Or I'm in a white dress. Oh, yeah, that's the one with your hair out.
Oh, Jerry Lewis telethon.
[01:15:19] Speaker B: And you own that mike stand.
[01:15:21] Speaker A: My spinning. My spinning. So good.
Spinning. Spin, spin, spin, spin, spin. Come back and sing.
[01:15:28] Speaker B: Right?
[01:15:28] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:15:29] Speaker B: You did that.
[01:15:31] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:15:32] Speaker B: Okay. I love you. Thank you for this. Thank you for your time and your talent and for all that you do as an example for women like me navigating this fucking crazy thing we call show business.
[01:15:43] Speaker A: Well, you do really good, Dana.
[01:15:45] Speaker B: I learned from the best.
[01:15:46] Speaker A: Okay.
[01:15:47] Speaker B: Okay. Yeah, I'll take it.
[01:15:49] Speaker A: I'll take it.
[01:15:49] Speaker B: I truly. You know, on the way over here, I was thinking about all the many things I have Marty Koudelka to thank for. And my relationship with you is at top.
[01:15:58] Speaker A: Top of that list.
Yeah.
[01:16:01] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:16:01] Speaker A: Yep. Okay.
[01:16:03] Speaker B: Yep. The end.
Like and subscribe the video. Leave a review or rating. Click the bell for notifications and go to class and take class and keep it very funky. Did you know that's my sign off? Keep it funky. Oh, go train everyone. Keep it funky. We'll talk to you later.
This podcast was produced by me with the help of many Big, big love to our Executive assistant and editor, Riley Higgins. Our Communications Manager is Fiona Small, with additional support from Ori Vajrares. Our music is by Max Winnie, logo and brand design by Bri Reese. And if you're digging the podcast, leave a review and rating and please share. Also, if you want to connect with me and the many marvelous members of the Words that Move Me community, visit Words that Move me dot com. If you're simply curious to know more about me and the work that I do outside of this podcast, visit thedanawilson.com.
