[00:00:00] Speaker A: First person I saw was you, and I knew that I was arriving at your place. I just driven my Pontiac Grand Prix.
[00:00:06] Speaker B: Down the Pontiac Grand.
[00:00:09] Speaker A: I was flooring it, by the way. I believe that you straight out of.
[00:00:12] Speaker B: Fort Collins, Colorado, and you jumped out with your Palm Quarter recording. Do you remember that you were filming as you drove?
Hello. Hello, my friend. I'm Dana. This is Words that Move Me. I have another book in my lap. This is turning into somewhat of a book review podcast. The dog is trying to get out. Everything's unhinged today. But I'm really glad you're here, because today I'm talking to one of my best friends of all time, the one and only Tony Testa. Dancer, choreographer, photographer, mixed media artist, and like, wonder of the world. This is a collection of images that are the result of a project Tony calls Black Box 1 or B1. Today we're going to talk a lot about B1, Tony's creative process, what it means to make work that has a significant contribution to dance and how you actually do that. We also go back down memory lane, way back, have a lot of laughs, a lot of nostalgia, and I think what will be a very inspiring episode for people coming up through the world of dance and other disciplines of art as well. Tony is just such a bright and shining example of what is possible when you go all in. But before we get to Tony and more B1, oh, my God. I'm, like, riveted. I want to show you every page out of this book.
Every single page. Especially a photo of Riley that she just pointed out to me because Riley features heavily in here. And I encourage you pick one of these up. We're going to talk about it later. But wins. We do wins on the podcast because a teacher of mine, an acting teacher, Gary Imhoff, who I found via Tony Testa. Gary is a podcast guest. He might be the most mentioned person on the podcast, and I wouldn't know of Gary without Tony. So this is a beautiful first full circle moment to explain why I do wins. Gary started every acting class with wins as a way of getting you to show up for yourself and celebrate what's going well. I think all too often our mind's negativity bias keeps us focused on what's not going well and where our mind goes. The body will follow, y'all. So I like to talk about wins at the very beginning of the episode because that opens us up for more winning. And this episode has so much win to it, y'all, I can't even keep it together. So I will tell you right now, my win is that I'm halfway through a script and up for a new project that I'm really excited about and noticing how much I love reading scripts. Even if there isn't a gig being dangled like a carrot on the other side of it, it's sometimes the only thing that keeps me awake. I fall asleep when I read. I can't help it. It's just a thing that happens. But I'm loving this script. I'm really excited to finish it. And even if I don't wind up working on this gig, we'll be thrilled to have read and know this story. I really am enjoying it. So maybe the current win is this script. The future win is. More scripts for me, please. I love reading in that format. It somehow feels faster. I think it is faster. Anyways, that's me. That's what's going well in my world. How about you?
All right, my friend. I'm thrilled to hear that you're winning. Please keep it up. I'm rooting for you. Loud. Loud is loud. Louder than I can go on a podcast. I'm cheering for you from the sidelines. Keep it up, okay? Speaking of being a fan and in favor of someone, I've known this guy since we were 12. I've been championing his work that whole time. Now is no different. B1 and Tony's experience with Black Box is inspiring, to say the very least. It's hard to get things made, y'all. Even more hard to get things made on your own on subjects that are important to you that the commercial world doesn't particularly care about.
Tony and I are digging into the creative process and what it means to make work that makes significant change in your life and the lives of others. And before the conversation, I want to tell you Tony is already working on B2, revision two of the black Box experience. You can get merch, including the shirt that I'm wearing in this episode. Not this shirt, but the other shirt. You can get merch online soon and you can learn more about B2 by following phone face on Instagram. P H O N E. P H A C E. I think that's it.
[00:05:12] Speaker A: Hold on.
[00:05:13] Speaker B: Let me check.
[00:05:13] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:05:14] Speaker B: P H O N E. P H A C E. You heard it here first. That's my friend, y'all. I am so wildly proud and so excited to share this conversation with Tony. I always leave conversations with him feeling inspired, enlightened, and super motivated. I think you will, too. Enjoy the one and only Tony Testa Oh, God. I feel like he always stomping his feet.
[00:05:45] Speaker A: I just feel so comfortable sitting down with you, because when I first moved to Los Angeles, the first person I saw was you, and I knew that I was arriving at your place. I just driven my Pontiac Grand Prix down Pontiac roads. I was flooring it, by the way.
[00:06:01] Speaker B: I believe that.
[00:06:02] Speaker A: Straight out of Fort Collins, Colorado.
[00:06:04] Speaker B: All 17 hours, just nine maxed out.
[00:06:07] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:06:07] Speaker B: RPMs right.
[00:06:08] Speaker A: Pulling up to Tajunga.
[00:06:09] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:06:11] Speaker A: Making a left.
[00:06:12] Speaker B: Oh, my God.
[00:06:13] Speaker A: There was your shining face waving me down. I remember in the driveway.
[00:06:17] Speaker B: I remember the white Pontiac coming around the corner.
[00:06:19] Speaker A: Frida.
[00:06:20] Speaker B: And you jumped out with your palm quarter recording. Do you remember that? You were filming. Filming as you drop. Which. Which might be. Stop me if I'm wrong, because I think of you as a little bit of an archivist. I think you and I both share this, like, penchant for keeping a journal and otherwise documenting our experience. Like, for me, now it's the podcast, but I did my Instagram dailies for a long time.
I remember you always like having a camera attached and journaling a fair bit. Is that true?
[00:06:50] Speaker A: Yep, big time.
[00:06:51] Speaker B: Do you think that your newfound.
I'll call it an infatuation. Stop me if I'm wrong with photography. Is an extension of that. Do you think of it as kind of a time capsule, or is it really, like a tool of expression?
[00:07:07] Speaker A: No, infatuation is definitely the right word. I think it's been woven into my DNA since a kid because my mom always had a camera out and was not only taking pictures of me and my brothers and our family of events and everything, but also was an incredible scrapbooker.
[00:07:23] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:07:23] Speaker A: So she was taking those photographs, cutting them up. She had all these kind of cool scissors that she would use, and she'd go to the sticker store and build these incredible scrapbooks of me and my bros and our family. So I grew up looking at the presentation of our family photos in this really creative, really multimedia kind of way.
[00:07:44] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. It is multimedia.
[00:07:46] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:07:46] Speaker B: Yeah. Our moms are in alignment with that. Actually, I cannot think of something that makes me more happy right now than knowing that both of our moms are gonna listen to this episode and probably te to me. Love you, Nancy. Love you, Stan. Can't wait to hear from you.
And actually, I wasn't planning on doing this until a little bit later in the episode, but because of that gorgeous segue, I have hidden in this book called Dance. That's a pipe cleaners book. It's all of the it's illustrated entirely by pipe cleaners. It's really amazing. You should take a look. Picked this up at the art walk at the brewery down. Brewery. Say brewery real quick.
[00:08:24] Speaker A: Brewery.
[00:08:27] Speaker B: Pick this up downtown at the art walk at smack McCrainer's house. There's an artist who just does entirely pipe cleaner things. Anyways, hidden in this book are artifacts from our past.
[00:08:38] Speaker A: Oh, boy.
[00:08:39] Speaker B: Images that we're going to talk about. But here, take a look at that first.
I'm just going to decide the order in which we recall these memories.
[00:08:46] Speaker A: We've got some good memories.
[00:08:48] Speaker B: We have good memories right here. And so many of these are because Nancy Tesna had a camera attached to her hand. Por this one taken on April 8, 2006. Do you remember this?
[00:09:03] Speaker A: Whoa.
[00:09:05] Speaker B: What do you think? Where do you think that's from?
[00:09:07] Speaker A: Whoa.
Is this. This has got to be convention.
[00:09:12] Speaker B: Huh?
[00:09:13] Speaker A: This has got to be convention. I'm assuming monsters.
[00:09:16] Speaker B: Uhhuh.
[00:09:16] Speaker A: Oh, nice.
[00:09:17] Speaker B: In Colorado.
[00:09:19] Speaker A: Whoa. To see Nico in the same shot as Gil. Whoa. This was probably the only time that those two were in the same place. My maybe took his class a few times more than that. Saw him in la. But to see Nico in this shot, is that insane? That is wild. I can't believe you have this saying.
[00:09:35] Speaker B: I have that. I can't believe I have a hard copy of it.
[00:09:37] Speaker A: Wow.
[00:09:38] Speaker B: I went. I have a photo album in the back. It's.
[00:09:40] Speaker A: Oh, my gosh.
[00:09:41] Speaker B: Chock full of gems like this next one.
Do you remember that? I think in that moment.
I think in that moment, I'm saying we have the same haircuts.
[00:09:53] Speaker A: We look like sisters here.
[00:09:55] Speaker B: The same fucking Frodo Baggins haircut. And is my favorite. Do you remember that?
[00:10:01] Speaker A: I think. I'm not sure, but I think this is NYCDA.
[00:10:05] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:10:06] Speaker A: @ the. I don't know if it was regional or if it was national level, but I think this was the moment after the. Was this after the piece I did with Mason? Yes.
[00:10:16] Speaker B: Oh, my God. Tessa. Yeah.
[00:10:18] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:10:19] Speaker B: This was after. Yeah. Baggage.
[00:10:21] Speaker A: That was a special moment.
[00:10:22] Speaker B: And I was grabbing your head and shaking it and saying, we have the same haircut. And you're brilliant. Thank you for making that thing.
[00:10:29] Speaker A: Oh, my go gosh. This is such a special moment.
[00:10:31] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:10:32] Speaker A: I love this.
[00:10:33] Speaker B: Nancy Testa for the win. Okay. What is this? I know you're gonna remember this. It's gonna come back very easily. This is one of my most cherished possessions. Cause there's a lot going on in this photo.
[00:10:45] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, I remember this one.
I Remember this one? This is probably senior year. I think you all were just about to move.
[00:10:55] Speaker B: Uh huh.
[00:10:56] Speaker A: You, Randy and Misha were just headed to Los Angeles. This is right before the Britney Spears concert.
[00:11:01] Speaker B: Yes. The four of us went to go see Britney Spears at the Pepsi Center.
And the looks were giving. Looks we were giving. Like, oh, no, we're performing tonight. We are not going to see a concert. We are in the show. We are supporting talent.
[00:11:17] Speaker A: And I love that. For authenticity, I just decided to throw my dad's blazed orange hunting vest on right at the end.
[00:11:24] Speaker B: Oh my God, it's so rich.
Okay, I'm gonna save that one for last. This one's just. This one's amazing for a couple reasons. I, I, I'm 99. Sure I know where this came from.
This is one of my favorite photos of us.
This is the beginning of you understanding that.
[00:11:46] Speaker A: Whoa.
[00:11:46] Speaker B: Photography and how to make a captivating image.
[00:11:49] Speaker A: Okay, this one, I don't know.
[00:11:51] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:11:52] Speaker A: I do not know where we were when this one was happening. I can guess a bit about what was going on in my life, but I do not know where this image was taken.
[00:12:00] Speaker B: Okay. I'm thinking that was Tammy Faye's birthday party at Saddle Ranch. Did you go to one of those?
At least as close to those photos in my photo album.
[00:12:13] Speaker A: It's got to be the time frame. It's like, that's got to be the time frame. I don't recall the Saddle Ranch, but I recall this jacket.
[00:12:19] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:12:20] Speaker A: And I recall your hair when it was this, when it was blonde.
[00:12:24] Speaker B: I've had two blonde phases now everybody has.
[00:12:27] Speaker A: And I, and I recall my argyle beanie phase as well.
[00:12:32] Speaker B: Bring it back. Bring it back.
Wow. Yeah. That was real.
[00:12:37] Speaker A: Wow. Oh, I love this picture.
[00:12:39] Speaker B: I do. It's wonderful. That might need to go on the gallery wall, actually.
[00:12:42] Speaker A: Very good.
[00:12:42] Speaker B: Okay, you ready for another Good.
[00:12:45] Speaker A: Hit me.
[00:12:45] Speaker B: This one is really, really exciting for me. Maybe my fondest, definitely my fondest carnival experience.
[00:12:55] Speaker A: Oh, the Key Club.
[00:12:58] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:12:58] Speaker A: Okay. This was a moment.
[00:13:00] Speaker B: Yeah, let's talk about it.
[00:13:01] Speaker A: This was a moment.
[00:13:02] Speaker B: So let's talk about it.
[00:13:05] Speaker A: This is like, this is a deep cut right here. Let's go, carnival.
[00:13:08] Speaker B: Let's go.
[00:13:09] Speaker A: So I was in senior year of high school English class. I get a call on my phone from an 818 number.
[00:13:19] Speaker B: It's Julie. Me.
[00:13:21] Speaker A: Hung it up because, like, I said it straight to voicemail because I'm in school, but I'm recognizing the Los Angeles number. I asked to go to the bathroom. I step out and it is Gildal Delau, Janet Jackson's creative director, asking if I will come in and choreograph for the upcoming tour that she's doing. And I am, like, totally beside myself. The whole thing came off of a little, tiny homemade choreography reel that I made when I was 16. My mom videotaping me and friends like.
[00:13:49] Speaker B: You around the city, Clear as it was yesterday.
[00:13:53] Speaker A: Western Arts Academy up there with you and Randy doing stuff. Me and Misha and you and Randy out at the local flower shop that had just closed down on the bed.
[00:14:01] Speaker B: Of, like, a semi truck somewhere.
[00:14:03] Speaker A: Yeah, we were. We were shooting stuff all over the place, and then we took it to a place to get the DVD made.
[00:14:07] Speaker B: Yes. That's before you yourself.
[00:14:10] Speaker A: And I was handing it out at dance conventions.
[00:14:12] Speaker B: Hard copies.
[00:14:13] Speaker A: Hard copies. And, like, when it came time to hand, went out to Brian Friedman. I was like, mom, I can't do it. She's like, if you don't do it, I'm gonna do it. I was like, okay, okay, I'll do it. I'll do it. So I bring the DVD up, and this is how the real makes it all the way out to Los Angeles. Two years later, I get this call.
[00:14:29] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:14:29] Speaker A: Two years later, from that moment, I get introduced to msa. And Tony Selznick of MSA says, okay, we got something for you to cut your teeth on out here in Los Angeles. It's called Carnival. I was like, whoa, that sounds like, oh, my God, I can't wait. So we get together, and I'm thinking, okay, all these people, they're going to be watching. They're way older than me. They're way more advanced than me. They know so much more. I got to play to them. I got to make sure that we do something that's going to communicate to this group. 80s music. That's it.
[00:15:00] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:15:02] Speaker A: So we do this whole 80s mix and come up with this idea to reverse it. At one point, we did a whole.
[00:15:08] Speaker B: Section of multiple eight counts.
[00:15:12] Speaker A: Yes. It was a big section. Maybe it was a big chunk. A huge chunk.
[00:15:16] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:15:16] Speaker A: And this was my closest people. So of course you were there.
[00:15:18] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:15:19] Speaker A: Of course you were there. Yeah.
[00:15:21] Speaker B: Michael Wilson, Eli Bet Gifford.
[00:15:24] Speaker A: Oh, was Eli in there to go? Eli? Yeah, Randy.
[00:15:27] Speaker B: And yourself.
[00:15:28] Speaker A: Yeah, and myself. I was dancing, too. And so we get to the Key Club. We show up. Boogie is hosting. Yes, Boogie is hosting. We go on, we do the performance, and I remember we finished, and I looked out into the audience, and everybody was standing up, and I was like, oh, my God, you guys, we got a Standing ovation. I can't believe it. This is so thrilling.
[00:15:54] Speaker B: Fast forward.
[00:15:57] Speaker A: Fast forward to what? Two years later, I go to my first carnival. A year later, as somebody who's living in la, right? I show up and lo and behold, as you just said, standing. It's all standing room only.
[00:16:11] Speaker B: Oh, but we did get a standing ovation, Tone. And I think Boogie even said, I feel like the way he introduced us is something like, y'all aren't ready for what's about to hit the stage. These people are half your age and are gonna make you, like, reconsider your career or something. Like he said. Yeah, he was very kind, built us up. And then afterwards he said something to the effective, like, told you. Yeah, told you so.
[00:16:35] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:16:35] Speaker B: And I do remember that being well received. And I remember being stressed as really hell. There's a lot of moves in there.
[00:16:43] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:16:43] Speaker B: Do you have that somewhere? I think I probably do.
[00:16:45] Speaker A: I have that somewhere.
[00:16:46] Speaker B: Okay, we'll try to. We'll include a little clip. The podcast, by the way, if you are listening only, is in video format now as well. And this episode, probably more than any other, you're gonna want to be watching because I'm gonna include some video snippets.
[00:17:00] Speaker A: Oh, good. I'm so happy to hear that. That's wonderful.
[00:17:02] Speaker B: And some. And some close ups of these guys. Okay, so yeah, we've got history. That's cool. I'm so for. I don't know what it was, man. I think Colorado produces some pretty high caliber dancers. Maybe it's the altitude we can only suspect, but there's also a really healthy competitive energy there. We didn't go to the same studio, but we were allowed to work together and we chose to work together even outside of, like, dance studio classes. So by the time we both decided that this was the career we wanted and that this is what we're going to do, we. I really felt like we were on the same team.
And I think maybe it's different now. That was 100 years ago, but the competition environment does seem to kind of fragment people. But once you decide that this is your life, that's your team. Well said, and I'm so glad to have you as my teammate.
[00:17:55] Speaker A: Thank you for saying that. And I second that.
[00:17:57] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:17:58] Speaker A: Megaditto, yo.
[00:17:59] Speaker B: It was cool. One of my favorite, if I may, memories of, like, early being here or like right before we decided to move. I remember you and I had this shared.
I've talked about it on the podcast before because I talk a lot about dance on camera. And especially in training environments, when a camera comes out, what that does to your psyche. And you and I shared this, like, thought that was we choke on camera. I remember having a phase where I choked every time a camera came out. And I remember that you did too. And I had this, like, okay, well, if tested is too, then I'm not the worst.
But do you remember that time and do you remember by any chance what it was that changed things for you?
[00:18:44] Speaker A: Good question.
For me, it was not only choking on camera, it was also choking any time I had to change my front.
[00:18:52] Speaker B: Oh, interesting.
[00:18:53] Speaker A: Like, for example, you'd be taking a class and the teacher would have everybody face the sidewall or face the back or face two groups towards each other.
[00:19:01] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
[00:19:01] Speaker A: Goodbye.
[00:19:02] Speaker B: You're done. Goodbye.
[00:19:03] Speaker A: Good night.
[00:19:03] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:19:04] Speaker A: That was it for me. So that there was a real journey of.
I think it was more so just creating familiarity with doing that, that I don't think it was a moment that changed it for me. It was more so just over the.
[00:19:15] Speaker B: Strengthening a muscle that was weak.
[00:19:17] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:19:17] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
[00:19:18] Speaker A: Getting used to it. Yeah, Getting used to it. Staying more in my body, staying less in my head.
[00:19:23] Speaker B: Yeah. How do you do that? I talk about that a lot on the podcast. When it comes to being present, I know auditions often it's easy for me to get foggy and for me to be clear to ground. I will tie my shoe or touch a wall or change my hair or, like, do something tactile that I've done a million times before. That helps me. Do you have any tricks? I know you don't perform much anymore, but what helps you to be present?
[00:19:54] Speaker A: I think similar to what you're saying, somehow checking in with the five senses. Yeah, yeah. Like, what's going on right actually now, what's happening in this current moment? And you can just do a quick 20 to 30 second check in.
Starting with a breath. Starting with just one breath.
What are you hearing? What are you smelling currently?
[00:20:13] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:20:13] Speaker A: What taste might be lingering in the mouth?
What does it feel like around. Around me right now? The texture of this chair, feeling of my feet inside my shoes.
[00:20:22] Speaker B: The air is there. Wind, is it hot?
[00:20:25] Speaker A: All of that. So what do I see? What do I notice? And then boom. I am present. Yeah, yeah.
[00:20:32] Speaker B: Anchored.
[00:20:33] Speaker A: I am anchored in the moment.
[00:20:34] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:20:35] Speaker A: Keeping it that way, that's another one.
[00:20:37] Speaker B: But getting there, because your mind moves fast, right. And so does our world. So those things are changing. Or someone says something that requires your attention.
[00:20:45] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:20:46] Speaker B: And your brain, poor little brain can only do so much at Once.
[00:20:49] Speaker A: Yeah. I find that it's the most challenging if I am directing something I'm performing in.
[00:20:54] Speaker B: Okay, tell me more.
[00:20:55] Speaker A: This is tricky for me because, you know, I think one of the great hallmarks of being a great director is also low key. Being a great producer.
[00:21:03] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:21:04] Speaker A: And so figuring out how you can time your day, how you can make sure the team feels safe, seen in terms of scheduling, requires so much foresight.
[00:21:14] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:21:15] Speaker A: Into what you're making. But yet at the same time, you're required to also be of the moment. So juggling those two for me is quite a challenge. Not. Not my favorite of all challenges. It's tough. It's tough for me. I also am somebody who is very visual about the way that I work, and it's tough for me to visualize it when I'm in it.
[00:21:33] Speaker B: Yikes.
[00:21:34] Speaker A: Really tough.
[00:21:35] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:21:35] Speaker A: So usually for shoots like that, like in B1, the finale scene of B1 on the White. Psych. This was that exact moment where at times I have my teammate talking to me like, I see your mouth moving. But right now, I'm thinking about 10 other things, and that is such a tricky line for me to. To. To. To walk.
[00:21:58] Speaker B: Maybe that's tone the same as this, like, choking on camera or like, facing a new direction thing. It's just the muscle that's weaker, and maybe you need to put yourself in your work more often. Do you see what I did there? That was so sneaky.
I have always. You're one of my favorite dancers, period. And I've always. I've always thought, I'll be totally transparent. I've always thought that it was like a disappointment that you would only choreograph. So when I went and saw B1, which. Let's talk about it now. I was thrilled to see you in it. And I don't think it is about you, but stop me if I'm wrong, but I was glad to see you communicating from your own voice, like from your own perspective, versus doing other work. And I think maybe.
Let's jump back.
When we were 16, you knew you wanted to be a choreographer.
[00:22:57] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:22:57] Speaker B: Did you ever want to be a dancer?
[00:22:59] Speaker A: Not really.
[00:23:00] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:23:01] Speaker A: So that was. That was a tough. A tough line to write as well.
[00:23:04] Speaker B: Right. Because that's. If our world has any structure for going about things or any, like, you know, systematic approach for, you know, ascending to greatness. It would be like, start as a dancer, then become an assistant, then an associate, then a co choreographer, then you're a choreographer, then you're a supervising choreographer. And then you're a director, and then, you know, so on and so forth. But you kind of bypassed that first part and went straight to choreographing. And so I always feel like it's such a treat when I get to see you perform.
[00:23:34] Speaker A: Thank you.
[00:23:35] Speaker B: Yeah, it's a treasure. And I was there at Congress when you shot the segment that was in B1, which I'm really hoping people can see.
Can people see this film anywhere? We're calling it B1. Is that the name of the film or is that the name of the experience? Or is that the name of all of it? Sorry, I have a thousand questions. Good luck editing this one, Riley.
[00:24:00] Speaker A: I think the first question was about the.
The performing aspect for B1 and what that kind of.
[00:24:08] Speaker B: Yes. Was it about you, question mark?
[00:24:15] Speaker A: I don't. I'm not sure. I don't know the answer to that question. If it was about me, I know it was certainly me in there.
And I felt that there was a need for a single subject to be on. On a very expansive background. And per the wonderful suggestion of one of my close friends and also one of our collaborators, Wade Robson, at one point I wanted to invert the film and have.
Because for the entire point up until then, it was. Everything was a lit subject on a black backdrop. I wanted to reverse it and have a dark subject on a white backdrop.
[00:24:51] Speaker B: In front of our worlds.
[00:24:52] Speaker A: So I knew that that was happening, and I had a real instinct about the way that I wanted to move in the piece. And I knew that my mother would have my head if I didn't perform in it.
[00:25:02] Speaker B: Yep. So thanks again, Nancy. This is your Third, fourth, fifth. Thank you. Of the episode. And you tapped, too, which I think is Stop Me if I'm wrong, kind of your native dance language.
[00:25:14] Speaker A: Yeah, that's right. That's right. Tap is how I started. And I knew that because this project meant so much to me that it was really important that I really touched into my roots.
Also, the whole score was created from tap, from the backbone and from my experience in tap. So I am.
I was super grateful to have been able to step into that role and to perform as a soloist and to get to practice, like you said, practice wearing the Charlie Chaplin hat.
[00:25:41] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:25:42] Speaker A: You know, doing it all at once.
[00:25:44] Speaker B: Behind and in front of camera.
[00:25:45] Speaker A: Yeah. Very, very, very, very tough. Very, very, very, very tricky to do that.
[00:25:49] Speaker B: Agree.
[00:25:50] Speaker A: Very, very tough.
[00:25:51] Speaker B: I like what you said about being.
About being a better director because you're thinking of being a producer. I think most people think that Great directors are great performers. They know how to connect with a performer. But I'm with you. I think great directors need to be great producers. It's a bonus if you know how to perform. Speaking to actors is important. Just like being a choreographer, it's important to know how to speak to dancers. But, man, if you know how to make your day, if you know how to schedule, if you know who. Who to put in the right places and how much money and how much time things will take, you're set up for success. I mean, yeah, great. If you happen to know how to communicate with talent, this is wonderful. But wow. To be a great producer. Yeah. I think is like a superpower for directors. I think that's a great point.
[00:26:46] Speaker A: So to your point about choreography and dance, I knew that I wanted to choreograph very early on. It was my first communion with a real passion for the arts was through choreography.
I love to dance. I was having a blast dancing. I was loving everything we were doing on convention, and I was loving going to auditions. It was all so much fun.
[00:27:05] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:27:06] Speaker A: But I felt that I was in that process educating myself as a choreographer.
[00:27:11] Speaker B: Right. It was a means to becoming a choreographer versus the main dish itself.
[00:27:16] Speaker A: Yes. And I'll never forget one of my last projects, it was for Janet, which was so wonderful because that's how I got my big break. Big shout out to Gil and the whole Janet camp for putting me up. Thank you so much.
I knew that I was on set. I was dancing. I think it was a piece called Feedback. Edward choreographed the majority of it.
[00:27:36] Speaker B: Oh, I know it well.
[00:27:37] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:27:37] Speaker B: For someone who's not in it, I could probably recall a great amount of that choreography.
[00:27:42] Speaker A: Yeah. So I remember being on set and just having a moment looking around. I was looking at all the dancers, and everybody was having so much fun. And I was looking at the. The. The team behind, like, Video Village there watching, and I was just feeling so much longing to be over there. And I just knew where I wanted to be, and I knew what I wanted to be doing. And I was just, you know, doing everything I could to. To. To. To put myself in that position because I wanted to learn.
[00:28:06] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:28:07] Speaker A: In that way. And I remember Kenny said to me, Kenny Ortega, that one of my great mentors and one of the great humans I've ever had the pleasure of meeting on this planet, he said to me, I can't believe you're gonna stop dancing at 22 like this. You're in here. You're in your prime. Why would you do that why would you stop? And I just said, I. I know. But in my heart, I just know this is not what I want to do.
[00:28:28] Speaker B: Woof.
[00:28:28] Speaker A: I know this is not what I want to do. And. And I. It was just. It was just a. It was instinctual. It was just a different. It was just.
[00:28:36] Speaker B: Yeah, it. There was a poignant. There was a moment. It was defined and refined. And you on the feedback set, you looked at the people and you were like, ah, that. That's where I want to be.
[00:28:47] Speaker A: Yeah. And it had nothing to do with having a higher position, quote, unquote, higher position or wanting to be above my different role, different simple act of creativity in that particular way. The creation of the movement. That's where I wanted to be, and that's where I was comfortable. And I'd spent the most amount of time there. It was.
I don't find that it was more creative than being a dancer. It was just a different kind of creativity.
[00:29:13] Speaker B: Yeah. So do you recall having any moments like that since then?
[00:29:20] Speaker A: Of just kind of knowing what my lane is?
[00:29:22] Speaker B: Yeah. Or of seeing something or someone and being like, ah, that. That's next.
[00:29:28] Speaker A: The biggest and the most obvious one is where you just were at B1.
[00:29:33] Speaker B: You know, which was a box a result of apprenticing with Dimitri's Papayon. I knew I was gonna say his name.
[00:29:41] Speaker A: Great Greek grandmaster.
[00:29:44] Speaker B: Okay. Talk a little bit more about your experience with him and then we'll do a deep dive on B1.
[00:29:48] Speaker A: Okay. So apprentice is a very generous word. I was an unpaid trainee in a lighting stand in.
[00:29:54] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:29:55] Speaker A: And I was so grateful to be in the room. So grateful. So how that came about is I'd start. I started to come across his work online and I just immediately was drawn to his work. I felt very connected to what I was seeing. And I was like, who is this person?
So I started doing what had worked out very well for me several times in my journey in the arts, which is I found his email and I just. Just started cold emailing him.
[00:30:21] Speaker B: Damn.
[00:30:22] Speaker A: I just started reaching out to the
[email protected] on his website. I don't even know if that's what it is. But it was just the general contact email on the website over and over and over.
[00:30:33] Speaker B: How many times?
[00:30:34] Speaker A: I have no idea. But I figured they can't ignore me forever.
[00:30:37] Speaker B: Oh, my God.
[00:30:37] Speaker A: So after a point in time, I got a reply. A reply. And I said, if I fly to Athens, will you meet with me? And I got another reply. Okay. Tuesday, 6 o'clock. And you were right.
[00:30:51] Speaker B: Google.flights.com.
[00:30:53] Speaker A: And I was on a plane, yo. I was on a plane in hours to Greece.
[00:30:58] Speaker B: And not only a plane of this story.
[00:30:59] Speaker A: I land in Greece.
I'm going to a cafe in this man's, like, neighborhood. Like, I'm on a plane. I land. I go get a cab to the train station, train to a bus, bus to the neighborhood. And I'm walking in the middle of Athens alone to find this cafe. And I don't speak any Greek, yo. So I pull up at this cafe, and I sit down, and I'm waiting. And then here he comes, walking down the street and pulls up, and he's basically like.
[00:31:29] Speaker B: And you're sweating.
[00:31:30] Speaker A: I'm sweating.
And he's like, so what are you doing here, kid?
[00:31:35] Speaker B: And you were like, funny. I was hoping you would tell me.
[00:31:39] Speaker A: And I basically just said, can I be in the room? You know, I'm not asking to be paid. I'm not asking for any kind of recognition. I'm just wondering if I can be in the room while you work.
And Demetrius is a very, very intelligent, incredibly intuitive human and creator, and I was so fortunate that he. He said, okay, I got something coming up. If you put yourself up and you'll take care of the rest, you can be in the room.
[00:32:05] Speaker B: And how far out was that from the day that you were talking to him?
[00:32:08] Speaker A: Maybe within four to six months.
[00:32:11] Speaker B: Okay, so you came back home six.
[00:32:12] Speaker A: Months, prepared your life, started studying Greek.
[00:32:15] Speaker B: Damn.
[00:32:16] Speaker A: This whole team worked in Greek. They talked in Greek.
[00:32:19] Speaker B: Whoa.
[00:32:20] Speaker A: So I was like, I hardcore jumped into language lessons just so I could have some. Yeah, something.
Something.
[00:32:27] Speaker B: Right? You're trying to learn the language of his art. It would help to know the language that he's speaking.
[00:32:33] Speaker A: Yeah. And I want to. I want to blend into the team. I want to enter into the scenario and be open enough and receptive enough and teachable. Yeah, and teachable enough to get in there and just immediately hop in with. With the way that they do things.
[00:32:48] Speaker B: Huge.
[00:32:49] Speaker A: So that was really big for me. And it was most of the time just me looking around, trying to figure out, how can I be helpful?
How can. How can I just help what they're doing? Because everybody's collectively making something. I want to help. Let me just help it. So I did dishes, you know, for cast. I stood in for lighting. I was. I grabbed a camera at one point. I was doing bts. Yeah. I was basically, like, just helping out with whatever they needed. And in turn, I had a notebook with me the entire time. And I filled up a whole notebook in a matter of weeks.
[00:33:22] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:33:23] Speaker A: And I was there for six weeks on the Great Tamer, which was such an incredible gift. Such an incredible gift. And then I was so fortunate to be asked back to come and join for his creation, the first ever choreographer to set a piece on Pina Bausch's company after she passed.
[00:33:39] Speaker B: Damn.
[00:33:40] Speaker A: Then I went to Wuppertal and lived in Wupital for a few months and took my bike down from my little flat over to the hall where they were creating the work and got to spend a tremendous amount of time at the Pinabosch archive.
[00:33:57] Speaker B: Whoa. What a gift.
[00:33:58] Speaker A: This was life changing.
[00:34:00] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:34:01] Speaker A: Life changing. This was a huge, huge, huge moment for my growth as an individual, as an artist, as a creator, because I was really, for the first time seeing somebody at his level, at his age, at his ability, creating the best work that they can possibly make for nobody.
[00:34:25] Speaker B: Woof. Other than themselves.
[00:34:27] Speaker A: Yep. Yeah, yep.
[00:34:29] Speaker B: That is huge.
[00:34:30] Speaker A: And so that, for me, was so eye opening in such a wonderful way to crack me open at a time when I needed it so much, because I've been so.
I'd gotten quite accustomed to working in pop.
[00:34:44] Speaker B: Yep. Oh, and there was a heavy, heavy subtext there. Disappointment, unhappiness there in that space.
[00:34:51] Speaker A: Or there's a lot of gifts that came from working in pop. So many gifts.
[00:34:55] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:34:55] Speaker A: And so many gifts that I bring with me to this day. And so many people that I've met, so many wonderful tools have gone into my belt because of doing that work. So I wouldn't trade it for the world. I want to trade it from the world. It's just a different. Just coming from a different place.
[00:35:11] Speaker B: Yes. And answering to someone other than yourself. By definition, I think the commercial industry is making something to sell something.
And that sales part is not.
It's not a component. It's not a part of the recipe. When you make a work for yourself, eventually down the line, you might think about, if you will, how much you'll charge for people to come see this thing, but it's not to sell something else. And I think, Yeah, I don't know. I've never minded selling something other than myself, but the older that I get and the more, you know, invested I get in unionizing and organizing for dancers and choreographers, the more I find that when you see the bigger picture, the bigger money picture and how much money there is out there and how much of it the artists actually get.
Ouch. Yeah. I would rather make art for not selling. For. I would rather make art to not sell something else. It just seems like such a.
Ugh. It's. It's disappointing. I. I feel disappointed in that space sometimes at times.
[00:36:28] Speaker A: I do too.
[00:36:29] Speaker B: Mm.
[00:36:30] Speaker A: I do too. It's. It's. And it's tricky to know sometimes when it's propaganda.
[00:36:33] Speaker B: Uh huh. That's true.
[00:36:35] Speaker A: Tricky to know sometimes. But I guess the more time you spend in it, you start to kind of recognize that little whiff, that little something that just doesn't quite smell right.
[00:36:44] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah, that's Riz's bone right now at this point, she's going ham on this thing, and I hope nobody at home can hear it because that is not the best, not the greatest sounding noise right now. Oh, she's chilling so hard. She knows now that podcast interviews equal. She gets whatever she wants so that she'll stay quiet. She's very smart.
Okay, so you decide to go a deep dive into B1, which stands for black box. Yeah.
[00:37:10] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:37:10] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:37:11] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:37:11] Speaker B: And this is.
You can definitely explain it better than I can, but what I see from the outside is this was your commitment to go 100% in on art, and you basically cast a net that said, anybody else want to go out all in on art with me? Okay, come, come one, come all. And made a thing with some people who were down as to roll up their sleeves, literally get dirty and do some work. How? That's how I would explain it from the outside looking in. How would you explain it? What it was at the beginning and what it is now?
[00:37:50] Speaker A: Well, I'd say you nailed it. Once I came back from Greece, I immediately converted my 2 car garage into a black box theater.
[00:37:58] Speaker B: Yeah. You were like, I have to work, I have to practice.
[00:38:00] Speaker A: Yeah. It was just no question about the path forward for me at that point. And I was super fortunate to know a lot of great dancers in this city, a lot of great commercially working dancers who also had this deep desire to experiment with movement. And I think that this is kind of my people. This is kind of my. My favorite dancer to work with is a dancer who's trained, has experience in working commercially and has a deep desire.
[00:38:25] Speaker B: To experiment to up.
[00:38:27] Speaker A: This is like these, this, this is my tribe. This is who I want to work with.
[00:38:31] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:38:32] Speaker A: I love when dancers are smart and they're, they're, they're aware of their surroundings and they know what it takes to work quickly, but yet they've got this other thing that brought them into the art form before there was any Money involved that I can connect with.
[00:38:44] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:38:44] Speaker A: When I first started choreographing, it was just pure experimentation and love. It was just pure joy. And not to say that I lost that over the course of moving to Los Angeles and getting the great fortune of working in here in the commercial space. But Black Box one was my return to that experimental space, but with all the tools, all of the knowledge of dance history, all of the working under pressure. Yep.
[00:39:13] Speaker B: Building relationships, having to do the impossible on a quick turnaround.
[00:39:19] Speaker A: Yeah. It was bringing all of that with me to an experimental place. And. And to ask, what would I. What would I do if I just gave myself time and gave myself complete freedom? What would happen then?
[00:39:32] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:39:33] Speaker A: And right around that time, as you said earlier, photography came into my world in a big way. And once photography came into my world, I felt there was a. There was a. Something clicked into place. Something deep in the history of my mom's scrapbooking had made its way into my life. And the camera felt very natural in my hands.
[00:39:50] Speaker B: Nice.
[00:39:51] Speaker A: And so those two things came together, and I started first just renting Black Box theater space while I was building my garage around the city. Whitmore Lindley was my first place. Gary's acting class.
[00:40:03] Speaker B: How have we not talked about this? You are the reason I found Gary Imhoff changed my dancing more than any dance teacher ever did.
[00:40:09] Speaker A: He is so, what a incredible understander and reflector of art. Back to those that are showing it for him. You know, he was so great, graceful to allow his students to go into class and put up anything, anything. So I go.
[00:40:25] Speaker B: And you took advantage.
[00:40:26] Speaker A: I would put up super experimental stuff in his class in front of a bunch of actors and aspiring directors and screenwriters.
[00:40:31] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:40:32] Speaker A: And that space was one of the places I would rent space from and invite dancers I trusted to just come experiment. We would come explore. And it got to a point where I was having people like, hey, I want to get in on this. I want to try this. I want to. I want to come into the room. I want to be in the room. And I was testing out things I learned in Wupital things. I. You know, I was talking to Peter Pabst, Pina's longtime set designer, and learning so much about the way that these great creators had devoted their life to making their work. And I wanted to play and I wanted to experiment, and I wanted to come at it from that place. And so it was Erin Marino at the time. She was with MSA as an agent, and she kind of saw what I was Doing and said, hey, why don't you like open this up a little more? Because there's a lot of people that are asking about it. There's a lot of people that want to get in there or they want.
[00:41:21] Speaker B: To be in front of you and working with you. And you're not a person with a regular class. You don't hold auditions often. You, it's. You're kind of hard to reach.
[00:41:29] Speaker A: Yeah. Maybe that as well. Maybe that as well.
[00:41:32] Speaker B: Supply and demand. She.
[00:41:33] Speaker A: She definitely said there's dancers that are, that are, that want to be involved. Why don't you open it up a little more than just your tight circle.
[00:41:39] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:41:40] Speaker A: And so that was the initial outreach.
[00:41:42] Speaker B: Cool.
[00:41:42] Speaker A: And you know, it was a little bit tough for me in the beginning because I didn't really. Hadn't really done anything like this before. Hadn't really like reached out to the community.
You know, also it was a. It was going to be a six week creation process and I knew that there was no way that I was going to be able to do that on my own. So I needed financial support. And so I, without ever having done that ask before, said to the dance community, is this something of value? Are people willing to help support this finance?
[00:42:13] Speaker B: Would you pay to be here for this?
[00:42:14] Speaker A: Yeah. Is that, is that like ridiculous? Because I'm trying to figure out how I'm going to make this work and is that possible?
[00:42:20] Speaker B: And what did the community say?
[00:42:21] Speaker A: Very fortunate to have a community that responded with the feeling that this was an equitable exchange.
[00:42:27] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:42:27] Speaker A: And so I was. That kind of gave me the permission to go, okay, let's open it up, let's open it up. And also we got to make it accessible too.
[00:42:37] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:42:37] Speaker A: Because at that time things weren't that great.
[00:42:39] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:42:40] Speaker A: In the, in the dance industry, they're not that great right now either. But they really weren't that great then. And there was a lot of people that were trying to. That wanted to be a part of it.
[00:42:47] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:42:48] Speaker A: And couldn't make it work.
[00:42:49] Speaker B: So you made some scholarships available or how did you. How did you filter?
[00:42:53] Speaker A: So through the great support of our wonderful fearless leader, Mr. Jollandieri.
[00:42:59] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:42:59] Speaker A: And also through the other fearless leaders, Andy and Becky Funk of Monsters.
[00:43:04] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:43:05] Speaker A: Scholarships were given through the conventions.
[00:43:07] Speaker B: Very cool.
[00:43:07] Speaker A: And we had a very generous donor come up towards the end and offer financial support.
[00:43:14] Speaker B: Fantastic.
[00:43:15] Speaker A: Wanted it.
[00:43:15] Speaker B: Fantastic.
[00:43:16] Speaker A: So any of the dancers who asked for it got it. Which was really, really.
[00:43:19] Speaker B: That's important.
[00:43:20] Speaker A: That's huge gift.
[00:43:21] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:43:22] Speaker A: And it enabled us to get in the room. And it enabled us to. To have great studio space.
[00:43:26] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:43:26] Speaker A: And have wardrobe.
[00:43:27] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:43:28] Speaker A: And, you know, and make a film.
[00:43:31] Speaker B: That part, Tone, when I was sitting there, I mean, I love you, and I really do think you could get on stage and armpit fart, and I'd be like, that was great. But I have to say, first of all, I think it's profound and moving. And in the bts, you call it a significant contribution to dance, and I agree that it is. I really do. But even outside of that, even if it wasn't, it's so hard to get shit made for anything less than millions of dollars. Like, that was a big bite, Tone, and it was. I'm just in awe that it got made, and in absolute.
Like, I'm speechless still when I think about how moving it was. So I hope that you are wildly proud and in the spirit of Gary Imhoff, I hope you are such. Celebrating the. Out of yourself.
[00:44:26] Speaker A: Thank you. I very much so am.
[00:44:27] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:44:27] Speaker A: And celebrating the team that I was so fortunate to make it with because it was such a killer.
[00:44:34] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:44:34] Speaker A: Team. I mean, really, really killer team.
[00:44:38] Speaker B: Does. Do you want to shout some people out? I know Carissa was your love to Was your right hand. You could shout out all the dancers right now. I would be very impressed. That's a lot of people.
[00:44:46] Speaker A: Yeah. The first person that I asked to be part of the project was Carissa. You know, Carissa and I had worked together several times before that, but this was definitely the deepest dive that we'd ever gone on creatively. And so I was so fortunate to have her partnership not only as, you know, an associate choreographer, but also through her styling and wardrobe suggestion.
[00:45:07] Speaker B: Yeah, she's got great taste.
[00:45:09] Speaker A: The opening of the film, so she brought so much to the table in addition to just being, you know, one of those creators who just.
Just brings it.
[00:45:17] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:45:17] Speaker A: Just walks into the room and brings it. And she kind of set the tone for all the performers.
The second person to come in was Castle Rock.
[00:45:25] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:45:25] Speaker A: From Canada. And him.
[00:45:26] Speaker B: And I'm speaking of the bts.
[00:45:27] Speaker A: Man, oh, man. Didn't he kill it?
[00:45:30] Speaker B: Oh, my God. Crushed. It was so good.
[00:45:33] Speaker A: Yeah. So he's from Toronto.
[00:45:34] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:45:34] Speaker A: Lives in B.C. in between B.C. and Miami at the moment. And just a real. One of my favorite things about Castle is Castle is so talented, and he doesn't know how good he actually is. You know, this is somebody who moves fluidly between color grading.
[00:45:51] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:45:52] Speaker A: Music production.
[00:45:52] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:45:53] Speaker A: He sings, he breaks. He's like. He's a whiz. With the camera. He's a whiz in Ableton, and he's just so humble, so kind, and he brought that energy to the set. And every day he would bring that sweet, kind, gentle, humble energy.
[00:46:11] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:46:11] Speaker A: On top of all of his wonderful skill sets and just a real joy to be around.
[00:46:16] Speaker B: Yo. Love that. That was a very. Castle, if you are looking to create a dating profile, might I suggest that you have this guy write it? That was it. That's Castle in a nutshell, for sure. He. I remember you introducing him to me for the first time at an NYCDA in. In. In Los Angeles, probably. And we sessioned in the hallway in between classes.
[00:46:37] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:46:37] Speaker B: And it was. It's not something I do in. In between classes on nycda. I am somewhere foam rolling.
[00:46:43] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:46:43] Speaker B: We're, like, trying to get my mini combo together.
[00:46:45] Speaker A: Right.
[00:46:46] Speaker B: I feel like he just walked up and he was like, hey, want to jam? I have a speaker. And I was like, yeah, throw on your favorite song. And we were just kind of going in little rounds between the three of us, and it was so natural and simple and fun and good. And you're right. Like, being capable on top of that helps for you to place more trust in him. He handled the BTS of this, like, very intimate, very personal, very serious thing that you made. And. Yeah, I can't think of a better person that you would hand that to than someone who is sincere, gentle, sweet, but also very capable. Yeah, that's that guy.
[00:47:28] Speaker A: Yeah. He's a wonderful. A wonderful teammate. Him and Carissa together. I felt like I just had the firepower going into that. Yeah.
[00:47:37] Speaker B: That's a dream team.
[00:47:38] Speaker A: Absolutely. And then towards the end of the project is when I started to not only collaborate with the partner that I'm with now, but also really start to get to know this person and see the incredible gift that is Momo.
[00:47:51] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:47:51] Speaker A: You know, Momo is just such an incredible. Not only a DIYer to the UMPH degree, like, can make things happen with two popsicle sticks and a rubber band.
[00:47:59] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:48:00] Speaker A: Like, so, so capable with very little.
[00:48:03] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:48:03] Speaker A: But super MacGyver and super positive. Like, brings a level of radiance and positivity to the team that just absolutely.
[00:48:13] Speaker B: Lifted us up that a black box could probably use. Probably.
[00:48:16] Speaker A: Oh, man. Talk about the lightness. Talk about the lightness and just the. The. Just somebody who's really down to get in there and just search for it.
[00:48:26] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:48:26] Speaker A: And that has been such a incredible, incredible gift. And not only a collaborator, but a partner. So her coming in and really Lifting our team up in the final push and producing not only the Colorado premiere, but also our west coast Los Angeles premiere. I mean, which was so much fun. Huge. And with a tremendous level of grace and generosity and just. Just light heartedness. She's a very lighthearted spirit, and I feel very, very fortunate to be. To be in her company.
[00:48:56] Speaker B: That was well said, Tone. I am.
I. Again, I'm in awe of you, of the entire team. I'm so grateful that I got to be there and impressed with what you all created.
[00:49:06] Speaker A: I feel super honored that this work came through me and came through this team. And I feel that there's something about it that is very, very important, not only as a contribution to the art form of dance, but I feel for humanity. I feel that there's a gift to be given to humanity through this work, and I am honored to be in a position for it to move through me and this team. And so I don't really feel like at this time, I'm very interested in people receiving that gift while they're on the toilet looking at their iPhone.
So I'm interested more in getting people into the room, listening to it on the speakers that we've got, watching it on the projector that we've got, and doing it without the presence of a phone. Yeah.
[00:49:59] Speaker B: I feel like. I don't feel like. I know. It's quite clear that the presence of these handheld devices is central to the work, which is so interesting.
[00:50:09] Speaker A: It's a wonderful duality about the work too.
[00:50:12] Speaker B: Yeah.
Yeah. At the screening, our phones were taken from us and put in delightful Momo bags.
[00:50:19] Speaker A: Yeah. And custom made, handmade.
[00:50:21] Speaker B: I love experiencing.
It was the same at the Bruno Mars and Silksonic concert, Madonna. It's not uncommon. I actually really like experiencing art without the device.
And maybe it's just like my rose colored glasses, but I feel like I remember it clearer for having not had this in between me and it. This is how it works.
Yeah. I thought the messages all over it were very poignant. I do have more questions about it, for sure, and questions about how you. Because it's dark and heavy and real, and it's about things of great concepts of great consequence. Freedom, identity.
Like freedom in many ways. Freedom physically, but also freedom from technology. At least that's how I've felt when watching it. And I just. I know that you are a person who deals with heavy and important concepts with great care.
I know this because you're my friend and you've helped me through some really tough times.
I'm Wondering if you could talk us through other than art, if there are any. Any ways that you process hard and comfortable, important things or what you would say to people who are going through moments of great consequence right now.
[00:51:46] Speaker A: That's a beautiful question. I don't know that I'm the best person to answer this question, but I have had some success in times of hardship with facing things head on and putting it as a checkbox in your planner to do so. This is something we talked about with grief later on. With grief.
[00:52:11] Speaker B: Yeah. You helped me schedule time to process.
[00:52:13] Speaker A: Grief and how important that is to schedule time to face those things that are uncomfortable.
[00:52:20] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:52:21] Speaker A: And that was. That's just something that came out of some really important therapy work that I had done and was one of the. One of the most powerful tools was just the tool of consistency.
[00:52:36] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:52:37] Speaker A: And there's a great quote that persistence can grind an iron beam down to a needle.
That's true.
And if you can apply that to your own life, I feel like that it's quite possible for great evolution to happen.
And so I. I take great comfort in knowing that over the course of time, with enough persistence, incredible, incredible transformation is possible.
[00:53:07] Speaker B: Tony T. Thank you for those words. That was very poetic and concise and sharp and also heavy. So why don't we lighten things up very quickly with a really quick rapid fire round.
[00:53:18] Speaker A: Oh, God.
[00:53:19] Speaker B: By the way, this is Tony Testa's first ever podcast.
[00:53:22] Speaker A: First ever.
[00:53:23] Speaker B: And I totally forgot to have you introduce yourself. It's usually how I start every episode, but we got into this so quickly with you giving me a great compliment about how much fun it is to talk to me. So we didn't have you introduce yourself.
Go ahead and introduce yourself and then we'll do wrist roll with it, which is what I call the rapid fire round.
Come on.
[00:53:46] Speaker A: My name is Tony Testa, born and raised in Fort Collins, Colorado.
[00:53:50] Speaker B: That's important.
[00:53:52] Speaker A: Very important to me.
Background in dance was trained in ballet, Tap, jazz.
Lyrical. Yes. Breakin.
[00:54:03] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:54:03] Speaker A: Poppin lockin.
Did I say tap is. If I didn't, I should say it again. Tap.
And have been so fortunate to commune with the arts now for two decades out here in Los Angeles as a choreographer, as an artistic director, and as a mixed media artist.
[00:54:24] Speaker B: So that was a gorgeous introduction. Oh, thank you. You're good at profiles. You should be writing people's art barf and dating profiles.
Oh, my gosh, yes. Do you know who helped the Seaweed Sisters with our art barf? And it was watching her just spew These words was like. It was a religious experience.
Speaking of tap, Michelle Dorrance, she can art barf with the best of them. She. It's incredible. If ever you're curious as to what Michelle Dorrance has to say about the Seaweed sisters, you can go to the seaweedsisters.com because it's our bio.
[00:55:01] Speaker A: Nice.
[00:55:02] Speaker B: I love that it's something helpful to have somebody not yourself talk about your work.
And so, yeah, we. We called on her. She was in town and just. She was able to speak about us in a way that I don't think we were able to speak about ourselves yet, cuz she was outside.
[00:55:19] Speaker A: Wonderful.
[00:55:19] Speaker B: It helps.
[00:55:20] Speaker A: That's wonderful.
Oh, gosh.
[00:55:24] Speaker B: Come on.
[00:55:25] Speaker A: I was doing so good. Now I'm sweating.
[00:55:26] Speaker B: Don't sweat. You're gonna be great.
[00:55:28] Speaker A: All right, hit me.
[00:55:29] Speaker B: Coffee or tea?
[00:55:29] Speaker A: Tea.
[00:55:30] Speaker B: Dogs or cats?
[00:55:31] Speaker A: Dogs.
[00:55:31] Speaker B: Isn't this fun?
[00:55:32] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:55:34] Speaker B: Mountains or the ocean?
[00:55:36] Speaker A: Mountains.
[00:55:37] Speaker B: For sure. Film or digital?
[00:55:41] Speaker A: I can't choose. I like both.
[00:55:43] Speaker B: Depends on the project, huh?
[00:55:44] Speaker A: I like both. I like both for photography. I like both for moving images. I appreciate both.
[00:55:50] Speaker B: Film is more expensive. Yeah, film is more expensive, that's for sure.
What's your favorite dance step?
[00:55:56] Speaker A: I would probably say a shuffle off to Buffalo if I had to pick.
[00:56:02] Speaker B: Good move. I just put three consecutive buffaloes in a routine recently.
[00:56:06] Speaker A: Did you?
[00:56:06] Speaker B: I did.
[00:56:07] Speaker A: I would love it.
[00:56:09] Speaker B: So I have been doing lately in class and on NYCDA also, I call it a creative lab. And in real time, thanks to some improv comedy concepts, we create a combo out of nothing. Yeah, kind of Mad Libs style. I'll say.
[00:56:23] Speaker A: All right.
[00:56:23] Speaker B: Room. Feel free to fill in the blanks. Once upon a time, there was a Somebody will shout out lobster or something. Every single day that lobster went to the dentist. Until one day they came across a shark. And then, and then, and then, and then, and then until we have eight. Eight of. And then finally the end. It's very much fun. And somewhere in one of those three buffaloes were involved.
[00:56:50] Speaker A: Nice.
[00:56:51] Speaker B: Okay, so that's your favorite stuff. Stephen, stupid step. What is your least favorite step? I can't wait to find out. I feel like I probably know it.
[00:56:59] Speaker A: My least favorite step.
[00:57:01] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:57:02] Speaker A: Oh, man.
[00:57:03] Speaker B: Like. Like imagine.
[00:57:05] Speaker A: Okay. Okay.
[00:57:05] Speaker B: Imagine we're back at home and Brian Friedman is setting a piece on the studio. And he's like, okay. And then we're gonna. And you're like, oh, why?
[00:57:14] Speaker A: I think it would probably be seven pirouettes into an aerial because I could never do it and he could do it.
And can probably still do it.
[00:57:23] Speaker B: 100% can still do. I feel like he probably posted recently him doing it. Love you Brian. Gotta come truly, truly, truly, truly, deeply. When it, when we talk about like experiences that we would not trade or transfer for anything.
Learning from you, Brian Friedman early on and still is on that list for sure.
Okay. This segue segues nicely. Wait, so least favorite step would be seven pirouettes into an aerial?
[00:57:51] Speaker A: I think so.
[00:57:51] Speaker B: Yeah. Good call. Save parallel prep. What's your favorite combo of yours?
[00:57:58] Speaker A: Andre 3000.
[00:58:00] Speaker B: Happy Valentine's Day. I same. It's so good.
Whoa. Favorite combo that is not yours or choreography. It doesn't need to be a combo. Favorite choreography.
[00:58:14] Speaker A: Of course. Fosse's Rich Man's Frug is the obvious God first one that comes to my mind.
But I, I, I, I feel like Killian's Petite Mort is some of the best choreography that I can think of off the top of my head in this rapid fire moment.
[00:58:32] Speaker B: Nice.
[00:58:35] Speaker A: Some of the duets in Petit mortar I think as good as I've ever seen dance.
[00:58:40] Speaker B: Yes, yes.
[00:58:42] Speaker A: Within the realm of a pre existing technique.
[00:58:46] Speaker B: Ah, right.
[00:58:47] Speaker A: Like he's experimenting with ballet.
[00:58:49] Speaker B: Uh huh.
[00:58:50] Speaker A: And what he experimented with within the pre existing form of ballet I think is some of the highest level experimentation I know of.
[00:58:58] Speaker B: Well said.
I want to ask something really dumb after that because you just sounded really smart.
[00:59:05] Speaker A: Oh God.
[00:59:07] Speaker B: What's your favorite acronym?
[00:59:09] Speaker A: Okay, so acronym like stands for this.
[00:59:12] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:59:13] Speaker A: I love that. I just had to confirm what an.
[00:59:14] Speaker B: Acronym was first before we got T stands for this. Mine is sbd.
[00:59:20] Speaker A: Sbd. Sign up at Deadly. Nice.
[00:59:24] Speaker B: Actually it's not. I've got several favorite acronyms, but SVD was just me trying to like be 7 year old 7 with you right now.
[00:59:32] Speaker A: I think for me it would be when I'm looking at my itinerary home and it says BUR instead of lax.
[00:59:39] Speaker B: Nice.
Which I don't think is an acronym. It's an abbreviation.
[00:59:43] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:59:43] Speaker B: It's an airport code.
[00:59:44] Speaker A: Yeah. To be an airport code.
[00:59:45] Speaker B: I have a book. It's called the Art of the Airport. It's the world's most beautiful airports and the COVID of it.
[00:59:51] Speaker A: Nice. I bet we've seen many.
[00:59:53] Speaker B: So this is book you would love.
Oh, we should do a test. Do you know what TXL is? What airport is txl?
[01:00:03] Speaker A: Is that Toronto?
[01:00:05] Speaker B: No, that's Pearson T. No. Yyz.
[01:00:09] Speaker A: Yyz. Right, that's right. That's right.
[01:00:13] Speaker B: I don't know any of these actually. Except for jfk. Listener, Viewer. How about you.
How about wlg, Wiggerland?
[01:00:22] Speaker A: Oh, yes.
It's in Europe.
It's where all the dancers in Europe.
[01:00:29] Speaker B: Yeah. Wiggling.
I can't.
WLG is New Zealand.
[01:00:35] Speaker A: Really?
[01:00:35] Speaker B: Okay. Anyways, there's some good wigglers from New Zealand book for. Yeah, really good wigglers in New Zealand. I still have the. Oh, crazy.
Oh, no. Jk. I was like, this is such a coincidence on the same street that you had your B1 screening. Actually, no, I think this is where that's from.
There's a bookstore on the corner of. It's off of Burbank, Right. Or was it off of Victory?
[01:01:03] Speaker A: It's right.
[01:01:03] Speaker B: It's no, Magnolia.
[01:01:05] Speaker A: It's on Magnolia. The cross street is Keystone. Actually, Catalina is the exact cross street.
[01:01:09] Speaker B: Just kidding. This is from auto books. Arrow Books. But there is a bookstore. I think that this might be the same place. I'll check. Oh, yes.
[01:01:17] Speaker A: Yes, it is. It's right near there. It's right near there. I saw it.
[01:01:19] Speaker B: Yo.
[01:01:20] Speaker A: It's right near there.
[01:01:21] Speaker B: That's crazy. Okay. So anyways, that's a great book. YYZ is Toronto. What is your desired superpower? Like, if you could have any superpower, what would it be?
[01:01:30] Speaker A: Oh, this is a good one.
Well, there once was a birthday party thrown for me where I was. Perfect timing, man.
[01:01:40] Speaker B: Yes, Tony. Yes.
[01:01:44] Speaker A: So I think out of respect to that time and also to honor my younger self's desire for a superpower, I guess it would be perfect timing, man.
[01:01:53] Speaker B: Oh, arguably, you do have perfect timing. Which brings us to my next question. What is your actual superpower?
[01:02:02] Speaker A: I think one of my greatest gifts that I feel so fortunate to have inherited is my work ethic.
And as the incredible Gary Imhoff says, any gift overused or any power overused can become a weakness indeed. So in working with one of the greatest gifts I believe that I possess, it's also forced me to up myself and up my game in many other areas because it's very easy for me to. To resort to hard work for things to get done.
[01:02:37] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:02:38] Speaker A: And that can, at times, put me in a space where I'm working harder than I am smarter.
[01:02:43] Speaker B: Yikes. And so that is important self awareness.
[01:02:46] Speaker A: But I do recognize that that is a real gift that I have. I can just work until I drop.
[01:02:51] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:02:51] Speaker A: And I. And I've done it many times, and it's something that, at the end of the day, I feel like, okay, I know that I've got this to go back on, that I'll just keep going. And I'VE also realized that. That it can be a bit of a dangerous superpower at times, too, for me.
[01:03:09] Speaker B: Yeah, I hear that.
[01:03:10] Speaker A: The power.
[01:03:11] Speaker B: And that brings us to our final question, my friend, because this is the Words that Move Me podcast. Can you share with us a quote, a sentiment, a guiding principle, a mantra, a proverb? What are the words that move you?
[01:03:25] Speaker A: Great question.
I want to make sure I get this one right.
This is a Stanley Kubrick quote, actually.
[01:03:32] Speaker B: Do you need to fact check it?
[01:03:34] Speaker A: Let me give it a go first and let's see if I nail it. If you want to communicate something, whether it be an idea or a concept or even an emotion, the least effective way of doing it is directly. It only goes in about an inch.
But if you can get the audience to a point where they have to discover what it is that you're getting at, the thrill of that discovery goes straight through the heart.
[01:04:02] Speaker B: I think you really nailed it.
I mean, I. If you really want to communicate something, even if it's just an emotion or an attitude, let alone an idea, the least effective and least enjoyable way is directly it only goes in about an inch. But if you get people to the point where they have to think, or where they have to think a moment, what it is that you're getting at, and then discover it, the thrill of discovery goes right through the heart.
[01:04:30] Speaker A: That was close. You were really, really, really close. Thank you for fact checking me. I appreciate it. It's a long one. It's a long one. But that quote has been with me for a long time and I. It has been a real guiding light for me in many different rooms, in many situations, when thinking about how to try to bring something to life, helping.
[01:04:48] Speaker B: People to discover it for themselves, if that is not what I'm trying to do here with the podcast, I don't know what is. Friends, thank you, Tony, for being here. Thank you, listener, viewer. Go out into the world. Discover for yourself and keep it exceptionally funky. Oh, and subscribe. Click the bell for notifications. I don't really watch a lot of YouTube, so I don't know where the things are. I used to be really good. Smash the likes, leave a reviewer rating. Subscribe. Click the bell for notifications.
Reach out on Instagram. On social media, actually, all I have is Instagram, so reach out on Instagram and. Yeah, I think that's it. Keep it funky. Bye, yo.
[01:05:28] Speaker A: Thank you so much.
[01:05:29] Speaker B: Right? That's how you podcast. You did so good.
[01:05:33] Speaker A: Thank you. My first go. You're really good at that. You're just you make it so comfortable.
[01:05:38] Speaker B: I set up so fast.
[01:05:39] Speaker A: You make it so comfortable. I didn't even know when we'd started. It was just that we were going.
[01:05:43] Speaker B: Because that was sneaky. This podcast was produced by me with the help of many Big, big love to our Executive assistant and editor, Riley Higgins. Our Communications manager is Fiona Small, with additional support from Ori Vagidares. Our music is by Max Winnie, logo and brand design by Bree Reitz. And if you're digging the podcast, leave a review and rating and please share. Also, if you want to connect with me and the many marvelous members of the Words that Move Me community, visit words that move me.com if you're simply curious to know more about me and the work that I do outside of this podcast, visit thedanawilson.com.
